STABmons Viability Ranking

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Has anyone considered instead of trying to split S rank or introduce an X rank, that maybe our rankings overall are just inflated?
I mean, do things like Amoongus, mega-Venusaur, and Meloetta honestly ever get considered at team building as top level threats equivalent to those like Aegislash, Kangaskhan, or Greninja? How often do any of you ever look at a finished team and think "Man, I'm really weak to Tangrowth, Excadrill, or Mega-cham" the way you would with Slowbro, Scolipede or Yanmega (in the form of "my team lacks priority")?
By no means am I saying that these things are bad, but I think that they're a lot more niche than we're willing to admit, and that we should consider dropping a LOT of things down full letters that just aren't as relevant or effective as the hype might make them seem, so we can better distribute tier defining mons at the top letters.
 
Has anyone considered instead of trying to split S rank or introduce an X rank, that maybe our rankings overall are just inflated?
I mean, do things like Amoongus, mega-Venusaur, and Meloetta honestly ever get considered at team building as top level threats equivalent to those like Aegislash, Kangaskhan, or Greninja? How often do any of you ever look at a finished team and think "Man, I'm really weak to Tangrowth, Excadrill, or Mega-cham" the way you would with Slowbro, Scolipede or Yanmega (in the form of "my team lacks priority")?
By no means am I saying that these things are bad, but I think that they're a lot more niche than we're willing to admit, and that we should consider dropping a LOT of things down full letters that just aren't as relevant or effective as the hype might make them seem, so we can better distribute tier defining mons at the top letters.
I'm pretty neutral on your point overall, but I disagree with dropping Meloetta (assuming I'm correct in thinking you're implying it should work). While as a sweeper it suffers the same problems every special sweeper does (sableye and fakespeed), it's one of the best special walls in the tier. Let's look at the top ranked special threats:

Landorus:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 169-200 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 225-265 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Landorus can at best 3HKO with its strongest move (with shaky accuracy to boot) and takes minimum 70% from Boomburst.

Thundurus:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 113-134 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 87% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 225-265 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Special Thundurus at best 4HKOs with Thunderbolt, and while it can Taunt to stop Meloetta from recovering, it goes down as fast as Landorus to Boomburst. Switching into Thundurus before its set is confirmed is risky, but if you know it's special, Meloetta easily switches into anything it has and beats it.

Charizard Y:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta in Sun: 225-265 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 166-196 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While it can't switch into Blue Flare, 1v1 it can Recover stall Blue Flare out (especially considering its 85% accuracy) and then takes a pittance from anything else and 2HKOs with Boomburst. One of Melo's riskier matchups but it can still win.

Aegislash:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 115-136 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 96.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Luster Purge vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 81-96 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Meloetta has to Recover a lot but ultimately beats Aegislash; it takes a while for either of them to do a lot to the other, but Aegislash breaks to Luster Purge's Spd drop eventually while Meloetta stalls through Doom Desire + Sacred Sword easily.

Keldeo:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 258-304 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 162-192 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Luster Purge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 204-242 (63.1 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Keldeo is one of the few special threats that can break Melo 1v1 with Secret Sword, but it does come out of the encounter heavily weakened or Paralyzed if Melo is running Glare, and especially becomes useless in the latter case. Scarf Keldeo only 3HKOs with Secret Sword, so Melo can Recover Stall through it after switching in and KO/paralyze it.

Meloetta:

+2 252 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 274-324 (67.8 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 228-268 (66.8 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While it comes out weakened, Melo can switch into itself as it sets up, Paralyze it, and then it can go either way (Melo can Recover Stall a short while, and wins if it gets a full para in that time, but loses otherwise). Even if it loses, the opposing Meloetta can't sweep due to being paralyzed.

Togekiss:


+2 252 SpA Togekiss Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 84-99 (27 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

It takes a while, but Meloetta can eventually break through Togekiss between Recovers (compensating for Owing recovery and potential Moonblast spa drops with Luster Purge) and even if it goes down to a crit or the like, Togekiss is left paralyzed. On the off chance Meloetta is carrying Heart Swap over Glare (a largely inferior but viable and underrated option) it steals Togekiss' boosts and can possibly countersweep itself.

Greninja:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 174-211 (43 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 247-292 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Greninja can't 2HKO with Dark Pulse and is OHKO'd by Boomburst after a round of LO recoil (very high chance anyway).

