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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
So many wrongs in y'all tierlists:
- Heatran will never be OU, maybe UUBL, nothing better. Dude's slow af in the current meta, all the Pokemon it's supposed to check learn EarthPower or have coverage for him, and he can't even stall break properly now that he lost toxic! Garbage frog!
- HGoodra is a punching ball that does nothing in return aside from slowly dying and getting chipped by spikes. Why do you all think he is OU?
- HSamurott is outclassed by all spike setters. A wasted team slot on a mediocre weak and fraik mon just so you can set up spikes against Hatterena (whose usage will drop anyways cause we'd finally get good fairys in the tier). Not OU.
- Sneasler will never get banned, just equip the damn cloak GF gave you!
- Cresselia is an unkillable cancer and will ruin OU.
- Tornadus without his utility (defog/knock off) = weird position. Might drop to UU.
People who say Arcanine-H will be higher than RU make me lose brain cells
(Except the Sneasler part, that I can agree with you).
Even without Toxic Heatran is going to be OU for sure, he will perpetuate the OU stablishment (aka making most slow teams with creative Mons bad just by existing). Magma Storm + Taunt + solid typing (which can change with Tera) + big bulk and power + Flash Fire (remember Volcarona? Now it has to be Tera Ground or Water).
Maybe Goodra Hisui won,t be OU, but its gonna be close. The typing is amazing, the bulk too and just Restalk with 2 random Moves is enough for some balances to have. Several offensive sets will pop up too and AV in TR is an option.
Hisuian Samurott hits pretty hard even without Spikes and checks Gholdengo. It can also run Restalk, the bulk is not entirely bad. With Restalk, it can stick around longer to put more Spikes. Maybe not OU, but very viable.
Cresselia has just 8 PPs in the healing move. Its an extremely hard to use Mon and will mostly commit to Tera. I don,t think it will be a top threat, you can,t just slap on any team a Mon like that.
Tornadus-T still has Regenerator and very high Speed. It learns Nasty Plot and lots of offensive coverage. If it drops to UU, its gonna be banned there. We are talking about a Mon that was once Uber.
Idk, losing defog, toxic, super power and knock off sucks a lot for Torn. Maybe with the DlCs move tutors it can get fixed, but those nerfs sound as bad as Gren's.
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luckie
unluckiest player
Couple of things to note for me.
Definitely not claiming to know who goes where for the lower tiers because I don't play them.
Most of this is just guesstimates based on stats, abilities, and moves in conjuncture because I don't know how the OU/UU meta will look like during Home, and I don't think placing a mon in a tier because how they'd stack up against what's available right now is an accurate judgement. TL;DR, I'm looking at the mons in a vacuum, so a grain of salt should be taken.
Urshifu (both) look like actual nightmares to handle. Doubt we'll see Water Bear for long and even moreso for Dark Bear. I'm pretty confident that SD is what pushes Water Bear over the edge, but I'm not 100% certain, as the meta remains to be seen.
A few mons I'm very much on the fence on are H-Goodra and and Mew, honestly not sure if they'll be OU or UU. I think they could go either, but I put them in OU because I feel like their kits might be too much for UU to handle. Again, take that with a grain of salt.
Otherwise, I think I have some reasonable takes? Always down to discuss anything I have misconceptions about though. :>
It rarely used Toxic.
It still has Focus Blast as special Fight Move and Hammer Arm as physical.
Also, it didn,t lose Heat Wave. Corviknight is not safe.
Sneasler is, to me, looking to be Hawlucha on steroids - far better stats with access to Unburden, STAB Dire Claw is frankly straight cheese and one of the most spammable STAB moves I've ever seen. Additionally, STAB Close Combat means that unless your name is Clodsire, you won't want to switch in (but, there are very exploitable ways that Sneasler can play around Clod) - unpredictability with many, many more options than what I listed, boosting moves galore, tera, momentum with U-Turn. Also, Switcheroo, Taunt, T-Spikes, Fake Out, Swords Dances? It will likely warp item choices / and team constructions to an unhealthy degree - not broken because its overwhelming, but because its unpredictability is simultaneously centralizing and pressure-exuding
Sneasler isn't a one-trick pony, it's a whole show, with potentially one of the most lethal type combinations in OU. Regieleki on the other hand, despite being powerful and fast, is said one-trick pony. Tera will be great, sure, but if you're forced to Tera something else to keep your team from getting swept, then Regi can become deadweight against a variety of teams.
