Houndstone definitely has SOME viability that bulk alone is worth something. It definitely wouldn’t be OU though
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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houndstone has some nice traits but that movepool is really apalling, it just kinda sits there and does nothing. wouldn't be surprised if it dropped to nu or below
Houndstone definitely won't have a niche in OU without Last Respects. The 1 thing it can do, check Great Tusk while Spin Blocking, isn't even a good check. You'd honestly be more justified using Haunter since it at least is faster, has Levitate, and after a burn takes Knock Off well. You can also potentially lock it into Rapid Spin with Encore because of its speed.
i think the original post was a little bit satirical and not actually advocating for it having great viability in OU
But also, it doesn't just check Tusk. It actually does a lot more than that. It stonewalls big hitters:
(keep in mind that these things can't just spam attacks on it because it'll burn them, so those 3HKOs are more impactful than they seem
CB Dragonite: 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 118-140 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 41.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
CB Moon: 252+ Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 163-193 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bdrum Azumarill: +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 256-302 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
CB Bax: 252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Houndstone: 153-181 (43.9 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
as well as walling all these things, it also spreads decent damage with Night Shade + Body Press (it can actually stall out Garg this way with leftovers!) and can Tera into a different type to check stuff like Gambit and Ghold (see stomping tantrum tera ground post), Ace, Ceruledge, Chomp, etc.
It's still not "good" per se but it's not absolutely garbage outside of checking Tusk.
TCTphantom
formerly MX42
I feel like maybe if Poltergeist comes back as a tutor move and Houndstone gets it, it could have a niche as a sand sweeper again. The lack of a good ghost stab rn is crippling for the mon. Fluffy stuff will have *a* niche but it won’t be good.
I’m more excited for Basculegion. Basculegion F probably ends up on rain teams for now due to a lack of good special swift swimmers. Your only other option on the special side is Golduck. Basculegion hits harder and has a dual stab, so it probably takes the spot. In theory, we could use Basculegion M as a Wave Crash machine over floatzel, but I doubt it for a few reasons. Floatzel can have an easier time running adamant, closing the attack gap. Basculegion M can’t effectively leverage its Ghost type offensively without Tera on the physical side. We also can’t run Basculegion F with the male, so we probably lean on Basculegion F. I think Floatzel BasculegionF will be a fun dual Swift Swim core for rain teams to mess with.
I’m more excited for Basculegion. Basculegion F probably ends up on rain teams for now due to a lack of good special swift swimmers. Your only other option on the special side is Golduck. Basculegion hits harder and has a dual stab, so it probably takes the spot. In theory, we could use Basculegion M as a Wave Crash machine over floatzel, but I doubt it for a few reasons. Floatzel can have an easier time running adamant, closing the attack gap. Basculegion M can’t effectively leverage its Ghost type offensively without Tera on the physical side. We also can’t run Basculegion F with the male, so we probably lean on Basculegion F. I think Floatzel BasculegionF will be a fun dual Swift Swim core for rain teams to mess with.
There's no viable uses for Houndstone in OU, although it might fall to NU/PU and join Jellicent, Cofagrigus, and Doublade as one of the few good bulky ghosts. Basculegion on the other hand looks interesting. Its viability/usage in OU at least will probably be tied to how meta rain teams are at any given moment, as it has stats comparable to (but better than) a traditional Swift Swim sweeper in Kingdra, and being an offensive Ghost in gen 9 is always a plus.
won't lie I wish we could have gotten to enjoy the chaos of SS+LR Legion for like 1-2 days even if this is a good idea by the council given past mistakes in tiering
The big appeal of BasculegionM over Floatzel is the vastly superior bulk, as well as defensive typing which actually enables it to switch directly into some attacks. I actually doubt BasculegionF will get used in rain, at least as a swift swimmer. You'd be better off with specs Ninja if you want a special rain breaker.
I DO think BasculegionF has some potential as a subCM user though. Take advantage of defensive mons or mons it chases out to sub and start boosting. Or just threaten damage with adaptability boosted stabs.
Earthquake, Flower Trick and Tera Blast among other cheeky physical STAB moves ignoring Fluffy really dampers how much physical mons it can really wall, because people should remember, you wall all contact moves, not all physical. Hoopa also returning when it does and it being able to spam the big 100 BP Dark physical move that doesn't make contact? Get that doo Doo mon outta here.