That's all the S and A ranked special threats--of eight, Meloetta counters five of them, and leaves the last three paralyzed or otherwise crippled 1v1.

I could see Meloetta dropping to A- because of the prominence of physical attackers, but not below that.


...If you weren't implying Meloetta should drop, then uh. Just consider this post a defense of Meloetta in the case someone else questions it later?
 
Vansalon Just wanted to say one thing:

0 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 255-302 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Thundurus can actually beat it with Knock Off. ban thundurus
 
I know it carries Knock Off in OU, but I personally haven't seen it in STABmons at all-the special ones I've fought don't want to sacrifice special coverage/flying stab/taunt for it. I tried to check the usage stats to see how common it actually was, but the link doesn't work for me (something about port errors or something). If someone could post how common it is that would be nice.
 
I know it carries Knock Off in OU, but I personally haven't seen it in STABmons at all-the ones I've fought don't want to sacrifice special coverage/flying stab/taunt for it. I tried to check the usage stats to see how common it actually was, but the link doesn't work for me (something about port errors or something). If someone could post how common it is that would be nice.
It might just be me lol, but I do run a mixed Defiant set :o.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Has anyone considered instead of trying to split S rank or introduce an X rank, that maybe our rankings overall are just inflated?
I mean, do things like Amoongus, mega-Venusaur, and Meloetta honestly ever get considered at team building as top level threats equivalent to those like Aegislash, Kangaskhan, or Greninja? How often do any of you ever look at a finished team and think "Man, I'm really weak to Tangrowth, Excadrill, or Mega-cham" the way you would with Slowbro, Scolipede or Yanmega (in the form of "my team lacks priority")?
By no means am I saying that these things are bad, but I think that they're a lot more niche than we're willing to admit, and that we should consider dropping a LOT of things down full letters that just aren't as relevant or effective as the hype might make them seem, so we can better distribute tier defining mons at the top letters.
Could you provide some more examples Ellipse? Not being snide--I need to know more specifics. Overall I get your point, though.

Maybe instead of introducing X/splitting S, we utilize E rank. Make that the new D and effectively start shifting things downward as needed, which would make A more elite and S the true gods of STABmons. Tagging the council for input unfixable w0rd DinaIsha Vansalon The Reptile Pikachuun Scarfnaut

I'd also like to introduce another non-ranked thread.
(rank pending)
Ever since the Locked Up challenge last month, I've been seeing more of this guy. The advent of ORAS has only made it more relevant. One reason is Scizor, who definitely got better with ORAS since it can eliminate a rogue Maltaria--among other things weak to Steel--with Bullet Punch. Word has even said that Swords Dance is more viable than Shift Gear now because Bullet Punch is so useful. Essentially, the better Fairies get, the better Scizor gets ... and hence this little toaster!

Fire/Electric typing with Levitate means it's only weak to Rock and Water. Sure, a SR weakness is a huge buzzkill, but look at its resistances. 4x resists Steel and 2x to Electric, Bug, Fairy, Grass, Flying, and Ice. Not only can it freely absorb Scizor's STABs for days, it makes a nice check to Zard-Y, Thundurus, Togekiss, both Landorus (more so Therian tho), Heatran (doesn't do much back however), Talonflame, Altaria (risky tho), Magnezone, and Yanmega to name just a few. Besides a SR weakness, it lacks reliable recovery so it can be beaten down over time. It also can't check physical and special threats at the same time as well as it would like to, so you (eevee) generally have to focus on one defense if you plan on having any offensive presence for hitting back.

Good moves include Volt Switch, Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, any Fire attack with a good chance to burn (Lava Plume/Searing Shot/etc), Nuzzle, T-bolt/Discharge, and Trick. Try it out!
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
I would be perfectly fine with E rank.

Also Rotom-H definitely deserves a rating as I can certainly vouch for its effectiveness (I even beat a quag once with its dual stab). I'm not sure what it should be ranked yet though.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I would be perfectly fine with E rank.

Also Rotom-H definitely deserves a rating as I can certainly vouch for its effectiveness (I even beat a quag once with its dual stab). I'm not sure what it should be ranked yet though.
Yeah we need to iron out the ranking system before we proceed with anymore specific nominations imo.
 