Goodra-Hisui will be an OU Stalwart (maybe not top 10, but definitely top 20) because it fixed several things wrong with the original Goodra - its lacking defense stat, and aggravating weaknesses to Ice, Dragon, and Fairy-type attacks. Acid Armor + Body Press can actually be viable in some cases thanks to its new base 100 Def, and it can run powerful mixed sets thanks to a uniquely tailored movepool that gives it options like Earthquake to handle specific threats and more. Steel/Dragon is an amazing typing on a Pokemon with a stats/movepool like H-Gooey (also, Sap Sipper is a fantastic ability that can shut down key threats and key tera variants of threats)
As for Gapdos vs Zapdos - Gapdos I feel is better atm as it'll just naturally exert more pressure. Zapdos feels like it'll be pressured into running more bulky sets as a standard, which will eventually become exploitable.
I could be wrong about all this, but I still think that Enamorus is going to be the most powerful of the Hisui home mons released
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Careful being so cocky with accusing people of being wrong when you've got several things wrong.
- Tell me you don't know why Heatran has been good without telling me you don't know what makes Heatran good. Mon "lost" toxic (lost I'm airquotes because leaks suggest otherwise) and still has all its traits. Still traps and removed a ton of fat shit without even needing Toxic. Heatran shits on Pult, Gholdengo, Edge (get fucked overrated mon lol), Cinder lacking HJK, choice locked Valiant, Iron Moth and Volcarona lacking Tera ground, Skeledirge lacking EP (most), ZoroH... And it easily traps Don, Dirge, Clod, and more with Tera assistance. It's also still as obnoxious to switch into as every with magma storm.
- Didn't put Goodra in OU because I don't know how it'll do, but calling it a punching bag is lol. You can probably fill out sets with coverage and use it to soft check a bunch of shit while spreading damage. Probably a pick.on balance which has Scream Tail, a great fat wish passer that also covers Goodra's weaknesses.
- We're getting all of one (maybe 2) good fairies with Enamorous. Hatt isn't even used because it's a fairy. Fairy typing is mostly an afterthought. It's used for its hazard blocking aspects. Hamurott isn't weak thanks to the boost to its attacks via Sharpness, and being able to actively set spikes and do good damage while being difficult to block is HUGE. It's frail but so are many great mons. It's nowhere outclassed by all spikes setters when so many invite in Great Tusk to spin. Hamu doesn't and it generates fast pressure.
- Covert Cloak sucks garbage.
- TornT still has a great defensive and offensive profile thanks to regenerator. It helps pivot around lots of prominent fighting types so it will still be good. (And again, assuming it loses moves with leaks saying otherwise).
Tornadus-T still has Heat Wave
Changed, also, Rilla has a niche on UU without glide? On paper, Arboliva looks better IMO.
Lol, no. Probably its not an OU Mon anymore, but:
1. It has Knock Off in a generation with few users of the move.
2. It has U-Turn.
3. It disrupts EQs just by being on the field 1 turn without getting hit (unlike Arboliva who needs to take damage for it). In OU this means Tusk now won,t be damaging shit with EQ, TOXAPEX will wall it (not Headlong Rush though).
4. It lost Superpower, but still has Fight coverage in Hammer Arm and Drain Punch.
5. Band Wood Hammer is still extremely powerful. Band vs slow teams or Scarf vs fast teams, choose what you want to kill.
Additionally, its a good Tera Blast user, breaking Grass resists with the right typing.
As I said, its probably not going to be OU by usage, but its still a very useful Mon. Priority Grassy Glide its not the end of the world (and probably the move will come back in form of Tutor anyway at some point). I do see it solid UU and much better than Arboliva there or in OU.
Without Grassy Glide, Rillaboom reminds me of Tapu Bulu from Gen 7 OU minus the Fairy-typing, Horn Leech, and Nature's Madness, but has Knock Off, U-turn, and Tera to make up for those shortcomings. I don't see how some people are saying it'll be NU / PUBL, like what? 
notes:
-no idea why kleavor gets as much hype as it does. it thuds so hard into tusk and gholdengo with its stabs + cc, and you definetly want that fourth slot for shit like sd or u-turn.
-delphox is looking crazy in the lower tiers. np with a good speed stat and coverage? sign me up.
