true, but volcorona couldn't hit it, and i had no other switchins that wouldn't be koed by the searing shot/flash cannon, and terrakion had the most chance of surviving, with a 20% over 0%
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Ladder STABmons [OMotM November]
- Thread starter EV
- Start date
Which simply means your team needs to be fixed, as not having a valid switch-in to a potent threat in the metagame is really bad.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/carrying-the-torch-a-stabmons-rmt.3567170/
Posting a STABmons RMT made by me and Betathunder, go check it out!
Posting a STABmons RMT made by me and Betathunder, go check it out!
what do you guys think of mandibuzz? i think it has a niche in being a flying-type, immune to spore, and access to defog, over its competition of sableye and tyranitar. i've been thinking of trying out roost / defog / knock off / parting shot. want to fit toxic and whirlwind too, but this seems to be a dandy set. foul play is counterintuitive with parting shot, so i didn't see it as viable. just food for thought!
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Foul play is counter-intuitive with Parting Shot how? You're not staying in after you use parting shot so it won't ever affect Foul Play...
Because, if you Parting Shot, go into something else, predict a switch, and go back in with Mandibuzz, the opponent is still at -1. And if it's the last Pokemon and it's a PP stall then Foul Play isn't helping you much anyways.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
That seems like a very unlikely scenario to decide for you not to run the move you normally want. I'm not going to change my move for one very arbitrary, unlikely scenario. Besides, why would you parting shot out on something and come back in...and need to go for foul play instead of using parting shot again? you wouldn't have used parting shot in the first place most of the time. PP stall doesn't make knock off a better option than foul play either, so I still don't understand your reasoning there.
Knock off is perfectly justifiable as a utility move. It can easily be run over Foul Play because knocking off items is just so good. You don't necessarily need Foul Play on Mandi but i agree Parting Shot doesn't really hinder Foul Play in most scenarios. Even if you are on a pokemon who is -1 you still can wall comfortably so you doing less damage isn't a big deal.
dark-types in stabmons
the dark-type in stabmons is one of the most prominent and one of the absolute best. this post is going to go over all of the usable dark-type moves and pokemon, and what it brings to the table. the type as a whole offers powerful supportive options to turn the opponent's own perks against then, while also adding a few powerful offensive moves as well. while most team have a dark-type pokemon, does your team have a dark-type check?
moves:
the dark-type in stabmons is one of the most prominent and one of the absolute best. this post is going to go over all of the usable dark-type moves and pokemon, and what it brings to the table. the type as a whole offers powerful supportive options to turn the opponent's own perks against then, while also adding a few powerful offensive moves as well. while most team have a dark-type pokemon, does your team have a dark-type check?
moves:
- knock off: brings a powerful stab move to dark-types who have been stuck with crunch for generations. the most notable benefactor of this addition is tyranitar, which was one of the best pokemon in stabmons xy. plus, with all of the items in the metagame that make all the pokemon so powerful, knock off is a crucial move to be prepared for.
- sucker punch: a priority move with strong power is amazing on anything. wielding the same exact power as extreme speed, sucker punch is nothing to sleep on! this majorly helps hoopa-u, which has an issue with its speed in general, which suddenly disappears thanks to sucker punch. the move isn't perfect, but it's still a great addition to the dark type movepool.
- memento: ah memento, a move that i've always been fond of. having the ability to bring in a pokemon for set up opportunity is amazing and although you do sack the pokemon who uses the move, it's still an excellent move; especially for hyper offense teams. and with all the moves in stabmons that allow new set up opportunities, it's just awesome.
- parting shot: every dark-type but inkay and malamar suddenly gets access to a move that also puts the opponent in an unfavorable situation and lets them pivot out too! it also gets priority when sableye uses it, which is really great in general. it also allows choice scarved dark-types to have a hay day, and work well alongside volt switch and u-turn.
- nasty plot: although not as popular since the leave of greninja, nasty plot is still an underestimated threat that one must account for. dangerous pokemon such as hydreigon suddenly have access to instaneous +2 special attack to launch off powerful attacks without fear. though, it really isn't the *best* of the dark-type moves as one would assume.