Quick question. Does anyone remember if the leaked home list was 1 for 1 with the actual home list in sword and shield ? It just seems weird to me the gen 4 mythical aren’t coming in home, especially since every other featured Pokémon in legends is coming.
im by no means saying it’ll be a great mon just that a mon with that bulk and resistances will have some small degree of viability. The ghost and dark spam is gonna hamper it, especially if kung fu bear is allowed again.
im by no means saying it’ll be a great mon just that a mon with that bulk and resistances will have some small degree of viability. The ghost and dark spam is gonna hamper it, especially if kung fu bear is allowed again.
Adaptability Basculegion-F sounds like a wonderful special wallbreaker:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 246-290 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 476-560 (102.8 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra-Hisui: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It cleaves through anything save the eggs
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 246-290 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 476-560 (102.8 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra-Hisui: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It cleaves through anything save the eggs
Read those comments early but was busy and now I tired but want to reply before I forget about them.
"What does Hawlucha has over Sneasler to perform has a unburden abuser"?
Hawlucha has 2 great moves that can solve some match issues: roost and encore. Those two moves in particular allow Hawlucha to either beat some counterplay like getting cheaped down by defensive Pokémon to get in range of a way of revenge killing with roost or create more set up opportunities or straight up stop a huge treat that otherwise would autowin and couldn't be revenge killed with just one turn thanks to encore. A simple example I thought quickly: Roaring Moon is infront of Slowking and uses DD while Slowking uses Chilly reception to Hawlucha and unburden triggers thanks to a terrian that is already set. With tera flying, neither Hawlucha or Sneasler can't OHKO RM however, Hawlucha has the option to use encore to stop the rival sweep. Hawlucha in gen7 often was used like an emergency botton for scenarios like that so it could do more for the team that just attempt to go for the sweep if the match up was good, something I fail to see from Sneasler's side.
Beside those moves Hawlucha has a natural flying type that not only makes a great combo with acrobatics, but also gives an inmunity that can use to set up or just get into the field safely without having to use tera, that makes a huge difference between those two because tera is something that everyone wants to use in the best moment possible and a Pokémon shouldn't be as reliant on it (IMO).
That is just why I believe that Sneasler's role as an unburden sweeper won't be nearly as good as Lucha's was on the mid of gen7, especially considering the powercreep and that the only good terrain setters will be grassy glide-less Rilla (no way it will be OU) and Indeedee.
Also, for today's announcement, I want to share a scenario that came to my mind right after reading it. what will happen if once Home drops Basculin's line doesn't actually gets Last Respects and it stays as Houndstone signature move?
"What does Hawlucha has over Sneasler to perform has a unburden abuser"?
Hawlucha has 2 great moves that can solve some match issues: roost and encore. Those two moves in particular allow Hawlucha to either beat some counterplay like getting cheaped down by defensive Pokémon to get in range of a way of revenge killing with roost or create more set up opportunities or straight up stop a huge treat that otherwise would autowin and couldn't be revenge killed with just one turn thanks to encore. A simple example I thought quickly: Roaring Moon is infront of Slowking and uses DD while Slowking uses Chilly reception to Hawlucha and unburden triggers thanks to a terrian that is already set. With tera flying, neither Hawlucha or Sneasler can't OHKO RM however, Hawlucha has the option to use encore to stop the rival sweep. Hawlucha in gen7 often was used like an emergency botton for scenarios like that so it could do more for the team that just attempt to go for the sweep if the match up was good, something I fail to see from Sneasler's side.
Beside those moves Hawlucha has a natural flying type that not only makes a great combo with acrobatics, but also gives an inmunity that can use to set up or just get into the field safely without having to use tera, that makes a huge difference between those two because tera is something that everyone wants to use in the best moment possible and a Pokémon shouldn't be as reliant on it (IMO).
That is just why I believe that Sneasler's role as an unburden sweeper won't be nearly as good as Lucha's was on the mid of gen7, especially considering the powercreep and that the only good terrain setters will be grassy glide-less Rilla (no way it will be OU) and Indeedee.
Also, for today's announcement, I want to share a scenario that came to my mind right after reading it. what will happen if once Home drops Basculin's line doesn't actually gets Last Respects and it stays as Houndstone signature move?
The issue with a lot this is that Hawlucha fundamentally has one of the most frustrating cases of 4MSS for a sweeper. It tends to exist in OU with varying checks that make it difficult to actually sweep. It wants stone edge for Zapdos but also substitute or taunt for status or haze attempts. Encore is nice if you want to lock in opposing set up threats, but then again you lose to other mons. The biggest issue past that is the underwhelming attack, which makes it worse offensively than Sneasler as a sweeper. Also the Roaring Moon example, Sneasler can threaten to OHKO Moon with Gunk Shot if Moon came in on rocks/spikes. So that's something it has over Lucha too. Not to mention the natural power it has that forced switches which Lucha can't claim.
