np: XY UU Stage 0 - I Lived

[Petrico94]

Is there a chance a lower ranking will be considered for the ranking? Maybe not 1300 low but

holy shit, big changes

considerations:

-is blissey close to dropping? chansey leaving the metagame will result in a VERY GREATLY MASSIVE wave of broken pokemons (hydreigon, houndoominite, magnezone... a lot).

If it was Chansey holding them all back, they were probably OP anyways.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Is there a chance a lower ranking will be considered for the ranking? Maybe not 1300 low but

I don't think so. You can see the discussion in the Policy Review forum. They looked at stats for other rankings like 1630, but stuff like Donphan, etc. were still OU. So it won't be lowered because if they do those Pokemon that everybody hates will rise be back in OU.

I expect Florges to become the most-used Pokemon in UU now. With all the other rapid spinners dropping, Blastoise faces a little bit more competition, so his usage will probably drop, and with Chansey being gone, Florges will be chosen on even more teams as the special wall, wish-passer and/or cleric.

 

[jamashawalker]

I'd say Doublade was a harder counter than Zapdos

LOL the only problem is you have doublade on your team now

It already is.

I haven't seen much of Hawlucha, but it's one of the only viable Pokemon with over 110 Speed, and Unburden is really good, so I can imagine it being a major threat.

Currently it is NOT S tier because of Sub+ Red card combo was a glitch. Which was more destructive than Sky Attack+Power Herb. Currently its residing in A+ tier

 

[KM]

I haven't seen any discussion about trevenant recently, and I think it's going to be pretty pivotal in the metagame.

Here's the set I've been using - it's very rough, but I've only just made it.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Will-o-Wisp
- Horn Leech

Explanation: Trevenant fit perfectly on my stall team as a pseudo-sweeper and a spinblocker. He is perhaps the best spinblocker currently in UU, and with the loss of common Defog users like Zapdos/Latias and the rise of new spinning toys to play with (Forry/Starmie/Tenta/Donphan) as well as existing spinner like M-Blast and HTop, Trevenant is all the more effective as a spinblocker. Forry, Hitmontop, and Donphan can't touch him bar a predicted toxic. As for the many of the remaining spinners, even if they run an appropriate move to deal super effective damage the result is paltry at best.


0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (31 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 39-46 (10.4 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 194-230 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 114-136 (30.4 - 36.3%) -- 54.1% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Trevenant: 96-114 (25.6 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Tentacruel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 132-156 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 177-211 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO

The two spinners that can deal with Trevenant (at least this set) are Starmie, with Ice Beam, and Mega-Blastoise, with Dark Pulse. However, if you correctly predict and switch in on a Scald/rapid spin from Starmie, the threat of a Horn Leech will be more than enough to send it packing (or, just straight up kill it). The same could be applied to Mega-Blastoise if you ran more SpD, but I personally prefer the Attack.

The combination of Substitute and Sitrus Berry Harvest allows Trevenant to stall out even the most offensive counters if he is given even just a turn of momentum. You can even potentially stall out a Victini if it predicts correctly and locks itself into V-Create, merely by spamming Substitute until its stats are lowered to the point where you can outspeed, leech seed behind a sub, and theoretically continue to sub up provided you get reasonable harvest rolls. (This is obviously an extreme and pretty situational example, but it's just meant to show the power of Trevenant.

Leech Seed offers consistent damage and healing, and makes Trevenant even more annoying to kill than he already is.

I chose Will-o-Wisp because my team has toxic spikes support already. Will-o-Wisp allows me to cripple levitating, steel, or flying type threats, both defensive and offensive. Bulky defensive threats like Aggron, Rhyperior, or Jirachi become less capable of breaking your sub, allowing for more stalls. Moreover, Physical T-T, Hawlucha, Crobat, and other offensive threats won't expect the will-o-wisp and will lose much of their threat to your team as well.

