Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[awyp]

Two things first Greninja will probably get banned pretty quickly as we learned our lesson from Gen 6
Two what are some good cores for the current meta

Nah not happening. I'm going to make an educated prediction that it won't get banned unless Battle Bond is confirmed to be released, but even Battle Bond got nerfed so that might not even be the case that it will get banned. Just because a Pokemon was banned a previous gen doesn't mean the same thing applies, look at Cinderace this gen.

2nd, someone mentioned that Greninja checks Gholdengo

Here's some calcs:

(Modest 252) Dengo Make it Rain vs Greninja

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 132-156 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Realistically if Dengo carries Focus Blast it's not a check, but lets say it doesn't, Greninja can only switch into Gholdengo once with a Make It Rain and then after that it can't take another Make it Rain from a switch-in.

 

[Ctann]

so something thats just occured to me: why are people running + speed garchomp?

I know that sounds dumb, but really, what do you lose out on by going + attack? outrunning max speed volcarona at +0? a scenario that's basically never gonna happen? you still outrun great tusk, and I genuinely cannot think of any notable pokemon that chomp would want to be +speed to outrun.
View attachment 484381

don’t have a good answer for why the + speed, but does + attack hit any benchmarks for KOs?

if it doesn’t hit anything important, speed investment takes precedence

 

[Ibaragi]

i have a question how strong is flowertrick with choiceband+adamant+teragrass+grassy terrain and how much is it with overgrowth
is it comparable to 's choice band adamant strong jaw hitting first ficious rend with or without rain

Adamant CB Strong Jaw 170BP Ficious Rend under Rain is approximately 20~25% stronger than Adamant CB Tera-Grass + Grassy Terrain Meowscarada's Flower Trick with Overgrow active. Same ratio if you take out Rain and Overgrow (since their multipliers are the same).

I run the comparison through some calcs on the damage calculator, but if we're talking theory and pure numbers:

-Dracovish:
[(90 Base Atk + 252 EV)*1.1(Nature)]*1.5(Choice Band) = 279*1.1*1.5 = 459 Attack
85BP*2(effect)*1.5(STAB)*1.5(Ability)*1.5(Rain)= 573.75 Move Power
459*574 BP = 263466 Final Power

-Meowscarada:
[(110 Base Atk +252 EV)*1.1(Nature)]*1.5(Choice Band) = 319*1.1*1.5 = 525 Attack
70BP*1.5(Crit)*2(Tera STAB)*1.5(Ability)*1.3(Terrain) = 409.5 Move Power
525*410 = 215250 Final Power

263466/215250 = 1.224

Meaning, with all those circumstances up and considering the natural attack of both pokemon, Dracovish is 22.4% stronger. I rounded up the Move Power, maybe the game rounds down, shouldn't have any relevant effect on the calculation. EDIT: also applied Crit multiplier with Move Power. Pretty sure that's wrong, but don't know when it'd be more accurate (probably at the very end of the formula?), and it shouldn't matter mathematically speaking.
The fact that Dracovish is STILL stronger without Tera and with a much easier to produce set-up is truly remarkable. Not to mention that Water is an arguably better offensive typing, or its other virtues like a solid defensive typing and above average natural bulk.

--

I fancied the comparison because I like excuses to play with the Calculator, but theoretical scenarios aside, I agree Meowscarada is definetely a powerful pokemon, offensive Grass is very effective against our current meta and will always be relevant with how common Tera-Water is, the abundance of strong Ground types in OU and the utility of ignoring Bulk Up/Iron Defense boosts. And while it's too early to say, and while I don't think nerfed Greninja and Meowscarada will be particularly comparable in their roles, I honestly doubt Greninja will be the better of the two. Maybe better using Protean, but not a better mon for our current meta, I'd say.

