VGC Rate My WindRoom team please

[TerrorthornColt]

This is essentially for a tournament that is basically VGC style (4v4, lvl 50 Cap), but with Double OU rules (No Item Clause, you can use Diancie, Jirachi, can't use Mega Mence; Dark Void is banned). I had some confusion earlier how to label it, I apologize for that.

Hello, I'm TerrorthornColt and I'm new to the forum and to doubles battling however I've made a team that I'd like rated and some advice on if you would please.

I've mainly used this team on WiFi battles but not really Showdown ladders as of yet but I've had pretty decent success with it. It's key to be able to have Speed control with it. However it's not absolutely necessary in a few circumstances. The team tends to work its best in Trick Room but it has success in Tailwind in order to keep the opponent guess which they'll have to deal with.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Nature: Modest
Ability: Trace (Pixilate)
EVs: 108 HP/124 Def/252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/20 Speed
-Trick Room
-Hyper Voice
-Psychic
-Protect

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry/Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/156 Def/76 SpAtk/4 SpDef/20 Speed
-Tailwind
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Protect

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Regenerate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
(0 Speed IVs)
-Rage Powder
-Spore
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb

Heatran @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 176 HP/252 SpAtk/80 Speed
-Substitute
-Heat Save
-Earth Power
-Protect

Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 232 HP/20 Atk/252 SpDef
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Superpower
-Crunch

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 136 HP/252 Atk/40 Def/34 SpDef/40 Speed
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Dragon Claw
-Protect

This team almost always leads with Amoonguss to play as a distraction while either allowing Suicune to set up Tailwind or Mega Gardevoir to set up Trick Room. Mega Gardevoir can also set up Trick Rooms if the opponent sets up their own Tailwind. He provides some offensive presence through Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain as so far I've not found Protect necessary for him. Sludge Bomb is mainly to deal with Fairies and Breloom as I don't have many others ways.

Heatran can normally get off a Substitute with ease and while being in Trick Room or Tailwind typically allows it to go first depending on the opponent. It's a great pair with about everyone on the team. Leftovers allows it to gain HP back from Substitute gradually. While behind the substitute it can generally provide great offensive presence through Heat Wave and Earth Power sometimes doing heavy chunks of damage to Pokemon that don't resist either move.

Suicune can function in Trick Room since its speed is even with that of Heatran and Mega Gardevoir has enough speed it could become a good Tailwind sweeper. It's item is interchangeable. Leftovers in Doubles OU, Sitrus if VGC. Suicune provides bulk in order to set up primarily and can cripple opponents physical attackers through Scald burns occasionally. Mega Gardevoir tends to be key to winning for me and really helps getting behind Substitutes with Hyper Voice although I've not ran into many people using Subs.

Tyranitar can sponge most special hits with Assault Vest and being behind sand allowing it to do pretty good chunks of damage with its attacks. It must watch for stray EQs. He mainly works well in Trick Room but has some suprise Tailwind use. Works well with Amoonguss providing Rage Powder support. He's mainly used to be a bulky attacker used to just dent holes in the opposing team.

Garchomp serves alot as a Fake Out, Mega Kangaskhan check with Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet but provides a good offensive presence in Tailwind mainly but can have some use in Trick Room. Garchomp is more of a secondary Tailwind sweeper but is also used to dent holes to provide others to KO.

So far my biggest problem is just not having a Ground immunity or resist and while I know Landorus-T could provide that mainly in place of Garchomp I feel as if my team would start looking like a lot of others but I may be wrong on that assumption.


Again any advice to make this team better would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you to those who took the time to read this.

 

[Yellow Paint]

Hey, welcome to dubs! Tailroom is actually one of the harder to use/less viable playstyles, as you have to be good at managing two different speed controls while still being mindful of mon placement, and the payout isn't much better than just using balance. I'm slightly concerned about what format you're building for, though. Doesn't wifi set mons to level 50, and only allows 4v4? It looks like you're using vgc spreads, which don't actually work once set to level 100. It's generally not a good idea to use the same exact team for vgc and doubles ou, as dou has different legal mons, ev spreads, and most importantly it's 6v6 instead of 4v4.

My rate will be treating this purely as a dou team, so please just use two different teams for the two very different formats.

In vgc, one tr or twind set lasts long enough to win you the match. In dubs, however, your team needs to last quite a bit longer to get a win vs most teams. Firstly, you have 0 ground immunities. This means a lando t can effectively sweep your team of two mons weak to intimidate and three mons that take heavy damage from eq. Paired with taunt thundy, you have pretty much 0 chance of bringing back momentum.

You can't really use lando yourself, you don't have enough things to eq next to. You kinda need intimidate somewhere to make up for garde's poor bulk, so gyara>suicune. Gyara outspeeds nonmega diancie, pretty much everything under twind, and underspeeds heatran and most attackers in tr.

Gyarados @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 180 HP / 224 Atk / 20 Def / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Stone Edge
- Double-Edge

Your twind setter could be zapdos, which is a good mon on its own with bulk comparable to suicune's. Watch out for diancie. Oh right drop garchomp for this slot, chomp isn't too great here.

Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 176 SpA / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Tailwind
- Roost

Tyranitar is also pretty underwhelming, imo replace with bisharp, who provides powerful priority and isn't weak to intimidate.

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Small changes:
give heatran a spread of 180 Hp, 244 Spa, 84 Spe (lefties number, pass adamant scarf lando under twind)
give amoonguss sitrus, with a spread of 252 Hp, 184 Def, 72 SpD, relaxed (survive mega metagross, rest in spdef)
give garde a spread of 88 hp, 144 def, 252 Spa, 24 Spe (max bulk, lives aegi and talonflame+ extra)


Good luck!

 

[TerrorthornColt]

It's for mainly a tournament Yellow Paint. And the rules are basically Doubles OU rules but 4v4 and lvl 50 cap so its pretty hard to explain. Some WiFi does allow 6v6 doubles but still maintains a lvl 50 cap. I mean with the Tournament being 4v4, lvl cap 50, but with Smogons rules of no item clause and such I'm not quite sure if I should plan like actual Doubles or for like VGC.

I really like the choices you've said and I'll take them into consideration. However it seems with this I don't have a EQ of my own. Im pretty sure I could put that on Gyarados over Double-Edge. Honestly not sure if EQ is absolutely that necessary. However I'm thinking maybe something more like:
-Waterfall
-Ice Fang
-Rock Slide/Stone Edge
-Earthquake

The Zapdos one I really like but I'm not seeing Roost as too necessary. I could Protect and give it Lefties as its not got an item clause. I just feel with Roost I could accidentally leave myself open to a either a random EQ (when Roosted) or Rock Slide (in Air).

The Bisharp one I'm not too sure with. I like how it's not weak to Intimidate but I'm really unsure what use Sucker Punch is in Doubles as I've not used the move in Doubles. Plus with Bisharp and these changes I don't have a Mega Kangaskhan, Darkrai, or or some other checks as I've got no Fighting type move. I'm curious about Iron Fist Pangoro maybe with Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Protect. I'm mainly curious because I know even at -1 Pangoro can OHKO Landorus-T with Ice Punch.

I am very curious if I just switch Garchomp for Landorus-T what it would look like. Suicune has been a very good Tailwind setter for the most part. I could stand to change TTar as its not done a whole lot for me I've noticed. But I'm not sure what would be good replacement as it is my only Mon carrying a Fighting move. Probably can put Bisharp in this scenario and give Landorus-T Superpower.


*EDIT* Actually I'm starting to like those a lot but still very unsure on Bisharp. I have no Fighting type move help if I go with Bisharp.

 

[Yellow Paint]

Well, I built for dou, not your 4v4 level 50 format, which is considerably different. That's pretty much vgc + diancie + keldeo - mence. Since you're playing at level 50, all of my spreads are worthless. Get new ones from somebody else. Some of my suggestions, like roost for zapdos's longevity, don't apply to 4v4, which is considerably more fast paced. Additionally, you don't have to bring all 6 of your mons, so you can afford to have things that would otherwise have unfavorable matchups overall.

Now, the reason I said you shouldn't run eq yourself is that you only have one levitator that can stay next to gyarados, so it really limits your options for partners. Double edge hits basically only rotom-wash harder, but it's nice for consistent, generally unresisted damage. I guess in 4v4 you'd be alright.

Also, since you're doing 4v4, you can get away with having both lando and gyara and replacing bisharp. If this were 6v6, you'd be basically asking to lose against anyone bringing a defiant or competitive user. Also, bisharp would be preferred as a secondary answers to trick room and subaegi, which I guess isn't too necessary any more. There's that fighting coverage you wanted.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
(lol idk vgc spreads)
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-Turn
- Superpower

It'd probably be best if you changed your thread tag to vgc, then made a mention in the op that dou mons are legal, dark void is banned, etc.

 

[TerrorthornColt]

Well, I built for dou, not your 4v4 level 50 format, which is considerably different. That's pretty much vgc + diancie + keldeo - mence. Since you're playing at level 50, all of my spreads are worthless. Get new ones from somebody else. Some of my suggestions, like roost for zapdos's longevity, don't apply to 4v4, which is considerably more fast paced. Additionally, you don't have to bring all 6 of your mons, so you can afford to have things that would otherwise have unfavorable matchups overall.

Now, the reason I said you shouldn't run eq yourself is that you only have one levitator that can stay next to gyarados, so it really limits your options for partners. Double edge hits basically only rotom-wash harder, but it's nice for consistent, generally unresisted damage. I guess in 4v4 you'd be alright.

Also, since you're doing 4v4, you can get away with having both lando and gyara and replacing bisharp. If this were 6v6, you'd be basically asking to lose against anyone bringing a defiant or competitive user. Also, bisharp would be preferred as a secondary answers to trick room and subaegi, which I guess isn't too necessary any more. There's that fighting coverage you wanted.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
(lol idk vgc spreads)
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-Turn
- Superpower

It'd probably be best if you changed your thread tag to vgc, then made a mention in the op that dou mons are legal, dark void is banned, etc.