Regarding Tera if Lucha was more common it would absolutely use Tera just as much as Sneasler, just for set up instead of coverage. But also Sneasler isn't reliant on Tera, it uses it to break the main checks to it and potentially sweep. Barring unaware walls of course which both Unburden mons struggle with.
What do you think of a Choice Scarf Basculegion-M mixed set with Adaptability+Shadow Ball?
Will only work vs some frail offensive teams. Would rather use Band or Specs, with or without Rain. The Mon is bulky enough to wistand some hits from offensive Mons and strong enough to demolish bulky teams.
They're almost entirely different. The Gen 8 list had most of the Gen 7 legends (notably excluding Magearna, which wasn't added until DLC1), The Swords of Justice and Tao Trio from Gen 5, and some other miscellaneous mythicals (Jirachi and Celebi namely).
The Gen 9 list has Gen 3's weather trio, most of Gen 4's legends (I agree that missing out on Darkrai/Shaymin/Manaphy/Phione/Regigigias is kinda odd though), EVERY legend (including regional variants) from Gen 8, the kanto birds, the Genies of the healthy meta (from PLA), and the Gen 6 and Gen 8 starters (Gen 8 had the Gen 1 and Gen 7 starters). Also Meloetta for some reason, I'm sure Zarel is very happy about this ^^
Literally the only mons that are shared between this list and the last one are Mewtwo, Mew, and the Decidueye line. That's it. Everything else is entirely different.
Kingambit is an excellent example of Tera making something go from great to excellent and/or Tera being such a controversial topic.
in theory, you can never really deal with kingambit.
no other OU Pokémon is like this.
this is due to the last man standing playstyle kingambits ability encourages.
An example: you just made a fresh team, and you’re not worried about gambit. This is because you have a Volcarona, body press on your corviknight, Tera fighting on your gholdengo, you’re packing a specs valiant that can 2hko anyway and you’re even teching low kick on your meowscarada. Dragapult is at stake, but it has will-o-wisp in a pinch.
You immediately lose the next game, as well as 25 ELO and a little of your ego, thinking how the hell did I not realise this team is weak to Tera fire gambit.
but that’s all good.. let’s solve gambit the way most people do!
you add a tusk and trade it for meowscarada. Now you’re “not” gambit weak. Except you match up against a nuisance Tera flying that cleaves through your tusk when the matchup is 3-3, Volcarona trades for it, but at great cost, because your utility dragapult and corviknight aren’t able to break down the gambit partners when your 17% Hp Volcarona gets revenged.
you figure Tera flying sucks , but at least you can change the set to a 252/252 impish tusk right?
the next game after your dragapult faints to a trade with the opponents tusk, the gambit successfully lures out your tusk and hits it with Tera fairy Terablast. This eliminates the sole remaining stopgap your team had towards the partnered iron hands, who mauls the team where nothing can 2HKO before being KO’d back.
Well.. you’re gonna solve gambit one way or another, so you determine that you’re somehow gonna rejig the team and fit in both dondozo and great tusk. You’re also gonna run a jolly max speed gambit of your own with low kick. Because fight fire with fire, right?
you’re not giving a fuck about Tera dark gambit. Tusk deals with that. Dondozo can mostly deal with all the fire, flying and fairy ones too. So you’re all good right?
And for sure Tera electric is not even a thing.
the last time you saw Tera grass + grass knot kingambit was in a 1400 ELO game. But you’re better then that, you’re 1600 ELO.
there’s Zero ways you’re gonna lose to a kingambit. You’re gonna wreck every team with a gambit with sheer matchup advantage. You even have low kick + max speed gambit of your own!
but then…
a matchup happens, where basically you vs someone who plays so “stupid”, basically sacking every Pokémon of theirs, one by one.
you’re kinda laughing at how dumb they are, as they only managed to take out your skeledirge lol. And that’s the only gambit weak thing you have.
a few turns go on, you’re at 4 and the opponent just got to 3.
your priority dragonite was forced to Tera normal revenge a runaway iron moth with e speed, and it took some rocky helmet damage from the amoonguss. But that’s all good, iron moth fainted.