- switcheroo: a very interesting move! to get rid of your item and give it to another pokemon to hopefully cripple them is something that cannot be underestimated. defensive pokemon aren't as out of favor recently, and being able to steal away leftovers / rocky helmet to give them a crippling choiced item is something that can't be underestimated. though, knock off gives it a challenge.
- topsy-turvy: the final move i will discuss. being able to turn up set-up pokemon into set up bait is a really awesome aspect. the best user by far is sableye, as it has prankster and can move before most thanks to this. with how common set up is in the entire metagame, having a way to turn the opponents boosts on them is just something that a few pokemon love having access to.
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hoopa-u: hoopa-u is easily the best dark-type pokemon in the metagame. so powerful, versatile, and it just has the ability to put so much crazy pressure on the opponent without really much drawback. it has sets such as choice band, choice specs, life orb mixed, lure sets, substitute sets, and everything in between. it's insanely hard to switch into, so be sure to bring along some checks!
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sableye-m: one of the best defensive pokemon period. now with parting shot, sableye is able to pivot in and out of... well... anything. plus, having prankster turn one makes it an awesome move. and since sableye likes to pivot thanks to magic bounce, having parting shot to aid in that is a major buff.
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tyranitar: stronk knock off, sucker punch, and enjoys parting shot. !_!
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sableye: sableye is probably the best abuser of the new dark-type additions. with prankster, it's able to use topsy-turvy, parting shot, and memento, although likely not all at once. however, the massive utility that comes in that one little package of a team slot is priceless, and sableye is able to check a large majority of the metagame thanks to its newfound access to some interesting moves.
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weavile: although taking a hit since the dark void ban, weavile remains a solid offensive threat thanks to swords dance. and, it now has a fast parting shot to swerve out of its counters and get into a pokemon that can possibly take advantage of the situation. also, a strong sucker punch never hurt anyone! (except the opponent)
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bisharp: finally, we have bisharp. bisharp also took a hit with shift gear bans, but that isn't to say bisharp is bad by any means. landorus-t is like on every team, and defog is super common, so having a pokemon that can dissuade both rocks. it also enjoys pivoting with parting shot, and can even take advantage of opposing parting shots!
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Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
tfw no ttardark-types in stabmons
the dark-type in stabmons is one of the most prominent and one of the absolute best. this post is going to go over all of the usable dark-type moves and pokemon, and what it brings to the table. the type as a whole offers powerful supportive options to turn the opponent's own perks against then, while also adding a few powerful offensive moves as well. while most team have a dark-type pokemon, does your team have a dark-type check?
moves:
pokemon:
- knock off: brings a powerful stab move to dark-types who have been stuck with crunch for generations. the most notable benefactor of this addition is tyranitar, which was one of the best pokemon in stabmons xy. plus, with all of the items in the metagame that make all the pokemon so powerful, knock off is a crucial move to be prepared for.
- sucker punch: a priority move with strong power is amazing on anything. wielding the same exact power as extreme speed, sucker punch is nothing to sleep on! this majorly helps hoopa-u, which has an issue with its speed in general, which suddenly disappears thanks to sucker punch. the move isn't perfect, but it's still a great addition to the dark type movepool.
- memento: ah memento, a move that i've always been fond of. having the ability to bring in a pokemon for set up opportunity is amazing and although you do sack the pokemon who uses the move, it's still an excellent move; especially for hyper offense teams. and with all the moves in stabmons that allow new set up opportunities, it's just awesome.
- parting shot: every dark-type but inkay and malamar suddenly gets access to a move that also puts the opponent in an unfavorable situation and lets them pivot out too! it also gets priority when sableye uses it, which is really great in general. it also allows choice scarved dark-types to have a hay day, and work well alongside volt switch and u-turn.
- nasty plot: although not as popular since the leave of greninja, nasty plot is still an underestimated threat that one must account for. dangerous pokemon such as hydreigon suddenly have access to instaneous +2 special attack to launch off powerful attacks without fear. though, it really isn't the *best* of the dark-type moves as one would assume.
- switcheroo: a very interesting move! to get rid of your item and give it to another pokemon to hopefully cripple them is something that cannot be underestimated. defensive pokemon aren't as out of favor recently, and being able to steal away leftovers / rocky helmet to give them a crippling choiced item is something that can't be underestimated. though, knock off gives it a challenge.
