If they thought he'd die from AIDS, why did
't they just not give him medication?
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pantheon of pedophiles
- Thread starter Avatar Korra
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Umbreon Dan I'm willing to accept rehabilitation is an option in a vast majority of cases, but here it's simply too late. He was let out of prison 8 years ago because they predicted he would be dead by now. Rehabilitation is not a short process and as inhumane as it might sound, really isn't worth it in this case.
evention are what we need to be concentrating on, not punishment.
This needs to be restated as much as it can be. The justice system is far too focused on punishing people for what they've done instead of punishing people to protect from future crimes. (Which in my opinion is stretching the definition of punishment.) Protection and pr
I'm pretty sure AIDS-rape is some form
of bio-terrorism. And that's not cool with me. Even if I'm not sure about the death penalty, there are some people that need to get locked up forever because there is nothing in the world that can fix them. Even his own daughter said he should have stayed in prison.
I just want to point out how fucking awful this thread is, as it is overflowing with people who obviously have no education in this area and have no idea what this man's thought processes are/were like.
It's really easy to cast another human aside when you have no idea what he's going through. Saying things like "bullet in the brain" and shit like that is the classic lazy American response to a problem people
don't want to take the time to face and solve properly. Not every "child-diddler" is a disturbed recidivist who is useless to society forever.
It's really easy to cast another human aside when you have no idea what he's going through. Saying things like "bullet in the brain" and shit like that is the classic lazy American response to a problem people
To me it's more a question of are they useless to society for long enough that they arent worth the effort of keeping around. I am perfectly comfortable with the death penalty from the moral perspective.
Though, in practice I am opposed to it because my understanding is that life imprisonment is actually cheaper than the appeals process on death row, though I havent really looked deeply into the issue.
In this case, it seems like this is just a tragic set of circumstances. I dont think you can criticise the decision to go with the original penalty, when in the 90s aids really was seen as a death penalty. Perhaps there should have been some stronger mechanism to put him back in jail after his reoffending, but that will always be a double-edged sword.
My general feeling is that I dont like being more restrictive on j
udges. I think in society there are times when you need to trust and empower people to do their jobs. Though with some kind of check to make sure people dont abuse that trust. Give judges a greater range of tools for sentencing and in the general case, I think you will get better outcomes. Though, of course there will be mistakes, and human psychology and the very nature of this scenario is that people only notice the mistakes, and never notice the benefits, so these sorts of ideas never lasts for long. It's a pity..
Though, in practice I am opposed to it because my understanding is that life imprisonment is actually cheaper than the appeals process on death row, though I havent really looked deeply into the issue.
In this case, it seems like this is just a tragic set of circumstances. I dont think you can criticise the decision to go with the original penalty, when in the 90s aids really was seen as a death penalty. Perhaps there should have been some stronger mechanism to put him back in jail after his reoffending, but that will always be a double-edged sword.
My general feeling is that I dont like being more restrictive on j
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
My uncle is a registered sex offender because his morbidly obese, former stepdaughter accused him of inappropriate contact years after the fact. The only evidence submitted at the trial was her testimony alone, versus his testimony alone. No DNA, no fingerprints, no video footage, no confession, no witnesses. The jury sided with her and he didn't have enough money to pay the his court appointed lawyer to appeal. I have no doubt that he is innocent. Regardless, he is a convicted child molester and a registered sex offender now. That's how easy it is to become a convicted child molester.
Its really easy to let your emotions talk about putting a bullet in a convicted child molester's brain. If my daughter said she was defiled by some man I'd feel the same way, and I'm 100% in favor of the death penal
ty in general. But you've got to realize that these are people and there may be unique circumstances involved. Maybe this guy really wasn't guilty. Maybe that guy was guilty, but he really can be rehabilitated. Maybe that guy was guilty and he really can't be rehabilitated.
Our politicians really like to beef up child molestation and sex offender laws and penalties. Who would dare be the politician to vote in favor of sex offenders? You want to increase the penalty for piddling kiddies? Sure! Politician A supports that measure! Make sure to put that on the pamphlet! I think we sometimes forget how quick and easy it is to sway a jury with no physical evidence whatsoever, and how unique people can be, and how some people can change regardless of how horrible their crime is.
