Sinnoh's starters are the stars! (OU RMT)

[sora13]

Hello Smogonites, I've been working on this team for about a month or so, and It's been doing good for me, however there are some areas I could improve on, so that's where I ask for your help. Edits in bold.





Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Jolly
252 HP/ 252 Spd /4 sp Def
-Spore
-Thunder Wave
-Stealth Rock
-Magic Coat

So basically, you start of by using Spore if it's something like a Metagross lead. As it breaks your focus sash, it's slept. Then you t-wave the switch in. Next you set up SR and die in most cases. By now, you have 1) two pokemon crippled and 2) SR up. Magic Coat is for status and taunt, and it reflects it back right where it came from. I don't know if this is a bug or not, but it even reflects status and taunt through a sub, which I find a great help for something like Breloom.


Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/96 Atk/148 Def/12 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Skarmory forms part of the first defensive core in my team. Skarmory serves as a good check against some of the most threatening pokemon that can sweep through this team. The set is pretty standard, but it is almost necessary to keep the stallish theme going in order to trick them into thinking this is a stall team. Spikes is probably the only reason I'm using Skarm. It helps Infernape get OHKOes on Hippowdon and Suicune, and guarantees the OHKOes on Tentacurel and Swampert. Empoleon also uses it to beat the fat pink eggholder. Anyways, this Skarmory has enough speed to outspeed the analysis Tyranitar so I can safely switch in and Roost before Tyranitar can hit me with a second Stone Edge.



Plasma (Rotom-h) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/170 Sp Def/88 SAtk
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Charge Beam

With this set, I can heal myself and not be a sitting duck like most walls. ROttm functions as my special wall and I copied this set straight over from Rotom's Smogon Analysis. Help Me With: EV spread. I suck at it. This looks like a reliable EV spread, and it seems to work. I also need a little help with the whole Rest and Sleep Talk thing. I needed a reliable way to heal and beat. That gives me two reliable STAB, and good coverage. But if I do decide to use the new moveset, then what should I change it to?


Empoleon(F)@Petaya Berry
Modest
Torrent
EVs-12hp/252SpA/12SpD/232spd
-Substitute
-Surf / Brine
-Grass Knot
-Agility

This guy is a good late game sweeper, as well as one of the stars of the show. Sub Petaya Empoleon is an excellent choice. This is how the set works. First, Empoleon comes in on something that is unable to OHKO or cripple it. This includes a variety of commonly used Pokemon such as Blissey without Thunder Wave, Suicune and Vaporeon. Once you get a free turn to set up, you Agility, bringing your speed to an impressive 438. You then Substitute until Petaya Berry activates, boosting Empoleon's already high 350 Special Attack to 525. Surf is boosted by STAB from 95 base power to 137 base power, then Torrent kicks in, boosting its base power to an amazing 208 base power. Even things that resist Water are still severly damaged. Empoleon resists the two most common Priority moves, Bullet Punch and Ice Shard, carrying a 4x resistance to each, meaning they won't even 2HKO an Empoleon's Substitute, while their users are OHKOed by Surf. There is a glitch for Brine in Shoddy(it doesn’t double in base power under 50% health), so I will keep on using Surf until it is fixed.




Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant
Technician
232 HP / 252 Atk / 22 Spe(testing 180 HP/252 Atk/80 Sp Def)
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Scizor takes care of the usual suspects that completely shut down Infernape such as Starmie, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Gengar….. you name it he OHKOes or puts the opponent in Infernape’s KO range. He works great as a trapper and for scouting giving me the advantage in tight situaitions. THe synergy with SD Infernape is too great to pass up.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Jolly
6 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge
-Close Combat
The second star of the show, SD Infernape has so much potential, I even think it's a better poke than SD Luke. A +2 Close Combat OHKOs Vaporeon with Stealth Rock, as well as OHKOing 252 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel 79% of the time with Stealth Rock. It OHKOs 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross, easily. Hurts the Rotom formes with Fire Punch. A lot of the time, when I SD, they switch to Salamence, Gyarados, or Zapdos. Big mistake. Stone Edge KOes them all with Intimidate factored in and no Stealth Rock needed. It needs more attacking power compared to SD Luke, but, half the time, they to switch two times because they think it's MixApe, giving him two SDs. SDApe has tons of surprise value, and it doesn't lack in power too much and is still faster.