- topsy-turvy: the final move i will discuss. being able to turn up set-up pokemon into set up bait is a really awesome aspect. the best user by far is sableye, as it has prankster and can move before most thanks to this. with how common set up is in the entire metagame, having a way to turn the opponents boosts on them is just something that a few pokemon love having access to.
overall, the dark-type is very interesting and is one of the most underrated in all of stabmons. hope you enjoyed this post. luv Reverb
oh yeah i'll add that. thanks lcass!
I wouldn't say replace but maybe slash
The scald/steam eruption situation is basically like flamethrower/fire blast, as both have their own uses and the players should be able to have preference
dude fire blast is run over flamethrower on almost everything that gets it. plus steam eruption is much more accurate than fire blast is, AND scald is weaker than flamethrower. Defensive mons might prefer Scald, but anything offensive like keldeo will definitely want to be using steam eruption lmao.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Tbh, Keldeo, as an offensive mon, prefers the extra power. Steam Eruption's miss chance is only 5%, so it's not like the 85 v 100 accuracy thing of Flamethrower/Fire Blast. I can't see myself ever running Scald over Steam Eruption on Keldeo
I misread steam eruptions accuracy so nvm l0l
tfw fat teams are back with the banning of Hoopa-U
The glaring issue with Steam Eruption Keldeo is that if you're running Water Spout and Steam Eruption your most reliable Water-type STAB attack has 8 PP. This seriously damages Keldeo's ability to take on bulkier teams. On the other hand, Scald is incredibly spammable and allows Keldeo to spread burns without any worries. With Steam Eruption I'd run Origin Pulse, as otherwise Keldeo just runs out of Water STAB PP too quickly. lol so yeah I can see myself running Scald over Steam Eruption. For that reason Funbot28 I'd rather not rush ahead and mindlessly edit in Steam Eruption; I'd like to work out the slashing with the rest of QC.
This also means that the thread which considers banning Scald in PR is really relevant and everyone should check it out.
In the meantime, what do people think of Volcanion? It seems like a neat wallbreaker, and it now picks up moves such as Blue Flare and Magma Storm. Its Speed stat is pretty meh though
edit:
Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Steam Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Literally kills everything ever! Absolutely insane wallbreaker that's near-impossible to switch into, even Goodra and Chansey detest burns chipping away at their health (although for Chansey that's only applicable if it switches in on Steam Eruption). Modest is also excellent, although outspeeding Adamant Mega Scizor is really important for the teams I've been using this on
The glaring issue with Steam Eruption Keldeo is that if you're running Water Spout and Steam Eruption your most reliable Water-type STAB attack has 8 PP. This seriously damages Keldeo's ability to take on bulkier teams. On the other hand, Scald is incredibly spammable and allows Keldeo to spread burns without any worries. With Steam Eruption I'd run Origin Pulse, as otherwise Keldeo just runs out of Water STAB PP too quickly. lol so yeah I can see myself running Scald over Steam Eruption. For that reason Funbot28 I'd rather not rush ahead and mindlessly edit in Steam Eruption; I'd like to work out the slashing with the rest of QC.
This also means that the thread which considers banning Scald in PR is really relevant and everyone should check it out.
In the meantime, what do people think of Volcanion? It seems like a neat wallbreaker, and it now picks up moves such as Blue Flare and Magma Storm. Its Speed stat is pretty meh though
edit:
Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Steam Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Literally kills everything ever! Absolutely insane wallbreaker that's near-impossible to switch into, even Goodra and Chansey detest burns chipping away at their health (although for Chansey that's only applicable if it switches in on Steam Eruption). Modest is also excellent, although outspeeding Adamant Mega Scizor is really important for the teams I've been using this on
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EV
Banned deucer.
**SUSPECT ALERT**
WANTED: Kyurem-Black, street alias Ice Kyube. This Pokemon is suspected of Dragon Dancing without a proper permit and throwing icicles at bystanders at high speed, often resulting in severe injury or death. He may also carry other unconventional weapons with him, such as molten chunks of Earth or very strong mints which turn his breath to ice to catch his victims off guard. Armed with berries and highly dangerous. Proceed with caution.