While I wouldn't object to introducing an E rank, I'm not sure it's completely necessary. It's probably just easier to move some stuff down.

Some suggestions:
Landorus-I ---> A+ : still pretty much unwallable, but species clause means forgoing Lando-T who is overall more useful
Sableye ---> A+ : too easy to exploit to be S rank imo, not as risk free as the other pokemon in this category
Tyranitar-Mega ---> A+ : still really good, but faces a lot of competition for that mega slot now

Chansey ---> A : too passive and easy to exploit. metagame is more physically oriented
Venusaur-Mega ---> B+ : good, but not really something that influences the metagame
Amoonguss ---> B+ : see Venusaur-Mega

Espeon ---> B- : Not really that relevant anymore, struggles against a lot of common pokemon
Garchomp-Mega ---> B : Whether it is better than regular Garchomp is debatable
Gardevoir ---> C : Outclassed as a Geomancy sweeper. Mega-Gardevoir is better for all other sets
Jellicent ---> C : Not a bad pokemon, but it fills a pretty niche role
Slurpuff ---> C- : Not relevant at all
Venusaur ---> C : Only reason to use it over its mega is Sun which is not the most effective playstyle
Bibarel ---> C : No longer relevant/good
Starmie ---> C+ : Not bad. Mostly outclassed by Greninja and Keldeo as a special water sweeper

Gourgeist-Super ---> C- : No longer fulfills its main role (Countering Diggersby)
Sawsbuck ---> C : Even with Spore, little reason to use it over other Normal sweepers, far too easily walled
Whimsicott ---> C- : not that relevant or good any more
 
I'm fairly neutral on splitting S or making an E rank (I don't think it's really very necessary) but if we have to go with one or the other I'd prefer splitting S.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
I'd personally rather introduce an E-Rank than split the S-Rank but either would be fine.

Also Rotom-H (and Rotom-A in general) are pretty neat Pokemon. Rotom-H is also a good check M-Altaria thanks to its resistance to Fairy and Fire Blast and its immunity to Earthquake. It also doesn't suffer from the same problem Mega Venu does, as it also resists Flying. M-Altaria's best hope is to be running Draco Meteor vs a physically defensive set. It also checks Scizor slightly better than Rotom-W does, and checks a lot of shit. However, if Rotom-W was easy to wear down then Rotom-H is really easy to wear down, which is (imo) its fatal flaw. Still a decent mon, especially in this meta.
 
Eevee General I don't see what E Rank even accomplishes tbh. I mean, the lower half of the rankings you will nearly never see on the ladder as it is, and thus we should focus on higher up. I'm still proposing S and S+, which gives us Elite and GODLY without the hassle of EVERYTHING dropping, ya know?
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Big list of proposals:

Landorus-Therian: A+ --> S
Metagross (Mega): N/A --> A
Altaria (Mega): N/A --> S
Landorus: S --> A+
Sableye: S --> A+
Braviary: C --> B
Magnezone: A- --> A
Tyranitar (Mega): S --> A+
Rotom-H: N/A --> C+
Garchomp (Mega): B+ --> B
Garchomp: B --> A-
Chansey: A+ --> A
Venusaur (Mega): A --> B+
Amoonguss: A- --> B
Espeon: B+ --> B-
Gardevoir: B+ --> C
Jellicent: B --> C
Slurpuff: B --> C-
Venusaur: B --> C
Bibarel: B- --> C
Starmie: B- --> C+
Gourgeist-Super: C+ --> D
Sawsbuck: C+ --> C-
Flareon: C+ --> C-
Lopunny (Mega): N/A --> A+
Pidgeot (Mega): N/A --> C+
Slowbro (Mega): N/A --> B
Sableye (Mega): N/A --> B? idk
Diancie (Mega): N/A --> B+
Missing some mega sprites obviously.
 
