Project RU Theorymon

[fleurdyleurse]

Approved by cutiepie Molk
Credit to Zebraiken for idea
Credit to alexwolf for OP

RU Theorymon Project​

Welcome to the Theorymon Project of 6th gen's RU. Here, every few days, we will be discussing a list of 4 Pokemon, all of which will have little to zero viability in RU, and all of which have an additional move / ability / typing that they didn’t originally have. After all the theorymons have been sufficiently discussed, the voting will commence, which will last exactly one day.

How will this list of Pokemon be created each time? I will be accepting ideas from the community and I may also put some of my own ideas into a relatively small slate (4-5 Pokemon) each time. Every Theorymon that wins on each voting will be recorded in the archive, together with the name of the person who submitted it.

Rules:

Here are some general rules that each theorymon suggestion should follow:

• Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
• Only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the OU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
  
• You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon. Eg. Adding a Grass type to Florges, or changing Togekiss from Fairy / Flying to Fairy / (insert other type)
• Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.

Without any further ado, let's see our slate:

Registeel + Recover (killerkingler)
Reasoning:

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Recover Registeel because it fits easily as a 4th move on its standard set, lets it tank hits more than once throughout the battle.

Delphox + Flash Fire (alyssathegreat)
Reasoning:

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This will let Delphox switch in into Fire-type coverage and just spam Fire Blast

Lopunny + Fur Coat (The Fennec Fox)
Reasoning:

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Has great defensive capabilities, being only 3HKOed by Sharpedo's Crunch. Still has shit offenses.

Virizion + Aura Sphere (EonX-)
Reasoning:

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It's no secret that SD is their best set right now. This is due in large part to the fact that both have to rely on Focus Blast for special sets. This would give them more versatility by allowing them to run CM sets without relying on Focus Miss, though the power nerf to Aura Sphere in XY would still mean it's harder to sweep with their CM sets than it would be their SD sets.

Druddigon + Tough Claws (The Shellder Smuggler)
Reasoning:

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makes trop mad

Possible Discussion Points:

• How will the Theorymon affect the current metagame?
• Is the Theorymon more viable?

DISCUSS!

 

[g]

Mega Banette is already one of the best Pokemon in the Metagame. With its Prankster ability and decent support movepool with Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond, Thunder Wave and even Pain Split it becomes a terrifying supporter for offensive teams as it is able to stop any boosted sweeper.
The only problem is the lack of a strong spammable STAB to take advantage of its humongous base 165 Attack. Dark Typing would give it the strongest STAB Knock Off in the tier capable of OHKOing Slowking at Full Health and a really powerful Sucker Punch for its revenge killing duties. The new Fairy weakness is almost irrelevant as Aromatisse and Whimsicott are the only mons in the tier using that kind of moves. Banette will appreciate the new Dark Neutrality and it will become the premiere Knock Off switch in and Hitmonlee counter on offensive teams.
Priority Taunt and typing more suited to take on spinners will probably make it a fantastic mon in Sticky Web teams that will also appreciate the strong STAB priority move now it has access to.
Aromatisse will run a Physically Defensive spread more often to better check Banette and 2HKO with Moonblast and Zoroark will start to run more Specially Offensive spread althought them togheter can form a really powerful Dark Spam duo.
With Dark added Banette has a more difficult time switching into Cresselia as it is now 2HKOed by MoonBlast but that is a small price to pay for all the good benefits.

 

[Antihaxxer]

Just to be clear, the Dark type comes with Mega Evolution or normal Banette is also Ghost / Dark ? It doesn't change a lot, but with Dark type, he has more problem to switch in random Fairy attacks.

Like galbia said, with Dark type, he gains neutrality to Ghost / Dark attacks, and he has a very good Sucker Punch or Knock Off. He doesn't need Ghost stab anymore, due to somewhat redundance, but it still has 4MSS ... Destiny Bond is mandatory, T-Wave/W-o-W too, he wants both SP and KO but can't afford both, especially with Pain Slip has only recovery move and Taunt

 

[rob.]

"Don't suggest changes about Pokemon that are already pretty viable in [RU]"

I don't think Mega Banette qualifies since it's already useful. Also change all the OU's to RU's.

I believe giving Gourgeist-S an ability that's useful like Shadow-Tag would have a positive effect on the meta. Now it can trap, cripple, and in some cases sub/seed KO threats like Cobalion, Escavalier, Rhyperior, Slowking, and more. The list goes on.

 

[g]

Just to be clear, the Dark type comes with Mega Evolution or normal Banette is also Ghost / Dark ? It doesn't change a lot, but with Dark type, he has more problem to switch in random Fairy attacks.

