Pokémon+ Luck-free metagame : Server up and running !

[Innocent Criminal]

The server is back up with the latest tweaks I wanted to implement :
- Shed Skin's count does not reset after switching out.
- Scald (and similar moves/abilities) activate their effect when used twice on the same pokemon without him switching out, but not necesserily consecutively.
- We now have Ubers, OU and UU tiers, both Singles and Doubles.
- Consequently, Wifi Clause won't give you troubles anymore when challenging someone for Ubers. It seems like this clause doesn't work if your team doesn't have any associated tier.



@Green Mage & others : I understand what you mean, but I didn't make this to solve the "hax issue" and make luck bearable : the point is to make a deterministic alternative giving you full control over the game (like chess), while still keeping the competitive qualities of Pokemon. This is why I went as far as altering roar mechanics, as there is a world of differences between minor luck involvement and being truly deterministic.

 

[X Kitsune X]

Is the server still up? I can't see it on the list, and I can't connect with advanced connection either.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Sorry, it's back in the server list and I updated the advanced connection IP in the first post.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

I don't really like the phazing mechanic... kinda ruins stall for me

 

[MaestroXXVI]

For roar/whirlwind, try making the first phaze switch to the second pokemon in the party, second phaze to third poke, and so on, without any resetting (maybe even make both parties share the counter, so if you've been phazed twice and you phaze your opponent, his fourth pokemon comes out).

This would puts some skill into how you would counter phazing ("Next time his Skarm comes out, I'll send in Pokemon X to scare it, and when he Whirwinds me out Pokemon Y will come in to clean up! However, to do that I need to switch Pokemon Y out into Pokemon Z's slot, which is a pretty risky move at this point") yet probably be jumbled enough that by mid- or late-game neither player will be able to plan a strategy around Phazing more than a turn or two in advance.

 

[kawaiiestkatana]

Seems to be down at the moment. How many people play this? Pokemon Online has a Clear Skies weather free tier that if you lurked on forums you'd know many people agree with banning weather no one plays it. This is a bit different as it is it's own server but still.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Back up. I'm having troubles keeping it up recently, as my IP sometimes changes for no apparent reason, and I can't even notice it as the server is technically still working (but unlisted).

If you're interested in this, you should keep a second PO open on this server while you play on Smogon/PO. Around 30 battles a day are played here, but I see many people disconnecting immediately because there's no one else at the moment. Stay connected in a background window and you're likely to find someone to play with.

 

[BreadMasterBob]

Well it sounds like the server was created bc the person who made it was butthurt over getting haxed too much. That is understandable but like many have stated before luck is part of the game but if you dont like it then go ahead and play in the server. Myself, I dont even get on PO unless im gonna test a team out but more power to yall who do

 

[blarajan]

This is a really cool idea. I can't say I'd play it, but it's a really cool idea and I commend you for going out of your way to do this.

@Every idiot complaining about this: It's not standard. The sole purpose of this server is to mitigate or remove hax. If you think this new server is a good idea becasue you hate hax, then play in this server. If you think removing hax from the game is a terrible idea...play on the original server. There's no reason to bash this project or say it's a stupid endeavor because hax is a part of Pokemon..the sole purpose of this project is to remove that hax from Pokemon and have a different metagame.

Really good work IC. I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I hate bumping a 2 and a half month old thread but is this dead?

This idea always seemed interesting. :/

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Not dead, but in coma... It turned out I did that at the wrong time, didn't really have time to do what I planned and then couldn't even host it, so it was put on hold for a while. I hope start it again when I find both the time and a host, but probably not until next summer, unless someone is willing to help with hosting.

 

[Pan.]

Thats not Pokémon anymore - why dont you guys just live with the fact that Pokémon is a luck based game?

Its like going to the casino and always win.

 

[Box]

It still is Pokemon, just a less luck-based variant.

Anyway, I don't support it because it splits the playerbase.

 

[Hydeous]

The point of a game is to make the Luck work for you, not to remove it completely.

QFT.

"Bad luck" or "hax" is just a possibility you didn't take into account.
Being good is about not leaving enough room to luck for it to matter ; compensating with talent and effort. Of course, the scope of this statement extends far beyond games.

 

[a fairy]

@Every idiot complaining about this: It's not standard. The sole purpose of this server is to mitigate or remove hax. If you think this new server is a good idea becasue you hate hax, then play in this server. If you think removing hax from the game is a terrible idea...play on the original server. There's no reason to bash this project or say it's a stupid endeavor because hax is a part of Pokemon..the sole purpose of this project is to remove that hax from Pokemon and have a different metagame.

