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Official NBA 2011-12 Season Thread
- Thread starter -RatCheesy
- Start date
Always thinking of you CK, our posts will always be together.
Are you fudging serious? They should play in the street? Thats awesome! lol Dr. Dre and some Tupac would make the games legit.<----- Yeh i'm trying to be hip and cool.
If Lakers can't get to the defensive level of Miami last year, there's no way Lakers can take over Thunder in a series.. I mean, again, especially Thunder has ways to defend them, on paper at least.
What makes you think they couldn't?
And assuming that they can't (which I find a huge stretch; it's Dwight Howard), that still wouldn't mean they couldn't beat the Thunder.
The Lakers' offense could potentially be as lethal as the Thunder's.
Vein, look how many of the playoff losses vs you guys were close matches. You honestly don't think that Dwight Howard and Nash over Sessions and Bynum won't be a 5 point improvement (offensively + defensively combined). You're making it sound as if we lost to you by 40 every game and that we need super elite defense just to even have a chance.
Stall, and what makes you think otherwise in the first place?
DR, let's assume they're equal offensively. Just thinking about match-ups defensively, I think Thunder have the edge. About the article, the funnel defense used by Mavs was 2 years ago. I don't think Thunder will fall to that again this year.
DR, let's assume they're equal offensively. Just thinking about match-ups defensively, I think Thunder have the edge. About the article, the funnel defense used by Mavs was 2 years ago. I don't think Thunder will fall to that again this year.
No they'll just settle for a ton of midrange jumpers, which happens to be the most inefficient shot in the game. KD can only score so much (he will get his regardless) but with Howard patrolling the paint, Westbrook and Harden won't be getting those easy driving lanes to the hoop. I'm sure they can win a game or two by getting hot and shooting lights out, but it's now way to win a seven game series.
I'm curious to hear why you think the Thunder lost to the Heat.
Main reason of course is that LeBron is a complete basketball player, something Durant cannot match as of that series.
Second, the complete irrelevance of Harden. For the Thunder to win a series, they need Harden as they have no other scoring option after him. Harden was irrelevant in the series not because of series off nights, but because of the defense that Miami throw at him (LeBron, Wade, Battier and even Chalmers) - a type of defense he never met in the first 3 rounds. Now, tell me somebody from this LA team who can give him fits. Harden loses his offense not because of presence a big man (he has this Manu-like ability to play around and bait bigs), but because of straight up perimeter defense. Let's see the Howard effect though.
Third, of course, those open 3s by Battier, Chalmers etc. made by LeBron. They are tone setters. Now add Allen and Lewis into the mix.
Other are just minor reasons (inconsistent Ibaka, poor coaching, Perkins)
Now, I also wonder why you think the Thunder lost to Heat...
I'll give you Wade and LeBron, but Battier and Chalmers are mostly spot-up shooters.
Seems like the result here is going to be on how much Howard affects the defense of those three guys. Hm. I wonder if there's any stats around. I'll look later.
OKC couldn't match the Heat's small line-up. They put three point shooters on Ibaka and he couldn't take advantage of it. Ibaka and Perkins being no shows offensively definitely played a part.
Durant couldn't seem to guard anybody. Harden disappeared for whatever reason you want to say; whether it's actually having to play defense, or being defended well.
Other than that, I just feel like the Thunder played a team that plays similar to them but have more talent.
About Harden, I'm talking about guys who defend him, but of course, guarding LeBron and Wade also affected his game.
And I agree with you, Thunder and Heat are very similar with Heat getting the edge in utilizing that playstyle (with bunch of 3 pointers to boot). That's the reason why Heat is my team to beat. Gotta take note though that the Thunder match-up better vs the Lakers than Heat just because they have Perkins/Ibaka inside. Heat has just no inside defense..
And I agree with you, Thunder and Heat are very similar with Heat getting the edge in utilizing that playstyle (with bunch of 3 pointers to boot). That's the reason why Heat is my team to beat. Gotta take note though that the Thunder match-up better vs the Lakers than Heat just because they have Perkins/Ibaka inside. Heat has just no inside defense..
DerrickRose, I respect your posts. I don't post here very often, but I keep tabs on this thread and you always have very good, insightful posts but it seems to me you're about one post from crowning LA already and it's because of Dwight Howard. We get it, he's the best center in the league and an incredible defensive player. That's not an auto-win, nor does it address the bigger flaws of Los Angeles.
