Project SM OU Lure That Threat v2 Round 45 - Heart Swap Magearna

[Altervisi]

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch

Usually Mega-Tyranitar doesn't run Crunch in favour of the two punches for 4x coverage, however to lure Medicham if you can get a Dragon Dance up on the switch you can outspeed Mega Medicham and OHKO with Crunch, which is incredibly strong at +1. Even at +1 no player will expect you to stay in or they will be prepared to take a Stone Edge in order to get rid of this behemoth. Of course you lose out on some coverage, it's up to you which 4x weak gang you let escape the fury of your weirdly small but very strong fists.

+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 265-313 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Am I joking?

Or you can be an absolutely madman like I was when I first posted when it was very late and I was a little drunk and run Outrage over Crunch. This means you can still hit Zygarde and Garchomp without Ice Punch and if some Fairy like the commonly paired Tapu Lele remains; under Sand Specs Moonblast doesn't even OHKO and then you can just get another free kill with Stone Edge. Obviously there are many drawbacks to this, just found it funny my drunk brain jumped to Outrage over Crunch lol, it hadn't even crossed my mind, glad I caught my mistake before anyone else did...

 

[Sir Slaking]

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball / Power Whip
- Spikes / Stealth Rock

252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 56-66 (15.9 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 237-280 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Spread guarantees you tank a non Adamant Offensive Lando-T U-turn into HJK from Medicham.

Pretty simple, and also not a useless set. Also multiple options for dealing with Mega Medicham. Ferro is the type of pokemon that an aggressive play might want to double into with Medi on a predicted Spikes or even just hard switch since it's pretty much HJK bait, which means you have ample opportunity to actually kill Medicham.

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 141-166 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The power whip set won't ever be able to OHKO Medicham unfortunately unless it has a significant amount of chip, but it can quite easily cripple it or heavily weaken it for the rest of the team. A paralyzed Medicham is a lot less threatening and can be dealt with by other slower members of the team that are scared of Medicham like Lando or Heatran. Minimum of 79% damage done to Medicham assuming no hazards. If you have Spikes already up then Medicham can no longer switch in without getting killed by hazards.

If paralysis/power whip isn't to your fancy you can also just hit Medi back with a hard hitting gyro ball.
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 175-207 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Couple that with Stealth Rock (6.5%) and 2 chunks of Iron Barbs (25%) and Mega Medicham is either KO'd or no longer able to switch in again.

Side benefit is that this also tanks a +2 Secret Sword from Kart and cripples with T-wave.

 

[itsjustaperplane]

Zygarde @ Yache Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Protect
- Dragon Dance

Defensives Calcs

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Ice Punch vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Zygarde: 232-274 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 300-354 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensives Calcs

252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 153-181 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 229-271 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 229-271 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

It's just designed so you can setup on Medicham-M.

- Protect is here because you don't want to take a Fake Out (It can help against T-Punch variants that will use HJK)
- 180 EVs in Speed are here so you can outspeed the 135 BS after a Dragon Dance

This Zygarde want some little damages on Medicham like the SR (two times) or the Spikes so it'll be a guaranteed OHKO , and a hazard removal so it can't be KO by HJK after one SR
And it's actually cool against some offenses teams on late-game just like the Dragonium Z set
(And , yeah , do not switch into Medicham , it's like , dumb af)

 

[Ryomathekillers]

Zapdos @ Flyuim Z/ Power Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Air Cutter/Sky attack
- Heat Wave
- Roost

This set is made to eliminate medicham from the get go.
Medicham does not grab the KO with any of it's moves and will probably try to stay in on zapdos since it can't do much to it other than hope for an unreliable 30% Para. But with Z Air Cutter/Sky attack you can easily beat Mega Medicham while speed tieing with it.
0- Atk Zapdos Sky Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 284-336 (108.8 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Zapdos Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 356-422 (136.3 - 161.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tfw all the good mons are taken so you are forced to resort to flying stab zapdos
The Z move can be used for more reliablity while the Power herb is used if you want to have a different Z move user.
Z Air cutter of course does help zapdos out in some matchups VS Bulky grass types like bulu aswell so it's not just pure medicham lure.