-samurott-h is OU 100% argue w the wall
-not sure if cress could be banworthy. on one hand cm and tera could be annoying but scream tail and tinkaton are gonna annoy the shit out of it. think of it as a slower shittier espathra ig
Just as an fyi, so does every non-Strength Sap healing move this gen. Cresselia is no longer outclassed in this regard as a result. Not saying this to disagree with your overall points or anything, just figured it was important to note.
Personal thoughts (does anybody actually read these?):
Arcanine-H
Looking at all these tier lists I was surprised at the number of people putting Arcanine-H in UU. I get that it's the same typing as Magcargo, but y'all are seriously underestimating how much damage it does. Seriously, nothing in UU can even hope to counter it defensively:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 198-233 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's about the bulkiest thing that naturally resists its STAB combo, and it completely shits all over it. Some things could maybe kinda check it if they burn their Tera (I.E. Tera Ground Max Defense Wo-Chien is "only" 3HKO'd by Head Smash), but these will crumple to Flare Blitz and don't have recovery anyway.
Now, you may be thinking that it's like Rampardos: Completely wrecks defense with ludicrously strong STAB moves, but is pitifully useless against anything that, like, clicks attacking moves. This isn't at all true for it. First of all, it gets Extreme Speed, so it has the option to go for Tera Normal Extreme Killer to shred offense, with even the option to slot Double-Edge for Tera'd STAB. It also gets recovery in Morning Sun and either won't wear itself down with its attacks with Rock Head or have a way easier time switching in with Intimidate. This, combined with the switches the threat of Tera Rock Head Smash forces, give it longevity despite its Stealth Rock weakness, which mitigates its weakness to revenge killing. Basically, it's Kind Of A Big Deal™ against both offense and defense. For this reason, I can't see it below UUBL. I can see it being an OU-proper wallbreaker, and even maybe overpowered in OU if we use the same logic we did with Annihilape in that it's kinda crap against offense but completely destroys stall and sometimes beats balance, but it is admittedly less effortlessly balance-destroying.
Edit: also Basculin is going to be banned from LC for the same reason but Wave Crash instead of Head Smash.
Sneasler
Ok, I get where the people who think this thing will be not-busted are coming from. Steels are good and it doesn't have ways to break past all of them at the same time. But seriously this thing is going to be HEINOUS to face in-battle. It's going to be the most Supremely Annoying Hax Mon since Jirachi. Poison Touch pivots will spread status everywhere for its teammates, Unburden Swords Dance is Hawlucha on crack and will pose a supreme late-game threat, and Choice Band can legit break past all the steels that bother it with CC and Night Slash leaving it free to spam Dire Claw. Your game plan against this thing is "hope you run into the favorable set and that you don't get haxxed to death", which is why I think it should and will be banned, not because it's necessarily OP but because it's really good and supremely uncompetitive
Samurott-H
This is going to be bad in OU, because the only niche it has is laying down spikes and dissuading Tusk to come spin on it on HO teams specifically. That's a good-enough niche, I guess, but the fact remains that it has all the other weaknesses of regular Samurott, being mediocre defensively, doesn't hit hard enough (especially as you basically have to run mixed in order to lay spikes while doing damage AND threaten Tusk, as Aqua Cutter doesn't even 2HKO physically defensive set lmao), and it's not fast enough, even with scarf, to outspeed stuff like Pult without full speed evs and a +speed nature which, again, really doesn't mesh well with its other things it's supposed to be doing. Basically, it's a jack-of-all-trades mon with a lot of potentially interesting niches, but can't do all of them at once and they aren't metagame defining enough to be worth the weaknesses of the mon
Kleavor
Potentially pretty good, except the Sizible Incisor exists and basically counters it, which is kinda of a bad thing when it's got 55% usage. That plus mid defensive typing, low speed even with scarf, having to pick its own checks and counters with 4MSS (Close Combat for steels + Gambit, Night Slash for Ghold, U-Turn for pivoting, Defog for shenanigans, X-Scissor for good Bug Stab, the mandatory Stone Axe, Swords Dance, the niche Quick Attack or Trailblaze to try and have a shot against faster teams) and the fact that even if it has the right coverage, it has to predict to use it effectively because of its frailty and speed issues mean that it is a very flawed pokemon that is supported mostly by Stone Axe, which you could just set up rocks normally without such a flawed pokemon with the only downside being that you don't do damage, which doesn't even matter that much when the best removal is 4x resistant to it. It will be great in UU, but not have a good niche in OU.