Its really easy to let your emotions talk about putting a bullet in a convicted child molester's brain. If my daughter said she was defiled by some man I'd feel the same way, and I'm 100% in favor of the death penal
Our politicians really like to beef up child molestation and sex offender laws and penalties. Who would dare be the politician to vote in favor of sex offenders? You want to increase the penalty for piddling kiddies? Sure! Politician A supports that measure! Make sure to put that on the pamphlet! I think we sometimes forget how quick and easy it is to sway a jury with no physical evidence whatsoever, and how unique people can be, and how some people can change regardless of how horrible their crime is.
you are a terrible human being
dm thanks for being that guy who just comes out and sorts a thread out
i'm torn over what i think is the correct treatment, but it does seem he was given his chance 20 years ago. despite what u_d said the article did say he was given multiple integration opportunities, i am sure the social stigma of his past actions would be difficult to overcome. however, from the rest of the article it doesn't look like he even tried. he had multiple instances of minor offences, the majority of which are related or identical to past instances. we can give people the chance to change b
he seems like a man beyond help, he doesn't help himself or doesn't let others help him. i'd push for death penalty; life imprisonment isn't helping anyone.
Excuse me I just raped a kid. Kindly tell me what was going through my
The fact of the matter is that he's done it before. Ok, no, not all of these people are psychotic messes. However this man obviously has a recurrent penchant for raping children. It's not like he can do this over and over and not hit the boiling point. I don't know if he deserves to die, but I'm not going to sit here and say it isn't reasonable at this point for this case. I'm inclined to completely agree with Hipmonlee.
I'd certainly agree that it's too easy to accuse someone of rape, especially years after the fact. That said convictions beyond a reasonable doubt is a standard almost impossible to improve upon, and you can't mandate DNA evidence in every case. A lot of it also comes down to dumb jurists who don't understand the word "a" in the "beyond a reasonable doubt."
While it's true there are cases that are severe miscarriages of justice like the one you initially mentioned, there is no one who disagrees with the standard of innocent before proven guilty. Moreover it should be clear we're all talking about convicted child molesters, not simply accused child molesters - and specifically the variety of people who show a tendency to re-offend, which quite frankly in the case of most pedophiles is almost certain. They get a sexual and power rush out of violating people with no effective means to defend themselves, physically, mentally, or emotionally. It's predation in its purest form.
I'm also opposed to reactionary law implementation, but this same exact story in the initial thread plays out over and over again in Massachusetts because we coddle people like this and blame "the system" or "their life circumstances" for the fact they like to diddle kids.
Life circumstances don't commit crime, people commit crime. The system doesn't create crime, people create crime. Criminals are not victims. They are perpetrators who create victims. To treat the innocent like criminals and criminals like innocents is absurd. People confuse justice and mercy. There must be a just punishment for a crime this severe. I believe that just punishment, should it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, is life without parole. Mercy in such a case would be to reco
The criminal justice system in the West relies on the concept of free will for its authority. It is also based on retribution for action regardless of the thoughts or life circumstances of the perpetrator, save where they lead to premeditation on the act in question. Rehabilitation will only work on people who want to change. It will never work on those who will themselves to continue engaging in crime. Those people relish in the pain and anguish they cause others for their own amusement, and will happily lie to anyone foolish enough to believe them to increase access to their prey. If you want to show true compassion for criminals, make them serve their just punishments. Then they will know the price for victimizing another human being is steep and high, and cannot be bargained down.
It's real easy to justify a hateful, condescending attitude when one can easily put negative labels on the object of your judgment, thereby also giving one a free pass to judge people who disagree. It's trivial to use labels that aren't actually mutually exclusive, but to spin them in such a way that they seem to be. Statements in the vein of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" are nothing but pedantic bullshit aimed at playing at the irrational, emotional side of people. Especially disturbing is that somehow the criminal is either "a victim of society" or "responsible for his crimes", but never both!
These things get in the way of the goal we SHOULD be talking about, which is a solution that best benefits everyone regardless of how angry it makes people. Maybe that does mean executing the guy, putting him out of his (and everyone else's) misery. Maybe it doesn't. It's more than possible that an arbitrary judgment of the "just punishment" is not actually in everyone's b
est interests.
Desert as an objective, independent concept does not exist. It is a set of consequences of whatever morality we're using, and nothing more.