 

[Mewthree69]

don’t have a good answer for why the + speed, but does + attack hit any benchmarks for KOs?

if it doesn’t hit anything important, speed investment takes precedence

Some relevant calcs I found:

Calcs

0+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gholdengo: 308-366 (97.7 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
28+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gholdengo: 318-374 (100.9 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-188 (51.9 - 61.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 461-547 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO 252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 198-234 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (97 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

4+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 153-181 (41.2 - 48.7%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

+Speed was obviously far better when Chi-Yu and Annihilape were still in the tier, but not anymore I think.

 

[Vurnoise]

Find it sort of funny that we'll now have a trio of fast protean/libero mons, all forming a fire/water/grass core.

A thing of note is that Meowscarada is still remaining as the fastest protean user, which means that it could get a slight boost in viability as a check to Greninja, due to outspeeding it and resisting both it's stabs. Not only that, but Greninja also has to compete with Meowscarda for a role of spiker.

Overall Greninja is almost definitely going to come out as the premier Protean abuser, but I feel hopeful for meowscarada getting somewhat better :)

Feels like Meowscarada will be the Choice Band premier user with Flower Gift Cinderace the HDB hazards controller (Court Change) and Greninja the versatile LO Mixed Attacker or Specs with priority Shuriken.

Will be interesting for sure though...just need to find another beast ball ASAP for my frog

 

[Red Raven]

don’t have a good answer for why the + speed, but does + attack hit any benchmarks for KOs?

if it doesn’t hit anything important, speed investment takes precedence

Well, it nearly one shots Chinese Weavile with tera ground eq and some others with some chip

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 288-340 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 260-308 (89.9 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 304-358 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 172-204 (41.8 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Wolf-X]

Well, it nearly one shots Chinese Weavile with tera ground eq and some others with some chip

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 288-340 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 260-308 (89.9 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 304-358 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 172-204 (41.8 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You just gave further proof that adamant garchomp is no good lol. If anything BANDED might be decent, but still worse than the usual sets. Imo garchomp strongest set its the mixed lead one with fire blast.

 

[Athyestic]

This is a bit random, but I've been trying to make work and it's just so...
Racheal (Lilligant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fairy/Ground/Ice/Electric/Fire/Fighting/Rock/Flying/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- Synthesis

Pick your tera type and pick what you'd like to be hard stopped by. Fairy loses to all of the steels in the meta, Ground loses to any flying type (bonus points for letting DNite ddance for free), Ice loses to any fire or steel type, Electric to any Dragon or grass type, Fire to any dragon or fire type, etc. Not getting any coverage really is the nail in the coffin for her.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Nah not happening. I'm going to make an educated prediction that it won't get banned unless Battle Bond is confirmed to be released, but even Battle Bond got nerfed so that might not even be the case that it will get banned. Just because a Pokemon was banned a previous gen doesn't mean the same thing applies, look at Cinderace this gen.

2nd, someone mentioned that Greninja checks Gholdengo

Here's some calcs:

(Modest 252) Dengo Make it Rain vs Greninja

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 132-156 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Realistically if Dengo carries Focus Blast it's not a check, but lets say it doesn't, Greninja can only switch into Gholdengo once with a Make It Rain and then after that it can't take another Make it Rain from a switch-in.

Battle Bond Greninja won't be available until Home update

 

[Ehmcee]

Battle Bond Greninja won't be available until Home update

It seems to currently be unconfirmed wether this Greninja is a standard Greninja, or a Battle Bond Greninja (They're technically two seperate pokemon).
Standard Greninja has a Torrent base ability with the protean hidden ability, while Battle Bond Greninja is stuck with Battle Bond exclusively and additionally cannot Breed.

While odds are it will be standard Greninja, it is not confirmed as of yet. (I believe, according to the orange islands thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/jan-feb-7-event-greninja-poison-tera.3714327/#post-9473319)

 

[Eeveeto]

This is a bit random, but I've been trying to make work and it's just so...
Racheal (Lilligant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fairy/Ground/Ice/Electric/Fire/Fighting/Rock/Flying/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- Synthesis

Pick your tera type and pick what you'd like to be hard stopped by. Fairy loses to all of the steels in the meta, Ground loses to any flying type (bonus points for letting DNite ddance for free), Ice loses to any fire or steel type, Electric to any Dragon or grass type, Fire to any dragon or fire type, etc. Not getting any coverage really is the nail in the coffin for her.