Like galbia said, with Dark type, he gains neutrality to Ghost / Dark attacks, and he has a very good Sucker Punch or Knock Off. He doesn't need Ghost stab anymore, due to somewhat redundance, but it still has 4MSS ... Destiny Bond is mandatory, T-Wave/W-o-W too, he wants both SP and KO but can't afford both, especially with Pain Slip has only recovery move and Taunt

I feel that the status move is only mandatory on more defensive teams as right now the best is Knock Off/Sucker/Destiny Bond and Either Shadow Claw or Taunt

 

[Ununhexium]

Damn I was going to start this but ibdidnt this it was a good idea yet.

To be honest I haven't really use mega banette. However, with dark typing,it would be a monster. Knock off spam in tandem with taunt/destiny bond and a filler could thrash teams. The only problems are the same that held it back before. No recovery (not even leftovers) outside of rest, and not the greatest bulk and speed. This aside, it would be an interesting Pokémon to use.

Will there be a ladder for this?

 

[fleurdyleurse]

It really won't be as broken as it seems. It'll get a weakness to Fairy, little to no resistances, no recovery, and 4MSS, I feel that this Theorymon isn't broken as it might seem.

Ununhexium we'll have to see how it develops

Also, yes, this theorymon technically breaks the rules but w/e, this was a mistake, we'll probably change it in 2-4 days

 

[g]

I forgot to mention that Pursuit will be an awesome option on Dark Type Meganette

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Mega Bannette is good already, shouldn't we work on pokemon that are not good?

But yeah this can definitely help Mega Banette out, giving it a spammable Knock Off is quite good if I must say so myself

 

[Expulso]

Some pros for Ghost / Dark Mega Banette:
- More spammable STAB Knock Off / Sucker Punch
- Only one weakness, to Fairy
- STAB Pursuit
- Able to take a hit from Pokemon like Sharpedo before Prankster goes into effect

Cons:
- Fairy weakness? idk
- nope this thing is godly

 

[Magnemite]

"Don't suggest changes about Pokemon that are already pretty viable in [RU]"

I don't think Mega Banette qualifies since it's already useful. Also change all the OU's to RU's.

I believe giving Gourgeist-S an ability that's useful like Shadow-Tag would have a positive effect on the meta. Now it can trap, cripple, and in some cases sub/seed KO threats like Cobalion, Escavalier, Rhyperior, Slowking, and more. The list goes on.

>Shadow Tag
>Positive effect on meta
wut

Anyway, I highly disagree with the OU theorymon thread's rule of only using mons that are below a certain rank in the viability rankings. Part of the reason I didn't like the OU theorymon thread very much is because most of the changes were to random Pokemon that were so unviable beforehand that the theorymon changes weren't nearly enough to make the theorymon interesting or good (looking at you, Poison / Electric Eelektross). It also invalidated a ton of really interesting theorymon ideas because they were about Pokemon above a certain rank, even if they were nowhere near game-breaking. That being said, randomly buffing top tier threats isn't the greatest idea. However, great Pokemon can still be interesting theorymons if they buff the Pokemon in roles outside of the usual ones that make them so good. For example, buffing Delphox offensively would be a bad idea, but buffing its abilities as a Wishpasser could still make for an interesting theorymon even though Delphox is already one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. Additionally, minor buffs to very good but not quite top tier Pokemon, such as Ghost / Dark Mega Banette, also make interesting theorymons.

 

[rob.]

>Shadow Tag
>Positive effect on meta
wut

Anyway, I highly disagree with the OU theorymon thread's rule of only using mons that are below a certain rank in the viability rankings. Part of the reason I didn't like the OU theorymon thread very much is because most of the changes were to random Pokemon that were so unviable beforehand that the theorymon changes weren't nearly enough to make the theorymon interesting or good (looking at you, Poison / Electric Eelektross). It also invalidated a ton of really interesting theorymon ideas because they were about Pokemon above a certain rank, even if they were nowhere near game-breaking. That being said, randomly buffing top tier threats isn't the greatest idea. However, great Pokemon can still be interesting theorymons if they buff the Pokemon in roles outside of the usual ones that make them so good. For example, buffing Delphox offensively would be a bad idea, but buffing its abilities as a Wishpasser could still make for an interesting theorymon even though Delphox is already one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. Additionally, minor buffs to very good but not quite top tier Pokemon, such as Ghost / Dark Mega Banette, also make interesting theorymons.

And adding a dark typing to Banette is positive?

