OU Sableye

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
QC: PK Gaming / Jukain / p2
GP: Kris

[OVERVIEW]
* Mega Sableye has solid 50 / 125 / 115 bulk.
* Mega Sableye's ability, Magic Bounce, deflects entry hazards and other status moves, completely neutering Pokemon like Ferrothorn.
* A Dark / Ghost typing allows it to deal with common attackers such as Mega Alakazam, as well as giving it some capacity for spinblocking.
* Mega Sableye is hurt by new turn mechanics for Mega Evolution, which prevent it from using its priority Will-O-Wisp and Mega Evolving on the same turn.
* It's useful on stall teams for its entry hazard control and ability to shut down more passive Pokemon.
* It has reliable recovery with Recover, but it being a bit on the slow side makes it more difficult to maintain HP.
* Prankster's situational utility can allow it to postpone Mega Evolving in rare circumstances, although the Prankster nerf making Prankster moves fail against Dark-types makes this typically unwise.
* The growth of Fairy-types is not so good for Mega Sableye, as it can typically do very little to them.

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Protect / Fake Out
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Recover
item: Sablenite
ability: Prankster
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Protect gives Mega Sableye protection for the first turn to activate Magic Bounce and scout for moves against other Pokemon.
* Fake Out can ensure that Sableye Mega Evolves against threats such as Clefable and Tapu Koko and gives some chip damage over the course of the game, but it can't hit Tapu Lele or other grounded Pokemon under Psychic Terrain.
* Knock Off is a decent STAB move with solid utility, as it removes foes' items.
* Will-O-Wisp can spread burns to cripple physical attackers and prevent many of them from getting into a position where they can KO Mega Sableye.
* Recover restores Mega Sableye's HP and allows it to stick around for the duration of the match.

Set Details
========

* Prankster is infinitely better than Stall, as it can have some situational use to burn an attacker before Mega Evolving.
* The EVs and a Careful nature promote good mixed bulk and avoid the 2HKO from uninvested Heatran's Magma Storm; more Special Defense EVs can be used to avoid the 2HKO from offensive Heatran, Life Orb Gengar's Shadow Ball, and Life Orb Tornadus-T's Hurricane.
* Mega Sableye can run a spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD with a Bold nature for maximum physical bulk to handle some threats such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T better.
* Sablenite allows Sableye to Mega Evolve and acquire enhanced defenses and Magic Bounce.

Usage Tips
========

* Use Protect or Fake Out turn one against most Pokemon to guarantee that Sableye can Mega Evolve.
* Switch into Pokemon such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn to bounce back entry hazards and take advantage of their passiveness.
* Use Recover often to keep Mega Sableye out of KO ranges, but use it within the context of the game; for example, if the game is going to end up being a long, drawn out one, then use it more sparingly than against a more offensive team.
* Use Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp when Mega Sableye gets free turns to annoy and cripple opposing Pokemon.
* Will-O-Wisp is very important to use against physical attackers that can possibly set entry hazards or use setup moves.
* Mega Sableye should only be used to switch into Pokemon when it can comfortably shut them down and not get itself worn down significantly, as its primary goal throughout the match will often be for entry hazard control. Since some prior damage on it can be the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, one should rely on Mega Sableye's teammates to shut down threats whenever possible, instead of risking Mega Sableye being worn down.

Team Options
========

* Mega Sableye is almost always going to be used on stall or balanced teams as a form of entry hazard control and anti-support.
* Skarmory is an excellent partner, as it can handle common Stealth Rock setters that can bust through Mega Sableye such as Earth Plate Landorus-T, Swords Dance Garchomp, and Mold Breaker Excadrill.
* Specially bulky Pokemon such as Chansey and Amoonguss take care of most Fairy-types and other wallbreakers such as Keldeo and Manaphy.
* Mega Sableye can spinblock, so entry hazard setters such as Ferrothorn and the aforementioned Skarmory can set up Spikes and Stealth Rock and have an easier time maintaining them.
* Any Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, such as Volcarona and Kyurem-B, can benefit from Mega Sableye's presence on balance teams.
* Clefable and Quagsire also mesh well with Mega Sableye due to Unaware halting most setup sweepers' attempts to smash through it.
* Cleric support with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy from Chansey or Clefable is nice in the case of Sludge Bomb poisons or Lava Plume burns.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* A Calm Mind set with Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse can be difficult to take down due to Mega Sableye's access to Magic Bounce, but it is typically not as useful as an anti-entry hazard utility set.
* Foul Play can stop setup sweepers such as Mega Charizard X from setting up on Mega Sableye, but it should be used with care, as some Pokemon can simply attack and weaken Mega Sableye without the need for setting up, so attempting to burn them beforehand or switching into a direct counter are important alternatives.
* Toxic is an alternate status move to cripple opposing Pokemon with, but it is generally not as useful as burn's Attack-dropping effect.
* Metal Burst is a heterodox option that can be used to net KOs against Pokemon that attack Mega Sableye and do not KO it, but Mega Sableye typically wants to keep itself healthy to reliably block status and entry hazards for its team.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fairy-types**: Fairy-types such as Clefable, Tapu Lele, Magearna, and Tapu Fini all take paltry damage from Knock Off, and Clefable and Tapu Fini are immune to being worn down by burn damage and can also easily KO or severely weaken Mega Sableye.

