Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[tommytt22]

Substitute Waterpon. Well, if they don't tera at least. But on a surface level look, waterpon can break these guys

CM Iron Valiant? If you drop Encore you could run Moonblast/Thunderbolt/Psyshock. Albeit it's a little dependant on them switching into Blissey instead of leading with it in case of Thunder Wave. Although Booster Energy lets it outspeed all three even while paralyzed...

Too much work maybe. Waterpon might be better.

I've been trying to avoid using a pokemon that in my opinion will be banned but I'll give it a try. maybe i can try wise glasses/expert belt mixed valiant. I suppose curse garg would put some work in also. Thanks for the inspiration

 

[Exotic64]

I know everyone has their eyes on the survey atm but I'd like to ask advice on dealing with a stall core, specifically This one



Individually i dont consider these pokemon a problem. infact even as a pairing i can handle it (eg. specs basculegion can cook the first 2 but not blissey). Its at the point where the sight of this core in team preview makes me want to forfeit, I'm drawing blanks on how to teambuild for it. Ive tried specs basculegion, nasty plot alolan ninetails, stored power quiver dance ribombee, CB hisuian arcanine, Specs zapdos, the list goes on. If there is something obvious im not seeing here please do let me know.

mixed pult counters that core very hard. same with specs too, uturning on blissey/simply switching out puts a lot of pressure on that kind of stall core, especially if you go into a breaker like hoopa/gambit/dnite/rilla/wellspring

 

[viivian]

mixed dragapult? like the HDB pivot set or something else?

I know everyone has their eyes on the survey atm but I'd like to ask advice on dealing with a stall core, specifically This one



Individually i dont consider these pokemon a problem. infact even as a pairing i can handle it (eg. specs basculegion can cook the first 2 but not blissey). Its at the point where the sight of this core in team preview makes me want to forfeit, I'm drawing blanks on how to teambuild for it. Ive tried specs basculegion, nasty plot alolan ninetails, stored power quiver dance ribombee, CB hisuian arcanine, Specs zapdos, the list goes on. If there is something obvious im not seeing here please do let me know.

like exo said, dragapult is very good at breaking this core but beyond that you have CB rilla, CM hatt, offensive tusk, mixed val, specs wake, DD mana, oger, hoopa, the list goes on

 

[veti]

2, this guy got worse overtime, it already had trouble with Gholdengo being double immune to fight/poison, now Gliscor sponges fight/poison while doesn't care about status, while also Iron Moth who also resist poison/fight became big in the tier.

Yeah, the fourth most overall used mon in SCL with a 62% winrate is falling off.

 

[Avira]

As Real_Corviknight indicated, Protosynthesis SpA Specs Walking Wake in sun is good against that core as it 2HKOes Blissey with a bit of chip after using Tera Water. Sure, maybe the Blissey user can pop a defensive Tera for that, but then Dondozo can't react to a big threat on your team with its own Tera.

252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 290-342 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO

If you want minimal prediction, you can use a good Sun team with Walking Wake, MixedPult, or use SpecsPult with strong breakers as Exotic64 mentioned.

 

[Morkal]

Hi everyone; after having been away for a bit due to college obligations, in just three days this meta has broken me. I'm currently running Quiver Dance Stored Power Tera Fighting Ribombee alongside Rapid Spin Super Fang Alolan Sandslash and I cry myself to sleep at night, please help me

Also - my tiering response because everything is pain right now

On a scale of 1-10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame?
7 (I'm a masochist)

On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?
5 (How to lose your girlfriend to hyper offense in 30 days or less)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Manaphy?
4 (Manaphy should have never gotten access to Tera)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Roaring Moon?
4 (I warned y'all, I so warned y'all)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gliscor?
5 (I should have listened to y'alls warnings)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Ogerpon-Wellspring?
3 (Maybe in the future we should worry about him, but not now)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Sneasler?
2 (Not even close to the most worrying thing on the radar right now)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Kingambit?
2 (King kinda lackin' rn)

On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gholdengo?
3 (Here I come I am centralmon)

Hide

Arceus doesn't love me enough to let me die

 

[viivian]

Yeah, the fourth most overall used mon in SCL with a 62% winrate is falling off.

i think people forgot that heatran dropped not because its bad now but because it was in a bad spot before. bax destroyed it, firepon had mold breaker and thus destroyed it and BM luna needs no elaboration. all three of these mons had put tran in a bad spot all of last month but without them, i think its strengths in this new meta are really starting to shine. it has its issues and bad matchups like every mon does, but i still find that it really enjoys this meta and i feel that itll only get better as time goes on

