Raining OU: "INNOV@TION" ("Solid Liquid")

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

From now on, I have decided to give a bolster to my Threads, giving a specialized title for each of them. This is in order to differentiate them from other similiar teams. I will also place more effort in "Counters," which is now renamed "Threats."

Yes, I'm sorry, this is a late RMT. I've decided to fish out one of my lesser used teams (from over a hundred, though most are jokes), one with a Latias on it. As you may know, Latias has been banished for Ubers, and thus I am trying to find a suitable replacement to slot over her on all my teams.

That being said, here is yet ANOTHER Rain team with Latias, like my previous RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2862270.

Premier Ball set: Echo, DOTAKUDON: Hollow Note!
☼

Damp Rock
Levitate
252 HP/120 Attack/136 Special Def (0 Speed IV)
Relaxed (+Def, -Speed)
Rain Dance
Reflect
Explosion
Stealth Rock

A good, solid lead here. Damp Rock Rain Dance, set up Stealth Rock if possible, then boom right out of there (assuming I'm at that low an HP).
It is a little unnerving not to carry Gyro Ball on my leadZong, but I am unafraid to get Taunted. Usually, I would be switching to Rotom, in any case.
I have always been attracted to the usage of Gyro Ball on Bronzong leads, being able to smash things such as Azelf and Aerodactyl in a pinch.
I have some consideration to use Azelf, solely due to because Jirachi is on the team.

Ultra Ball set-Dream, TAILFLEECE: Blade Run!

Leftovers
Static
62 HP/194 Attack/252 Special Attack (30 Attack and Special Attack IV)
Quiet (+Special Attack, -Speed)
Tail Glow
(Oh, wait a second...Ampharos can't learn Tail Glow...)
Substitute
Thunder
Hidden Grass Power
Focus Punch

Now, now, now, what's all this then?! Never mind that, what is AMPHAROS doing on OU?! I want to start by saying I was never concerned about using what Pokémon in what tier. Today's RMT is focused on the usage of Ampharos, his outrageous 115 Special Attack, and mixed potential.
EVs: Obviously, I don't want to lose any bulk, and with Paralysis being all common and whatnot, I'm not afraid to sacrifice Speed. Quiet Nature it is, then. Max Special Attack is in effect. The Attack EVs is 16 EVs overkill for Ampharos to score clean 2HKOs on the best physical Blissies there are and a OHKO on max HP Tyranitar. HP EVs are divisible by 16 for best Leftovers mileage.
Moves: Thunder is Ampharos' strongest move, and, with Rain, is equipped with infinite Accuracy and a 70% chance to shatter Protects. This is further backed up with the use of Static. All the Paralysis and threats Amphy can cause allows me to use Substitute, and to fire a Focus Punch if necessary (otherwise causing more misery with Thunder). Hidden Power is there mainly for Ground coverage, but most importantly to maul Swampert. I DARE you to give me a legitimate reason to not use Amphy.*
*Actually, I have heard of other requests to use Raichu and Electivire. Raichu carries more Attack, but significantly less Special. The increased Speed does not greatly appeal me. Electivire is notable, but the lack of Static and less Special Attack still brings me down.
I elected Ampharos as, at 115 Base, it holds the fourth strongest Thunder (behind Zapdos/Raikou and Mangyzone, but Ampharos is the best to take Blissey and Tyranitar).

Dive Ball set-Whirl, OCEANSTORM: Majestic Shine!

Leftovers
Swift Swim
180 HP/252 Attack/76 Speed
Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)
Rain Dance
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Outrage

Main Physical sweeper. Can also prepare Rain Dance if needed. Lack of Kingdra on a Rain team is more unheard of than Ampharos out of UU.
As expected, the EVs are ripped straight from Smogon. Water + Dragon returns to display its phenomenal coverage. In these times of war, you need to place your hands on all the Dragons you can abuse.
In terms of team support, outside of Kingdra using Rain Dance for the team and the team using Rain Dance for Kingdra, this Rain team carries a Static user, giving more Paralysis than the average Rain team. This gives Kingdra time for its other death dance: the Dance of the Dragon.
At least the Rain washes the blood away.