Theres4 left. The opponent only has 2, and you got a 50% tusk, 37% jolly gambit and an 87% dondozo with no hazards to chip it, only 1 turn of well-rested sleep on the clock and body press + sleep talk up its sleeve. Ain’t no Tera dark kingambit gonna crank your style. Even if it’s 100% healthy.
It’s now the end game, only the gambit is left. Your kingambit just successfully predicted a sucker punch to KO the opponent on a 50/50
you laugh internally thinking, ain’t no way, ain’t no fucking way this last standing gambit is gonna win.
you think quickly, remembering the opponent hasn’t used Tera yet on any of their team.
so you rack your brain thinking, what would a 2200 ELO 5 time smogon tour champion do in this situation?
the opponents team looks well designed to accomodate for fire or maybe flying gambit. Both are common too
maybe you shouldn’t low kick, because it’s probably gonna Tera. The opponent has seen your low kick reveal in a previous turn.
but then, if it ends up being a Tera dark, your dondozo will get 2HKOd by the 50% boosted kowtow cleave.
tusk will survive a +2 sucker punch, surely that would be a safe bet? Unless it’s a Tera flying.
well.. after some deliberation you determine that it’s probably best that you go for a logical play in all other circumstances.
if it’s a fire type, tusk revenges it anyway. So you don’t care
if it’s a flying type, you need a healthy gambit to sucker punch revenge it + your e speed dragonite. Which means you can dent it now, tusk can dent it with knock off, dondizo should get an attack in, etc. if it goes for the swords dance, it can’t win.
if it’s a fairy type, maybe you should just try and dark type attack it down, for tusk + dragonite e speed or dondozo to roll the dice on it later. You’re not packing iron head because low kick is so meta right now.
so you’ll do the logical play, just attack it with your strongest STAB attack, kowtow cleave.
The turn begins
The opponents kingambit terastalised into the fighting type,
kingambit used kowtow cleave. “It’s not very effective”.
The opponents kingambit used low kick, it’s super effective!
Kingambit fainted
kingambits HP was restored by leftovers.
—
Shut , how did you not think about the Tera fighting type!!!??
Your tusk, dragonite and dondozo collectively fail to KO the gambit, as it easily 2HKOs the dondozo and tusk, whilst OHKOing the dragonite.
“Welp, crap , kingambit is really strong” you think . As you type in GG and then proceed to queue for the next game.
—
—
in theory, you can never really deal with kingambit.
no other OU Pokémon is like this.
this is due to the last man standing playstyle kingambits ability encourages.
An example: you just made a fresh team, and you’re not worried about gambit. This is because you have a Volcarona, body press on your corviknight, Tera fighting on your gholdengo, you’re packing a specs valiant that can 2hko anyway and you’re even teching low kick on your meowscarada. Dragapult is at stake, but it has will-o-wisp in a pinch.
You immediately lose the next game, as well as 25 ELO and a little of your ego, thinking how the hell did I not realise this team is weak to Tera fire gambit.
but that’s all good.. let’s solve gambit the way most people do!
you add a tusk and trade it for meowscarada. Now you’re “not” gambit weak. Except you match up against a nuisance Tera flying that cleaves through your tusk when the matchup is 3-3, Volcarona trades for it, but at great cost, because your utility dragapult and corviknight aren’t able to break down the gambit partners when your 17% Hp Volcarona gets revenged.
you figure Tera flying sucks , but at least you can change the set to a 252/252 impish tusk right?
the next game after your dragapult faints to a trade with the opponents tusk, the gambit successfully lures out your tusk and hits it with Tera fairy Terablast. This eliminates the sole remaining stopgap your team had towards the partnered iron hands, who mauls the team where nothing can 2HKO before being KO’d back.
Well.. you’re gonna solve gambit one way or another, so you determine that you’re somehow gonna rejig the team and fit in both dondozo and great tusk. You’re also gonna run a jolly max speed gambit of your own with low kick. Because fight fire with fire, right?
you’re not giving a fuck about Tera dark gambit. Tusk deals with that. Dondozo can mostly deal with all the fire, flying and fairy ones too. So you’re all good right?
And for sure Tera electric is not even a thing.
the last time you saw Tera grass + grass knot kingambit was in a 1400 ELO game. But you’re better then that, you’re 1600 ELO.
there’s Zero ways you’re gonna lose to a kingambit. You’re gonna wreck every team with a gambit with sheer matchup advantage. You even have low kick + max speed gambit of your own!
but then…
a matchup happens, where basically you vs someone who plays so “stupid”, basically sacking every Pokémon of theirs, one by one.
you’re kinda laughing at how dumb they are, as they only managed to take out your skeledirge lol. And that’s the only gambit weak thing you have.
a few turns go on, you’re at 4 and the opponent just got to 3.
your priority dragonite was forced to Tera normal revenge a runaway iron moth with e speed, and it took some rocky helmet damage from the amoonguss. But that’s all good, iron moth fainted.