Considering Gholdengo is the highest ranked Mon in the VR and can cripple Lilligant in many ways (Trick, Thunder Wave, Nasty Plot, etc.), the Tera has to be one that beats Gholdengo, which really leaves only 4 options (though Electric and Water have merits too). However, Lilligant gets another offensive Move, Pollen Puff. Pollen Puff, beats Dark types. Based on that, if I were to try Lilligant in OU, this is what it would look like:

Racheal (Lilligant) @ Leftovers / Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- Pollen Puff

Being a Ghost, now Lligant has these match-ups vs VR from S to B+ (provided it safely has boosted vs something like Rotom-W):

Gholdengo: Mostly defeated by Tera Ghost.
Dragapult: At +1, Lilligant wins, except some weird Tera + Band.
Tusk: Stab Giga Drain. Of course, he can Tera, but at least you forced him to do it.
Chien Pao: Ok, you lose this one if it Sucker Punches you. However, its still a guessing game if Lilli has still the Grass typing when the cat comes. Banded Ice Shard doesn,t KO Ghost Lilli. Sucker Punch does OHKO Grass Lilli, but banded isn,t good at running that.
Nite: Actually doable if Lilli is still Grass when it comes, Nite might not expect the Tera Ghost.
Espathra: You lose the 1 vs 1, but it can,t revenge kill you.
Iron Valiant: You probably win.
Kingambit: First hard counter, you can,t do anything to this guy, you omega lose.
Roaring Moon: This beast is bulky enough to wistand a Life Orb less Pollen Puff, so he is dangerous, especially if he Tera Flies, you almost always are revenged by this. If he does not Tera and you have LO, you win however.
Ting Lu: Set-up fodder (except WW, but still gets a lot of damage).
Corviknight: Sdef Brave Bird stops you. Pdef without Brave Bird is set-up fodder. Pdef Brave Bird is an even match-up.
Dondozo: Has to Tera to have a chance.
Garganacl: Has to Tera, but probably still loses if Lilligant is boosted. The rare Poison Tera stops you cold, however.
Glimmora: Mostly a win for Ghost Lilli.
Grimmsnarl: Switch out of this guy, he will put a Screen and Spirit Break you. Or TW.
Iron Threads: If you don,t Tera, you easily win. If you Tera, Knock Off hits very hard.
Amoonguss: Clear Smog stops you. Even without it can be a problem with Sludge Bomb and Spore/Foul Play guessing game.
Clodsire: Don,t even attempt to fight this unless it already Tera'd into a type weak to either Grass or Ghost.
Garchomp: Tera Fire destroys you. Pdef can take +1 hit and use Dragon Tail, but will get pretty damaged. Scarf wins too... but Outrage doesn,t always OHKO. If you predict the Scarf, live and use a second Quiver Dance, you win with Life Orb. Thats too many ifs, though, this match-up is bad.
Hatterene: Weak to Ghost, but dangerous with Nuzzle. Lum Berry is best item here.
Iron Moth: You use a second Quiver Dance and probably win regardless of item. +2 LO OHKOs.
Rotom-W: Set-up fodder unless Thunder Wave or Trick.
Skeledirge: If he doesn,t Tera, he gets 2HKOd. If he does, LO Lilligant has a shot with Giga Drain vs Pdef, but loses vs Sdef.
Volcarona: Can go both ways, mostly favorable to the moth.
Baxcalibur: Band 2HKOs you with Ice Shard, you can OHKO after Rocks with LO after Rocks. Glaive Rush OHKOs without any boost or item.
Breloom: If you are Grass and he doesn,t predict the Ghost Tera, you win.
Iron Hands: Guessing game if you are still Grass.
Quaquaval: Forced to Tera to have any chance.
Scizor: Escape from this guy if Band.
Slowking: Set-up fodder unless TW or Trick Room.
Torkoal: Gets destroyed by Tera Blast.
Cinderace: This guy is still unranked but he is B+ the lowest, so I count him in this list. LO Tera Blast at +1 OHKOs, but he might have Sucker Punch.