Net Ball set-Infiltrate, MOTORCREEP: Spirit of the Nuclear Fusion!
☼

Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP/136 Def/120 Special Def
Calm (+Special Def, -Attack)
Thunder
Will-O-wisp
Hydro Pump
Shadow Ball

I've packed a defensive buffer for this team. Just like Latias, Rotom shrugs off hits of Fighting, Ground, and Electric. Not only that, Rotom flings powerful Rain-based attacks: it's STAB Thunder never misses, and its inaccurate Hydro Pump has gained STAB. Shadow Ball is a backup attack, and when necessary, Rotom can spread Burns over Thunder's Paralysis. Note that if Latias' replacement does not carry Rain Dance, I suppose I could always slot Rain Dance over WOW and equip a Damp Rock.



WELL, GUYS, I'VE REACHED MY CONCLUSION.
I've been looking over all my options. All three of the following teams work equally well, and thus, I have decided to retain all three teams as variations of the same team.
Bronzong, Ampharos, Kingdra, Rotom
Jirachi + Ludicolo
Gliscor + Empoleon
Gliscor + Ludicolo

Cherish Ball set-Bring upon Tanabata, WISHMAKER: Star of the Seven Nights!
☼

Damp Rock
Serene Grace
252 HP/176 Speed/80 Special Attack
Timid (+Speed, -Attack)
Rain Dance
Wish
Thunder
U-turn

Jirachi has laid claim to the honor of being the first one to take over the role of my Latias. In fact, 75% of the moves I run on Jirachi are all moves that Latias can have. Recognizable benefits include U-turn (traded Surf for this) and 30% more hax off Thunder (traded Dragon STAB for this).
Yeah, yeah, whatever. Not only is Jirachi my back-up Rain bringer, but it really DOES cast the essence of life (yeah, corny, get over it). Rain down on the parade, cast a Wish, and U-turn for a larger offensive force. The hax off Thunder is beneficial not only for creating set-up fodder for Kingdra and Ampharos, but also time for Jirachi to do its magic. And of course, it's a great offensive tool aside from that.

Nest Ball set-Fandango, MEXIRAIN: Flamenco Fighter!

Life Orb
Swift Swim
60 Attack/196 Speeed/252 Special Attack
Rash (+Special Attack, -Special Def)
Surf
Grass Knot
Ice Beam
Focus Punch

Ludicolo...Kingdra's Special partner...yeah. Pretty boring, though, and I feel it lacks dextirity.
Murg... >_> Fine, a more decent overview:
I present you with a SECOND Focus Puncher on the team! Unlike Ampharos, Ludicolo abuses the Rain in order to outspeed all Adamant Flygon (and also Modest non-Scarf Heatran outside of Rain) and striking with a rather mediocre Surf. Still, these Surfs net OHKOs, which says a lot. Ice Beam and Grass Knot, of course, provide an excellent dose of coverage, topped with a maraschino Life Orb. Focus Punch deals a considerable amount of damage to Blissey, but nowhere near KO range (assuming max HP).

Poké Ball set-Command, Empoleon: Evisceration Emperor!

Life Orb
Torrent
40 HP/216 Speed/252 Special Attack
Modest (+Special Attack, -Attack)
Hydro Pump
Agility
Ice Beam
Grass Knot

On the original team, when I had a Latias, I used a Specs Empoleon with Hydro Pump, Hidden Electric Power, Grass Knot, and Ice Beam. Other than Ludicolo, people suggested using Aqua Jet over one of the moves.
You know, heck with it. Empoleon has Special Attack, Ludicolo has Speed, and Starmie is sorta a mix. However, why not just slap Agility on Empoleon?
I have to admit, there are times where Specs Aqua Jet would've certainly come in handy, but there's a rule against using different sets at one given occasion, and usually, Agility Empoleon will do the job nicely. And of course, naturally, Empoleon works great with Gliscor.

Heal Bell set-Soar through the gritty night, SCORPGLIDE: Devil Bat!

Damp Rock
Hyper Cutter
252 HP/184 Attack/72 Speed
Impish (+Def, -Special Attack)
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Rain Dance
Roost

Gliscor was the first one to be considered to replace Latias. She retains many key resistances, including Ground, Electric, and Fighting. Loss of Water resistance is neglible, and still having Ice weakness is ok. On the plus side, Gliscor drops the Psychic-type held by Latias, which was detrimental in sharing weaknesses to Rotom.
Aside from type, Gliscor's STAB Earthquake also easily allows it to dispatch Tyranitar, a thorn for Rain teams. Ice Fang is almost required as a consistent option versus Zapdos and Flygon. I only hesitated in using Gliscor since every recommended for Jirachi and Empoleon, but I believe Gliscor + Empoleon is the best version.