By giving Gourgeist and less viable Pokemon like it useful abilities/typing's/moves it allows them to keep up with the tiers top threats or support teammates who may not be able to deal with certain threats. The ability doesn't have to be Shadow Tag, I just used that as an example of how it can be an effective Shadow Tag abuser. Gligar walling all my attacks? Gourgeist can trap and sub/seed stall. Cobalion is being a dick? Trap, burn, and sub/seed stall. It certainly won't be OP because there are plenty of Pokemon that can take care of Gourgeist, 5 of them are the top 8 most viable Pokemon. While what you're saying does make sense and the example you gave was pretty good, but in order to make Delphox a better wish-passer you would have to increase its defenses. Therefore making it an even bigger offensive threat. There aren't many ways (if any) you can alter the tiers top Pokemon without subsequently making them better in other ways.

 

[EonX]

The problem with Shadow Tag is that it kinda removes skill. If Gligar is walling you, how about running something that can beat it. If Cobalion is being a dick, how about you don't let it setup to +4 or whatever and do nothing to try and stop it. Shadow Tag is like that "I don't want to have to deal with this, so I'm just gonna trap and kill it" buttons. I've never really liked it and I just don't see how anything with Shadow Tag and some sort of decent viability on its own could be positive for the meta. Now, I'm not saying the Dark-typing for Mega-Bannette would be healthy either. That thing is already really good and giving it STAB on most of the moves it runs (Knock Off and Sucker Punch) just kinda borders insane imo. I'll try one if I may:

What if Virizion (and Cobalion for that matter) learned Aura Sphere?

It's no secret that SD is their best set right now. This is due in large part to the fact that both have to rely on Focus Blast for special sets. This would give them more versatility by allowing them to run CM sets without relying on Focus Miss, though the power nerf to Aura Sphere in XY would still mean it's harder to sweep with their CM sets than it would be their SD sets. And considering the large amount of legendary non-Fighting-types that learn Aura Sphere, how come the 4 legendaries that are Fighting-types (don't forget Keldeo and Terrakion in OU) can't learn Aura Sphere?

 

[Kevun]

The problem with Shadow Tag is that it kinda removes skill. If Gligar is walling you, how about running something that can beat it. If Cobalion is being a dick, how about you don't let it setup to +4 or whatever and do nothing to try and stop it. Shadow Tag is like that "I don't want to have to deal with this, so I'm just gonna trap and kill it" buttons. I've never really liked it and I just don't see how anything with Shadow Tag and some sort of decent viability on its own could be positive for the meta. Now, I'm not saying the Dark-typing for Mega-Bannette would be healthy either. That thing is already really good and giving it STAB on most of the moves it runs (Knock Off and Sucker Punch) just kinda borders insane imo. I'll try one if I may:

What if Virizion (and Cobalion for that matter) learned Aura Sphere?

It's no secret that SD is their best set right now. This is due in large part to the fact that both have to rely on Focus Blast for special sets. This would give them more versatility by allowing them to run CM sets without relying on Focus Miss, though the power nerf to Aura Sphere in XY would still mean it's harder to sweep with their CM sets than it would be their SD sets. And considering the large amount of legendary non-Fighting-types that learn Aura Sphere, how come the 4 legendaries that are Fighting-types (don't forget Keldeo and Terrakion in OU) can't learn Aura Sphere?

Honestly, I don't believe it will redeem the special sets much. Considering that Virizion will likely still run the same coverage moves with a CM set, Giga Drain/Aura Sphere/HP Rock, it still has almost the exact same counters and checks as the SD set, except weaker due to the lower BP of the moves and CM setting up slower. Furthermore, although Virizion's typing is great in certain scenarios, it still gives it a 6 weaknesses, including a 4x weakness to Flying. This, coupled with its poor physical bulk makes a CM set extremely hard to pull off, even if it can run Aura Sphere. I guess it would help its cause, but the change is so minor that it won't really be affecting much.

 

[Ununhexium]

HELLO EVERYBODY!!!

I want to remind all that we are discussing Mega Banette with a Dark secondary type. Not Aura Sphere Virizion/Cobalion or Shadow Tag Gourgeist. Those may come another day, but not now.

 

[cacturne]

It really won't be as broken as it seems. It'll get a weakness to Fairy, little to no resistances, no recovery, and 4MSS, I feel that this Theorymon isn't broken as it might seem.

Ununhexium we'll have to see how it develops

Also, yes, this theorymon technically breaks the rules but w/e, this was a mistake, we'll probably change it in 2-4 days

It does have recovery albeit unreliable and hard to fit in in the form of pain split. just sayin

 

[TROP]

>Dark Mega Banette

And pls no to the "no theorymon for already good mons" thing/rule. Those should be perfectly fine unless it is something that is obviously retarded like Sheer Force/Magic Guard Delphox.

 

[Expulso]

What do you guys think about Levitate Doublade? It would, in my opinion, make this far more viable than it already is, letting it check Rhyperior, be an absolute full stop to most Gligars (can you say "setup bait"), and be much easier to put on a team due to not stacking Ground weaknesses with other offensive threats like Emboar and Rhyperior.