Horn Leech combined with full investment in a attack is a two-edged sword. Not only does it mean your attacks do ridiculous damage for a utility/defensive based set, it also increases the amount of healing you get to an unfathomable amount. As an example-

252+ Atk Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 165-195 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Trevenant works best (somewhat obviously, as he is a spinblocker) with extensive hazard support, which allows him to accumulate more damage and gain momentum more easily. In general, trevenant should be switched into things that can't do all too much to him so that he can start setting up and wreaking havoc on the enemy team (ex. Florges, Mega-Aggron, Forry, Smeargle).

Some things to watch out for: Umbreon can easily OHKO Trevenant with this spread with not much previous damage. Obliterate with caution.

 

[Jaguar360]

LOL the only problem is you have doublade on your team now

I don't see the problem. You've got an amazing typing, extraordinary physical bulk, great power with 110 Attack, Swords Dance and Gyro Ball and perfect coverage with Ghost + Fighting. It could easily switch out to one of its teammates when against something with Will-o-Wisp or a strong special move. The priority on Shadow Sneak is also really good and strong.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

There goes all of my teams RIP Keldeo. Chansey being gone instantly makes every special attacker like 9000% times more viable and removes a huge strain from teambuilding, this was simply the best tier change that could happen. Latias being gone is bad because it checked a lot of threats but it was bound to happen anyway. Definitely looking foward to test starmie as it has absolutely zero competition in the uu tier as nothing can match it in speed, coverage, reliable recovery and access to rapid spin, the closest to that being locked away in ou. Donphan and forretress will be interesting spinnners and can serve as good checks for haxorus and other physical threats.

 

[jamashawalker]

I don't see the problem. You've got an amazing typing, extraordinary physical bulk, great power with 110 Attack, Swords Dance and Gyro Ball and perfect coverage with Ghost + Fighting. It could easily switch out to one of its teammates when against something with Will-o-Wisp or a strong special move. The priority on Shadow Sneak is also really good and strong.

Slow, Typing should be good, but because of the majority things you need to wall carry knock off, 110 base attack with no investment and pretty low base power moves(except for gyro ball in some situations), no leftover recovery nor any form of recovery. Priority shadowsneak is really weak coming from an uninvested ATK EVs. If you do invest in attack then you leave yourself with considerably less bulk. Zapdos can at least provide offense along with defense and can play the game longer thanks to Roost.

 

[Jaguar360]

I've been running Brave with 252 EVs in Attack and it's bulk and power have both been great. You don't really need to invest in anything other than HP defensively unless you're running a Defensive set with Toxic or something IMO (which is inferior to the standard set and probably done a bit better by a few mons). Let's just say it can take an Earthquake uninvested in Defense.

 

[jamashawalker]

I've been running Brave with 252 EVs in Attack and it's bulk and power have both been great. You don't really need to invest in anything other than HP defensively unless you're running a Defensive set with Toxic or something IMO (which is inferior to the standard set and probably done a bit better by a few mons). Let's just say it can take an Earthquake uninvested in Defense.

Take once then done...

On a different note...Klefki may be too much for UU. This is ridiculous!!


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-97157045

Notice throughout this whole match I didnt have to switch out ti'll the end. The hax was stupid but played well together

 

[Aragorn the King]

LOL the only problem is you have doublade on your team now



Currently it is NOT S tier because of Sub+ Red card combo was a glitch. Which was more destructive than Sky Attack+Power Herb. Currently its residing in A+ tier

Check here. It was recently moved back up to S rank. :)

 

[Jaguar360]

Take once then done...r

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 124-148 (38.5 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 186-220 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 180-212 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 140-168 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 212-252 (65.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And I don't even think it ever even tried to take an Earthquake from one of these monsters. Doublade is definitely a worthy spot on a team (especially when paired with Hydreigon for an awesome core).

BTW, these calcs are just for theory. You really shouldn't be staying in on any of these guys unless you're at +2 or +3 Attack or something.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

GG there goes my Hawlucha check + defogger. You will be sorely missed, Zapdos ;_; rip blob too (and now more people will just use florges ._.)