 

[Martin]

Wrapping this up so I can go to sleep soon. In hindsight this was a pretty bad choice for a more offensively-inclined lure target so I'm gonna make up for that with something that warrants luring a little more in the next round.

Round Evaluation

The Good:

• Payapa Pex: This is a good pokemon... that's it; I ain't got anything else to say here. It does what it says on the tin.
• Chople+T-wave Ferrothorn: I use this semi-regularly to patch up this MU when Ferro's healthy as well as to help mess with shit like Gears/Kart/Fightinium Lele etc. so yeah it's a good sub.

The OK:

• Thunder Wave Chansey: This is an underrated set, and it's good for catching it as it comes in provided that Medi is healthy enough to take a Seismic Toss; that said, I'd imagine that if you saw a Chansey balance with smth like a Zyg or w/e that can take advantage of paralysis in the back most players would be better off trying to bring Medi in on doubles until it's 100% certain there's no T-wave on there, especially considering how spammable a move it is.
• Protect Heatran: Another good set that more people should use. Nice for getting extra Lefties recovery and a lot of players don't really expect it a lot of the time, but it's kinda a one-time deal, as the Medi player will be wary going forward and you're forced out after one crash, so it only delays an inevitable fate.
• Crunch Mega TTar: Nice set TBH; kinda shaky as a Medi lure and kinda depends on partners other partners that can deal with a +1 TTar removed first, but if the piece fits then go for it.

Stuff that doesn't really work for the purpose in practice:

• Scarf Gears: This is a good set, but IDT it really lures Mega Medi; it beats it, sure, but they're instantly going to know that something's fishy when a player's response to Medicham is to go into Magearna. More like an emergency answer rather than a lure.

Bad sets:

• Scarf Celesteela: Use Scarf Gears instead of this; also not a lure for the same kinds of reasons as Gears—that and the Medi player will be wary of Protect vs it.
• Yache+Tect Zygarde: Tect feels super inefficient alongside Yache and it doesn't really feel like it achieves much of anything beyond this, especially given that it carries ESpeed to fuck with Mamo/Vile anyway; just use SubTect Zyg alongside a mon that punishes Ice Punch.
• Flying coverage Zapdos: This set doesn't really achieve much of anything IMO; like IG it messes with Tang and Medi and shit if you squint a bit, but being forced to bust your Z move if you want to dent Lando-T/Zyg is pretty bad overall.

Finch said to go with smth with a little more defensive presence but I do wanna stick with the offensive theme for now 'cuz I still love the concept of luring irritating offensive Pokemon and there's a broken Pokemon in this tier that is commonly a target for lures that I haven't covered yet:

Kartana @ Fightinium Z / Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Knock Off / Defog

This is another menace for balanced teams while having some actual semblance of defensive field presence which allows it to switch in on and seriously annoy a large number of common Pokémon, and it is something that they're more likely to actually try and lure than Medi—a Pokemon which I kinda just picked because I was tired and had a hard-on for Chople Ferrothorn at the time. Anyway, lots of commonly-used lures to choose from here, so go wild with this one!

I intend to wild in this round so yeah gonna give ppl 24 hrs to see if they can scoop up the good ones before I get a chance to.

 

[stuuful12]

Reserving PerishTrap Azumarill

Azumarill @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Knock Off / Toxic

Let's talk about the king of lures here and something I love to toy around with, Perishtrap Azumarill. Thanks to Sap Sipper and its amazing typing, it takes very little damage from any of Kart's attacks. However, any good Kartana player would be wary of a potential PerishTrap set, so I run Knock Off to bluff Band to fool any Kartana or any other defensive pokemon into switching. Iapapa is used due to remaining concealed unlike Leftovers. Be careful to not spam Knock Off too much and on resisted targets as to not trigger opponent suspicion that you aren't Huge Power Of course, if you're a purist, you could also run Toxic or something like that; but bluffing Band with Knock Off to lure Kartana is hilarious.

