Scizor (Specially Defensive Sword Dance)

[sora13]

Extremely surprised this set isn't on site already.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/scizor

Scizor @ Iron Plate / Leftovers
Adamant
220 HP / 80 Atk / 20 Spe / 188 SDef for Iron Plate and Lefties
232 HP / 96 Atk / 176 SpD / 4 Spe for Life Orb
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Brick Break/ Bug Bite
-Roost

Why this set deserves to be on site:
-Can easily switch on many bulky waters, bulky grounds, and generic walls(think Blissey) and use them as set-up fodder
-alternating between roost and sword dance, can easily get +6 against said walls because on average their attacks only do about 35%
-is not outclassed by other physical sweepers because of its impressive bulk and the ability to Roost off any damage which sd luke and sd infernape cannot do
-this is different from the sd scizor on site because they play very differently, one tries to set-up one sd and sweep from there, while this one uses its lasting bulk and roost to possibly go to +6 and take the opponent down with powerful Bullet Punches
-can wall many imposing threats such as Starmie and Celebi better because of its increased special bulk

Additional Comments:
-EVs allow Scizor to KO Azelf after one SD, the rest were thrown into HP and special defense. Spd EVs allow Scizor to outspeed Vaporeon and CB Scizor. also hits lefties number.
-Brick Break is useful if you dont have magnezone on your team, but bug bite is also good against the bulky waters and other various pokemon where Bullet Punch's power simply will not do
-I find that Scizor can generally survive ScarfZone's Hp Fire at full health, however I am not sure. +2 Brick Break will OHKO him back.
-Iron Plate gives Scizor's Bullet Punch some much needed power, while Leftovers gives extra healing. Life Orb is also usable, but isnt recommended because the lost health is detrimental to his ability to take hits and set-up. Iron Plate is the preferred item.

Counters and teammates:
-Heatran, Skarmory, and possibly Swampert can take on this set without much trouble as Heatran can simply Fire Blast while the latter can phaze him out. Zapdos and Rotom-h also threaten him, as well as restalk gyara.
-Ironically, Heatran can be a valuable partner to Scizor as it can take out Skarmory and lure both Hetran and Swampert with the HeaTrap set on-site. Magnezone can also trap Heatran and SKarmory and lure Swampert.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Count the EVs again, please.

 

[sora13]

Count the EVs again, please.

fixed

 

[DarXidE]

i use a set almost exactly like this but with different ev's :o its great

 

[mtr]

Well, it used to be on site. And then Salamence/Latias got banned. Not sure if it's still viable, but it has been essayed successfully by Legacy Raider, among many others.

 

[sora13]

Well, it used to be on site. And then Salamence/Latias got banned. Not sure if it's still viable, but it has been essayed successfully by Legacy Raider, among many others.

It's still quite viable I assure you. The one that used to be onsite wasn't as defensive as this version.

 

[Shizzle]

I have always used a bulky scizor, however I still think you need some EVs in speed >.>

 

[remlabmez]

Id rather just see a bulky set written into AC

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Id rather just see a bulky set written into AC

 

[panamaxis]

I dunno SDS and remlabmez, can you elaborate on why you think this only warrants an AC mention and not a seperate analysis because it seems to me like they would play very differently.

 

[(makeup)]

+6 of any of it's moves don't even have a chance to OHKO Zapdos, While 252 Atk evs has a small chance to kills zapdos with bug bite (89.3% - 105.2%). If not, zapdos will make you switch out and lose your +6 attack. This might be a little better in ubers, but there already is a defensive set for it.

 

[Despotar]

+6 of any of it's moves don't even have a chance to OHKO Zapdos, While 252 Atk evs has a small chance to kills zapdos with bug bite (89.3% - 105.2%). If not, zapdos will make you switch out and lose your +6 attack. This might be a little better in ubers, but there already is a defensive set for it.

Every set has counters. Do you not use normal Scizor in fear or Zapdos?
It's not all that much better against it. Having one large counter isn't enough reason to not use it.
But, I agree you should add Zapdos to counters.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Zapdos, Rotom-H and Gyarados deserve mentions as counters, definitely.

SD Scizor isn't like normal CB Scizor because it can't just U-Turn out to weaken its counters - that's why I like offensive SD variants, because they have the power to fulfil revenging and scouting duties and then can sweep late-game. Honestly, the only reason to really use bulky variants of sweepers is if they can also fill a defensive role (see Gyarados), and with Mence/Latias gone I don't think Scizor does that well enough.

 

[Nosferalto]

252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Sp Def

If I recall correctly, when you invest 252 EVs in HP on Scizor, you would be maximizing the amount of damage taken by entry hazards so I would stick with 248 HP and chuck the 4 EVs into Atk.

 

[tobi10]

I personally think that 220 HP / 80 Atk / 20 Spe / 188 SDef is a better spread for this Scizor. It outspeeds CB Scizor and Vaporeon, it still OHKOs Azelf after a boost and hits a Lefties number.

You can mention that Bait Tar and Kingdra are excellent partners to this set, since Tyranitar can take out Pokes that wall Scizor like Rotom-A and Skarmory while Kingdra sets up on Heatran, Infernape and defensive Zapdos. Nice set, good luck!

 

[Setsuna]

I'm with panamaxis on this one.

