Tera is in the chopping block???
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Cp and the dogs getting banned is going to make the tier a lot better tbh, voted 5 on the 3 of them
If you're a newer player then the Home update can easily make navigating OU a lot more difficult. The best way to deal with all the new mons introduced with Home is to watch a lot of matches online between high level players to get a feel for all the new mons and what sets they most commonly run.
Even with Sneasler being Ubers, I’d also still say Sleep Clause change in some way. Not only so that Sleep Clause can be replicated on cart, but also because Sneasler would still affect Ubers and Uber tournaments too.
I am quite surprised that this post did not get a lot of attention. I think that a move that can put the opponent to sleep, while also being a viable damage-dealing move you could use with no intention of spreading sleep, introduces a new dynamic that warrants reconsidering sleep clause as a whole.
Before Dire Claw, the fact that sleep clause works differently on simulator than on cartridge rarely came into play. The most relevant scenario I can think of is you are facing a sleeping mon and trying to put it back to sleep in the same turn that it wakes up. On simulator, if your opponent switches to a different mon, sleep clause will trigger and you will lose your turn, but on cartridge, if your sleeping move lands, you lose the game. Sleep clause effectively buffs sleep on simulator, but by giving you a chance to achieve a better outcome in a niche scenario.
Now compare this to the buff that sleep clause provides to Dire Claw on simulator. On cartridge, if one of your opponents' mon is asleep, you cannot mindlessly click dire claw or you risk losing the game for violating sleep clause. Even you wanted to click Dire Claw for damage only, you still run that risk. Dire Claw thus comes with an opportunity cost, it gives you a chance to spread multiple status conditions, but you may not always be able to click it, unlike something like Poison Jab. On simulator however, you can always click it. Not only is there no opportunity cost, but being able to click it more often makes RNG-dependent scenarios more frequent, which is a huge part of what makes Sneasler unhealthy.
I realize that even with a more realistic implementation of sleep clause, Sneasler might still be broken. But we should at least test it in a proper environment at some point. This would probably help people accept that we have to ban Sneasler as opposed to Dire Claw only. I would really appreciate it if someone from the council would either explain why we stick to this implementation of sleep clause that directly contradicts Smogon's philosophy, or push for this to change.
I addressed it, that is why I mentioned the sleep clause mod is a necessary evil, that is how it works on cart, just like stactic of freeze, there is not way around it but "modding" as long Game Freak doesn't rework sleep so I believe the sleep clause mod is good as it
Sneasler has nothing to do in ubers as a tier, between Miraidon setting electric terrain, Sneasler damage being low for ubers overall bulk and Sneasler's poor bulk making very unlikely it can use SD makes it very hard for it to do something, the worst part is Sneasler would depend on electric terrain to trigger unburden since the attacks in ubers not only pops the ballon but Sneasler itself too
. What sneasler would do in 50% of ubers games is getting a random burn, regular poison or para while doing just a bit of cheap damage to one of the walls in therival team, which isn't that imprisive.
I voted 4 on hero I think as hero I find to have a little more counterplay as I have stated many times before as obnoxious as it is.
Zamazenta-Hero really makes me wish we had gliscor and clefable already to deal with its crap more easily
I can’t be the only one seeing Hisuian Braviary very often, am I? Hisuian braviary is kind of like a special attacking quaquaval. It usually runs calm mind, esper wing to boost speed and for STAB #1, and hurricane as a high-power STAB #2 with a drawback. Do you think it will dissipate into UU with time like quaquaval did, or will it be a OU special attacker that is dominant for most of the generation?
Drop really quickly
Also has anybody else likes Houndstone Hazard STack? I use gholdengo and samurott, which synergise well with sneasler to weaken its checks
termnal
formerly Lpow12
I have loved braviary Hisui so far this gen, but I can only assume as balance and fat start to come back is will become worse into the meta. However I love it on rain with tera flying thundy cause flying spam just smacks anything that isn't going to get quickbanned (Zama-C) and just in general all of the new flying types feel strong, thundy, braviary hisui, torn-T, articuno and moltres galar as well(idk what magic vert and storm zone used but articuno galar is FIRE) and not many electric mons are popular right now. Once all the stupid stuff is banned I expect them all to get worse as steel types and flying resists start to make their way back into the meta
I don’t know if it is, but it totally should be. Terastallization has pushed far too many Pokémon over the edge, such as Annihilape, Kingambit, my emu buddy Espathra, and the newly crowned fastest QB in history, Regieleki. Tera is a ridiculous gimmick, and I believe that it should go. In the case that this does happen, will a bunch of mons potentially be looked into again?
Boosting Electric type attacks, activating quark drive are infinitely more valuable than whatever Grassy Terrain is.