Hopefully you have enjoyed the Eeveetheorymoning about a currently irrelevant Mon and can build something good with it.

 

[Athyestic]

Considering Gholdengo is the highest ranked Mon in the VR and can cripple Lilligant in many ways (Trick, Thunder Wave, Nasty Plot, etc.), the Tera has to be one that beats Gholdengo, which really leaves only 4 options (though Electric and Water have merits too). However, Lilligant gets another offensive Move, Pollen Puff. Pollen Puff, beats Dark types. Based on that, if I were to try Lilligant in OU, this is what it would look like:

Racheal (Lilligant) @ Leftovers / Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Tera Blast
- Pollen Puff

Being a Ghost, now Lligant has these match-ups vs VR from S to B+ (provided it safely has boosted vs something like Rotom-W):</p><p></p><p>Gholdengo: Mostly defeated by Tera Ghost.
Dragapult: At +1, Lilligant wins, except some weird Tera + Band.
Tusk: Stab Giga Drain. Of course, he can Tera, but at least you forced him to do it.
Chien Pao: Ok, you lose this one if it Sucker Punches you. However, its still a guessing game if Lilli has still the Grass typing when the cat comes. Banded Ice Shard doesn,t KO Ghost Lilli. Sucker Punch does OHKO Grass Lilli, but banded isn,t good at running that.
Nite: Actually doable if Lilli is still Grass when it comes, Nite might not expect the Tera Ghost.
Espathra: You lose the 1 vs 1, but it can,t revenge kill you.
Iron Valiant: You probably win.
Kingambit: First hard counter, you can,t do anything to this guy, you omega lose.
Roaring Moon: This beast is bulky enough to wistand a Life Orb less Pollen Puff, so he is dangerous, especially if he Tera Flies, you almost always are revenged by this. If he does not Tera and you have LO, you win however.
Ting Lu: Set-up fodder (except WW, but still gets a lot of damage).
Corviknight: Sdef Brave Bird stops you. Pdef without Brave Bird is set-up fodder. Pdef Brave Bird is an even match-up.
Dondozo: Has to Tera to have a chance.
Garganacl: Has to Tera, but probably still loses if Lilligant is boosted. The rare Poison Tera stops you cold, however.
Glimmora: Mostly a win for Ghost Lilli.
Grimmsnarl: Switch out of this guy, he will put a Screen and Spirit Break you. Or TW.
Iron Threads: If you don,t Tera, you easily win. If you Tera, Knock Off hits very hard.
Amoonguss: Clear Smog stops you. Even without it can be a problem with Sludge Bomb and Spore/Foul Play guessing game.
Clodsire: Don,t even attempt to fight this unless it already Tera'd into a type weak to either Grass or Ghost.
Garchomp: Tera Fire destroys you. Pdef can take +1 hit and use Dragon Tail, but will get pretty damaged. Scarf wins too... but Outrage doesn,t always OHKO. If you predict the Scarf, live and use a second Quiver Dance, you win with Life Orb. Thats too many ifs, though, this match-up is bad.
Hatterene: Weak to Ghost, but dangerous with Nuzzle. Lum Berry is best item here.
Iron Moth: You use a second Quiver Dance and probably win regardless of item. +2 LO OHKOs.
Rotom-W: Set-up fodder unless Thunder Wave or Trick.
Skeledirge: If he doesn,t Tera, he gets 2HKOd. If he does, LO Lilligant has a shot with Giga Drain vs Pdef, but loses vs Sdef.
Volcarona: Can go both ways, mostly favorable to the moth.
Baxcalibur: Band 2HKOs you with Ice Shard, you can OHKO after Rocks with LO after Rocks. Glaive Rush OHKOs without any boost or item.
Breloom: If you are Grass and he doesn,t predict the Ghost Tera, you win.
Iron Hands: Guessing game if you are still Grass.
Quaquaval: Forced to Tera to have any chance.
Scizor: Escape from this guy if Band.
Slowking: Set-up fodder unless TW or Trick Room.
Torkoal: Gets destroyed by Tera Blast.
Cinderace: This guy is still unranked but he is B+ the lowest, so I count him in this list. LO Tera Blast at +1 OHKOs, but he might have Sucker Punch.


