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I would refrain from mentioning Ambipom at all. It may be RU by usage, but that doesn't discount the fact that it's awful. It shouldn't be mentioned at all because it's not only a horrible Pokemon, but the fact of the matter is that we don't want to encourage anyone into using it.
ok, so this dude was wrong. lets tell him WHY instead of just shitting on him. GOthee the reason ambipom shouldnt be added is that it is beaten by many of the tiers staples and multiple other mons such as doublade, rhyperior, the list goes on and on. Ambipom is simply too easily countered in the current ru metagame and its job as a fast normal type attacker is done much better by cinccino.
I think considering this thread is intended for new players adding a section that specifically points out Pokemon not to use would be helpful. Maybe not nessesary but if we want to cut out Ambipom and friends from RU you might as well add a note in a place newbies are likely to look.
I think considering this thread is intended for new players adding a section that specifically points out Pokemon not to use would be helpful. Maybe not nessesary but if we want to cut out Ambipom and friends from RU you might as well add a note in a place newbies are likely to look.
Make a new tier, call it broken, and add Druddigon to it
Also:
add magneton to trappers gastrodon to stealth rock users coulda sworn it did >.>
Maybe a cleric / wish section with wish and heal bell stuff in there
Edit @ below: choice Scarf Magneton isn't the most powerful and requires prior damage but it is still pretty decent for trapping certain things like durant. Also you can run Magnet rise for Steelix and Escavalier :^)
Lol
Idk about adding magneton to trappers because the majority of steel types have a really good matchup against it, particularly steelix and Escavalier.
Sure.
Yeah definitely don't add magneton to trappers, it's not viable as a trapper imo, but that could be a ballsy claim cuz I never really used or seen it, it's just that Analytic is what made it viable in the first place.
Edit: I don't think Gligar, Togetic, Combusken, etc should be under Boosting Sweepers, as they don't really sweep on their own, at the same time a "baton pass" section would be pretty small so idk
kinda iffy on gligar under sr setters but that's just me
Updated everything.
iffy on gligar as a stealth rocker, but it might as well stay - if anyone has objections let me know.
I can see your point about the baton passers section, but I think it would be too small.
Do you guys think that torterra is relevant / viable enough to have a place in the boosting sweepers section? I kinda just put it there for the heck of it, but it barely gets any use so idk.
edit: @ below not sure on CM coba / viri, they're just meh in this meta. Same goes for vivi and lilligant, its tough to justify them.
Also, thanks to Gorex for some more suggestions on PS.
Add shiftry to SD sweepers and possibly virizion to CM but not positive on that one as i havent tried cm viriz enough in this meta
Edit: idk how i missed shiftry disregard that part
Double Edit: i saw quiver dance is blank and although im not positive on their effectiveness in the current meta lilligant and vivillon are the most viable quover dancers i can think of
I feel that there should be two sections added to the compendium, "Mega Sceptile + Dragalge checks" and "Pangoro Checks", mainly becuz Dragalge and Pangoro are two really good wallbreakers that are commonly seen nowadays due to the buff(s) that these two mons got with the arrival of ORAS. Mega Sceptile is put together with Dragalge mainly because they have a lot of common checks. credits to atomicllamas of helping me think of adding megatile with alge, and EonX for coming up with the idea, I stole his idea, I asked him if he was OK with me posting this and he was fine with it
It's certainly an option, but I find it generally preferable to have a different SR user. Gligar needs its first three slots for Roost, Earthquake, and Defog.
And its last slot is generally better used with Knock Off, Toxic, or U-turn.
Remove eelektross from fire-type checks, it barely checks the fire types if at all
I am not convinced Spiritomb should be listed under Psychic-types checks; the standard wow/foul play/sucker/pursuit is set up fodder for CM Reuniclus and it needs Taunt to check that. Either mention that or remove it. Same goes to Skuntank because without Taunt and/or Punishment it won't be checking Reuniclus any time soon, or Cresselia for that matter (for both tomb and skunk)
Maybe add a new category for clerics and/or Wish passers?
i think you should write notes under each section also, like what I mentioned about spiritomb and skunk.