I apologize. I was never sure how to label this to be exact. Thank you for helping anyways. I really do apologize for that. But I could your advice for making this team as a Doubles OU purely team in the future. But now that I see your explanations it makes complete sense

*EDIT* Oh wow.... I just read the banlist for tournament and its Smogon Singles Banlist, but in VGC style format. Smh.

 

[Serapis]

If you could link the tour rules here that would probably help, and since there's still a pretty solid degree of uncertainty here I'll keep my suggestions quick.

Assault Vest Landorus-T seems like it would serve you pretty well here as it has the combination of speed (middling) and bulk with Intimidate that you're looking for. It's true that your team has almost no EQ synergy, however that's a problem with Garchomp as well, so honestly it won't be much worse. Furthermore, should you decide to add Zapdos as a Tailwind user over Suicune then you will be able to use EQ a little more freely. The downside with Zappy is that bulky Waters are actually pretty good against things like Landorus-T, but then again Landorus comes with Thundurus in most cases (in pure VGC, M-Diance might affect that somewhat) so Suicune suffers from being easy to Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt which Zapdos fairs slightly better against.

Should you decide to keep Tyranitar, I do feel as though you could make good use of a Lum Berry or Life Orb set. Although the combination of Sand and AV is indeed formidable, Tyranitar's typing just naturally gives it too many weaknesses for it to be truly effective and the lack of Protect is sorely missed on non-Scarf sets (I'd drop EQ, EQ Ttar isn't good). As for the Bisharp suggestion in this slot. . . eh. It shares rather unfortunate defensive typing with Ttar, however it lacks the bulky base stats to make up for it and it doesn't even have a higher attack stat. It does have stronger STAB attacks and Defiant, so it really comes down to how much you fear Intimidate.

 

[TerrorthornColt]

If you could link the tour rules here that would probably help, and since there's still a pretty solid degree of uncertainty here I'll keep my suggestions quick.

Assault Vest Landorus-T seems like it would serve you pretty well here as it has the combination of speed (middling) and bulk with Intimidate that you're looking for. It's true that your team has almost no EQ synergy, however that's a problem with Garchomp as well, so honestly it won't be much worse. Furthermore, should you decide to add Zapdos as a Tailwind user over Suicune then you will be able to use EQ a little more freely. The downside with Zappy is that bulky Waters are actually pretty good against things like Landorus-T, but then again Landorus comes with Thundurus in most cases (in pure VGC, M-Diance might affect that somewhat) so Suicune suffers from being easy to Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt which Zapdos fairs slightly better against.

Should you decide to keep Tyranitar, I do feel as though you could make good use of a Lum Berry or Life Orb set. Although the combination of Sand and AV is indeed formidable, Tyranitar's typing just naturally gives it too many weaknesses for it to be truly effective and the lack of Protect is sorely missed on non-Scarf sets (I'd drop EQ, EQ Ttar isn't good). As for the Bisharp suggestion in this slot. . . eh. It shares rather unfortunate defensive typing with Ttar, however it lacks the bulky base stats to make up for it and it doesn't even have a higher attack stat. It does have stronger STAB attacks and Defiant, so it really comes down to how much you fear Intimidate.

There won't be a link for a while. The tournament is a good few months away and right now only a friend has stated the rules to me. The tournament is normals singles so this change is new and I have plenty of singles based teams just in case. But as of now there is no link available sadly.

Plus I don't fear Intimidate at all. A majority of my team is special based. I like the ideas you've stated. They look like they could really put in some work. Question if you could answer for me please. If its 4v4 at all should I worry about having 3 weak to Water, 3 weak to Ice and having no resistance to Rock?

 

[Serapis]

Three water weaknesses is annoying, but if you add Zappy it should be manageable. Three Ice weaknesses is honestly just par for the course. Three Rock weaknesses. . . yeah, that's not good. Then again, if you play around it correctly it shouldn't be too bad since the only real Roc type user is Landorus-T. I used Gardevoir TailRoom to win Indiana VGC Regionals, and although it's quite different than what you have, if you're interested my team's online here: http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/autumn-regional-championships/2015/teams/fortwayne/masters/

 

[TerrorthornColt]

Three water weaknesses is annoying, but if you add Zappy it should be manageable. Three Ice weaknesses is honestly just par for the course. Three Rock weaknesses. . . yeah, that's not good. Then again, if you play around it correctly it shouldn't be too bad since the only real Roc type user is Landorus-T. I used Gardevoir TailRoom to win Indiana VGC Regionals, and although it's quite different than what you have, if you're interested my team's online here: http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/autumn-regional-championships/2015/teams/fortwayne/masters/

Well its not Rock weaknesses (I'll only have one there), I just won't have resistances. Which I may be okay against with TTar, Heatran, and Landorus-T. Funny thing is, I live in Indiana. Looks like a very interesting team, I just don't want to create a carbon copy. Mind telling me your Gardevoir's EV spread?

Also could I get some suggested EV spreads for TTar, Zapdos, and Landorus-T for this?