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

i think people forgot that heatran dropped not because its bad now but because it was in a bad spot before. bax destroyed it, firepon had mold breaker and thus destroyed it and BM luna needs no elaboration. all three of these mons had put tran in a bad spot all of last month but without them, i think its strengths in this new meta are really starting to shine. it has its issues and bad matchups like every mon does, but i still find that it really enjoys this meta and i feel that itll only get better as time goes on

gliscor existing still poses a big problem for heatran (and, y'know, basically everything else in the tier) that it didn't have to deal with before the dlc. waterpon, manaphy, and eq roaring moon also destroy it. even if we were to ban all of the currently problematic things in the tier at once, heatran would still have to deal with great tusk, iron valiant (until it inevitably finds its way back onto the radar), walking wake, the resurgence of ting-lu, and plenty more. it's just unfortunately doomed to have bad matchups against too many of the top mons this gen to regain its former glory

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Hey, mechanics update. Sticky Web interactions now match in game, so Sticky Web goes before Booster Energy. First image shows Webs going first if the Pokemon hard switches, second image shows Webs going first if the Pokemon switches after something gets KOed https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1970130723-jroeg2r25poheofitoekdehgonqe1l0pw

 

[Finchinator]

Roaring Moon was suspected in SV OU! For more, check out the thread here.

 

[Finchinator]

I have made a special announcement on the current metagame here:

There has been a lot of discussion about the metagame lately; many people have deemed the format to be less balanced than prior iterations and some have taken exception to certain presences in the metagame. I want to reserve a post to discuss the council's response to this as we do not take these concerns lightly whatsoever. Please note: This post is written from my perspective as tier leader specifically, but it represents sentiments of the collective council discussion.

---

We firmly understand your concerns and many of us inside the council agree with them, too. Survey results will come out later this week and it is no coincidence that more Pokemon than ever have achieved marks greater than 3 out of 5 from the qualified playerbase. This means that a lot more tiering action (likely in the form of suspects, but potentially other things depending on how support fluctuates) is coming in the near future.

The fact of the matter is that these choppy metagame cycles are not always going to be perfect. DLC1 was released in September and it is possible DLC2 could be released as early as November (or as late as February or March). It may not be possible for this metagame to reach an optimized point by November or December just given the number of roadblocks and the abbreviated period; it is more likely that the "best" SV OU is yet to be seen and will come as we have a longer period after DLC2 throughout the remainder of the generation.

What I can promise you as tier leader is that we are going to do everything in our power to continue to improve the current metagame. We will have surveys and suspects at a more aggressive pace than ever, we will have discussions in a more productive fashion than ever, and we will be receptive to your feedback more than ever, which I think is something we have shown throughout this generation and will continue to.

I do not care if this will lead to a reset of sorts with DLC2, making a lot of this a dead-end or moot in the long-term. I will exhaust my efforts and resources to make your experience playing the metagame better as that is my job; it is important that our playerbase understands our commitment to them!

With this in mind, the OU tiering council is more prepared than ever to address tiering concerns. Infastructure is now in place to have a more collaborative and swift tiering response than ever before.

What may this be? For starters, we have community outreach surveys as you likely know by now. These help guide our decision making process and let our informed players help dictate the metagame they are passionate about. In addition, the council is more transparent than ever between regular posts in the metagame discussion thread and occasional tiering radars to keep everyone who wishes to follow informed.

The process itself has been reformed, too. We have a more clear idea of what thresholds in what contexts can lead to suspects or quickbans, which we have applied and will continue to apply. In addition to this, our physical suspects have become more flexible than ever. The Ursaluna-Bloodmoon suspect was shorter than ever before and the same goes for this Roaring Moon suspect, which allows for more potential metagame progression and tiering action to take place in less time. This was adopted in response to outcries for quicker action while respecting the public's right to decide instead of employing overly aggressive quickbans; I believe this will be a successful middleground in some cases. This is not to say quickbans will be avoided so much as we are finding our footing as to when it is appropriate and when it is not.

I hope this helps alleviate some concerns and address any questions individuals may have about our metagame or tiering process. Please shoot me a message on these forums, Discord, or Twitter with any questions and I will try to get to you when I can. Thanks and have a nice day.

 

[Heatranator]

Roaring Moon was suspected in SV OU! For more, check out the thread here.