 

[Lee]

Write your own description for CB Scizor...you've copy pasted that straight from my RMT. ._. I'll leave the thread open for now but if I find you've copied any of the other descriptions, it's gone.

 

[wildfire393]

SD Infernape is indeed a fearsome threat. Hippowdon is one of the few things that can even begin to wall it, and he will suffer badly in the process. My only other concern about him is his vulnerability to residual damage. Worst case scenario (3 Layers of Spikes, 2 of Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sandstorm), he takes 37.5% switching in + 6.25% to Sandstorm, 12.5% on the first turn to poison and Sandstorm, 28.75% on the second turn due to Poison, Sandstorm, and Life Orb, and he's already taken 85%. Even assuming your opponent hasn't dealt damage to him, if he attacked with Flare Blitz he's likely KO'd by the time he gets his first attack in. Even in a more reasonable scenario, he takes 12.5% to rocks 6.25% to Sandstorm, and then another 6.25 as he sets up his Swords Dance. With each attack dealing 16.25 to him, he's down 41.25% after 1 attack, 57.5% after 2, and 73.75 after 3. Additionally, any Pokemon you're going to be hitting with Flare Blitz is going to have at least as much HP as Infernape, meaning you're probably taking 30%+ recoil per hit, if not more. Killing Skarmory, for example, deals you 38%. Killing Celebi deals you closer to 45%. And killing Blissey will very nearly OHKO you back.

 

[sora13]

SD Infernape is indeed a fearsome threat. Hippowdon is one of the few things that can even begin to wall it, and he will suffer badly in the process. My only other concern about him is his vulnerability to residual damage. Worst case scenario (3 Layers of Spikes, 2 of Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sandstorm), he takes 37.5% switching in + 6.25% to Sandstorm, 12.5% on the first turn to poison and Sandstorm, 28.75% on the second turn due to Poison, Sandstorm, and Life Orb, and he's already taken 85%. Even assuming your opponent hasn't dealt damage to him, if he attacked with Flare Blitz he's likely KO'd by the time he gets his first attack in. Even in a more reasonable scenario, he takes 12.5% to rocks 6.25% to Sandstorm, and then another 6.25 as he sets up his Swords Dance. With each attack dealing 16.25 to him, he's down 41.25% after 1 attack, 57.5% after 2, and 73.75 after 3. Additionally, any Pokemon you're going to be hitting with Flare Blitz is going to have at least as much HP as Infernape, meaning you're probably taking 30%+ recoil per hit, if not more. Killing Skarmory, for example, deals you 38%. Killing Celebi deals you closer to 45%. And killing Blissey will very nearly OHKO you back.

I'm just a bit confused on what you're trying to say, are you implying that I need a rapid spinner or that I need to take off Flare Blitz? Make yourself crystal clear.

 

[blasphemy1]

Where's Torterra? lol

I don't think a Rapid Spinner is quite necessary on this team seeing as it is just bait for Rotom-A to switch in and sweep your team with Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball. However, I do think Flare Blitz should be taken off. I don't understand why it is necessary when after a SD Fire Punch or the less reliable Blaze Kick is OHKOing Skarmory, Celebi, etc. Close Combat is your main sweeping move, Fire Punch is just there for shit like Skarmory and Celebi who can take a Close Combat.

I think a DD Gyarados would fit well on this team, preferrably over Empoleon. I know your title says Sinnoh starters, but you aren't using Torterra, so you aren't fulfilling that anyways. DD Gyarados can switch into Hippowdon and some Gliscor with ease, set up, and sweep. Scizor handles its counters, Celebi and Starmie primarily, and luring Starmie out is a great use so you can take it out, then sweep with Infernape late game.

Other than that the team looks pretty solid.

 

[les gets]

I'm just a bit confused on what you're trying to say, are you implying that I need a rapid spinner or that I need to take off Flare Blitz? Make yourself crystal clear.

It's mostly up to you to interpret what he's saying and decide for yourself what changes you need to make.