Edit 2: we definitely need a "disagree" reaction other than just laughing, which is condescending and doesn't always express disagreement
Arcanine-H
Looking at all these tier lists I was surprised at the number of people putting Arcanine-H in UU. I get that it's the same typing as Magcargo, but y'all are seriously underestimating how much damage it does. Seriously, nothing in UU can even hope to counter it defensively:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 198-233 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's about the bulkiest thing that naturally resists its STAB combo, and it completely shits all over it. Some things could maybe kinda check it if they burn their Tera (I.E. Tera Ground Max Defense Wo-Chien is "only" 3HKO'd by Head Smash), but these will crumple to Flare Blitz and don't have recovery anyway.
Now, you may be thinking that it's like Rampardos: Completely wrecks defense with ludicrously strong STAB moves, but is pitifully useless against anything that, like, clicks attacking moves. This isn't at all true for it. First of all, it gets Extreme Speed, so it has the option to go for Tera Normal Extreme Killer to shred offense, with even the option to slot Double-Edge for Tera'd STAB. It also gets recovery in Morning Sun and either won't wear itself down with its attacks with Rock Head or have a way easier time switching in with Intimidate. This, combined with the switches the threat of Tera Rock Head Smash forces, give it longevity despite its Stealth Rock weakness, which mitigates its weakness to revenge killing. Basically, it's Kind Of A Big Deal™ against both offense and defense. For this reason, I can't see it below UUBL. I can see it being an OU-proper wallbreaker, and even maybe overpowered in OU if we use the same logic we did with Annihilape in that it's kinda crap against offense but completely destroys stall and sometimes beats balance, but it is admittedly less effortlessly balance-destroying.
Edit: also Basculin is going to be banned from LC for the same reason but Wave Crash instead of Head Smash.
Sneasler
Ok, I get where the people who think this thing will be not-busted are coming from. Steels are good and it doesn't have ways to break past all of them at the same time. But seriously this thing is going to be HEINOUS to face in-battle. It's going to be the most Supremely Annoying Hax Mon since Jirachi. Poison Touch pivots will spread status everywhere for its teammates, Unburden Swords Dance is Hawlucha on crack and will pose a supreme late-game threat, and Choice Band can legit break past all the steels that bother it with CC and Night Slash leaving it free to spam Dire Claw. Your game plan against this thing is "hope you run into the favorable set and that you don't get haxxed to death", which is why I think it should and will be banned, not because it's necessarily OP but because it's really good and supremely uncompetitive
Samurott-H
This is going to be bad in OU, because the only niche it has is laying down spikes and dissuading Tusk to come spin on it on HO teams specifically. That's a good-enough niche, I guess, but the fact remains that it has all the other weaknesses of regular Samurott, being mediocre defensively, doesn't hit hard enough (especially as you basically have to run mixed in order to lay spikes while doing damage AND threaten Tusk, as Aqua Cutter doesn't even 2HKO physically defensive set lmao), and it's not fast enough, even with scarf, to outspeed stuff like Pult without full speed evs and a +speed nature which, again, really doesn't mesh well with its other things it's supposed to be doing. Basically, it's a jack-of-all-trades mon with a lot of potentially interesting niches, but can't do all of them at once and they aren't metagame defining enough to be worth the weaknesses of the mon
Kleavor
Potentially pretty good, except the Sizible Incisor exists and basically counters it, which is kinda of a bad thing when it's got 55% usage. That plus mid defensive typing, low speed even with scarf, having to pick its own checks and counters with 4MSS (Close Combat for steels + Gambit, Night Slash for Ghold, U-Turn for pivoting, Defog for shenanigans, X-Scissor for good Bug Stab, the mandatory Stone Axe, Swords Dance, the niche Quick Attack or Trailblaze to try and have a shot against faster teams) and the fact that even if it has the right coverage, it has to predict to use it effectively because of its frailty and speed issues mean that it is a very flawed pokemon that is supported mostly by Stone Axe, which you could just set up rocks normally without such a flawed pokemon with the only downside being that you don't do damage, which doesn't even matter that much when the best removal is 4x resistant to it. It will be great in UU, but not have a good niche in OU.
Edit 2: we definitely need a "disagree" reaction other than just laughing, which is condescending and doesn't always express disagreement
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luckie
unluckiest player
I'm definitely on the train that Arcanine-H is underrated as hell, and might end up OU, but after some thought, I feel like it'd be down the line when all of the heinous stuff leaves the tier which leaves room for it to shine. Absolutely see the potential this thing has though, it can for sure be a creature in the right environment.