The only thing I'm not completely sold on in your big list of changes is dropping Landorus-i but raising Lando-T, but I can see how therian is a more flexible mon so I can understand the choice. Other things that I think should drop are:
  • Azumarill from A+ to A or A- since it just isn't effective enough as a bulky physical attacker to merit its spot (can't do to much to defensive steels for the most part, not to mention that isn't even a very relevant role in the tier), and it's outclassed in sweeper roles by Talonflame, Stoutland, new megas, etc.
  • Charizard-X from A+ to A. It will get 1 kill every time it manages to switch in on something that can't KO it. Downside is an initial 4x weakness to stealth rocks and its best move (V-create) making it a slow glass cannon and forcing you to either sac it or a teammate after each kill. Will admit that stallier teams usually lack an answer to it, so it shouldn't fall beyond regular A.
  • Scolipede dow from B+ to B, it hasn't gotten any worse, but taunts are more prevalent now and bping was honestly all its ever run for.
  • Ursaring from B to B- or C+. May we all remember the glory days of BW when this was relevant, and not outclassed in every possible way by a bunny. Can run fire punch for Skarm and crunch for ghosts? ORAS tutors gave diggs all that, but raised it a knock off. All it has left is play rough for Sableye, but who's not parting shot out off an Ursaring?
  • Mega-Medicham from B- to C or C-, since it still has extreme frailty, mediocre speed, and just not the right coverage or moveslots to run it (elemental punches aren't enough buddy). On top of all this, it now wastes your mega-slot from something like Altaria, Metagross, or Lopunny.
  • Mega-Absol down from B to C or C-. See above, but change speed to "very good", but also bulk to "wet paper-towel".
Also are we sure that Braviary is better than Staraptor? I mean, close combat is better than superpower, and Intimidate is much more relevant than Sheer force and possibly defiant too, not too mention speed is always nice.
 
The only thing Bear has over Bunny is guts, which makes it immune to status. It's a niche quality, but still one worth noting.

And Braviary deserves its rank. Between slightly better bulk, the ability to punish opponents for using parting shot and the fact that it benefits from the ability of one of the best mons and physical tanks in the tier (Lando), Staraptor is outclassed. As it spends most of it's time using priority, the speed isn't a huge issue.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
  • Azumarill from A+ to A or A- since it just isn't effective enough as a bulky physical attacker to merit its spot (can't do to much to defensive steels for the most part, not to mention that isn't even a very relevant role in the tier), and it's outclassed in sweeper roles by Talonflame, Stoutland, new megas, etc.
The ability to beat all the current and proposed S rank mons save Thundurus with its Water and Fairy STAB is why Azu deserves A+. The PerishTrap set is getting popular, too, and with its resistances and bulk, it's almost always guaranteed a KO, if not more, since people still expect an offensive set.

Water is a solid offense type ATM, and Fairy has always been good. It may struggle with some Steel, and the advent of Megagross isn't doing it any favors, but the blue bunny is part of the killer bunny trio. A is the lowest I can see it going.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Defiant is a really nice tool for people to abuse parting shot with, it essentially giving whatever a +3 attack boost. Braviary becomes terrifying when pivoting in on an outgoing Sableye, as does thundurus. Braviary gains extreme power and has priority extreme speed, it really can just wreck something. Thundurus' speed and coverage makes it just as terrifying.


Sableye influences the metagame like crazy. The metagame isn't kind to it because it is so influential people prepare for it, meaning that if it drops and its usage goes down more, we may see its usefulness go right back up in a matter of a month or so.

Landorus-Therian: A+ --> S
Metagross (Mega): N/A --> A

A makes sense for it, as its a very cool mon that has to compete with scizor around every corner.
Altaria (Mega): N/A --> S

So powerful, So S-rank.
Landorus: S --> A+

Losing out on lant, who is one of the best mons in the tier atm because of its versatility, may single handedly make this A+. Lando-i is inconsistent as a whole at times, because hurrimiss misses and oblivion wing sometimes doesn't do enough damage. Against stall teams it just destroys things, but against more offensive teams its just inconsistent
Sableye: S --> A+

Its so influential that the metagame is catered to it. If its usage drops, we're only going to find it in S again soon anyways.
Braviary: C --> B

Maybe even B+. I have tested Defiant pretty thoroughly and its amazing whenever there is parting shot around. A Shell Smash set is pretty good as well because of how offensive the metagame is (and the fact that it has a slightly better speed tier than diggersby).
Magnezone: A- --> A

I like it more at A-. Mag is very matchup reliant, and in all honesty it tends to be almost deadweight against some teams. Sometimes I feel like it would be better to use a steel lure instead of magnezone. It has its niche, but at this time I am noticing checking setup sweepers is more popular than countering them.
Tyranitar (Mega): S --> A+