 

[rob.]

There's barely enough defensive Pokemon to handle XY's power creep and we're making strong mons stronger (in theory). Wot?

 

[Turtleye]

Fleur, are we supposed to talk about a certain Theorymon for like 3-4 days or can we discuss others in the meantime.

Anyway, Ghost/Dark Banette seems p. cool to me, basically it is offensive sableye. 165 Atk hits hard, and Ghost/Dark is amazing coverage. Knock Off/Shadow Claw/Taunt/Detsiny Bond or Thunder Wave seems like a pretty threatening, being able to hit for a fuckton of damage as wel as pooping on stall and giving a last resort against stuff like Unburden Slurpuff or +2 Omastar

 

[fleurdyleurse]

Fleur, are we supposed to talk about a certain Theorymon for like 3-4 days or can we discuss others in the meantime.

Anyway, Ghost/Dark Banette seems p. cool to me, basically it is offensive sableye. 165 Atk hits hard, and Ghost/Dark is amazing coverage. Knock Off/Shadow Claw/Taunt/Detsiny Bond or Thunder Wave seems like a pretty threatening, being able to hit for a fuckton of damage as wel as pooping on stall and giving a last resort against stuff like Unburden Slurpuff or +2 Omastar

Do the XY OU format.

Molk Edit: unless the discussion is really really dead stay focused on Mega Banette
Fleur edit: HI GUYS WE ARE CHANGING THE SLATE ON THE 28th MAY
VM/PM ME YOUR IDEAS, THE C+ RULE HAS BEEN REMOVED
ALSO, THIS IS THE NEW FORMAT:
Have 2-3 Theorymons
Discuss about them
Vote for your preferred choice via PM

tysm

 

[fleurdyleurse]

Update:
We shall not vote but rather just discuss our slate to not flood my inbox/the thread.
K new slate:

• Strong Jaw Sharpedo (The Shellder Smuggler)
• Brave Bird Fletchinder (Shaymin :D)
• Levitate Doublade (Expulso)
• Slack Off Granbull (Don Honchkrorleone)

Discuss!

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Might as well say why I chose Tough Jaw Sharpedo

Ok, well, Sharpedo is basically like 75% mouth and 25% actually body, so I'm pretty sure on some level this makes some kind of sense. Anyways, I think that STAB boosted Crunch by Strong Jaw will certainly be something to worry about. It misses out on Speed Boost, which kinda does give it a huge niche, but it's already rather fast, and the power gotten from Strong Jaw will pretty much OHKO anything that doesn't resist. And of course, Ice Fang also gets a very good boost, allowing it to actually be used after the boost from its weak base power.

 

[-Flygon-]

Might as well say why I chose Tough Jaw Sharpedo

Ok, well, Sharpedo is basically like 75% mouth and 25% actually body, so I'm pretty sure on some level this makes some kind of sense. Anyways, I think that STAB boosted Crunch by Strong Jaw will certainly be something to worry about. It misses out on Speed Boost, which kinda does give it a huge niche, but it's already rather fast, and the power gotten from Strong Jaw will pretty much OHKO anything that doesn't resist. And of course, Ice Fang also gets a very good boost, allowing it to actually be used after the boost from its weak base power.

Strong Jaw sounds like a perfect ability for Sharpedo, if it got the moves to abuse it. I would definitely back this if it got the elemental fangs, but an ability to boost one move is not worth giving up Speed Boost, which is Sharpedo's claim to fame. :/

I personally like Levitate Doublade, which makes up for the lack of Air Balloon that is normally held by Aegislash, while keeping the Eviolite. Rhyperior can't touch it unless it runs Crunch, and Gligar can't do SHIT to it. Slack Off Granbull is p. good, goes well with bulky Intimidate sets, so I like it too. Brave Bird Fletchinder would be as annoying here as it is in OU, but without the 4x weakness to rocks, so it would be fairly potent. It does have an attack stat close to its evolution, so it could potentially wreak havoc on many Pokemon here.

Welp, those are my preliminary opinions, but feel free to take it with a grain of salt, I am new to RU.

 

[fleurdyleurse]

K, my thoughts now.
Strong Jaws Sharpedo does seem quite lackluster, although let's see the calcs.
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 242-285 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 250-296 (77.6 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
zzz
Not very good, but could find some use with Braviary and SR.
Levitate Doublade= God.
252+ Atk Gligar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 78-92 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 97.1% chance to 4HKO
gg no re
Of course, Moltres and Magmortar and other special attackers still give it trouble.
BB Fletchinder seems interesting, but having higher power and CB/LO is about it, but it still could wreck stuff.
Lastly, Slack Off Granbull, as TheZokeShipper mentioned, will work well on bulky intimidate sets, but does it really have the time to Slack Off?