pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
I agree with the previous two posts, neither of which dispute or touch on the argument that stall is still OP and still should be nerfed.
I think I speak for a good portion of uu players when I say that we should seriously stop suspecting for right now. Me personally, am sick of suspect tests.
In the past 2 or so months we've had 4 suspect tests. Not only is that extremely excessive, but if it was suspect worthy, it should've been done earlier. The choice to suspect Scizor and MAltaria was frankly stupid for the reasoning of "we didn't want to do it earlier so lets squeeze it into the last 5 minutes of the generation". The metagame needs time to develop after a suspect test in order to be considered stable. We dont want a repeat of ORAS OU with the Sableye suspect. Its too late for anymore suspects. Just give up the ghost and let UU enjoy the generation in peace, please.
As far as "nerfing stall", there's nothing you can realm do about it that wont clap the rest of the metagame unless you ban double unaware users, but that's kinda against tiering policy? I don't know, and frankly at this point I could care less. As long as we dont sit through another pointless suspect test.
Heck yeah, I couldn't agree more.
We need to understand that it's too late, we only have three months left and we will not succeed to "fix" the tier. Like Sickist I'm freaking bored of all this suspect test because this does not allow the tier to stabilize at all. I mean, since may we got 5 suspects (Mega-Sableye, Scizor, Mega-Altaria, Mimikyu and Drizzle + Drought) and it's way too much in my opinion at this point of a generation. As I said in my previous post, could we not take advantage of the last moments of 7th gen UU ?
Even if I do agree that Stall is super good, this has been the case for ages and I do not think a suspect test would change something (+ both EviGaro and Hogg explained why this kind of suspect are shaky af and inadequate with the current tiering policy).
C'mon just enjoy the tier during his last moments
You sound like my dad saying that I'm a disappointment.If you think the metagame is unbalanced but don't want to tier anyways...I wish you'd try harder.
Nope I didn't say suspect stall, I said suspect Alomomola or Blissey or Regen. There we go, we don't have an argument, I'm glad we agree.You sound like my dad saying that I'm a disappointment.
Anyways, this would be a different boat if you just wanted to suspect one particular thing, which albeit is still requiring yet ANOTHER boring lengthy process, would at least single out a single issue. However, that isn't the case. You want to suspect...stall?
Thanks for reading this longish post, and no hard feelings to anyone. Have a good day.
I'm freaking bored of all this suspect test because this does not allow the tier to stabilize at all.
Pif et. al responded to this withThe metagame needs time to develop after a suspect test in order to be considered stable.
which is a fair argument.The whole line of "it's too late for suspects or bans" has been used in every suspect since Scizor which was what, 3 months ago? I'm so fuc**** tired of people like the posts above saying give up on tiering. Seriously, I and others begged for Scizor to be suspected for over a year so of course it feels very lame to read post after post saying, we can't ban it because it's too late. Now the same logic applies to stall.
As someone who has never used Blissey ever I have to say I disagree with this. To deal with prim on offense you either need alot of strong pokemon that dont let primarina in, or if you happen to use something like Hydreigon which is an example of something that invites in prim then u have to add tenta, amoongus or empoleon. Balance teams have to have one of those three otherwise prim becomes an issue. And yes I know primarina can use psychic but a healthy metagame shouldnt let you have surefire stops to everything. If you let your opponent get in a slow powerful breaker then yes there should be some repercussions, its only natural. Stall is different, because the playstyle relies on always having switch ins to everything. But say sp def cress for example, can easily eat hydro pumps from Primarina. But it has to waste a turn to recover after, which is more balanced than Blissey just eating any special hit as a snack and throwing out status and Stosses.While banning Blissey would limit stall, it would also come with heavy collateral damage to fatter balance builds, and specs breakers like Primarina would easily get out of hand. This applies even more so to Regenerator - Amoonguss does a good job at keeping many threats in check, and to a lesser extent so does Slowbro. Banning just Blissey or just Regenerator will definitely cause more problems for the tier than it solves. I agree with pif that maybe the best way to deal with stall without affecting the rest of the tier as much is to suspect Alomomola. Another possible way would be to resuspect stallbreakers from UUBLXurkitree anyone?but that of course is a very iffy idea.
Blissey is the main core of Stall. I have never seen a good Stall without Blissey because there is absolutely not a single Pokemon which can do the same than Blissey. You're talking about Audino which is a garbage Pokemon which force you to get rid of Mega-Altaria or Mega-Aggron or things like Umbreon or Cresselia but none of this Pokemon can replace Blissey, not even a little bit. Blissey has Natural Cure, great instant healing recovery thanks to Soft-Boiled (which is a million time better than Cresselia's shitty recovery Moonlight), access to Stealth Rock, Wish or Heal Bell. How can you compare Cresselia to Blissey ? Just because they can handle Pokemon on the special side ? C'mon.. Max SpD Cresselia takes about 40-45% on Hydro Pump from Specs Primarina which force it to recover.. but wait it only has 8 PPs to heal itself. Even Moonblast is troublesome because it deals about 35-40%.Assuming banning Blissey is the death of stall is the definition of theorymonning imo. Stalls with Audino, Umbreon, Cresselia etc as sp def walls havent been looked into at all so whos to say stall would become unviable. There is no doubt stall would become worse, but thats kinda the point.
So, if you really believe that stall is unhealthy in UU, the first step would be to look at individual ‘mons such as Blissey, Alomomola or Quagsire. I’m not sure that I would personally support a ban of any of these, but I wouldn’t veto a suspect test if there was strong community support for one.
Can we get a clear line on this?edit: no more dumb discussions about suspecting blissey. Not going to happen.
Yes, sorry for the confusion.Can we get a clear line on this?
Indeed, without Alomomola to sponge hits from U-turn abusers like Scizor, Stall teams need to use other stratagems which are more iffy in my opinion. You can play Counter Quagsire to punish U-turn but it means your Quagsire is already in front of Scizor. While Quagsire may be effective to deal with Scizor, it doesn't like at all to come again and again on U-turn because this forces it to recover more often. Amoonguss is another user of Regenerator but it doesn't have the same physical Bulk than Alomomola neither Wish+Protect (and sadly Synthesis is only 8 PPs) which means it's not as good to deal with Volt-Turn. While there is a plethora of Pokemon which can be used in Stall teams, there isn't a single one in my opinion which punish U-turn users as hard as Alomomola. However, it's possible to build really effective Stall teams without Alomomola and contrary to Blissey which is in my opinion mandatory in any kind of Stall teams, it's not the case of Alomomola which can be replace by a second Unaware users like Pyukumuku or another fat Pokemon. In my opinion, a ban of Alomomola would be a reasonable nerf for Stall teams because even if it would affect their effectiveness, it would not make them unplayable or non-viable."Stall without Alomomola requires "more skills" in order to be as effective as possible because they're not as good as Stall with Alomomola to handle well played Volt-Turn"