Look at that pitiful damage

252 Atk Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 56-67 (13.8 - 16.5%) -- possible 7HKO
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 52-62 (12.8 - 15.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

EDIT

Aqua Jet and Perish Song are illegal together and I didn't realize that. Doesn't really change the nature of the lure, but still is pretty frustrating, but then again, when I was playtesting this, I used Knock Off instead of Aqua Jet, but just thought that Aqua Jet would be better when I was writing up this post, but I never playtested that. So basically, the only thing different now is that Knock Off is now run over Aqua Jet, but both are capable of luring

 

[Ryomathekillers]

Reserving Fire Fang Hippowdon


(Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers/Rindo Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock/Whirlwind
- Earthquake/Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Fire Fang/Hidden power fire

What I did here was take a safe kartana set up situation and make it a lure. While at first this may seem throwaway it does also hold up against other mons such as MScizor and Ferrothorn while offering fire coverage which is nice. While whirlwind may phase kartana out it's rather unreliable as hippowdown can't really overcome kartana but for other mons it's nice and may be worth using over EQ. The Rindo berry can be used to make sure that a +2 Leaf blade cannot kill you, it also allows you to survive the unboosted bloom doom which regular cannot take.
Hidden power fire can be used over fire fang for Kartana as that gets the OHKO while Fang does not, of course this makes the matchup against ferro and Mscizor somewhat harder on Hippowdown.

Extra attack can be taken out of Spdef to let Hippow get the 2hko mark on Scizor.
Calcs
0- SpA Hippowdon Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 272-324 (104.6 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Fire Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 164-196 (63 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Rindo Berry Hippowdon: 264-312 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Rindo Berry Hippowdon: 133-157 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 266-314 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Scizor-Mega: 140-168 (40.8 - 48.9%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Hippowdon Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 156-188 (44.3 - 53.4%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Meliodafu7]

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Hidden Power Fire
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Pretty good lure for Kartana, normally M-Scizor can't do good amounts of damage for Kartana, and it can get at +4 almost for free. However, with this, M-Scizor can tank the AoP and OHKO back with HP Fire. I slash Relaxed Nature because it gives you the 2HKO at opposing M-Scizor, as well as having 80% to 3HKO Ferrothorn. This set should be paired with another defog user like Mantine or Mew in balanced builds, or Scarf Lando/Kartana in BO builds.

+2 252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 277-327 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Technician Scizor-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 392-464 (150.7 - 178.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Technician Scizor-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 440-520 (169.2 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Technician Scizor-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 180-216 (52.4 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mellow]

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 8 SpA / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Surprise surprise, it's a fire coverage lure. Hidden Power Fire catches Kartana on the switch / on the sd (or even on the +2 Sacred Sword if you run Chople) and knocks it out despite it's poor SpA stat. You have to run a nature that isn't -SpA and 8 SpA investment if you want the guaranteed OHKO though.

calcs

+2 252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 192-226 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Ferrothorn Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 256-304 (98.4 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Ferrothorn Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 260-308 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Flame from Heaven]

HP fire Lando t

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
Defensive Lando is often used as setup fodder for Kartana, especially if the Kartanas team has Tapu Bulu. With HP Fire, Lando can OHKO Kartana as it uses Swords Dance. This set is not completely useless outside of Kartana either. It can also lure Mega Scizor and cripple defoggers and bulky grass types with Toxic.

 

[Aecito]

Zygarde @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While Zygarde is normally set up fodder, this can be used as a filler move to lure kart. It always gets the OHKO on kart and also has a decent chance of living 2 leaf blades unboosted.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 160-190 (44.6 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Zygarde Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 316-372 (121.5 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[robofiend]

Zygarde @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While Zygarde is normally set up fodder, this can be used as a filler move to lure kart. It always gets the OHKO on kart and also has a decent chance of living 2 leaf blades unboosted.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 160-190 (44.6 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Zygarde Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 316-372 (121.5 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sorry, but this is bad. Zygarde already wins without the garbage coverage move. And you've got to be pretty desperate to try to set up your Kart on a Zygarde. Most Zygarde sets carry DD, lots run extra bulk and/or Coil, and the ones that don't run CB. Ironically, CB is one of the better sets for Kart because of how little CB Espeed does comapared to Thousand Arrows:

252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 160-189 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 47-56 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 160-190 (44.6 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO

Sorry again, I don't want to be rude but I really couldn't resist calling this one out.