To the poster: can you please show some damage calculations that this particular Scizor scores on certain Pokemon after a Swords Dance? Fundamentally, I'd like to see calcs involving possible scenarios that SD Scizor can face on a regular basis.

 

[Delko]

The current Scizor analysis already has a bulky spread in it: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe.
What does this spread have over that bulky spread?

 

[sora13]

Just to demonstrate how easy it is to set-up on bulky waters:
Vaporeon's Surf does 39.4% - 46.4 and that's the strongest surf from all the bulky waters. Again, alternate swords dance and roost and you are capable of getting +6 against almost any bulky water.



Against Gyarados: Scizor(if it has Bug Bite wins against Bulky Gyara most of the time(with SR up). If Gyara switches in as it sword dances, it's probably going to dragon dance, and a +1 Waterfall does 53.4% - 63% to Scizor. Meanwhile, assuming Scizor sword danced as gyara came in, Scizor can simply sword dance again as gyara DDs. Then Scizor can survive the following Waterfall and do 51%-61.6% with a +3 Bug Bite to gyarados and finish him off with a +3 bullet punch. However, Scizor does lose to rest talk variants.

Against Zapdos: Scizor loses as Bug Bite only does 30.3% - 35.8% to Zapdos.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll get up some more calc's later. Sorry!

 

[remlabmez]

The EV spread legendary 07 mentioned is probably the way to go, and why I feel this should just go on ac? I used scizor on my ST6 team with massive bulk, it plays just a little differently with the ability to roost off some damage. I just don't feel this warrants a whole analysis dedicated to it when you can just slap this EV spread and AC and describe in a sentence or two whats its capable of.

We know what SD scizor does, add roost and some bulk you are given the ability to setup on some bulky waters, and there is no wall other than blissey I can think that scizor just sets up in his face as posted in the OP. Also SD scizor doesnt wall stuff like starmie, you take a huge chunk of life just trying to swtich into a hydro. I don't get why you posted this in your OP without even running calcs

 

[RaikouLover]

Thissssss set needs its own set. Every other sweeper gets "Offensive" and "Bulky" so why shouldn't Scizor? Roost does nothing for Scizor if you don't EV it correctly, and its entire approach is different. This is what I used when using Scizor:

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Superpower / Brick Break
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb / Leftovers / (Shed Shell, Iron Plate AC)
nature: Adamant
evs: 232 HP / 96 Atk / 176 SpD / 4 Spe (whatever the non speed creep number)

Stats: 399 HP (Life Orb), 352 Atk (Bonus Point), 240 SpD


-Life Orb really makes a substantial power difference. Superpower is very good when setting up multiple boosts.. going from +4 to +3 isn't nearly as bad as +2 to +1. The idea is you set up a few Swords Dances on shit like Vaporeon than Slam them for a OHKO with Superpower. Without Life Orb you need 2 Dances just to 2HKO with Brick Break. There is a BIG power difference between LO Superpower and non-Life Orb Brick Break (+2 LO Superpower with this does 68-80% to SpDef Skarm for example), in addition to OHKOing Mag / Heatran switch ins with a bit of damage and strengthening your Bullet Punch to OHKO Gengar.

Plus, there are a few options the current offensive SD Scizor could use anyway that haven't been explored (Like Pursuit and Jolly nature.. what what???)

 

[sora13]

Thissssss set needs its own set. Every other sweeper gets "Offensive" and "Bulky" so why shouldn't Scizor? Roost does nothing for Scizor if you don't EV it correctly, and its entire approach is different. This is what I used when using Scizor:

[SET]
name: Bulky Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Superpower / Brick Break
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb / Leftovers / (Shed Shell, Iron Plate AC)
nature: Adamant
evs: 232 HP / 96 Atk / 176 SpD / 4 Spe (whatever the non speed creep number)

Stats: 399 HP (Life Orb), 352 Atk (Bonus Point), 240 SpD


-Life Orb really makes a substantial power difference. Superpower is very good when setting up multiple boosts.. going from +4 to +3 isn't nearly as bad as +2 to +1. The idea is you set up a few Swords Dances on shit like Vaporeon than Slam them for a OHKO with Superpower. Without Life Orb you need 2 Dances just to 2HKO with Brick Break. There is a BIG power difference between LO Superpower and non-Life Orb Brick Break (+2 LO Superpower with this does 68-80% to SpDef Skarm for example), in addition to OHKOing Mag / Heatran switch ins with a bit of damage and strengthening your Bullet Punch to OHKO Gengar.

Plus, there are a few options the current offensive SD Scizor could use anyway that haven't been explored (Like Pursuit and Jolly nature.. what what???)

I'll mention that spread and associate it with the use of Life ORb.

 

[Setsuna]

To the poster: can you please show some damage calculations that this particular Scizor scores on certain Pokemon after a Swords Dance? Fundamentally, I'd like to see calcs involving possible scenarios that SD Scizor can face on a regular basis.

@sora13: read the quote again please.

 

[sora13]

Aright so I've come up against a sudden death in the family and I am unable complete the analysis due to this so can someone please finsih the analysis for me if they can? It would be helpful.

 

[RaikouLover]

I can do that once I finish with other analysis.

 

[Setsuna]

Given this scenario, I'm going to lock this thread.

RaikouLover: feel free to open a new thread to QC this Scizor or the one that you posted a few posts back.