Theres4 left. The opponent only has 2, and you got a 50% tusk, 37% jolly gambit and an 87% dondozo with no hazards to chip it, only 1 turn of well-rested sleep on the clock and body press + sleep talk up its sleeve. Ain’t no Tera dark kingambit gonna crank your style. Even if it’s 100% healthy.
It’s now the end game, only the gambit is left. Your kingambit just successfully predicted a sucker punch to KO the opponent on a 50/50
you laugh internally thinking, ain’t no way, ain’t no fucking way this last standing gambit is gonna win.
you think quickly, remembering the opponent hasn’t used Tera yet on any of their team.
so you rack your brain thinking, what would a 2200 ELO 5 time smogon tour champion do in this situation?
the opponents team looks well designed to accomodate for fire or maybe flying gambit. Both are common too
maybe you shouldn’t low kick, because it’s probably gonna Tera. The opponent has seen your low kick reveal in a previous turn.
but then, if it ends up being a Tera dark, your dondozo will get 2HKOd by the 50% boosted kowtow cleave.
tusk will survive a +2 sucker punch, surely that would be a safe bet? Unless it’s a Tera flying.
well.. after some deliberation you determine that it’s probably best that you go for a logical play in all other circumstances.
if it’s a fire type, tusk revenges it anyway. So you don’t care
if it’s a flying type, you need a healthy gambit to sucker punch revenge it + your e speed dragonite. Which means you can dent it now, tusk can dent it with knock off, dondizo should get an attack in, etc. if it goes for the swords dance, it can’t win.
if it’s a fairy type, maybe you should just try and dark type attack it down, for tusk + dragonite e speed or dondozo to roll the dice on it later. You’re not packing iron head because low kick is so meta right now.
so you’ll do the logical play, just attack it with your strongest STAB attack, kowtow cleave.
The turn begins
The opponents kingambit terastalised into the fighting type,
kingambit used kowtow cleave. “It’s not very effective”.
The opponents kingambit used low kick, it’s super effective!
Kingambit fainted
kingambits HP was restored by leftovers.
—
Shut , how did you not think about the Tera fighting type!!!??
Your tusk, dragonite and dondozo collectively fail to KO the gambit, as it easily 2HKOs the dondozo and tusk, whilst OHKOing the dragonite.
“Welp, crap , kingambit is really strong” you think . As you type in GG and then proceed to queue for the next game.
—
This story is told with the intention to reinitiate the discussion about restricting terastalization with the “Tera types are disclosed at team preview” condition.
kingmabit is a great example of why we need it. I don’t think it’s broken outside of this.
however it has last Pokémon standing advantage + 2 strongly viable Tera types (flying/fire), as well as numerous other viable types (dark, fairy, fighting). This makes it right on the cusp of “too good”.
kingmabit is a great example of why we need it. I don’t think it’s broken outside of this.
however it has last Pokémon standing advantage + 2 strongly viable Tera types (flying/fire), as well as numerous other viable types (dark, fairy, fighting). This makes it right on the cusp of “too good”.
—
just a quick edit. Other logical plays on the last turn (the initial end game scenario was written that way for plot purposes):
1. switching to dondozo, getting the 6.25% heal if it SDs and then 1v1ing almost every set (assuming you have bulk up). This play still loses to 2x Low Kicks, but at least you now have 3 ways to damage the gambit (tusk, dragonite and your own gambit). It should still lose tho due to dondozo doing peanuts back and gambit getting 12.5% heal against the EQ tusk as well as 6.25% back against the dragonite STAB e speed whilst resisting your sucker punch in a final 50/50 against your gambit in a last man standing showdown.
2. The 2200 ELO Chad play: Using low kick, not caring if it’s flying/fairy type and goes for the swords dance, because tusk can knock off it’s left overs even against a +2 sucker punch, and dondozo has good odds of versing it. This of course would still lose, as low kick + e speed + EQ + 67% chance at body press or waterfall against the Tera fighting type still wouldn’t win.
3. sucker punch or SD if you really think it’s gonna sucker punch. High risk with a low reward lol.