Threats
At a glance, this appears to be a good, solid team(s). I'll go over each one seperately.
Removing Latias, the team clearly has issues to Ground, Electric, and Fighting (though not largely). Gliscor is the only other Pokémon who resists these types. Plus, it can fit comfortably into this team (dropping Latias means dropping Wish and a Water resistance, but I think I can suck it up). Example set: Roost, Rain Dance, Earthquake, U-turn. Please give me your thoughts on my usage of Gliscor and how it can relate to the team (especially with Rotom's WOW), as well as other examples on Latias' successor.
NOW THEN, as for actual opposing threats, it seems as though not much can penetrate the team:
Breloom appears to be a thorn. I believe I can muscle my way through, though. On the topic of Grass-types, Roserade can cause damage, but nothing too noticable.
As always, the unpredictability of Abomasnow and Tyranitar cause huge problems, especially for a Rain team. Most of the team should still be able to come up on top, though. Still, when it comes to large movepools like these weather titans, just about anything is possible. Hippowdon is a pain, but usually doesn't fair well versus Rain.
Zapdos with Substitute can greatly hinder my PP. Aside from that, it can hit me hard with Electricity, or just plain use Thunder Wave. Defensive Zapdos have also been known to pack Thunder.
Finally, with the changing of Empoleon to Jirachi, I am a little more suspectible to Bug attacks. The only notable user, however, is Heracross. Bronzong and Rotom should defeat it. Ampharos has a high chance of Paralyzing it, but that will do it more harm than good. Finally, outside of Choice Scarf, Heracross is vulnerable to being outsped, and WITH a Choice Scarf, it can be outmanuevered.
I think I'll stop here. There are hundred of Pokémon out there, but this team is highly balanced in types. I'll let you decide.

I am on Shoddy Battle: Smogon server every day, most of the time.
youtube.com/PhilosophicalPsycho

Philosophy: You are shown a reptile, and then you are shown a reptile from a different hemisphere. Despite being from different hemispheres, they are still the same perspective to you. A lizard is a lizard.
Why should anything else be any different?

I really hope the mods weren't berated with my incomplete team. I got rid of Latias ASAP. Latias in Rain really worked great. Her phenomenal movepool made her a beneficiary mate. She was the main Rain Dancer after Bronzong has fallen, and her strong Special has shattered enemy noggins. But, now, alas, is this case, from now on someone else took her place. She was chosen for her resistance to Electric and Ground. She granted me Wishes; her sweeping was sound. Finding the perfect replacement still isn't easy, but it must be fabulous, before I get queasy. For now, my Latias has to depart, but the way I used her will always rest in my heart.
Finite. Godspeed, ye olde Uber Dragon.

 

[DarXidE]

latias is uber, so i suggest removing him...

 

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

latias is uber, so i suggest removing him...

Well, YEAH, that's the point of the whole RMT.

...suggest removing her.

 

[DankDawson]

Go with this spread on Kingdra:
144 Hp / 160 Atk / 164 Spe / 40 SpeD

If Ampharos fits your team, then I guess stick with it.

And Latias is uber.. So this team isn't even OU.

I'd max speed on Empoleon as well.

 

[eastamazonantidote]

You guys don't read, do you? Wow...

Bronzong wants Gyro Ball or EQ over Reflect. Anything with a Sash makes you waste a turn killing it. I'd use Gyro Ball for Aero and Azelf, though EQ does have its uses.

16 SpDef on Amphy isn't doing much. I'd put it into attack to do a little more damage.

Kingdra wants to be a mixed Rain sweeper. It is just so much more destructive and doesn't waste the rain as much. Go with the standard set from the analysis.

I like Empoleon. But Rotom really grinds my gears. You want to use it defensively? Go with Will-o-Wisp, Thunderbolt (you won't have rain up all the time), Rain Dance, Pain Split with either Damp Rock or Lefties.

Now Latias' replacement should definitely be Ludicolo. Too much power and speed to handle. Go standard.

 

[Grayheart]

You should use Aqua Jet on Empoleon somewhere - either over HP or Grass Knot - for priority. Your team is pretty slow save Kingdra in the rain, and the STAB rain boosted priority could probably help you in sticky situations, even if it is a Specs Atk- set. Besides, Water/Grass/Ice and Water/Electric/Ice have great coverage on their own.