The biggest thing I see about your team that needs fixing (other than this team doesn't have any real strategy) is the lack of special attacks. An Empoleon and a Rotom with two damaging attacks each probably isn't enough, so making your ape a mix one is a possibility.

 

[sora13]

Where's Torterra? lol

I don't think a Rapid Spinner is quite necessary on this team seeing as it is just bait for Rotom-A to switch in and sweep your team with Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball. However, I do think Flare Blitz should be taken off. I don't understand why it is necessary when after a SD Fire Punch or the less reliable Blaze Kick is OHKOing Skarmory, Celebi, etc. Close Combat is your main sweeping move, Fire Punch is just there for shit like Skarmory and Celebi who can take a Close Combat.

I think a DD Gyarados would fit well on this team, preferrably over Empoleon. I know your title says Sinnoh starters, but you aren't using Torterra, so you aren't fulfilling that anyways. DD Gyarados can switch into Hippowdon and some Gliscor with ease, set up, and sweep. Scizor handles its counters, Celebi and Starmie primarily, and luring Starmie out is a great use so you can take it out, then sweep with Infernape late game.

Other than that the team looks pretty solid.

I actually did try DDLO Gyrar, but it wasn't as easy to set up as Empoleon, nor did have the same power that Empoleon did. I'm testing Fire Punch right now, and I'll see how it does.

 

[wildfire393]

I'm just a bit confused on what you're trying to say, are you implying that I need a rapid spinner or that I need to take off Flare Blitz? Make yourself crystal clear.

I was mostly saying take off Flare Blitz. As stated, his weaker Physical Fire moves still do enough damage to the Pokemon you'd be using them on to get the KOs without taking yourself out in the process. And there are surprisingly few threats that you will run in to that resist Close Combat and take Stone Edge neutrally or resisted, but only take Neutral from Fire Punch, such that you'd want the extra damage output from Flare Blitz. The only ones that spring to mind are Ghosts such as Rotom-A, Gengar, and Dusknoir and Psychics such as Alakazam, Azelf, and Cresselia, and Gliscor. Looking at some quick damage calculations, Alakazam/Gengar/Azelf are always OHKO'd by either option. Cresselia is never OHKO'd by Flare Blitz (unless Blaze is activated, in which case you also die) and Blaze Kick can still 2HKO, so that is rather moot. Flare Blitz only really applies against Rotom (where it always OHKOs with rocks up), Gliscor, and Dusknoir (both of which have a chance of being OHKO'd with rocks up). I guess it's really up to you. The possible OHKO on Rotom and the ability to OHKO Cress with Blaze up might be worthwhile, but for the most part it's going to cause you to suicide against Celebi and Skarmory more than it will help.

 

[sora13]

I was mostly saying take off Flare Blitz. As stated, his weaker Physical Fire moves still do enough damage to the Pokemon you'd be using them on to get the KOs without taking yourself out in the process. And there are surprisingly few threats that you will run in to that resist Close Combat and take Stone Edge neutrally or resisted, but only take Neutral from Fire Punch, such that you'd want the extra damage output from Flare Blitz. The only ones that spring to mind are Ghosts such as Rotom-A, Gengar, and Dusknoir and Psychics such as Alakazam, Azelf, and Cresselia, and Gliscor. Looking at some quick damage calculations, Alakazam/Gengar/Azelf are always OHKO'd by either option. Cresselia is never OHKO'd by Flare Blitz (unless Blaze is activated, in which case you also die) and Blaze Kick can still 2HKO, so that is rather moot. Flare Blitz only really applies against Rotom (where it always OHKOs with rocks up), Gliscor, and Dusknoir (both of which have a chance of being OHKO'd with rocks up). I guess it's really up to you. The possible OHKO on Rotom and the ability to OHKO Cress with Blaze up might be worthwhile, but for the most part it's going to cause you to suicide against Celebi and Skarmory more than it will help.

Alright, thanks. As I said, I'm still testing Fire Punch and seeing how it does.