The "Fire-type checks" category should add in its name/be changed to "Flying-type checks" imo. I mean don't make me wrong, flying-type stuff is way more spammed on ladder and used on teams than fire-type is in the current metagame. That said, the two hugest fire-type mons in the tier just literrally sit over more than half of the checks listed here. I'm thinking right now about Emboar and Delphox that do a shitton damage to a consistent number of bulky Water/Rock-types thanks to their access to high BP Electrik, Fighting and Grass-type moves, such as Reckless-boosted Wild Charge (soon), two strong BP Fighting STABs for the former and Grass Knot for the latter that do some cleans OHKO/2HKOs on SpD Rhyperior, SpD Gastrodon and SpD Regirock. Kabutops can't even take a hit from it, Assault Vest or not, while not being able to OHKO with Aqua Jet. Fire Blast from LO fox has still great chances to 2HKO AV Eelektross while Psyshock is a guaranteed one. Lanturn and Carbink are the only "exceptions", but those two aren't even RU, they need a lot of support and they're easily beaten/aweakened by Dugtrio. Also they still both won't enjoy taking a Superpower from LO Emboar. So yeah, all those checks ain't really used for Fire-type threats in general, but mostly for angry birds, aka Moltres, Mega-Pidgeot and Acrokiller. They can even be used on more defensive teams to not being walled/stalled by Toxic Defensive Golbat (which is awesome btw).
Emboar :
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 247-291 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 354-419 (90 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 247-291 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 395-465 (98 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 421-499 (138 - 163.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 294-347 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 265-315 (72.8 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 269-317 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Flare Blitz does around 45% lol)
252 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 134-159 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 160-190 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 352-417 (94.1 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Delphox :
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 480-565 (110.5 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 260-307 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (cant even ohko back with stab)
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 224-265 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kabutops: 281-333 (90.6 - 107.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 221-263 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowking: 190-226 (48.3 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 172-203 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 172-203 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Delphox is, even with houndoom around, still a great offensive threat, and ppl shouldn't stop playing the powerful attacker/wallbreaker it is. Lot of teams has no fucking answers to this right now, as usual Rhyperior/EscAV/Mola cores are completely smacked by the Offensive Calm Mind set.
Also i'd definitely support to add Archeops in this category, i used this mon in many teams, and this is actually damn awesome, well it hasn't a great bulk, but its high speed allows it mainly to don't be brainfucked by U-Turn bird+Shiftry offensive cores, as it forces him to use Sucker Punch if it doesnt want to catch a U-Turn or a powerful stab from Archeops, which usually mean a free switch out to some stuff like Pangoro. Also it has access to a reliable recovery move, Roost, which increases a lot its staying power, the think other bulky Rock-types always lacked, what always oblige people to pair them with Alomomola, which is a very waste slot imo.
It's a great offensive partner with Mega-Scpetile though.
Archeops (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SpD / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Roost
- Stone Edge/Head Smash
EV spread allows it to live two Hurricanes from Mega-Pidgeot after rocks and leftovers recovery.
Remaining speed lets it in tie with max speed Timid Delphox.
Barbacle is worth noting as a Shell Smash setup sweeper since it is physically inclined and has a much different coverage range from Huntail (Earthquake and Cross Chop; at times I use Poison Jab for Aromatisse).
Hitmontop also has Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, and Bullet Punch for priority (although I pretty much only use Sucker Punch here)
Barbacle is worth noting as a Shell Smash setup sweeper since it is physically inclined and has a much different coverage range from Huntail (Earthquake and Cross Chop; at times I use Poison Jab for Aromatisse).
Hitmontop also has Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, and Bullet Punch for priority (although I pretty much only use Sucker Punch here)
The difference between the two is that Huntail actually has Baton Pass and can pass off its boosts while Barbaracle has innacurracte moves and can't sweep / setup to well. Baton Pass is the only reason Huntail is there.