Anyway, as for mine - I have a strategy that hasn't been mentioned and two Pokemon who love using it:

Chansey @ Eviolite
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 Def / 12 SpD
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
EVs: 48 Def / 208 SpD
- Spikes / Protect / Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip / Gyro Ball
- Thunder Wave

As two of the maybe 3 things in OU that Kartana will freely swap into, Chansey and Ferro are the best lures for Kartana without any real recourse against it. Seismic Toss is dismal, HP Fire is hopelessly niche, but Thunder Wave hits the sweet spot of "This cripples SD Kartana and also works against a ton of other threats".

Chansey lures all sorts of walls and sweepers, and a lot of the things it checks hate Para. If an opposing Gren/Ash-Gren thinks they can get away with Spiking on you, para them and laugh. Predict the Medicham switch in, predict the Kart switch in (or just para it as it SD's and sack something else), predict Keldeo/Lele when they think you'll switch, laugh as Heatran fails to Magma trap you because it can't outspeed and Taunt you. Pretty much everything in the tier except for Zygarde, Koko, and Landorus-T is vulnerable in some sense to Paralysis, and the things that aren't vulnerable to the usual Toxic that goes in this moveset anyway (Ferrothorn, Pex, Gliscor). T-wave Chansey is one of the biggest (and worst) surprises that an opponent can throw at you.

Similar deal for Ferrothorn: it's got options and it can abuse opponents like Megazard X/Y, Tapu Bulu, Ash-Gren (trying to get lucky with a flinch), Volcarona, Kartana, Victini, M-Venusaur, and even opposing Ferrothorns. Knock Off and Protect are the usual 4th move on this set, but T-Wave can completely ruin a team that's built around Volcarona sweeping or Kartana breaking walls. Thunder Wave Ferrothorn is especially potent on offensive teams that need to nullify the tier's top threats immediately due to their lack of phasing or walls like Chansey to back them up.

 

[curiosity]

Unaware Flamethrower Clef

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower

Unaware Clefable - albeit an uncommon [and often inferior to its Magic Guard Counterpart] mon on balance is an effective choice for a "reliable" Kartana answer. As Clefable is able to ignore stat boosts, Clefable can comfortably (I say this loosely) stomach Leaf Blades from Kartana and retaliate with flamethrower.
While you may think that a crit from Leaf Blade is detrimental to Clef, it is able to stomach a max roll Leaf Blade Crit into a Bloom Doom through protect at minimal health.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable on a critical hit: 249-294 (63.1 - 74.6%)

252 Atk Kartana Bloom Doom (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def protected Clefable: 80-95 (20.3 - 24.1%)

74.6 + 24.1 = 98.7

In all honesty, Flamethrower Clefable isn't exactly the greatest option (as the only other notable targets are scizor and ferrothorn) especially when compared to the utility that Magic Guard provides, but is still workable nonetheless.

also @ above, please don't complain about "unsets" when you yourself have posted 2 meme sets in this thread and 1 in mine.

 

[Martin]

Magnezone @ Chople Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]


didn't feel like writing something mine because I'm bad :(

This isn’t a lure...

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

This isn’t a lure...

oh mb, thought people could go into kartana after seeing magnezone is not choice locked but ye sacred sword doesn't kill anyways so probably that wouldn't make really sense if not if the kartana sword danced or magnezone is damaged, gonna delete the post ig

 

[Martin]

This really isn't a great lure 'cuz it doesn't remove Kartana from the picture, but all the good shit's gone so *shrug*

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Stealth Rock / Wish
- U-turn / Protect

Kartana is usually able to use Jirachi as setup fodder; it takes fuck all from Iron Head, and the vast majority of Jirachi carry either WishTect+U-turn or SR+U-turn+HWish instead of running Body Slam. Body Slam allows Jirachi to do more than just pivot out as Kartana switches in, crippling it with paralysis instead. It serves a number of other purposes too; Body Slam cripples a high number of common Rachi switch-ins including Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Heatran while also leaving Toxapex royally pissed-off. It also punishes Pokemon like Volcarona and Hawlucha for trying to set up on Jirachi.