Nah Rilla itself is an amazing mon that beats a ton of grounds and waters in the meta, gives reliable healing with grassy terrain, especially for mons like Heatran, and weakens EQ for tons of mons like pex and bulky steels. Pincurchin is a total waste of a slot, and while giving mons like Val free Quark Drive is good, it's not enough to justify Pincurchin.
Rillaboom is good as a terrain setter and maybe a scarf wood hammer user, but its not really super great. You can at least get more value out of it than the other terrain setters.
(We need the tapus back game freak please)
Poor Rilla... going from OU threat to "better than Pincurchin" with the lose of Glide.
Talking of a style that love Rilla not getting Glide... what is the common opinión about rain??
For me Rain is strong and can compite with Sun after gaining a ton of new tools on Genies, Basculegion and Watershifu.
The new Genies move never fail on rain so maybe Nasty Plot LandoT with his new "ground- type scald" can work on this squad as a Electric- inmunity plus breaker
Talking of a style that love Rilla not getting Glide... what is the common opinión about rain??
For me Rain is strong and can compite with Sun after gaining a ton of new tools on Genies, Basculegion and Watershifu.
The new Genies move never fail on rain so maybe Nasty Plot LandoT with his new "ground- type scald" can work on this squad as a Electric- inmunity plus breaker
ok but in that case just run electric terrain on something that learns volt switch. pincurchin is ASS
Chris Paul is definitely gone. Finch saying that it would be an "epidemic failure" if it's still here in a week, and the overwhelming support from the survey point to this. I also wouldn't be surprised if sneasler gets banned, the council has been quick to ban things with broken moves in the past (houndstone was one of the first bans of the pre-home meta). Could be zama-c as well, since it was also universally recognized as broken by the survey.
More likely after World Cup. They’ll make a decision to do another suspect test for it.
Are we really doing a repeat of Last Respects again? Dire Claw is an obvious problem and the move should be banned not the Mon. It's ridiculous to think that banning Dire Claw is an unhealthy choice. The move is breaking sleep clause and it'd be an obnoxious move on any Pokemon. Sneasler is a good Pokemon but doesn't warrant a ban on itself when a sleeping attack move was stapled onto it. This isn't a complex ban (Baton Pass history), this isn't dancing around rules to keep in one Mon (BW Excadrill unban), and this isn't keeping in a broken Mon because everyone is used to playing with it (Scald is a Pokemon). There's no good reason to not ban Dire Claw that isn't mental gymnastics
I honestly don't really have a strong opinion on this anymore, but it's not mental gymnastics at all. Sleep Clause is a mod on the simulator anyway. I think Sleep mod altogether is garbage and Sleep moves in general should be banned, but that's a topic for another day. There's a real argument to be had for banning Sneasler over DC, though it has been weakened considerably by the move bans that have occurred lately. Personally I don't see enough of a difference between 1 and 2 Pokemon breaking a move. I'd honestly be inclined to agree with DC > Sneasler at this point but I don't think it's fair to categorize the counterargument as mental gymnastics. There is precedent for it.
termnal
formerly Lpow12
Thundy T is probably just objectively better in this role. Better base spatk, gets both plot AND agility so it can speed boost and is still an electric immunity, however fully special lando on just regular teams could be really fun once chien-pao is gone thanks to it outspeeding base baxcilbur
senorlopez
Formerly Ricardo [old]
Apologies if this sentiment has been discussed elsewhere, but I am curious about the opinions of players who have left the current metagame due to its current state. How are their concerns being captured? What changes need to be made for them to come back to something they would enjoy?
I wonder if there might be an inherent bias in favor of the metagame among the respondents to the survey. It seems likely that those who have left the competitive gen 9 scene are less inclined to participate in these surveys, which means their less favorable views of the meta may not be adequately represented. Are the historical trends of battle participation taken into account when evaluating the state of the meta?
Essentially, what I'm trying to convey is that the survey respondents aren't the only ones who care about the current meta, and the positive sentiments expressed may be slightly inflated imo.
I wonder if there might be an inherent bias in favor of the metagame among the respondents to the survey. It seems likely that those who have left the competitive gen 9 scene are less inclined to participate in these surveys, which means their less favorable views of the meta may not be adequately represented. Are the historical trends of battle participation taken into account when evaluating the state of the meta?
Essentially, what I'm trying to convey is that the survey respondents aren't the only ones who care about the current meta, and the positive sentiments expressed may be slightly inflated imo.
why is this a thing people want? online 6v6 singles on cartridge is a miserable experience that we should not be encouraging. besides which, hp percentage mod and canceling moves can't be replicated on cart either and no one is advocating for changing those (and don't give me any bullshit about "they aren't mechanical changes", the ability to cancel a move is a pretty damn significant mechanical change that affects the decision-making process of basically every high-level game)
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