 

[Raptorg]

I think the changes to moves like Thunder, Hydro Pump or Fire Blast are dumb.

Yes, it has the chance of making you(the user) unlucky. But this is a choice YOU made. Meaning you're ok with missing with those moves.
On the other hand, critical strikes, flinchhax, random status, sand veil are not a choice made by the person being "haxed".

Not saying the concept as a whole is bad, it's just that this rule is a little silly..

 

[scampy]

Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Thunder, Blizzard, Focus Blast, Megahorn and Gunk Shot lowers the user's corresponding offensive stat one stage. Thunder, Hurricane and Blizzard do not under their respective weathers, but the rain moves lose half of their power under the sun. Seed Flare, Power Whip and lolMegaKick do not have downsides for now.

In the interests of keeping your modification of Pokemon as true as possible to the original, perhaps consider altering the base powers so that your damage output is what you'd get as an average in the real game? So,

Fire Blast: 120 BP x 85 % hit rate = 102 BP
Hydro Pump: 120 BP x 80 % hit rate = 96 BP
Thunder: 120 BP x 70 % hit rate = 84 BP

People are probably going to call me out and say that these are too similar to Flamethrower, Surf, and Thunderbolt to warrant using. But that's not something we should be concerned about if the primary goal is to eliminate luck.

Blizzard, Thunder and Hurricane should rise to 120 BP again under their respective weathers.

 

[Zarco]

Seems unbalanced and somwhat rigid to me... While the idea of no hax is cool, the rules put in place become complicated, confusing, gamechanging, off putting to new players, and in some ways unbalanced. Luck is not an absolute negative in Pokemon. The best players know how to use luck and probability to their advantage, and must be able to both build and play around unfortunate hax. Luck makes any strategy flawed in some way, and accommodating for that is part of the game. Sure, it's not strictly "competitive" by some terms but the best players will win games in the long run and hit the top of the ladder regardless of a single game's crits or misses. The game simply can be bland without any chances. Now SubDD Gyarados and Poison Heal Breloom can always switch into scald without caution, and Jirachi will never be beaten by any Tornadus. Sure it's an interesting idea, but playing it doesn't seem remotely interesting, and it seems very 1-dimensional.

 

[Gerard]

What happens if Own Tempo Liligant uses Petal Dance? Does she still has her SpA reduced?

 

[AQuantumLeaf]

I wholeheartedly support the idea of a hax-free metagame -- I've thought a lot about how to reduce the effect of luck on the game, but this is quite a bit more comprehensive than anything I've imagined. I feel like the rules could use a bit of tweaking (I feel like these modifications tend to modify the way the game is played to an unnecessarily large extent), but I'm going to give the metagame a try.

Luck is not an absolute negative in Pokemon. The best players know how to use luck and probability to their advantage, and must be able to both build and play around unfortunate hax.

I really disagree with you, Zarco, and everyone else who says hax is good, in large part because Pokemon's design makes it nearly impossible to account for luck in any reasonable way. How many times have you had an important counter get critt'ed at a bad time and were then swept? (+1 if it was critted by a moxie salamence).

A good example of a strategy game with a large luck component is the Battle for Wesnoth (turn-based strategy, in a setting heavily inspired by Lord of the Rings). In BfW, although each individual attack (usually) has a 40% chance to miss, each unit can attack 2-4 times in a turn and each player can attack with their entire army, usually 15+ units, every turn, meaning that unusually lucky streaks are more immediately balanced by unusually unlucky streaks. Contrast that with pokemon, where each turn 1 pokemon on each side attack per turn, and rather than representing a replaceable part of your army, each poke is an integral, rarely-expendable part of your team, further amplifying the effects of luck.

 

[tehy]

I know blarajan already basically demolished the "luck is part of the game" people, but...

This is effing competitive pokemon, people. Sleep is part of the game, having the same pokemon twice and evasion moves are part of the game, and UBERS are part of the game. Why not go to the NU forums and say arceus is part of the game? Oh wait, that's right. Because in some ways pokemon is a flawed game, and a lot of people prefer to change it a little to make it much better. Personally, i like the idea of a hax-free metagame, although i personally think they're going about it all wrong. They've created a luck-free metagame, but it feels more like now you're playing around effects that you know will happen the next turn, which just seems...weird, honestly. Not saying whether or not it's a bad idea, but i feel like there should be a better way.

 

[DTC]

Locking this. It's a really old thread and the server isn't even up anymore. If Innocent_Criminal wants me to open this thread and continue the project, he may pm me.