**Fire-types**: Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Volcanion, and Heatran can all switch in to Will-O-Wisp and Knock Off and can either set up or force Mega Sableye out. However, Volcanion and Heatran do not want to lose their respective items, so they must be wary of Knock Off.

**Strong Wallbreakers**: Pokemon such as Xurkitree, Manaphy, Lum Berry Garchomp, and Swords Dance Landorus-T can set up and run right through Mega Sableye, though none like losing their items. Physically attacking Pokemon must also be aware of Will-O-Wisp, which can instantly cripple them.

**Stallbreakers**: Pokemon such as Gliscor and Tapu Fini can often get by Mega Sableye by virtue of their immunity to status, being capable of capitalizing on Mega Sableye's inability to deal damage, and having moves that can either turn Mega Sableye into setup fodder or put it in bad situations such as Swords Dance or Nature's Madness.
 
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I definitely think Protect deserves a primary slash over Fake Out

The main point of Fake Out is that it lets you Mega Evolve t1 against fairies so you can switch in Sableye to bounce hazards later without needing to find a spare turn to mega evolve. But Tapu Lele, one of the most common fairies in the tier, has Fake Out immunity, so it forces you out. Kind of defeats the point.
 

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
I definitely think Protect deserves a primary slash over Fake Out

The main point of Fake Out is that it lets you Mega Evolve t1 against fairies so you can switch in Sableye to bounce hazards later without needing to find a spare turn to mega evolve. But Tapu Lele, one of the most common fairies in the tier, has Fake Out immunity, so it forces you out. Kind of defeats the point.
Wonderful observation, I forgot it has an immunity to FO; I'll slash it first.
 

HotFuzzBall

fuzzy-chan \(ㆁヮㆁ✿)
is an Artist
  • Fake Out can ensure Mega Evolution against threats such as Clefable and Mega Gardevoir and give some chip damage over the course of the game, but can't hit Tapu Lele
I think you should say you can't hit mons affected by Psychic Terrain rather than just Tapu Lele.

edit- You could also mention the surge of new Fairy-types (Tapus, Magearna, Primarina, Alolan Ninetales, etc.) hurts Sableye's usage (idk the word I'm looking for). Also the nerf to burn and Prankster could use a mention I feel.
 
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Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
Doesn't Prankster take care of that little problem?
It's moveset is already cemented as is, and it cannot find a proper slot for taunt. This also assumes Prankster is in effect which implies not MEvo'ing, but I guess I can slash an annoyer set in OO.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
What little viability vanilla Sableye (which I assume you're talking about for an annoyer set) had, it died with the Prankster nerf. When Weavile is able to safely switch in on you, there's a problem.
 
What little viability vanilla Sableye (which I assume you're talking about for an annoyer set) had, it died with the Prankster nerf. When Weavile is able to safely switch in on you, there's a problem.
Yeah that does suck. Thankfully though it can Mega evolve to get around that when necessary, but still...
 
Something worth noting about M-Sableye, as well as stall as a playstyle in general, is that some of the best wallbreaking Megas (Gardevoir, Diancie) are currently unavailable by any means. Doesn't this make both M-Sableye and stall more viable? While I understand that mons like the tapus and Magearna give Sableye itself problems, none of them save maybe Fini and Koko can reliably break stall as a whole. The former lacks reliable recovery and the latter is frail to a fault. Lele can also break stall, but it misses the 2HKO on max HP/DEF Chansey if it doesn't hold Life Orb/Specs, both of which limit its longevity/offensive potential against stall, respectively.
 
Something worth noting about M-Sableye, as well as stall as a playstyle in general, is that some of the best wallbreaking Megas (Gardevoir, Diancie) are currently unavailable by any means. Doesn't this make both M-Sableye and stall more viable? While I understand that mons like the tapus and Magearna give Sableye itself problems, none of them save maybe Fini and Koko can reliably break stall as a whole. The former lacks reliable recovery and the latter is frail to a fault. Lele can also break stall, but it misses the 2HKO on max HP/DEF Chansey if it doesn't hold Life Orb/Specs, both of which limit its longevity/offensive potential against stall, respectively.
I see your point, but Psyshock Lele and Tapu Bulu destroy Chansey. And I'm pretty sure Koko and Fini can at least 2HKO Sableye with the other Tapus and Magearna probably getting a KO too
 