 

[Froshy]

I'm a little confused as to why you are attaching Brave Bird on Skarmory. It is a wall, yes? Depleting its HP purposely in an attack is like blasphamy when we're talking walls. Sure, you can Roost, but all I'm saying is that Drill Peck would be a better move there instead of Brave Bird because repeatedly taking turns to Roost will hurt you (if you didn't know, when you use Roost, the flying-type of the pokemon goes away until the end of the turn. A Lucario will catch on to this and immediately Close Combat/EQ to exploit the steel-types weaknesses that it couldn't before).

But I mean if its just there to setup spikes then don't pay attention to me. Also, if it is just there to setup spikes, why not run Taunt or Agility?

 

[sora13]

I'm a little confused as to why you are attaching Brave Bird on Skarmory. It is a wall, yes? Depleting its HP purposely in an attack is like blasphamy when we're talking walls. Sure, you can Roost, but all I'm saying is that Drill Peck would be a better move there instead of Brave Bird because repeatedly taking turns to Roost will hurt you (if you didn't know, when you use Roost, the flying-type of the pokemon goes away until the end of the turn. A Lucario will catch on to this and immediately Close Combat/EQ to exploit the steel-types weaknesses that it couldn't before).

But I mean if its just there to setup spikes then don't pay attention to me. Also, if it is just there to setup spikes, why not run Taunt or Agility?

Brave Bird is a great STAB move and it gives me much needed attaking power on Skarm. But I might consider running Agility on Skarm to set up Spikes faster. (for Taunt, I already have anti-spin)

 

[joshe]

Nice team, love the smearlge, but watch out for taunters like aero, and the rare Crobat.
Skarms fine, and rotom looks okay, but give it Discharge>Charge Beam, to paralyze something to help infernape sweep.

I love subpetaya empoleon, but just some little changes. Put those 12SpD evs into defense, and consider grass knot>ice beam, but ice beam is good to take care of celebi and Salamence.

For scizor: 176 HP/252 Atk/80 SDef works better for me, as a more SpD orientated sweeper to take more special atks, and help weaken opponents more for infernape.

Now for the star of the show: infernape. You go with Fire Punch>Flare Blitz no questions asked. After an SD its powerful enough, and you want infernape to last as long as possible, so you can take any priority and still have enough Hp to sweep. Also Mach punch is always a good option on SDnape, but I can't find a moveslot for it.

Anyways, I really like the way you try to get infernape sweeping.

Hope I helped and Good Luck with the team =)

 

[sora13]

After some more playtesting, I have decided on a few things.


A) Instead of Ice Beam on Empoleon, I'm gonna put Grass Knot due all the bulky waters that are switching on me.

B) Fire Punch over Flare Blitz on infernape.

Oh, joshe, I will test that Scizor EV spread. Also, I cannot Rotom lose Charge Beam because Infernape doesn't have speed issues, and Rotom is too incapable otherwise.

 

[Imran]

I finally made it sora!!

OK, so. Magic Coat reflecting Taunt is indeed a bug on Shoddy, but since Shoddy is the arena in which we are playing I see no reason for taking advantage of it. I mean, people have been taking advantage of the last Pokemon Explosion rule whilst it's there, so lets just go with Magic Coat working on Shoddy. COnsidering that fact, your lead must work surprisingly well. I think you actually outspeed Metagross leads etc.. so you should be absolutely fine there.

The Rotom set that you are running is very weak to Tyranitar. I do not see this as an issue however, as a pursuit from Tyranitar is the perfect excuse to get Empoleon set up, but I think we should have a go at fixing at least the EV spread up a bit. The EV spread that I used on my Sub Charge Beam Rotom was 108 HP / 200 SpA / 200 Spe, although I am sorry, I have memory of what I had that for. The analysis reccomends 64 HP / 232 SpA / 212 Spe, for Sub Charge Beam Rotom, although the 64 HP EVs are to survive Blissey's attacks with the Sub intact, so you might as well run either 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe, or simply 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. All of these spreads will work well for you, I guess so give them a go and see which one you prefer / works best.

Brine was never intended to increase when your HP is below 50%, it is when your opponents HP is below 50%. The way that I imgaine it, is if your opponent is badly damaged (i.e. below 50%) then it might be covered in cuts or bruises. Brine is essentially "rubbing salt into their wounds" so it would be like a normal water attack above 50% but then it will really sting below 50%. It kinda works for me anyway, but yeah, it won't necessarily activate when you are below 50%.