 

[ginganinja]

Guys seriously, the OP realises that Latias is Uber and is asking for a possiable replacemnt for her. Don't just say "Latias is Uber" bucause it proves that
a) you clearly did not read the full RMT
and
b) You wasted your time posting something uslesss to the OP.

Anyway on to the Rate.


First I really don't like Bronzong as a lead. Its very vulnerable to taunt and on a Rain team you want to get rain up ASAP to put your opponient one the back foot. TO this end I suggest a Lead Azelf with Taunt, RainDance, SR and Explosion/U-Turn. Azelf is one of the best rain leads around and outspeed many OU leads thanks to its base 115 speed stat.

Also I just don't see why Ampharos is needed here. Its slow and quite frankly Substitute and Focus Punch are realy going to end up stalling out your rain turns. Also I don't realy see why you are using Ampharos over any other electric type. YOu meantion that you like it better than Electivire and Raikou but both are NU or low OU. why not run a Zapdos of something which sets up rain has 125 base SpA stat and is a helava lot faster as well? Personally I would run a Zapdos over Ampharos since it fits much better on your team.

Kingdra- Fine

Empoleon- I don't realy like Empoleon on this team either (sorry!). Its very slow and your set means that Empoleon will be switched out often thus wasting more rain turns. You are also vulnerable to something like Vaporeon which is walling your 3/4ths of your moveset and can set up a wish to heal its teamates. Personally I would prefer seeeing something like a Ludicolo to abuse the rain or even a Kabutops to get some more physical offence on your team.

Rotom- Yeah its fine. I would really consider Rain Dance over Will-o-wisp though.

Latias- I suggest a Jirachi over it. Jirachi can fill many diferent roles for your team. it can act as a rain dancer, abuse the rain with Water Pulse and Thunder or (like latias) heal the team with Wish. I realy do think that (depending on what your wan) you can run something like Thunder/Wish/U-turn/Water Pulse/ or Rain Dance/Thunder/Water Pulse/U-turn or a fusion of those to will work out for you. Jirachi is a bit slower than Latias but I do feel that its versitility can work on your team.

Hope I helped

Have a Nice Day!

EDIT: damn speant so much time on this post I got ninjad on the Latias is Uber people

 

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

OK guys. I'll make an "amalgazation reply." It makes me sorta happy no strong refutation has been made towards Ampharos.

I think I'll take a Bronzong lead over Azelf. I could use Bronzong's neutrality to Dark/Ghost. I don't mind being slow, and Azelf's lack of bulk means it's much harder to set up. I think I WILL take Gyro Ball over Reflect, though. What I have most concerns about is over EVs, especially since I'm dropping Reflect.

@dankdawson: Not enough reasoning to back claims. BTW, as for your Dragonite, probably Roost, Dragon Dance, Heal Bell, Dragon Claw: Careful, 252 HP EV, 252 Special Def, 4 whatever.

@antidote: Good point on Amphy's EVs. You also suggest Rotom adapt Latias' role and pop in Ludicolo. Mix Kingdra, Special Empoleon, probably Physical Ludicolo. Solid suggestion offensively, but still a bit shaky. It makes me a tad more vulnerable to Fighting, Electric, and Fire, though. I won't know how to change Rotom until I see the rest of the team. I helped my uncle jack off a horse.

@Prince: Empoleon will have to use Quiet and 4 Attack EVs, but I am still largely unsure of that decision. I will have to wait for a second opinion, but cool Aaron picture.

@ginga: I appreciated your suggestions more than any RMT of mine. Ampharos does not specialize in using Focus Punch; he trying to get free Subs off Paralysis in order to spam his powerful Thunder, which is just as powerful as Raikou's (and Rain is just a luxury, I can still afford to miss, especially with a Sub). Removing Empoleon removes a critical Dark/Ghost resist. I also don't know if I can afford the power (but I actually think I can, as mentioned in OP). What are your thoughts on using Aqua Jet, a unique niche Empoleon possess? As for Rotom, I will see whether or not I will give it Rain Dance depending on how the rest of the team turns out.

For a Latias replacement, the following have been considered:

Gliscor: Best resembles Latias in terms of resistances (Fighting, Ground, Electric, and exchanging Water weakness for Bug resist and Dark/Ghost neutrality). Bug resist is big in terms of Ludicolo. The other resists are more important for Empoleon usage (the other hotly debated Pokémon). Main concern is dealing with Zapdos and mediocre Special Def. Moves: Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang, Roost, Rain Dance, U-turn, Baton Pass, Toxic, Taunt, Stealth Rock.

