How did you get started with this RPS false dilemma? EVERY team has disadvantageous matchups, including (and especially) Baton Pass teams, where if you don't start the match off two steps ahead of your opponent you are going to waste 30 turns hopelessly dying.
I honestly don't know if you're disagreeing with me or agreeing with me (I guess the tone suggests some sort of disagreement...)
Did I not make it clear that Baton Pass teams -
especially baton pass teams - have severe RPS "syndrome"? Or are you saying this is "false"? RPS goes both ways, it's just the concept that the players don't have much control over the result of the match. In this case I feel Baton Pass is Rock in a society where most people with good / viable teams have two fingers...
jrrrrrr said:
Pure, unadulterated theorymon where your opponent makes every correct guess with a perfect team while you make every incorrect guess with a poorly-planned team. I've busted through plenty of attempted BP setups without having to go out of my way. It's really not hard.
It was my mistake to get into theorymon. I'm just going to stop here and say "I'm sure you have".
jrrrrrr said:
And Mr. Mime really isn't common on ADV BP teams, it only has one minimal advantage over Celebi (Soundproof) and that pathetic HP/Def and worse Speed doesn't make up for it.
Yea, I looked back at my BP teams and realized I didn't have Mime (it was from my UU BP teams). My mistake. I have definitely seen it before with Scizor though.
jrrrrrr said:
This isn't an unreasonable thing for an ADV team to have, especially since things like Focus Sash didn't exist.
No it isn't for a regular offensive-ish team. However for stall-ish teams you're going to have trouble finding one, nevermind two (if he sleeps one). Even for a standard team you will have trouble finding two, he's not THAT weak or slow, few powerhouses both outspeed and KO (all I can think of are Heracross / Medicham / Blaziken (lol) off the top of my head)
jrrrrrr said:
If your team loses after one boost, you should probably go back to the drawing board in the first place.
I want to avoid theorymon, really, but just think about this for a second. What Pokemon can beat another Pokemon that
counters it and has +2 Def/SpD before it sets up more?
jrrrr said:
Umbreon was used. "Mean Look" Baton Pass is a strategy I've definitely seen before.
jrrrrrr said:
I don't think asking for logs to back up your blatant exaggerations is unreasonable. If you think BP is so broken that it can instantly make terrible players own ADV champions without even thinking, prove it.
Alright I'll just get on the active ladder and play a bunch of matches....
Getting logs is reasonable thought, but it's not a reasonable expectation.
Jrrrrrr said:
That doesn't change the fact that many of the posts in that thread went out of their way to also say no to changing banlists of older generations...which is exactly what I said in my post...
Yea, but that's not actual justification. I'm sure you can see that. Additionally, some users actually posted "no don't change older gens" in that thread and then "yea change it" in this thread.
Jrrrrr said:
This entire thread exists because someone thought something *might* happen where a type of team could get "too popular", when this hasn't ever been an issue for the 6 years of Smogon ADV tournaments and tiering. I'm pretty sure that if something was broken in ADV, we would have found it by now.
Very few of the top players actually
enjoy using a BP team in RSE just because they automatically lose sometimes, but automatically win (no satisfaction from that) others. I don't think it's worth the risk to anyone and people know it doesn't make for a good competitive (ie skill involved) match. The concept of having an uncompetitive (as I define: involving a degree of skill) team is not exactly what we want to promote as a competitive community, at least from my point of view. It only really makes sense to just put in the 2 Pokemon Clause - this rule was put into some competitive tournaments already.
I guess this won't happen if there's an obvious majority of (adv??) players who don't want this to happen. I mean, the ADV players I talk to actually seem to be definitely on the "for banning" side...
EDIT: So in an attempt to make this issue go away can we just have a vote or something? I think, as usual, we are going to have another issue of players vs non-players, but whatever.