On a side note, we got Cloyster and Salamence, two really dangerous sweepers in the tier. >___>"

 

[jamashawalker]

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 124-148 (38.5 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 186-220 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 180-212 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 140-168 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 212-252 (65.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And I don't even think it ever even tried to take an Earthquake from one of these monsters. Doublade is definitely a worthy spot on a team (especially when paired with Hydreigon for an awesome core).

BTW, these calcs are just for theory. You really shouldn't be staying in on any of these guys unless you're at +2 or +3 Attack or something.

That's really not impressive considering you better do some serious damage back to whatever your checking and without any recovery that's even less impressive. Yes "one and done." You take it once and now you are severely crippled throughout the rest of the match. People said the same thing with chansey calcs but the biggest difference is chansey can recover off the damage while doublade is now just a death fodder. This metagame has some amazing walls and all of them praise themselves on having the best form of recovery against some of the hardest hitting threats, which doublade lacks.
W
To go back to the main point: Yes doublade does counter Hawlucha, but again you'd be running doublade in this metagame. Who is too much of a liability to try to counter a late game sweeper. unless Your doublade is peak condition. Zapdos was a better counter because it can survive throughout the match with leftovers and roost, threatens the thing it needs to counter with an immediate thunderbolt/heatwave, defog to not only help itself but its teammates as well, better SpDef. Oh and if it runs into Knock off it doesnt spell the end of the world for Zapdos.

EDIT: Sorry i suppose i am dissing doublade too much. but currently it is just not reliable to use as counter to Hawlucha as Zapdos was. lol that summarizes what i mean

 

[PokeGyarados]

Cool, Chansey is banned nothing else matters tbh.

 

[silenced]

One other poke that could benefit from the changes is competitive milotic. The reason i say this is quite simply, all rapid spinners that dropped and weren't named starmie really aren't very good at all. So asides from Starmie and Blastoise, there's still going to be defog users, most of which really don't want to take on milotic. I'm thinking Trevenant and Milotic + insert fire type of your choice here would make for a nice FWG core that could captialize on hazard stacking. Fire type forces switches, trevenant blocks MOST rapid spinners and milotic can make defoggers pay the most out of what remains in UU.

 

[Mudkip727]

On a side note, we got Cloyster and Salamence, two really dangerous sweepers in the tier. >___>"

Thankfully, they are stopped by one of the more common cores (mega aggron-florges). And btw, anyone have ideas to PLEASE counter klefki?!? And What are the new counters/checks for the newcomers in UU, anyone help?

 

[kokoloko]

Xatu.

 

[Albacore]

Thankfully, they are stopped by one of the more common cores (mega aggron-florges). And btw, anyone have ideas to PLEASE counter klefki?!?

Luck, basically. Scarfed Darmanitan can do incredible damage if it doesn't hit itself in its confusion. Houndoom dos decently enough. Absol can deal with it if it has Fire Blast. I guess Nidoking can do decently enough. Really, most Fire-types can deal with it as long as they don't hit themselves in their confusion.

 

[SaberSeven]

With Latias and Zapdos gone, Defog really did take a hit. I saw Salamence drop and thought, "Hey, why not make a bulky Mence with Defog to help out the team?" This is the idea I got with a little bit of help with CoolStoryBrobat (had a little chat with him that night).

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Spd / 20 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog

The 240 speed EVs allow it to outspeed non-scarf Hydreigon and smack it with a Dragon Claw. The 248 HP gives it the maximum amount of HP to take 4 SR switch ins. The rest is invested in attack, but investing the other 20 EVs in Defense wouldn't hurt either.