1. switching to dondozo, getting the 6.25% heal if it SDs and then 1v1ing almost every set (assuming you have bulk up). This play still loses to 2x Low Kicks, but at least you now have 3 ways to damage the gambit (tusk, dragonite and your own gambit). It should still lose tho due to dondozo doing peanuts back and gambit getting 12.5% heal against the EQ tusk as well as 6.25% back against the dragonite STAB e speed whilst resisting your sucker punch in a final 50/50 against your gambit in a last man standing showdown.
2. The 2200 ELO Chad play: Using low kick, not caring if it’s flying/fairy type and goes for the swords dance, because tusk can knock off it’s left overs even against a +2 sucker punch, and dondozo has good odds of versing it. This of course would still lose, as low kick + e speed + EQ + 67% chance at body press or waterfall against the Tera fighting type still wouldn’t win.
3. sucker punch or SD if you really think it’s gonna sucker punch. High risk with a low reward lol.
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Touching grass is not enough i need to defeat every possible tera variant of kingambit
Magearna verdict tonight
Oh shit
if it's anything outside of an outright ban, were in for a lot of fun and by fun i mean absolute terror
It has no viability. It has absolutely zero niche that other OU mons can't fill.
Wrong. It has enormous bulk. With Restalk it will check lots of physical threats. Main niche is to easily spinblock offensive Great Tusk (unless it has EQ instead of Headlong Rush). Nowadays there is no Ghost that can't be 2HKOd by Tusk without Tera, Houndstone is one.
Let her in
Palossand exists.
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 146-172 (39 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Palpssand also sets up Stealth Rock, has better recovery, and can threaten to 2HKO Offensive Great Tusk.
Hell, Rotom (original form) can technically do this too.
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Also if Offensive Great Tusk runs Earthquake, it can 2HKO Houndstone after chip and using Booster Energy.
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndstone: 154-183 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Not to mention that Earthquake Choice Band straight up 2HKOs Houndstone.
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndstone: 178-210 (51.1 - 60.3%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
the difference is that although Hawlucha has some things over Sneasler, Sneasler has the raw power to break past things that check hawlucha. For example, Toxapex is a pretty good Hawlucha check, because it can do this:
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and then haze away the boosts and simply 2HKO it with Surf. Sneasler doesn't have this issue:
+2 252+ Atk Tera Flying Sneasler Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 219-258 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Because it can simply 2HKO the Pex. At best, the Pex will get a haze and some rocky helmet chip and then die to the Sneasler. If it tries to switch out for Regenerator healing, the Sneasler simply sets up another SD because haze doesn't affect the unburden speed boost so you can't revenge kill it.
Hawlucha also either doesn't have or can't fit the coverage it wants to have to aid its setup. It wants Tpunch for Dozo, Fighting STAB for Bax and Steels, Acrobatics, Roost, Encore, Poison Jab for Fairies, Stone Edge for Flying types, and a misc Tera Blast to try and get past at least a few of its checks. It also just straight-up can't hit Gholdengo and struggles with other ghost-types like Dirge as well as the big physical wall Dozo. Sneasler doesn't have most of these issues. It can cover everything it wants to with one of its STABs, Night Slash, and Acrobatics along with Swords Dance. It also mandates Pdef Dozo to check it, because SpDef Dozo is overwhelmed with Rocks support or with the slightest chip. Hawlucha just has a ton of stopgaps that can deal with it on a typical OU team, like Azumarill, Teraing Kingambit and Tusk, Dozo, Gholdengo, Rotom-W, Skeledirge, Pex, etc. Sneasler can break past all of them.
Another thing that makes Sneasler better than Hawlucha is that it's not confined to the role of Unburden sweeper. Take, say, this common scenario that Sneasler got in on a defensive pokemon that it threatens, like Garganacl. The safe play on your team would be to swap to your Dozo to wall it forever. However, the Sneasler happened to be the Choice Band set, does 45% to your Dozo, and you better hope that 30% Poison Touch doesn't activate or you just lost your physical wall and probably don't have anything it can't 2HKO on your team anymore. Even if it does 90%, doesn't get the Poison Touch activation, and you Liquidation to kill it at -2 (which doesn't even happen if it uses Gunk Shot instead), you're still left with a 10% or sleeping Dozo, which can pave the way for another physical attacker to clean up easily.
edit b/c I doubleposted which is cringe:
but choice band and BE tusk don't run EQ they run HLR. Houndstone can also just burn it to avoid the KO. Besides, as the original commenter pointed out, Tusk having to run niche sets to get past Houndstone is fine because most Tusk won't run them.
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