 

[Finchinator]

This really isn't a great lure 'cuz it doesn't remove Kartana from the picture, but all the good shit's gone so *shrug*

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Stealth Rock / Wish
- U-turn / Protect

Kartana is usually able to use Jirachi as setup fodder; it takes fuck all from Iron Head, and the vast majority of Jirachi carry either WishTect+U-turn or SR+U-turn+HWish instead of running Body Slam. Body Slam allows Jirachi to do more than just pivot out as Kartana switches in, crippling it with paralysis instead. It serves a number of other purposes too; Body Slam cripples a high number of common Rachi switch-ins including Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Heatran while also leaving Toxapex royally pissed-off. It also punishes Pokemon like Volcarona and Hawlucha for trying to set up on Jirachi.

Probably worth noting that Fire Punch is a viable option depending upon your team and that can go far against Kartana, of course.

Regardless, lots of quality posts and contributions on this one dudes, keep it up!

 

[Martin]

Probably worth noting that Fire Punch is a viable option depending upon your team and that can go far against Kartana, of course.

Regardless, lots of quality posts and contributions on this one dudes, keep it up!

i almost slashed it in there, but when i saw it only did 66-80 to uninvested Kart i was like "uninvested fire punch probably isn't worth saccing the option to bring extra utility for"

 

[Finchinator]

i almost slashed it in there, but when i saw it only did 66-80 to uninvested Kart i was like "uninvested fire punch probably isn't worth saccing the option to bring extra utility for"

Still plenty of damage to where, with Stealth Rock, something like Scarf Landorus-T U-turn or a fairly weak attack can pick it off later. With that said, it is weak - for example, it may not even always 2HKO Ferrothorn, so I understand the hesitation there.

 

[MFJK]

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 76 SpA / 196 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- U-turn

This is a pretty cool set Eo used in SPL (even though he couldn't show it off). Earth Power OHKOes Kartana while allowing Lando to run HP Ice rather than HP Fire.

76 SpA Landorus-Therian Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 262-309 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Astoria]

Keldeo @ Rindo Berry
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Invites in Kartana - Leaf blade will "only" do 75% max but often Kartana might set up anyways, especially when u have a mon that can only check scarf which makes you using this lure :v . After some prior damage Keldeo can OHKO with Secret Sword or just use Icy Wind to get a safe 2HKO. Rindo Berry on Keldeo might not let it break Toxapex but instead helps breaking things like Amoonguus, Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu or M-Venu for like Tapu Koko so it isnt entirely useless. Also Icy Wind isnt bad imo as it also helps with Zygarde, (M)Latios, Torn-T or other faster pivots who are switched in, in fear of a +1 Keldeo. Additionally it can also help you with Ferrothorn, Serperior or Giga Drain Volcarona at +1. You can use this with like Magma Storm Tran to trap Pex.

 

[A]

Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 76 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Nature's Madness

Hidden Power Fire allows Tapu Bulu to beat Kartana, which often tries to Swords Dance or just straight up attack you. For Superpower; the Adamant set doesn't really even roll a KO after rocks, and Impish is going to tickle it with Superpower. You generally don't really click it sans Heatran, Magnezone, or Ferrothorn which you generally have teammates to better handle it. You always eat any move Kartana can throw at you unboosted, including Smart Strike. A plausible situation is Kartana (generally at a high amount of HP will Swords Dance on your face, tank Superpower, and now +2 Leaf Blade has a really high shot of actually KO'ing you straight up.) HP Fire pretty much just removes all worries and lets you deal with it no sweat. In addition, it also has bonus applications vs Mega Scizor, being able to have a very slight shot of KO'ing it if it hards into Stealth Rock + Nature's Madness, and Impish Bulu is almost never 2HKO'd by unboosted utility Bullet Punch (if you can chip it just a tiny bit more it's pretty much doable). Relaxed would be optimal if you really wanted to increase chances vs MSciz, but that's a bit awkward since you become slower. If you want, run 8 SpA EVs which increases the max roll vs Sciz by 1%.