Ludicolo: Also a candidate over Empoleon. Still retains Latias' Bug weakness. Lacks resistances, but lacks weaknesses as well. If used over Latias, I will use a Physical set. If used over Empoleon, I'll likely use Special. Not bad, but I think there may be better options. Lack of defensive stats and Bug weakness nips at me. Moves: Rain Dance, Leech Seed, Grass Knot, Surf, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Hidden Power, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Swords Dance, Brick Break, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Seed Bomb, Waterfall.

Zapdos: Also provides Fighting, Ground, and Bug resists. Main concern is Rock weakness with no Rapid Spinner and shallow moves. I will feel more inclined to use Rain Dance on Rotom, keep Empoleon, and use Azelf. The OP also set forth the notion I'd love to have Emonga be a Special-based Gliscor.Moves: Thunder, Roost, U-turn, Heat Wave, Hidden Power, Toxic, Signal Beam, Light Screen, Baton Pass.

Jirachi: I would definitely use Ludicolo over Empoleon and probably Azelf over Bronzong. Main concerns are Ground weakness (much lessened by Ludicolo, despite mediocre defensive Stats) and neutrality to vital types. Moves: U-turn, Wish, Healing Wish, Thunder, Water Pulse, Signal Beam, Draco Meteor, Hidden Power, Safeguard, Reflect, Light Screen, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Trick, Stealth Rock, Iron Head, Rain Dance.

Celebi: Packs severe Bug, Ice, and Ghost/Dark weaknesses, but is holds Fighting, Ground, and Electric resists over Jirachi. Used wiith Bronzong and Empoleon. Main concerns are many weaknesses and lack of vital resistances in general. Moves: Baton Pass, U-turn, Earth Power, Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, Trick, Heal Bell, Heal Block, Healing Wish, Reflect, Light Screen, Recover, Leech Seed, Rest, Safeguard, Signal Beam, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Water Pulse, Rain Dance.

Take yer votes.
Did nobody notice that nice little epic I did for Latias?

 

[reeebok]

Although you've already got ampharos, if you do wind up replacing him/her/it I would suggest either offensive Raikou//Specs Jolteon in the place of Latias. I would second the previously suggested removal of ampharos because Blissey runs away from kingdra crying.
However, if you decide against removing ampharos, I'd go with ludicolo as a replacement for latias.

 

[ginganinja]

Yea I still like Jirachi best on the team since it can run pretty much a similar sequence of mves that your latias runs thus making it fit in with littlw effort. Synergy can be troublesome but Jirachi can take quite a few hits and the Ground Weakness is covered by Rotom and Bronzong (and maybe Ludicolo)

In regards to Empoleon and Aqua Jet... yea I just don't quite see it working on a rain team. To my mind Rain Teams are purly offensive using extremely fast sweepers to overload the opponients defences. Empoleon does not get a speed boost in rain and only gets his STAB boosted (which every water type gets). Personally I prefer Empoleon on a team that runs something like Toxic Spikes that gets rid of Vaporeon and Blissey with ease since its not strong enough to power through Blissey. Again I prefer Ludicolo on its spot and while you lose valuable resists I don't think you will have too many issues (especialy if you run Wish on Jirachi!)

Anyway hope I helped

Have a Nice Day

 

[SmileZ]

Quick question, does you Latias replacement need wish?

I was going to suggest a swords dancing Ludicolo purely for it's power in the rain but I believe you've already considered this.

Oh and I saw your "epic" on Latias, from the heart... errr, 'nuff said.... lol

 

[PhilosophicalPsychologica]

@rebok: Ampharos is male.

Looking over ginga's and smile's commentary, I think I will take action to use support Jirachi as well as Special Ludicolo over Empoleon and Latias. Jirachi is definitely being used over Latias. Whether I will have Ludicolo replace Empoleon (and by that I mean will I keep Empoleon or replace him with someone else) or replace JIRACHI with someone else remains to be the question.

As expected, Jirachi and Ludicolo are really excellent. The question that is left standing is that REPLACING JIRACHI WITH GLISCOR and REVIVING EMPOLEON, WITH AGILITY OVER HIDDEN POWER will be even better...