EDIT: Random Calcs:
-1 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 108-127 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- 64.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 180-214 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 200-236 (50.8 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Watch out for Rock Slide)
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 147-173 (37.4 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 170-202 (43.2 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[kokoloko]

i thought about doing that too, but the set i ended up theorymonning was something along these lines:

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate:
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Defog
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

basically it would play as a defensive mon early game giving you defog support and then it would be able to set up on shit like darmanitan or like idk other weak physical attackers late-game to go for a sweep.

it honestly doesn't appeal to me at all, but we're kind of desperate for defoggers atm lol

 

[Albacore]

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Spd / 20 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog

Wouldn't Flygon be a better offensive Defogger with that set? I may have weaker defenses and offenses, but its speed is the same, it gets STAB on Earthquake, and it takes almost no damage from entry hazards, unlike Salamence which gets destroyed by Stealth Rock. Although the lack of Intimidate really limits Flygon's ability to switch in.

 

[viol and bass]

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Spd / 20 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog

If you're gonna run 240 speed EVs, just bump it up to 252. Absolutely worth it to speed tie other Mence and you're only losing 12 EVs from Attack or whatever. Anyway, I had the same idea, actually, but decided to slap Wish on the set because I was disappointed with Florges' tiny wishes. I'm running like 176 speed. It's quite bulky with Intimidate, and very effective at getting Wishes off and Defogging. Obviously monoattacking Mence is gonna have issues with shit like Florges, which is why I paired it with Curselax which turns Florges into setup fodder, takes infinite Ice-type attacks for Mence (can even take close combats after a curse or two), and appreciates the healing from Wish as well as removal of hazards while Mence can deal with Fighters quite well. Pretty effective combo.

Edit: Also WishMence deals with the complaint of the poster above by acting as a defensive defogger rather than an offensive one, a role for which Flygon gives it no competition whatsoever.

 

[Albacore]

If you're gonna run 240 speed EVs, just bump it up to 252. Absolutely worth it to speed tie other Mence and you're only losing 12 EVs from Attack or whatever. Anyway, I had the same idea, actually, but decided to slap Wish on the set because I was disappointed with Florges' tiny wishes. I'm running like 176 speed. It's quite bulky with Intimidate, and very effective at getting Wishes off and Defogging. Obviously monoattacking Mence is gonna have issues with shit like Florges, which is why I paired it with Curselax which turns Florges into setup fodder, takes infinite Ice-type attacks for Mence (can even take close combats after a curse or two), and appreciates the healing from Wish as well as removal of hazards while Mence can deal with Fighters quite well. Pretty effective combo.

Edit: Also WishMence deals with the complaint of the poster above by acting as a defensive defogger rather than an offensive one, a role for which Flygon gives it no competition whatsoever.

Very true. Salamence actually seems like a surprisingly good wish passer and defogger in UU. And to think that Defog WishMence was laughed at and deemed unviable and outclassed by Lat@s a while ago. Of course, if it gets the boot from UU (which seems likely), then we'll have to settle for Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Donphan.

 

[Mudkip727]

I actually think that the new drops balanced out UU pretty well, (exept klefki tho). Stall was very dominent before the drops came, And now we got more spinners and more hazard setters. Not to mention that spin-blocking will be more easy without those pesky defoggers. So stall has now better tools to play with and better enemies to face.

Out of all the pokemon dropped, on my opnion, cloyster is the most threatening, shell smash allows it 2HKOs a lot of things in the tier, and it is like a mini-mega-heracross(wierd name, huh).

 

[EonX]

I honestly would think that EVing Salamence in Special Defense would do more for it since Intimidate is already softening physical attacks. Anyhow, I've been giving some thought to a bulky DD set as I used to run one in DPP before Mence was banned. IIRC, it looked a little like this: (with updates to XY UU standards)

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 236 SDef / 24 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Defog / Earthquake

With Special Defense EVs, Mence can live random weak Ice Beams and Moonblasts from Vaporeon, Slowbro, and Florges to slowly setup. Intimidate nerfs physical attackers to allow for easier set up. Anyway, p. much the same set as the one koko posted a last page, but with the option of EQ to actually do something with Florges, M-Aggron, and the like.