Hopefully you have enjoyed the Eeveetheorymoning about a currently irrelevant Mon and can build something good with it.

Thanks! I hadn't considered pollen puff as it felt like mostly redundant coverage, but it has its merits I suppose

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

It seems to currently be unconfirmed wether this Greninja is a standard Greninja, or a Battle Bond Greninja (They're technically two seperate pokemon).
Standard Greninja has a Torrent base ability with the protean hidden ability, while Battle Bond Greninja is stuck with Battle Bond exclusively and additionally cannot Breed.

While odds are it will be standard Greninja, it is not confirmed as of yet. (I believe, according to the orange islands thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/jan-feb-7-event-greninja-poison-tera.3714327/#post-9473319)

Given the pattern so far this would be Protean Greninja

 

[carbonlifeform]

Iron Hands: Guessing game if you are still Grass

Iron Hands wins with Heavy Slam if it has band or Tera
200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 278-328 (98.9 - 116.7%)
116+ Atk Tera Steel Iron Hands Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 262-310 (93.2 - 110.3%)

To avoid just being a walking meme: what's everybody using for speed control right now if you're not running Chien-Pao or Dragapult?

I'm finding it hard to quit Scarf Meowscarada. Its ability to check 'Pao, 'Pult, +1 Valiant, +1 Roaring Moon, and more with Protean Play Rough is just so useful. U-Turn, Knock, Play Rough, and Flower Trick is just such a perfect set of tools for it. I keep trying Band, but there's just nothing else I can find that does what Scarf sets do.

 

[viivian]

2nd, someone mentioned that Greninja checks Gholdengo

Here's some calcs:

(Modest 252) Dengo Make it Rain vs Greninja

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 132-156 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Realistically if Dengo carries Focus Blast it's not a check, but lets say it doesn't, Greninja can only switch into Gholdengo once with a Make It Rain and then after that it can't take another Make it Rain from a switch-in.

i assume this is referring to my post regarding greninja? since:

yet another gholdengo check, thank you game freak

although beyond it checking gholdengo, i don't know how else it'll interact with the rest of the metagame, especially due to the protean nerfs and the fact that a lot of pokemon can hit it super hard and/or for super effective damage. and its speed tier, while good, leaves it being forced to switch against pokemon like meowscarada, dragapult and scarfed gholdengo, for instance. i'm really excited to see how this guy plays out in OU though, seems like it'd be interesting to see how it plays out with all the nerfs it's recieved

i meant it offensively checks gholdengo. defensively it doesn't check it all that well because, as you mentioned, it takes too much damage from make it rain to consistently switch into it and it always has to fear focus blast from gholdengo. offensively it actually handles it quite well, hence why i brought it up as a potential check

 

[Gary]

I feel like it's going to be pretty hard to justify Battle Bond Greninja after the nerf honestly. It's a shell of its former self, much more so than how Protean was handled. Aside from the Speed, the stat buffs it gains after it gets a kill put it on about the same power level as Ash Gren, but without all the advantages that made Ash Gren so threatening. Specs Greninja on its own was a massive threat because it was strong enough to cheese through Toxapex/Rotom-W with Dark Pulse flinches, and then it became broken as fuck for the rest of the game after that. Without Specs, it had a significantly harder time finding a kill, but the threat of becoming Ash on its own was enough to provide immense pressure over the course of the match. But now, it's all or nothing. No more insane breaking potential and revenge killing capabilities, no more busted ass Water Shuriken, no more sweating at team preview. Huge loss. While there's no more Ferrothorn, there's still Pex, Rotom-W, Amoonguss, and now extremely good defensive Tera mons most of which will give it trouble. Unless you run Life Orb and enjoy dying to hazards + recoil, have fun getting a kill vs any bulky offense team.