I don't have that much experience with MTar, so I will leave this to others.
Rotom-H: N/A --> C+

Maybe even B- as this is becoming somewhat common and very effective. With all the offensive steels going around, it is becoming pretty good, as well as having the ability to mess with mega altaria should you choose to dedicate a moveslot for it. Its typing is pretty awesome in this meta.
Garchomp (Mega): B+ --> B

yeah, its competing for a very coveted mega slot right now.
Garchomp: B --> A-

B+ might be better, as it tends to be a bit inconsistent, but I haven't used it too much and have only seen it often. I haven't felt like its that good, but I'll leave it to you
Chansey: A+ --> A

maybe even A-, because there are like 3 common special attackers in stabmons right now and all of them beat it (keldeo, latios, landorus (knock off)). Transform is a nice little buff, but honestly the physical nature of the metagame is NOT kind to it.
Venusaur (Mega): A --> B+

B or even B-; see mega garchomp. Mega Venu is...decent, i guess, and can check mega altaria and most keldeo. Problem is that its not doing too much else right now.
Amoonguss: A- --> B

Should probably be a rank up from mega venusaur, mega slots are coveted atm and amoon has regenerator to help its case.
Espeon: B+ --> B-

B- is a little to far to fall, how about B? Espeon is still a good magic bouncer, and it is great to use it to bait all kinds of mons. I find using it with a defiant mon a lot of fun because it baits parting shot. Its a decent stallbreaker and a cool lure, and it can probably fall a bit, but I am tempted to wait on it going to B-
Gardevoir: B+ --> C

Geogarde would be awesome if it had a better movepool and steels weren't everywhere, but the meta just isn't kind to it. C is appropriate.
Jellicent: B --> C

Aside from the fact there are better keldeo counters out there, keldeo isn't that common, and jellicent is the ultimate fuck you to keldeo and a few other mons. Jellicent doesn't...do...much right now.
Slurpuff: B --> C-

Bellypuff was a cool idea, but its just not that good in practice with priority everywhere.
Venusaur: B --> C

Why was it in B? I guess you can judge this because i would have it in D.
Bibarel: B- --> C

lol bibarel. Seriously, this isn't gen 4. Simple smash is cool but bibarel is pretty much outclassed by any other good normal type with basically no niche over them.
Starmie: B- --> C+

Never used it, so will leave this one alone.
Gourgeist-Super: C+ --> D

Sure its a diggersby counter, but tbh who cares. Its so niche its not worth a teamslot on ANY team right now.
Sawsbuck: C+ --> C-

Old news, its a very niche mon.
Flareon: C+ --> C-

Again, niche as hell. If you like guts v-create and extremespeed, go for it, but imo its outclassed by ursaring as a guts mon who is outclassed by diggersby as a speeder.
Lopunny (Mega): N/A --> A+

Cool Mega that I guess could be A+, although I want to start it more in A. Fakespeed is outclassed by diggersby, so the main reason is scrappy fakespeed with scrappy kick, which is good, but diggersby is used as a revenge killer atm and diggersby counters aren't that common. If Lop took a role other than revenge killer, it could be a nice A+ mon, but I don't see it taking over one of those roles just yet.
Pidgeot (Mega): N/A --> C+

Boomburst + Hurricane is cool, but as was the case with mvenu and mchomp its just fighting for a hard to get mega slot right now. Agreed.
Slowbro (Mega): N/A --> B

Idk what its going to do besides be a catch all physical wall, and it might be decent at it as well. B is fitting.
Sableye (Mega): N/A --> B? idk

C+. See Mega Pidgeot and the others, while its also its base form is much more useful. MB is okay, but espeon is good for that, and Sable-mega doesn't get all that much for it to use to separate its role from regular Sableye.
Diancie (Mega): N/A --> B+

Better magic bouncer than Sableye, can probably be a decent rock polish sweeper or something since it no longer needs to go mixed (should probably go physical with play rough and stone edge, though), and looks like a geomancy set that takes advantage of its speed resistance and ability to force switches could be cool. Overall it may be best in a polish role, because of its lack of good movepool to abuse magic bounce, and the prevalence of steels makes it difficult to sweep. B, maybe B-.
 
