Old school viability

[Unknown Warrior]

So this was the team I used August 2007 not long after the release of DP. I wanna know how viable it still is and where to upgrade, tweak or change accordingly.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Impish / Torrent
EVs: 240 HP, 56 Att, 212 Def
- Roar
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hammer Arm

My main defensive tank and lead. Roar to pseudo-haze all who like to set up or as use for scouting purposes. Earthquake as its main STAB move and response to all fire, steel and rock types. Hammer Arm and Stone Edge were mainly to provide more type coverage that my team was otherwise lacking (Hammer Arm especially for Tyranitars whom like to mess up Rain Dance).

Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid / Natural Cure
EVs: 172 HP, 120 SpA, 216 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot

My spinner. Not much to add to it. Recover to heal off whatever HP it lost. Thunderbolt was a no-brainer and possible surprise hit on Bulky waters on the switch. Grass Knot comes out last and as a major surprise because everyone expected Surf. Thus Swampert and a few others were in for a major shock when they got hit by this instead.

Not quite sure why I gave it the EVs it has back then. Probably to outlive something that was commonly used back then. I simply don't remember it anymore.

Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Sassy / Levitate
EVs: 252 HP, 92 Att, 108 Def, 56 SpD {0 Spe UV}
- Rain Dance
- Hypnosis
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

My setter-up. Switch it in on something it resists, Hypnosis on their switch (this was when the move still had 70% probability). Stealth Rock as the next move to get entry hazards going. Followed by a Damp Rock-supported Rain Dance for my Kingdra and finally going boom to allow it to enter safely.

EVs invested are obviously to give it some bulk.

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA, 136 Spe, 120 Att
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- HP Electric
- Waterfall

The main sweeper. I absolutely had to have Kingdra in my team as it's my favourite 'mon (who was UU at the time). The invested Speed EVs were to ensure nothing would outspeed it in the rain, except for a +1 Ninjask. Waterfall was to kill Calm Blissey, as Bold 0 SpD were 2HKO'd by Hydro in the rain (if I recall). Ice Beam was to take care of Garchomp, Salamence and all other OU dragons that dared switch in.

Hydro Pump, coming off 120 base power being both supported by STAB and Rain Dance boosted it to an incredible 270 Base Power. It coming off of a respectable 316 Special Attack along with Life Orb (~347 SpA) meant pain. In fact, it OHKO'd everything that didn't absolutely resist it (except Blissey). Those being Kingdra, Lanturn, Quagsire and Ludicolo. All UU Pokémon that weren't common in standard OU battles back then.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold / Pressure
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpA
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Defensive Resttalker with the ubiquitous Leftovers. Surf and Ice Beam to grant it some STAB and type coverage respectively. Taking physical hits like a champ and resting it off afterwards.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold / Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpD
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled

The standard Special attack sponge. Rain Dance in case Bronzong messed up, TTar came in or 8 turns passed. Thunder with Rain and Serene Grace meant a 60% Paralyzation chance, which meant a major surprise (and still surprises, I think) to whomever assumed the Blissey would be your standard Seismic Toss/Ice Beam Natural Cure variant. Aromatherapy in case someone on my team got hit my a status effect and I don't think I need to explain Softboiled.

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Now I know what can be done to improve this way old Diamond team.

 

[Unknown Warrior]

I can agree with you on Blissey, Swampert, Starmie and Bronzong.

I just have some troubles with the suggestion on replacing Suicune with Gyarados. Mainly so because Suicune was often second to Kingdra on the sweeping. Suicune also has been known to take a super effective Thunderpunch or similar without losing half its HP. Something Gyarados can't boast. Likewise, the effect of Intimidate can be simply undone by a switch, which Suicune doesn't have trouble with.

Kingdra likewise has a nice niche IMO for HP Electric. It happened countless times that Gyarados or Empoleon came in on the switch, cocky enough to think they have me in check. Switching Ice Beam I can somewhat understand as there are not as much Dragon or Grass threats anymore. But I really don't like Draco Meteor, mainly because of its -2 stages of SpA. Bronzong gives Kingdra 8 turns to work with, and it has to make do with that. I don't think it can afford halved Special Attack after 2 turns (which is the time I assume that anyone with a Kingdra counter would want to start using it, mostly other Dragons, making me forced to use it).

Any second opinions from other raters?

Also, now that Kingdra is OU. What do I do against other Kingdra (because I never faced one before prior). Do I need to run 252 Spe with a + nature to outspeed opposing SS Kingdra?

 

[jc104]

OK you requested a rate in #ratemyteam (there's a first time for everything).

As I mentioned in the channel, you need to make a decision really. Rain is something of an all-or-nothing playstyle. A rain offense team can work well and there is a guide located here as to how to build one. They are rather formulaic. I would suggest 3 swift swim sweepers: Kingdra, Ludicolo and Kabutops or Qwilfish. You can also run 4 sweepers, but then you need to put Rain Dance on a couple of them to make up for a lack of supporters. Rain supporters, who should form the rest of the team and carry damp rock should take advantage of rain in some way (Blissey is a poor example). Good ones include Bronzong, Jirachi, Scizor (who benefit from reduced fire weakness), Rotom-W, Jolteon, Zapdos (Powerful Thunder) and some Water-types like Swampert, but wath out for stacked weaknesses. A rain lead like Azelf who sets up SR is also recommended.

Otherwise, there is another route altogether, which is reducing the emphasis on rain. Rain dance kingdra is an acceptable stand-alone sweeper, and it is OK for the rest of your team to take advantage in some way, but Rain Dance and Damp Rock should not be present on any other pokemon. You also should not have too many water-types, as the weaknesses to common types stack rather quickly.

The standard Swampert lead should always run Stealth Rock. There is little reason to use it otherwise. You want Roar/SR/EQ/Ice beam ideally with a relaxed nature, though Ice punch with Impish is acceptable.

That should be enough to be getting on with!

Good luck.