Scizor isn't the most reliable Pursuiter out there, especially with the spread you are running. I like to think of CB Tar as a much more reliable Pursuiting Pokemon, especially when pared with Infernape as it has the raw power to deal with things like a switching Cresslia. On the other side of the coin, however, you may find that Scizors priority is found a bit wanting and that the Sandstorm wears Ape down too quickly, (although I daresay you might find that there is Sandstorm in play anyway! So, I would suggest either changing Scizor's EV spread to 240 HP / 56 Atk / 212 SpD, to help it to deal more reliably with Special attackers such as Starmie and Latias who could 2HKO you, or change to a Specially Defensive CB Tar:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature / Sand Stream
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 176 SpD
~ Pursuit
~ Crunch
~ Stone Edge
~ Aqua Tail / Earthquake

Aqua Tail hits Hippowdon hard, and you probably know the rest ad etc... So, where does that leave us. We have a more specially defensive pursuiter, and a new Rotom spread. I was going to suggest Mach Punch on Ape also, but I would change Fire Punch to Blaze Kick is you are planning to do this, as his lack of power will really start to show. Otherwise, you will be forced out by ScarfTran, who actually goes through a lot of your team, which is where Tyranitar will come in handy!

So I hope that your team goes well for you from here. Good luck with your testing and be sure to post back saying how well it went. Best of luck dude!

 

[sora13]

The Rotom set that you are running is very weak to Tyranitar. I do not see this as an issue however, as a pursuit from Tyranitar is the perfect excuse to get Empoleon set up, but I think we should have a go at fixing at least the EV spread up a bit. The EV spread that I used on my Sub Charge Beam Rotom was 108 HP / 200 SpA / 200 Spe, although I am sorry, I have memory of what I had that for. The analysis reccomends 64 HP / 232 SpA / 212 Spe, for Sub Charge Beam Rotom, although the 64 HP EVs are to survive Blissey's attacks with the Sub intact, so you might as well run either 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe, or simply 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. All of these spreads will work well for you, I guess so give them a go and see which one you prefer / works best.

Brine was never intended to increase when your HP is below 50%, it is when your opponents HP is below 50%. The way that I imgaine it, is if your opponent is badly damaged (i.e. below 50%) then it might be covered in cuts or bruises. Brine is essentially "rubbing salt into their wounds" so it would be like a normal water attack above 50% but then it will really sting below 50%. It kinda works for me anyway, but yeah, it won't necessarily activate when you are below 50%.

Scizor isn't the most reliable Pursuiter out there, especially with the spread you are running. I like to think of CB Tar as a much more reliable Pursuiting Pokemon, especially when pared with Infernape as it has the raw power to deal with things like a switching Cresslia. On the other side of the coin, however, you may find that Scizors priority is found a bit wanting and that the Sandstorm wears Ape down too quickly, (although I daresay you might find that there is Sandstorm in play anyway! So, I would suggest either changing Scizor's EV spread to 240 HP / 56 Atk / 212 SpD, to help it to deal more reliably with Special attackers such as Starmie and Latias who could 2HKO you, or change to a Specially Defensive CB Tar:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature / Sand Stream
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 176 SpD
~ Pursuit
~ Crunch
~ Stone Edge
~ Aqua Tail / Earthquake

Aqua Tail hits Hippowdon hard, and you probably know the rest ad etc... So, where does that leave us. We have a more specially defensive pursuiter, and a new Rotom spread. I was going to suggest Mach Punch on Ape also, but I would change Fire Punch to Blaze Kick is you are planning to do this, as his lack of power will really start to show. Otherwise, you will be forced out by ScarfTran, who actually goes through a lot of your team, which is where Tyranitar will come in handy!

So I hope that your team goes well for you from here. Good luck with your testing and be sure to post back saying how well it went. Best of luck dude!