It's more about utility combined with offensive-type synergy thanks to STAB + Sharpness boosted Stone Axe - Kleavor can actually run a variety of interesting sets, with one in particular that I'm looking to try out upon release being Offensive Utility Scarf
Kleavor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fighting / Dark / Fairy or Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Axe
- X-Scissor
- Close Combat
- Night Slash / U-Turn / Tera Blast
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fighting / Dark / Fairy or Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Axe
- X-Scissor
- Close Combat
- Night Slash / U-Turn / Tera Blast
394 Attack and 403 Speed with this nature / EV allotment - Stone Axe literally sets Stealth Rock just by attacking (Taunt immune setter that exerts offensive presence). The threat of Stone Axe also forces out a wide multitude of threatening mons through sheer power alone.
Stone Axe
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark-Hisui: 262-310 (104.3 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 372-440 (100.2 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ceruledge: 420-494 (118.6 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 440-522 (123.2 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 183-216 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 350-414 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 220-261 (69.4 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 189-223 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 440-518 (146.1 - 172%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 210-247 (56.7 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 200-236 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona: 852-1008 (228.4 - 270.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
X-Scissor
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 259-306 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 168-198 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 225-265 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 234-276 (68.4 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 470-554 (144.6 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 572-674 (162.9 - 192%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 356-420 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 512-606 (130.2 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 1152-1360 (393.1 - 464.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Rotom-Wash: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 211-250 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Close Combat and Night Slash
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 492-580 (123 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 184-218 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 246-290 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 318-376 (100.3 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 262-310 (83.1 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 188-222 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zoroark-Hisui: 262-310 (104.3 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 372-440 (100.2 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ceruledge: 420-494 (118.6 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 440-522 (123.2 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 183-216 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 350-414 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 220-261 (69.4 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 189-223 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 440-518 (146.1 - 172%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 210-247 (56.7 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 200-236 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Stone Axe vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona: 852-1008 (228.4 - 270.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
X-Scissor
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 259-306 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 168-198 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 225-265 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 234-276 (68.4 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 470-554 (144.6 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 572-674 (162.9 - 192%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 356-420 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 512-606 (130.2 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 1152-1360 (393.1 - 464.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Rotom-Wash: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 211-250 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Close Combat and Night Slash
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 492-580 (123 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Garganacl: 184-218 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kleavor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 246-290 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 318-376 (100.3 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 262-310 (83.1 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Kleavor Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 188-222 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
These are just Adamant Scarf calcs - imagine if this thing takes the Scizor route and goes banded. A lot of OU threats are not ready for Bug/Rock STAB offensive coming off of base 130 attack with Sharpness boosting pretty insane power already. Also, this thing gets Defog, Tera Blast, Acrobatics, Trailblaze, and other options too. If it's not at least UUBL, I'll be pretty shocked.
CAP, HEAVY CAP.
Arboliva is not better than Rilla. Rilla has Knock Off which is pretty rare in this meta. So that's one plus, but it also still has moves like Leech Seed, Bulk Up, Fake Out, Uturn, Drain Punch, Drum Beating and Trailblaze. Yeah losing Glide sucks but it's still extremely viable in OU. Arboliva is highkey mid.
Even if I just give you everything: you predict everything they're going to do correctly, and they lose Hatterene to your Ting Lu... you still don't have hazards up and now they get to bring in something that forces out Ting Lu.
If this other player has an offensive team that can generate even a little bit of momentum, you're not getting up hazards.
I do think that in a vacuum, Arcanine-H looks GREAT. However, I get a bit nervous about how it matches into Great Tusk. I wonder if this could be sidestepped with some clever terra play?
It's not a good matchup 1-on-1, but PhysDef Tusk can only come in on Banded Flare Blitz so many times, and Offensive is outsped and straight up 2HKO'd.
252 Atk Choice Band Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 160-190 (36.8 - 43.7%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Arcanine-Hisui Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 213-252 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Well, that is exactly why the rival is using Hatt, that is not exclusive to Ting-Lu.
The issue is that Rilla has to compete directly with Meowscarada that has most of those traits but does it better, trades the terrian for spikes but still has all the other utility moves. Arboliva at least is an special attacker so it fills a different role that Meowscarada (and also has a ghost inmunity). Running Rilla without Glide in OU when Meowscarada exist feels like running Donphan over Tusk. The only niche I can think for Rilla is using it in combo with unburdeen Sneasler.
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