(if you really dont wanna drop superpower for some reason try dropping Wood Hammer (youd lose out on beating on pex/clef ig but thats not the end of the world), but you can just NM heatran ferro zone if they come in then just swap out to a teammate, honestly bulu already covers a ton of ground and being able to add kart to things that it reliably covers is fine sans steelium)

Calcs
252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 248 HP / 36+ Def Tapu Bulu: 230-272 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0- SpA Tapu Bulu Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 328-388 (126.1 - 149.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Martin]

I can't update this until I find an opportunity to get onto my computer for the first time in a week 'cuz my tablet charger is snapped off+lodged in the charging port and iPhones fucking suck, so sorry about delays.

 

[jamheald]

This is my first one of these, but this is a set I've used a lot.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn
- Roost

So Hidden Power Fire Scizor-Mega has already been posted, and no doubt that's a better Kartana lure/counter, but I just wanted to show that Hidden Power Ice actually lets Scizor deal with Kartana in a lot of situations, while also letting it deal with Landorus-T, Zygarde and Gliscor (and Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite).

Dependent on hazards and chip, you will sometimes be able to 2HKO Kartana but more than likely you will be killing it with two Hidden Power Ices into a Bullet Punch.

0 SpA Technician Scizor-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 110-130 (42.3 - 50%)

Now obviously this look terrible compared to Fire Scizor, but with Ice you can 2HKO all Landorus-T, Zygarde and Gliscor that aren't heavily invested in SpD, meanwhile a Fire Scizor can't consistently break Zyagrde's Substitutes.

It definitely requires more work to successfully deal with Kartana than most of these other lures/counters, but it is also a lot more versatile.

 

[Martin]

Sorry for the wait:

Hide

Consistently good lures:

• HP Fire Mega Scizor: good set, and Scizor's not hugely crippled by saccing Defog
• HP Fire Ferrothorn: see above
• HP Fire Lando: see above
• Earth Power Landorus: I've used this before; it's a good set.
• HP Fire Bulu: This set is good

Less reliable/more situational lures:

• Perish Trap Azu: Azu's one of those Pokemon where it's often kinda obvious what set it is but players will still fall into its jaws out of fear that it might not be the defensive set. It will often end up trapping something else, but it will sometimes net the Kart trap so it works; kinda situation-dependent tho obvi.
• T-wave Chansey/Ferro: please only sub one at a time in future; these cripple it nicely but are still forced out, and even once paralyzed you're gonna have a pretty tricky time switching into a Kartana if you don't have multiple responses to play mind games using.
• Flamethrower Clef: it hits it nicely, but any good Kartana player would be super wary around a Clefable 'cuz Flamethrower is common on it.
• Body Slam Rachi: see Chansey/Ferro
• HP Ice Mega Scizor: Yeah this works+hits more other stuff, but having to hit it on switch is kinda awkward, so yeah it's not as reliable as HP Fire for this specific purpose

Bad lures:

• Fire Fang Hippowdon: this is kinda awkward in that it both a) needs to hit it as it switches in and b) doesn't generally provide Kartana with setup opportunities anyway due to Whirlwind. It's a mon that is already pretty pressed for moveslots (sacrificing Toxic or Whirlwind is super shaky outside of maybe Ice Fang>Tox on super specific teams, which helps to pressure Glis without sacrificing the ability to take on Lando), so it's generally better to just not bother with this one.
• CB HP Fire Zygarde: This'd be better if it was any set other than CB; being locked means that you're either gonna hit it super hard on switch-in regardless or get used as setup fodder by it anyway.
• Vacuum Wave Mew: this is not a good set, and if I were a Kartana player I'd be super wary around a Mew anyway.
• Rindo Keldeo: I think Rindo Keldeo could be usable maybe possibly on some teams, but it seems super duper iffy in general considering it a) needs to be at full health for it to actually work and b) Kartana isn't exactly the first thing most players would use as their response to Keldeo in any given game until they were 100% certain that they're safe.

OK and with that it's time to move onto our next threat! I'm sick of Fire-weak stuff, so have this instead:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD OR 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Calm Mind
- Flamethrower / Calm Mind / Knock Off / Thunder Wave

The red EV spread outruns paralyzed Lele; let's see what lures you can think of for this baby. Good luck!