Fly me to the moon, good choice. Honestly every time there's mention of a suspect test, I'm more excited to find out what song will be chosen.

 

[Bakugames]

Hey, mechanics update. Sticky Web interactions now match in game, so Sticky Web goes before Booster Energy. First image shows Webs going first if the Pokemon hard switches, second image shows Webs going first if the Pokemon switches after something gets KOed https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1970130723-jroeg2r25poheofitoekdehgonqe1l0pw

View attachment 562648 View attachment 562649​

This makes webs a lot better, and also Ogerpon webs HO is gonna go wild. Excited to see what happens.

I'm not sure i'll try for reqs on roaring moon, I'm too neutral on it and it's not the most fun but I'm excited to see the discussion around the mon. I think shorter suspects are the way to go in this meta, could even squish an extra suspect if the dlc releases on dec/jan

 

[veti]

I'm probably not going to get reqs bc my schedule is busier than the last one (and I got 79.9% GXE when the suspect ended), but I'm on the fence of DNB and B. Sometimes moon gets 1 dd and just autowins vs a ton of offense and it doesn't really add any positives to the tier, so I wouldn't mind seeing it go and I could see myself voting Ban.

 

[Heatranator]

Salamence try not to get one of its forms banned from singles challenge. Failure

 

[kosecant]

I have made a special announcement on the current metagame here:

I fucking called it, I’m a certified genius, I’m quitting Pokémon forever now. I’ve peaked

edit: I’ve quoted the wrong post. I retract my previous statement. I was celebrating about fly me to the moon

 

[RaikouLover]

I know everyone has their eyes on the survey atm but I'd like to ask advice on dealing with a stall core, specifically This one

SD Grass types - Ogerpons, Rillaboom, Breloom. At the very least the force Dondozo to Tera.

Knock Off + pivot spam - once Blissey and Dozo lose their boots they just fall

CB Sam-H - I use this on rain but idk why it just seems to destroy stall. Knock Dozo first then Banded Ceaseless does really good damage to Dozo and with spikes will beat it pretty quickly. Then you can Aqua Cutter their team to death.

NP + Taunt / Psyshock - Genies can do this along Gholdengo, Golduck, Braviary-H and a few other mons. You can beat Blissey this way.

Guts Urs or Conk - just too much power even for Dozo to handle

Beating stall is a technique. Keep your breakers (you should have at least 2) healthy and position them well. Stall wants to kill your breakers quickly and will trade if they can because they know Blissey or Dozo can wall the rest of your team at that point.

 

[MisogiKurakawa]

This makes webs a lot better, and also Ogerpon webs HO is gonna go wild. Excited to see what happens.

My country now.

 

[Soiramio3000]

Quick claw is a meme, no one uses it nowadays. I also highly doubt the council cares about quick claw.

Wasn't that meme on the radar when that archetype became popular?

Anyway, I am not trying to argue with you.
I am just trying to point out that the counsil has cared about it in the past.

 

[Jonbot]

Wasn't that meme on the radar when that archetype became popular?

Anyway, I am not trying to argue with you.
I am just trying to point out that the counsil has cared about it in the past.

It was likely on the radar due to it being uncompetitive, since it can just cheese wins if the user is lucky enough. It was less about slowbro-g and more about spamming it on slow Pokemon like iron hands and kingambit iirc

 

[MattC (Banned)]

With the banning of Roaring Moon, can we all agree that Salamence isn't fit for OU? Within time, it will get another form. And that thing will indeed be banned from OU as well

 

[JunkoAJ]

With the banning of Roaring Moon, can we all agree that Salamence isn't fit for OU? Within time, it will get another form. And that thing will indeed be banned from OU as well

I mean, regardless of what Mence forms have been doing, Salamence itself has been UU two gens in a row and UUBL two gens before that.

 

[Eeveeto]

With the banning of Roaring Moon, can we all agree that Salamence isn't fit for OU? Within time, it will get another form. And that thing will indeed be banned from OU as well

A better solution would be to ban Knock Off so that we keep Moon OU and also ignore Gliscor's Spikes with 6 Boots Mons

 

[Ctann]

Cinderace chilling in S tier right now fr, and it’s on its one trick pony set. Interesting meta.

 

[SDK03]

Cinderace chilling in S tier right now fr, and it’s on its one trick pony set. Interesting meta.

This thing would be in UU if Gholdengo didn’t exist and it’s really in S-Tier rn