WANTED: Porygon-Z, street alias Cancer, Baby Go Boom Boom, and Switch-Ins?, among others. This Pokemon is known for disrupting entire neighborhoods with explosive sound which is capable of dismantling entire buildings of Rock and Steel in just two hits. It may wear a Scarf that allows it to outrun most opponents or it carries plates of varying colors for which to judge you with. PZ has been seen downloading stat boosts to further increase its power. Otherwise it relies on its sheer adaptive capabilities to strengthen its moves, even including fast physical attacks that pick off unsuspecting targets before they can blink. Approach at your own risk!
neither of these pokemon are broken
kyurem-b is a good dragon dancer, in fact it's likely the best, but it isn't by any means broken or overcentralizing. the only annoying thing abt it is earth power. otherwise most teams have a counter. and plus, offensive teams give kyurem-b nearly zero room to set up. life orb mixed is probably the best set right now since it bops things like rotom-h/heatran, but otherwise i feel that kyurem-b is just a *good* threat. what has changed to cause it to be worthy of a suspect? it seems weird to suspect it after nearly no changes (besides steam eruption, which actually makes kyurem-b worse) and i dont feel it's even worthy either way.
porygon-z is bad against anything that has higher speed and resists extreme speed. unless you run scarf boom which has the obvious ghost/steel coming from a mile away. download is annoying as hell, but again, offensive teams are able to apply solid pressure anyways. and again, what's made porygon-z suddenly worthy of a suspect test?
tl;dr: what's changed to make these two suspects?
now if you want a suspect, go thundurus. shit's broken.
kyurem-b is a good dragon dancer, in fact it's likely the best, but it isn't by any means broken or overcentralizing. the only annoying thing abt it is earth power. otherwise most teams have a counter. and plus, offensive teams give kyurem-b nearly zero room to set up. life orb mixed is probably the best set right now since it bops things like rotom-h/heatran, but otherwise i feel that kyurem-b is just a *good* threat. what has changed to cause it to be worthy of a suspect? it seems weird to suspect it after nearly no changes (besides steam eruption, which actually makes kyurem-b worse) and i dont feel it's even worthy either way.
porygon-z is bad against anything that has higher speed and resists extreme speed. unless you run scarf boom which has the obvious ghost/steel coming from a mile away. download is annoying as hell, but again, offensive teams are able to apply solid pressure anyways. and again, what's made porygon-z suddenly worthy of a suspect test?
tl;dr: what's changed to make these two suspects?
now if you want a suspect, go thundurus. shit's broken.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Pretty much agreeing with unfixable here in that nothing really changed that breaks these mons since the beggining of the STABmons change in December. Their both amazing offensive threats dont get me wrong, but with all the other powerful mons in the meta, I dont really see how these two pokemon could be broken. I dont want to repeat what unfix said but I basically agree with everything she said.
P.S Nasty Plot Thundurus is stupid though so ya I am bandwaggoning this nom ;)
P.S Nasty Plot Thundurus is stupid though so ya I am bandwaggoning this nom ;)
e: o i forgot teravolt lol. ignore me.
pz, borderline. boomburst is insane, and its fakespeed isnt even that weak thanks to adaptability. 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 229-270 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. when chansey gets 3hkod by a special attacker not using fighting moves, there's something wrong. oh, you think you're transforming into it? better win the speed tie because - 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 517-611 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - you aren't taking another one of those either (that calc adjusted for chansey's base hp). i could see a pz banning, it could help stall, but overall im not too strong because porygon-z obviously lacks in bulk and speed.
now a thundy suspect is something i strongly support. its absolutely ridiculous. the problem with thundy is that one of its stabs also functions as recovery, so after it takes 50% setting up a nasty plot it just recovers back its hp while it kills you. did you plan on revenge killing it with scarf keld? oh, look, a prankster twave cripples you permanently as well as lets it live 25% of the time. plan on switching in to an electric type? oh look, your raikou just took a third of its health while thundy recovered his. not to mention tbolt doesnt outright kill from just about any electric type, so if it nasty'd and you're at like 50 or it has focus blast (which is good coverage), bye "counter"! stall at least has chansey and clefable to wall thundy, until you realize they both lose to taunt and the former also loses to nasty plot unless it has toxic (i prefer twave because offense is the strong archetype but toxic is good as well). oh and like dedicated special walls are even good switchins, because bolt strike mixed and full physical sets are both completely viable! the only negative to thundy is that fakespeed revenges it pretty easily, but there's no reason you can't just come in again later, because unlike other sweepers thundy recovers its hp while it kills which is what really seperates it for me. oh and at 90%, its not dying to ice shard from weavile so it can twave it, or ice shard from kyub for that matter (252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 216-254 (72.2 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) so it can focus blast it or obwing it. thundy has been broken for a long time, its time for it to go.