Ellipse I don't think you can compare the Landorus formed to each other, the only thing they have in common in terms of playing with them is that you can't use the other. Besides that they're nothing alike.
 
Triple post unfixable
I agree with Landorus-T going to S Rank, it has good coverage, can pivot, has reliable recovery, a great ability, and can even phaze.
Mega Altaria should be moved to Ban Rank, but S Rank for now. This is like what people are annoyed at in BH.
I cannot agree with Mega Tyranitar falling, as it has incredible bulk, great coverage (Ice Beam for Lando, Fire Blast for Ferrothorn and Skarmory, etc), its STABs are great, and even has 80 BP priority. Also resists E-Speed and can sweep with Dragon Dance.
Sableye could honestly drop, everyone knows what its going to do and its offensive presence is very meh.
Mega Metagross is imo better than Scizor, and has the speed to outpace Heatran. Maybe even A+
Venusaur is listed for what reason? I guess sun, but priority is everywhere and sun kinda sucks.
Landorus should definitely be moved down, not enough power and Hurricane Miss is bad. Doesn't like the priority spam either.
Magnezone should be kept where its at. I haven't really used it, but the most prevalent Steel-type in STABmons is Heatran which beats it. Heatran is also a much better attacker in general.
 
  • Mega-Absol down from B to C or C-. See above, but change speed to "very good", but also bulk to "wet paper-towel".
Also are we sure that Braviary is better than Staraptor? I mean, close combat is better than superpower, and Intimidate is much more relevant than Sheer force and possibly defiant too, not too mention speed is always nice.
While I could see it going to B-, Mega Absol doesn't deserve to drop to C; It's the fastest relevant Dark type in the meta besides Darkrai (and eh darkrai) and has effectively perfect neutral coverage in Dark + Fairy (lol klefki), meaning it has moveslots to run Parting Shot, Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Dark Void, or Protect. It has the niche of a fast, strong, Knock Off, still threatens TTar, can Pursuit Trap things like Meloetta, and can pivot out of switch-ins with Parting Shot and go to a counter. With Parting Shot it takes over some of Sableye's pivot role, but brings significant offensive presence. It may not be as good as before with Mega Altaria and Mega Lopunny in the meta, which both tank Knock Off without penalty and can KO it with FakeSpeed, but it certainly doesn't deserve to drop all the C.

Also, Defiant makes Braviary far better than Staraptor. It switches into Parting Shot to get a free +3 and then absolutely nothing wants to take it on (Quagsire is 2HKO'd by Adamant LO Dragon Ascent, Heatran is 1HKO'd, Diggers can't deal very much with Fake Out if its defense aren't dropped and is OHKO'd by Extremespeed, etc). Also as mentioned, it loves Lando-T, dealing 90% with +1 Dragon Ascent, KOing it after Fake Out. Meaning Lando-T that easily is a niche none of the other FakeSpeeders have.
 
Mega-Absol cannot be a "pivot" because that means it has to be able to switch in on some type of attack, which it cannot do. It has an array of offensive toys it can play with and provides crazy amounts of pressure, but the issue with m-Absol isn't how well it performs once it hits the field, its getting it onto the field in the first place, since it can only come in on free switch-ins from either a faint or vs. dedicated stall/defensive staples on balance (Chansey, Skarm, Sableye). Overall it is just an under performing mega, and while that wasn't to much of a problem in XY, the fact that it now has to COMPETE for the megaslot against m-Lopunny, m-Metagross, m-Altaria, m-Scizor (an ACTUAL offensive pivot), m-pideot, and even m-Houndoom (which does basically the same thing as Absol but can at least switch in on Heatran).
 
Unranked ---> C Rank

Umbreon is a very niche Pokemon, but it's really grown on me. It fills the very specific niche of being a fantastic NastyPasser because of its high bulk, good synergy with a lot of special sweepers, and low Speed stat. I've been testing it with Mega Pidgeot, and the two are such great partners and they've been giving a lot of Pokemon trouble. I'm pretty sure w0rd will be able to back me up on this nomination, I used my Umbreon NastyPass team against him (p.s. he only won bc of a Fake Out crit smh ;_;). I'm also looking to test a bulky wall set thanks to its newfound access to a wide variety of moves, namely Knock Off, Parting Shot, and Dark Void. What do you guys think?
 
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