Most of Greninja's viability is going to come from Protean because it can actually be annoying to play around with its good coverage, albeit less consistent cause you know Protean nerf. Otherwise, I'd rather just run a better win condition that has significantly better defensive utility and doesn't require me to play 3D Chess to get the most out of it.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Most of Greninja's viability is going to come from Protean because it can actually be annoying to play around with its good coverage, albeit less consistent cause you know Protean nerf.

Didn't protean Greninja was scarf most of the time anyway? Outside stuff like Z dig for Magearna I don't remember other sets that weren't choice scarf. But yeah, I guess that having less options due the nerf is going to hurt anyway.

 

[Turtlek]

Didn't protean Greninja was scarf most of the time anyway? Outside stuff like Z dig for Magearna I don't remember other sets that weren't choice scarf. But yeah, I guess that having less options due the nerf is going to hurt anyway.

There was a funny set with Groundium Z... Uh no. With Z-Celebrate? No, I don't really see any sets losing Protean outside of Lures and the eventual Boots.

 

[Gary]

Didn't protean Greninja was scarf most of the time anyway? Outside stuff like Z dig for Magearna I don't remember other sets that weren't choice scarf. But yeah, I guess that having less options due the nerf is going to hurt anyway.

Yea Scarf and Z-Dig were definitely the more common Protean sets just because Ash was so good it was often hard to justify Protean otherwise. It definitely had other viable sets but very team specific. Even Waterium-Z Ash picked up at one point.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I mean nat dex showed how greninja is able to utilize boots to use pivot + spikes. Expert belt was a usable option as u can expand ur wallbreaking potential to just nuke hits with super effective hits. And currently it is running a physical protean set in SV nat dex ou. Sure nothing is ofc guaranteed, and everything is speculation, but just some thoughts im throwing out there

 

[Soiramio3000]

Smogon's website should update gallade's movesets.

This pokemon has a niche in OU as a wallbreaker with choice band.

The moves it should run are
Sacred sword
Psychocut
Leaf blade
Ice punch
With the sharpness ability.

This set can either beat or at least punch holes in all ou walls except from corviknight.

 

[Sultan]

Yea Scarf and Z-Dig were definitely the more common Protean sets just because Ash was so good it was often hard to justify Protean otherwise. It definitely had other viable sets but very team specific. Even Waterium-Z Ash picked up at one point.

There's also a Taunt + Spikes set that was good against stall (provided you had something like Lele to pressure Mega Sableye). Pretty interesting that, despite its ban in Gen VI, it became known more for its utility sets, though without the competition from Battle Bond, who knows what would happen. Still, as it faces competition from Cinderace and Meowscarada now, I still think its utility sets will be important for differentiating itself from its competition, though we'll have to see.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Smogon's website should update gallade's movesets.

This pokemon has a niche in OU as a wallbreaker with choice band.

The moves it should run are
Sacred sword
Psychocut
Leaf blade
Ice punch
With the sharpness ability.

This set can either beat or at least punch holes in all ou walls except from corviknight.

pretty sure that set still loses to gholdengo. gallade's problem is that it's forced to choose what type it wants to lose against. knock off sets can beat gholdengo but you have to sacrifice one of the other coverage moves

 

[Soiramio3000]

pretty sure that set still loses to gholdengo. gallade's problem is that it's forced to choose what type it wants to lose against. knock off ).sets can beat gholdengo but you have to sacrifice one of the other coverage moves

Gholdengo isn't that bulky.
You can still use something else against it.
It does not run defensive sets all that often anyway.
also if it terastilizes it becomes easier to punch holes to its defences or even take it down.
(Neutral damage psycho cut on max def max hp gholdengo is a minimum 55%, that's quite the hole you punched to its defences.)

 

[Eeveeto]

Gallade doesn't need Ice Punch though, so a Dark move is better for Gholdengo. Knock has utility, Night Slash has the power.