I see your point, but Psyshock Lele and Tapu Bulu destroy Chansey. And I'm pretty sure Koko and Fini can at least 2HKO Sableye with the other Tapus and Magearna probably getting a KO too
Sure, they can 2HKO M-Sableye, but all of them except Physical Koko and Bulu invite Chansey in, especially if Lele, again isn't holding specs/LO. If it is, then it and Bulu still get walled by Skarmory. If they have Quagsire, then Koko gets walled without Grass Knot. The point I'm trying to make here is that without a sufficiently adept stallbreaker like Mega Gardevoir, M-Sableye and stall as a playstyle in general can be used without less worry that it'll face one of its best answers.
 
Sure, they can 2HKO M-Sableye, but all of them except Physical Koko and Bulu invite Chansey in, especially if Lele, again isn't holding specs/LO. If it is, then it and Bulu still get walled by Skarmory. If they have Quagsire, then Koko gets walled without Grass Knot. The point I'm trying to make here is that without a sufficiently adept stallbreaker like Mega Gardevoir, M-Sableye and stall as a playstyle in general can be used without less worry that it'll face one of its best answers.
Yeah, now I get it I guess, I simply just cant see what Garde has over Lele, maybe the flexibilty so switch moves but idk
 

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
I think this is QC ready, I hope I'm not missing anything too important coming out of an initial WIP write-up.
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
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This is really solid, and I only have a few remarks / concerns.

* EVs and a Careful nature promote good mixed bulk and can deal with some Heatran, more SpD EVs can be used to handle it better and deal with Gengar and Tornadus-Therian
Can you go into more detail?

*Skarmory is an excellent partner as it can handle common Stealth Rock setters that can bust through Mega Sableye such as Earth Plate Landorus and Swords Dance Garchomp
Mention Mold Breaker Excadrill for its ability to bypass Magic Bounce. You should mention Swords Dance FlyiumZ Landorus-T instead of Earth Plate since its more relevant.

**Fire-types**: Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Heatran can all switch in to Will-O-Wisp and Knock Off, and can either set up or force Mega Sableye out.
Volcanion probably deserves mention too.

1/3
 
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Jukain

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* Fake Out turn 1 against most Pokemon to guarantee Magic Bounce and more bulk
mention protect since it's the primary slash

make sure you communicate in usage tips that sableye should not be relied on for switching into threats; it will get worn down and the most important thing it can do is make sure sableye stays healthy so hazards are off the field

this is good, 2/3
 

dhelmise

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Social Media Head
* Solid 50/125/115 defenses after Mega Evolution
* Mega evolution
[OVERVIEW]

* Mega Sableye has solid 50 /125/ 115 bulk. (AP)
* Mega Sableye
's ability, (AC) Magic Bounce, (AC) deflects entry hazards and other status moves, completely neutersing Pokemon like Ferrothorn. (AP)
* A Dark / Ghost typing allows it to deal with a few common attackers such as Mega Alakazam, (AC) giving it some capacity for spinblocking.
* Mega Sableye is hurt by the new turn mechanics for Mega Evolution. (AP) (why? also elaborate on what these mechanics are)
* It's useful on stall teams for its entry hazard control and ability to shut down more passive Pokemon. (AP)
* It has reliable recovery in Recover, but it being a bit on the slow side makes it more difficult to maintain decent HP. (AP)
* Prankster's situational utility can allow it to put off Mega Evolutionostpone Mega Evolving in rare circumstances, although the Prankster nerf regardingmaking Prankster moves failing against Dark-types makes this typically unwise. (AP)
* The growth of Fairy-types is not so good for itMega Sableye, (AC) as it can typically do very little to them. (AP)

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Protect / Fake Out
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Recover
item: Sablenite
ability: Prankster
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Protect gives youMega Sableye protection for the first turn to activate Magic Bounce and scout for moves against other Pokemon. (AP)
* Fake Out can ensure Mega Evolutionthat Sableye Mega Evolves against threats such as Clefable and Tapu Koko and gives some chip damage over the course of the game, but it can't hit Tapu Lele or other grounded Pokemon under Psychic Terrain. (AP)
* Knock Off is a decent STAB move with solid utility in removing opponents items, (AC) as it removes foes' items. (AP)
* Will-O-Wisp can spread burns to cripple physical attackers and prevent many physical attackersof them from getting into a position where they can KO Mega Sableye. (AP)
* Recover restores Mega Sableye's HP and allows it to stick around for the duration of the match. (AP)
(remove blank line)