Those flaws being, pick and roll defense on the point guard's half. I don't care how athletic Dwight Howard is, he's not gonna be able to perfectly defend a pick and roll all night and take all the pressure of Nash. A top-level point guard will give this team fits, just like they always do. But you know, only LAC, SAS and OKC have those in the West, so no problem there....wait...
Then you have the issue of that bench. Antawn Jamison is a good player, offensively. He's never been known for his defense and I wouldn't exactly be afraid of him lighting OKC up off the bench. Jodie Meeks is a solid player, nothing exceptional about him though. Do they even have anyone else on the bench?
Then you have the obvious perimeter matchup problems since, as we know, Nash can't guard a 3-legged stool, Kobe is still a good on-ball defender, however he isn't an elite defender anymore and Artest is in the same boat yet he's lost even more steps then Kobe has on the perimeter. Gasol is pudding.
But you have Dwight Howard!!!! He'll block every shot in the paint all season long!
Except when OKC's scorers happen to be among the best midrange shooters in the league. Yes, the midrange shot is statistically the worst shot in the game however Durant and Westbrook are probably the league's top two midrange shooters. Didn't Russ shoot something like 50+% from 14-19 feet, or somewhere in that range, last year? That's not what I would call inefficient.
They're such great scorers that they don't need to go all the way to the bucket to get consistent quality looks.
Maybe I've overlooked it, but has nobody mentioned the fact that Dwight Howard is prone to foul trouble and just as an aside, bitches about calls more than probably anyone in the league besides Kobe. (LeBron and Wade are up there too, to be fair, but Kobe cries more than any player in recent memory.)
Speaking of Kobe, there goes your offensive efficiency. Let's see how tough that LA halfcourt defense is when it can never get set up because teams are constantly breaking on slow LA because of Kobe's horrendous shot selection.
LA's gonna be very, very good. They're gonna steamroll through most of the season, pick up 61+ wins, but they aren't getting by OKC and wouldn't get by Miami should it come to that since, ya know, they are the best team in the league that just got better.
Anyway, I've had enough Lakers talk. I'm actually really excited to watch Minnesota play this year. I haven't seen extended play from him, but I like Alexey Shved's game. Andrei Kirilenko is still an NBA-level talent. Kevin Love is Kevin Love. Brandon Roy, should he be back to his 09-10 self, can threaten to be a top 10 scorer. I'm not sure on the status of Ricky Rubio at this point, but he can definitely play ball. And Michael Beasley's departure should allow for Derrick Williams to blossom into potentially a very, very good player.
Now, I don't think Minny will be serious contenders or anything, I just want to watch them play and hope they succeed.
Those flaws being, pick and roll defense on the point guard's half. I don't care how athletic Dwight Howard is, he's not gonna be able to perfectly defend a pick and roll all night and take all the pressure of Nash. A top-level point guard will give this team fits, just like they always do. But you know, only LAC, SAS and OKC have those in the West, so no problem there....wait...
Then you have the issue of that bench. Antawn Jamison is a good player, offensively. He's never been known for his defense and I wouldn't exactly be afraid of him lighting OKC up off the bench. Jodie Meeks is a solid player, nothing exceptional about him though. Do they even have anyone else on the bench?
Then you have the obvious perimeter matchup problems since, as we know, Nash can't guard a 3-legged stool, Kobe is still a good on-ball defender, however he isn't an elite defender anymore and Artest is in the same boat yet he's lost even more steps then Kobe has on the perimeter. Gasol is pudding.
But you have Dwight Howard!!!! He'll block every shot in the paint all season long!
Except when OKC's scorers happen to be among the best midrange shooters in the league. Yes, the midrange shot is statistically the worst shot in the game however Durant and Westbrook are probably the league's top two midrange shooters. Didn't Russ shoot something like 50+% from 14-19 feet, or somewhere in that range, last year? That's not what I would call inefficient.
They're such great scorers that they don't need to go all the way to the bucket to get consistent quality looks.
Maybe I've overlooked it, but has nobody mentioned the fact that Dwight Howard is prone to foul trouble and just as an aside, bitches about calls more than probably anyone in the league besides Kobe. (LeBron and Wade are up there too, to be fair, but Kobe cries more than any player in recent memory.)
Speaking of Kobe, there goes your offensive efficiency. Let's see how tough that LA halfcourt defense is when it can never get set up because teams are constantly breaking on slow LA because of Kobe's horrendous shot selection.
LA's gonna be very, very good. They're gonna steamroll through most of the season, pick up 61+ wins, but they aren't getting by OKC and wouldn't get by Miami should it come to that since, ya know, they are the best team in the league that just got better.