pz, borderline. boomburst is insane, and its fakespeed isnt even that weak thanks to adaptability. 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 229-270 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. when chansey gets 3hkod by a special attacker not using fighting moves, there's something wrong. oh, you think you're transforming into it? better win the speed tie because - 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 517-611 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - you aren't taking another one of those either (that calc adjusted for chansey's base hp). i could see a pz banning, it could help stall, but overall im not too strong because porygon-z obviously lacks in bulk and speed.
now a thundy suspect is something i strongly support. its absolutely ridiculous. the problem with thundy is that one of its stabs also functions as recovery, so after it takes 50% setting up a nasty plot it just recovers back its hp while it kills you. did you plan on revenge killing it with scarf keld? oh, look, a prankster twave cripples you permanently as well as lets it live 25% of the time. plan on switching in to an electric type? oh look, your raikou just took a third of its health while thundy recovered his. not to mention tbolt doesnt outright kill from just about any electric type, so if it nasty'd and you're at like 50 or it has focus blast (which is good coverage), bye "counter"! stall at least has chansey and clefable to wall thundy, until you realize they both lose to taunt and the former also loses to nasty plot unless it has toxic (i prefer twave because offense is the strong archetype but toxic is good as well). oh and like dedicated special walls are even good switchins, because bolt strike mixed and full physical sets are both completely viable! the only negative to thundy is that fakespeed revenges it pretty easily, but there's no reason you can't just come in again later, because unlike other sweepers thundy recovers its hp while it kills which is what really seperates it for me. oh and at 90%, its not dying to ice shard from weavile so it can twave it, or ice shard from kyub for that matter (252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 216-254 (72.2 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) so it can focus blast it or obwing it. thundy has been broken for a long time, its time for it to go.
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EV
Banned deucer.
Why does anything have to have changed? Kyurem-B has always been stupid. Same with Porygon-Z.
It's Kyurem's bulk that makes it broken, letting it set up on Offense and Stall alike. Watch that video I have lying around where I setup on a Heatran. I can find others too if you want. It generally takes a Sub and one DD to wreck most teams.
Are you keeping your Landorus, Thundurus, or Serperior in on it? Lum+Sub destroys offense.
How? Keldeo and Volcanion are the most common users, and Keldeo already scares it with Sacred Sword.
It's Kyurem's bulk that makes it broken, letting it set up on Offense and Stall alike. Watch that video I have lying around where I setup on a Heatran. I can find others too if you want. It generally takes a Sub and one DD to wreck most teams.
Really? Scarf 2HKOs resists. Psyshock and Dark Pulse aren't too common but they still invalidate Ghosts (which are rare).
Teravolt lol. Your Clef and Quag mean nothing. (It also doesn't run Iron Head for that reason.) Edit: With HP EVs it can setup on Chansey ez pz if it lacks Whirlwind, which many don't run.
Stop saying that, it's totally untrue.
EV
Banned deucer.
Setting up on Tran (and I don't even have Lum how cool am I) - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-338505325
Setting up on Ferro (and I don't even have Sub how cool am I) also here's your Clefable yelawolf and look it lives a Hoopa-U Sucker Punch xd - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-321816277
I can't find any more. But you're underestimating Sub+Roost+DD and DD+Roost+2 attacks, its two best sets imo. Mixed is a nice wallbreaker but it doesn't sweep on its own. Banded is similar.
Setting up on Ferro (and I don't even have Sub how cool am I) also here's your Clefable yelawolf and look it lives a Hoopa-U Sucker Punch xd - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/stabmons-321816277
I can't find any more. But you're underestimating Sub+Roost+DD and DD+Roost+2 attacks, its two best sets imo. Mixed is a nice wallbreaker but it doesn't sweep on its own. Banded is similar.