I probably would have t-tar on this team except for the sandstream it causes as Infernape will be worn down much more quickly. Scarftran isn't much of a problem because if it Fire Blsts Skarmory or something, I can switch in Empoleon and sub on the switch, setting up Empoleon. But it's sub tran tat takes the cake, behind a sub it decimates my team. Rotom wasn't meant to sweep, I just don't want it to be immobile as a wall. rortom was meant to be anti-spin and a special wall. Scizor is good, i just need Scizor to deal enough damage(except Latias, who outspeeds and KOes which why I need max attack) to weaken the cresselia, vaporeon,etc. that is coming in and find out what they use as an Infernape counter so i can see if SDape dominates them. I'm looking for another spiker as Skarmory is doing pretty good but if there is something better I'm wwelcome to it. Should I change my EV spread to joshe's spread of 176 HP/252 Atk/80 Sp Def

 

[sora13]

OK, so. Magic Coat reflecting Taunt is indeed a bug on Shoddy, but since Shoddy is the arena in which we are playing I see no reason for taking advantage of it. I mean, people have been taking advantage of the last Pokemon Explosion rule whilst it's there, so lets just go with Magic Coat working on Shoddy. COnsidering that fact, your lead must work surprisingly well. I think you actually outspeed Metagross leads etc.. so you should be absolutely fine there.

I actually don't think that shoddy has a Magic Coat glitch because I've seen videos of in-game test and it relfects taunts but that's besides the point. Smeargle is indeed one of the best leads i've seen, I mean it's been beaten by other leads before, but it always has a way to cripple other leads.

 

[sora13]

Bump! C'mon, I need some more rates!

 

[RainDance]

Okay firstly I suggest nasty plot on infernape over swords dance due to the fact infernapes more of a sp. atker secondly why fire punch you want more power don't you so i suggest flamethrower or fire blast because the stronger and can also leave a burn if thats what your hoping for. The rest of the team is fine but those are my only suggestions I highly sugest you keep them under consideration.

 

[sora13]

Okay firstly I suggest nasty plot on infernape over swords dance due to the fact infernapes more of a sp. atker secondly why fire punch you want more power don't you so i suggest flamethrower or fire blast because the stronger and can also leave a burn if thats what your hoping for. The rest of the team is fine but those are my only suggestions I highly sugest you keep them under consideration.

This whole team is based around SD infernape getting a clean sweep. Why are you saying I should switch to Np. I used NP Vacuum Wave and it's great, but it's not suited for this team. secondly, why put Fire Blast? I don't want him to become mixed, and Fire punch has more power for what I want it to KO. I would lose KOes on everything Fire Punch is meant to KO such as Skarm, Celebi,etc, thus requiring him to be mixed to those KOes.

 

[Shadowhunt]

This whole team is based around SD infernape getting a clean sweep. Why are you saying I should switch to Np. I used NP Vacuum Wave and it's great, but it's not suited for this team. secondly, why put Fire Blast? I don't want him to become mixed, and Fire punch has more power for what I want it to KO. I would lose KOes on everything Fire Punch is meant to KO such as Skarm, Celebi,etc, thus requiring him to be mixed to those KOes.

Mixed Infernape is more of a threat overall. Also, I guarantee you that Nasty Plot Mixedape with a fireblast will do more damage on Skarm especially than SD Ape.

Infernape @ Life Orb
64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Hasty - Blaze
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast
-Nasty Plot
-Grass Knot/HP ICE

Also, for subpetaya Empoleon, since you know have grass knot, I would use Ice Beam over that. Otherwise, you're wide open to a bulky dragon.

 

[sora13]

Mixed Infernape is more of a threat overall. Also, I guarantee you that Nasty Plot Mixedape with a fireblast will do more damage on Skarm especially than SD Ape.

Infernape @ Life Orb
64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Hasty - Blaze
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast
-Nasty Plot
-Grass Knot/HP ICE

Also, for subpetaya Empoleon, since you know have grass knot, I would use Ice Beam over that. Otherwise, you're wide open to a bulky dragon.

Fire Blast will do more, but I do NOT want to become mixed, please understand that! Fire Punch's purpose is just to clear things like Skarmory so that I can have a much easier time sweeping with CC. I have used mixed Infernape before, but it cannot compare to the power of SD Infernape!

 

[joshe]

yeah stay physical, so its not completely walled by gyarados, or salamence.