Anyway, I've had enough Lakers talk. I'm actually really excited to watch Minnesota play this year. I haven't seen extended play from him, but I like Alexey Shved's game. Andrei Kirilenko is still an NBA-level talent. Kevin Love is Kevin Love. Brandon Roy, should he be back to his 09-10 self, can threaten to be a top 10 scorer. I'm not sure on the status of Ricky Rubio at this point, but he can definitely play ball. And Michael Beasley's departure should allow for Derrick Williams to blossom into potentially a very, very good player.
Now, I don't think Minny will be serious contenders or anything, I just want to watch them play and hope they succeed.
I agree. Minnesota just got sneaky good, and I'd be surprised if they didn't land a 7-8 seed. I seriuosly doubt Roy is anywhere his old self (even germany can't regrow his knees entirely), but if they can get decent bench production out of him, they'll be tough. Especially with a rejuvinated Kirelinko as a wing stopper. Depends how soon they can get Rubio back though, because he really is the key to their offense.
I actually still have doubts on them but hey, everybody has different reasons to succeed and fail.
SAS has no size to contend with LA even if they have an all-star guard. I feel it's a wash on the perimeter for the most part.
Same thing for LAC; although I wouldn't say it's a lack of size but rather an experienced frontline.
Already admitted that OKC is debatable.
In no way did I automatically crown them. I simply said they were contenders.
Kobe and Ron Artest's defense also doesn't need to be all-star level in order for LA to win a championship; of course, for OKC, that's different. That's the only exception I'll concede thus far.
However, do note that they did not beat LA by mid-range shots alone. They also got their fair share of easy buckets.
For a person that told me not to crown them, you're doing something similar by giving them a pretty strict ceiling.
There were only 6 contenders last year by (Spurs, Thunder, Heat, Bulls, Lakers, Celtics). The first 4 were tier A and the last two were tier B. The only team that fell OFF the contender list over the last quarter of the season? The Magic! When Dwight Howard went down! Howard was basically an entire lower end contender by himself. The Lakers were already contending last season despite playing like dog shit on the road and despite Bryant's poor shooting and despite not having a point guard and despite having a coaching downgrade! If they avoid injury troubles the going assumption should just absolutely be Heat #1 Lakers #2 Thunder #3. They have too much experience, rip up their conference too much, and Dwight Howard and a normal season should improve their road woes.
Even if none of that is convincing, just remember that having the best or one of the best centers has swung a lot of championships in this league, and the Lakers picked up the best. We all get it, but there is nothing wrong with putting the Lakers #1. This is not the Eagles crowning themselves, the Lakers have the apparently most special team in the league at this point.
(Only teams who exceed 63% in conference wins have ever been serious contenders in something like the last 30 years, except one year of the Rockets)
Even if none of that is convincing, just remember that having the best or one of the best centers has swung a lot of championships in this league, and the Lakers picked up the best. We all get it, but there is nothing wrong with putting the Lakers #1. This is not the Eagles crowning themselves, the Lakers have the apparently most special team in the league at this point.
(Only teams who exceed 63% in conference wins have ever been serious contenders in something like the last 30 years, except one year of the Rockets)
Trying to please me, i see? Well it worked. I agree with everything in that post. Listen to CK guys, unlike football, basketball is a sport about domination and early season favorites are usually the most likely to win it all.
(Thank Tebus i joined the Lakers wagon, the hype is already insane.)
Hey vein, check out this discussion between the Lakers and Thunder blogmasters. It covers several points we've been arguing about and gives some good insight. Take a stab at it.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...on-welcome-to-loud-city-analyzes-the-new-look
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...on-welcome-to-loud-city-analyzes-the-new-look
I think the biggest winner in the Dwight Howard-Lakers situation has to be Kendrick Perkins. He just guaranteed himself a fat contract on the Thunder considering how he is the only person on that team that can stop Howard, at least if his agent is halfway decent.
Has there ever been a player as valuable to a team, without putting up good stats, as Kendrick Perkins? I'll take a decent answer from anyone, but I'm especially curious about what captkirby has to say since his sports knowledge is only numbers.
Has there ever been a player as valuable to a team, without putting up good stats, as Kendrick Perkins? I'll take a decent answer from anyone, but I'm especially curious about what captkirby has to say since his sports knowledge is only numbers.
Derek Fisher?
BOOM!
Don't sell his incredible Googling abilities short. Where does he find the time? Incredible if you ask me. Worth of admiration.
As to your question, can't really answer it since that stuff requires you to actually watch the games. So agree with above, D Fisher?