Set Details
========

* Prankster is infinitely better than Stall, as it can have some situational use to burn an attacker before Mega Evolving. (AP)
* The EVs and a Careful nature promote good mixed bulk and avoid the 2HKO from uninvested Heatran's Magma Storm; more Special Defense EVs can be used to avoid the 2HKO from offensive Heatran, Life Orb Gengar's Shadow Ball, and Life Orb Tornadus-Therian's Hurricane. (AP)
* Mega Sableye can run a spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD with a Bold nature for maximum physical bulk to handle some threats such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T better. (AP)
* Sablenite allows Sableye to Mega Evolve and acquire enhanced defenses and the coveted Magic Bounce. (AP)

Usage Tips
========

* Use Protect or Fake Out turn 1one against most Pokemon to guarantee Magic Bounce and more bulkthat Sableye can Mega Evolve. (AP)
* Switch into Pokemon such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn to bounce back entry hazards and take advantage of their passiveness. (AP)
* Use Recover often to keep Mega Sableyourself out of KO ranges, but use it within the context of the game; i.e if it's gonna end up a long, drawn out gamfor example, (AC) if the game is going to end up being a long, drawn-out one, then use it more sparingly then van versus a more offensive team. (AP)
* Use Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp when you getMega Sableye gets free turns to annoy and cripple opposing Pokemon. (AP)
* Will-O-Wisp is very important to use against physical attackers whothat can possibly set entry hazards or usesetup moves. (AP)
* Mega Sableye should only be used to switch into Pokemon when it can comfortably shut them down and not get itself worn down significantly, as its primary goal throughout the match will often be for entry hazard control. Since some prior damage on it can be the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO, one should rely on Mega Sableye's teammates to shut down threats whenever possible, instead of risking Mega Sableye to being worn down.

Team Options
========

* AMega Sableye is almost always going to be used on full stall or balanced teams as a form of entry hazard control and anti-support. (AP)
* Skarmory is an excellent partner, (AC) as it can handle common Stealth Rock setters that can bust through Mega Sableye such as Earth Plate Landorus-T, Swords Dance Garchomp, and Mold Breaker Excadrill. (AP)
* Specially bulky Pokemon such as Chansey and Amoonguss take care of most Fairy-types and other wallbreakers such as Keldeo and Manaphy. (AP)
* Mega Sableye can spinblock, (AC) so entry hazard setters such as Ferrothorn and the aforementioned Skarmory can set up Spikes and Stealth Rock damage and have an easier time maintaining them. (AP)
* Any Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, (AC) such as Volcarona and Kyurem-B, (AC) can benefit from Mega Sableye's presence on balance teams, such as Volcarona and Kyurem-B. (AP)
* Clefable and Quagsire also mesh well with Mega Sableye due to Unaware halting most boosting sweepers attemptsetup sweepers' attempts to smash through it. (AP)
* Cleric support with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy from Chansey or Clefable is nice in the case of Sludge Bomb poisons or Lava Plume burns. (AP)
(remove blank line)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* A Calm Mind set with Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse can be difficult to take down due to Mega Sableye's access to Magic Bounce, but it is typically not as useful as an anti-entry hazard utility set. (AP)
* Foul Play can stop setup sweepers such as Mega Charizard X from setting up on Mega Sableye, but it should be used with care, (AC) as some Pokemon can simply attack and weaken Mega Sableye without the need for setting up, so attempting to burn them beforehand or switching into a direct counter are important alternatives. (AP)
* Toxic is an alternate status move to cripple opposing Pokemon with, but it is generally not as useful as Bburn's attack-dropping effect. (AP)
* Metal Burst is a heterodox option that can be used to net KOes against Pokemon that attack Mega Sableye and do not KO it, but Mega Sableye typically wants to keep itself healthy to reliably block status and entry hazards for its team.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fairy-types**: Fairy-types such as Clefable, Tapu Lele, Magearna, and Tapu Fini all take paltry damage from Knock Off, and in the case of Clefable and Tapu Fini, are immune to being worn down by burn damage, while and can also easily KOing or severely weakening Mega Sableye.

**Fire-types**: Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Volcanion, and Heatran can all switch into Will-O-Wisp and Knock Off, and can either set up or force Mega Sableye out. However, Volcanion and Heatran do not want to lose their respective items, (AC) so they must be wary of Knock Off.

**Strong Wallbreakers**: Pokemon such as Xurkitree, Manaphy, Lum Berry Garchomp, and Swords Dance Landorus-T can booset up and run right through Mega Sableye, though none like havlosing their items lost. Physically basedattacking Pokemon must be also be aware of Will-O-Wisp, which can instantly cripple them.

**Stallbreakers**: Pokemon such as Gliscor and Tapu Fini can often get by Mega Sableye by virtue of their immunity to status, being capable of capitalizing on Mega Sableye's inability to doeal damage, and having moves that can either turn Mega Sableye into setup fodder or put it in bad situations such as Swords Dance or Nature's Madness.

not stamping this yet, Always! tag me after you implement this so i can look over it yer
 
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