These things get in the way of the goal we SHOULD be talking about, which is a solution that best benefits everyone regardless of how angry it makes people. Maybe that does mean executing the guy, putting him out of his (and everyone else's) misery. Maybe it doesn't. It's more than possible that an arbitrary judgment of the "just punishment" is not actually in everyone's b
Desert as an objective, independent concept does not exist. It is a set of consequences of whatever morality we're using, and nothing more.
Sorry someone else changed it. My old title wasn't good however and I trust the moderators on doing what's best for a better discussion.
I'm still perplexed that multiple people in this thread actually suggested the idea of pre-emptive punishment as a legitimate solution. Sure, statistics point to offenders of certain crimes repeating their behavior more often than not, but can you really justify punishing someone for a crime they MIGHT commit later? Geez, it's a damn good thing you people aren'
t our legislators...
1) Get rid of the violent pedofile
2) Don't pay lots of tax payer money to do it
Sounds like answers to a lot of problems there (that is, as hip said, if the appeals process/beauracracy stuff didn't take forever)
Pretty much this. Our justice system is not perfect so i can see why som
And I look forward to the day when we can predict the weather perfectly for more than a couple of weeks. Oh, and a way to find the exact position and momentum of something at the same time would be awesome.
Also I'd love to be able to do everything f
or free with no consequences whatsoever.
Also I'd love to be able to do everything f
VKCA
(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
man what the fuck
To the: you don't know what he's been through, although I completely agree the attitude towards pedophiles is disgusting, at what point does one become responsible for ones actions? I'm only like this because my parents are awful, and they're only awful because my grand parents are awful. Admittedly I have no idea what's going through this guys
Totally all for rehabilitation though.
Also I can't remember who it was but somebody mentioned that atheists are stereotypically for the death penalty. What gave you that impression/does anybody else itt think that way?
Quantum computing makes all of those things barring the last possible.
Also somehero - we already enslave our lesse
yeah, but, in fairness, that's not any worse th
VKCA
(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
What? We can get passed the uncertainty principle with quantum computing now? Holy fuck that shit's cool.
(also that's a list of three things, so saying all those but the last one is sorta silly)
I'd rather die from a bullet to the head than slowly of aids!!!yeah, but, in fairness, that's not any worse than everyone else's "let's just kill him" proposal
(unrelated, that be a funny place to mix up than and then, and then be quoted out of context)
Okay I'm sorry but before I get into my opinion, which agrees with DM, I'd just like to say, hey, I was raped too! Multiple times! By several people! Over years and years! Not every rape victim feels the same way. You're doing a disservice to them as well by lumping them all together in the same group.Excuse me I just raped a kid. Kindly tell me what was going through my mind as I enjoyed doing it. Oh, well, I suppose you already know my thought process then. I wanted to rape a kid so I did. We can play the "oh, you have to relate to their situation" card all day, but then we'd all be happy without punishment.
The fact of the matter is that he's done it before. Ok, no, not all of these people are psychotic messes. However this man obviously has a recurrent penchant for raping children. It's not like he can do this over and over and not hit the boiling point. I don't know if he deserves to die, but I'm not going to sit here and say it isn't reasonable at this point for this case. I'm inclined to completely agree with Hipmonlee.
Honestly though, killing someone is NEVER the answer. As UD said, how was it possible for him to change his ways? He was in prison for 11 years. That's not the best place to rehabilitate someone. And yes, there are always those stories about people who "find Jesus/God/Whatever" and do a complete 180 in their attitude and their personalities. However, the reason those stories are so interesting is because they are in the minorities. Most people in prison are surrounded by just as bad, if not worse, inmates. They pick up bad habits and are in bad surroundings that are not conducive to a recovery. (Like when people are arrested for weed possession, they usually go back to jail for worse crimes. Whereas people who are fined are usually better off). You also have to keep in mind that he MAY have no desire to change due to the fact that if you go to jail in general, but especially for things such as these, its damn near impossible to make something of yourself afterwards. But that's a completely separate issue.
And to clarify. I do NOT support this man, or his actions. However, he clearly needs help, and that's not something he can find behind bars. Its quite sickening how people here are calling for his death. Its really a terrible reflection of the bloodlust and intolerance of people. You don't kill people because they do terrible things. If they do such horrific things, lock them up in a sanitarium, to get treatment and to keep them OFF the streets. In general the whole situation is a mess.
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