Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

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Moltres in C+ is criminal.

Often moltres feels like it can do most of what zap can do defensively just as well if not more comfortably. It's cleaner against ace and the more common ice spinner gtusks (head smash causes gtusk to kill itself anyways). Burn actually annoys ting-lu, more quickly puts fear into kingambit, and generally is a lot more disabling to the physical attackers it checks. Having a move cook ghold 1v1 also gives its defog an easier time and makes it at least the #4 hazard control mon in the tier (after Tusk, ace, corv).

This is all bonus to what is the most valuable niche imo, which is compressing a valiant check (with lots of spdefc it hecks physical and special variants even with tera) and general physical sponge into one slot. It also helps out in the anti enamorous effort.

Offensively, U-turn + will-o-wisp + fire stab doesn't feel all that much worse than zap on a game to game basis, given the team has sufficient threats to pivot to.

I'm not saying Moltres is better or even close to zap. I'm not versed enough to really push such a hot take forward even if I truly believed it. But I think if any pokemon deserves a big shift up its the fire bird. It plays too similar to a pokemon 6 tiers above it to justify this low a spot. WCoP usage corroborates its splashability, and shows Moltres probably warrants it a spot among the likes of Wake.
 
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I would bet 1000$ that Terapagos Ogerpon Okidogi Munkidori Fezandipiti will break their respective tiers.
Maybe you’re right, but this thread isn’t for speculation on mons not in game, especially not ones we know barely anything of. It’s for ranking the mons we have already in our game.
 
I agree that Moltres should rise but it actually doesn't get defog this gen so that's not a point in it's favour. It'd be used a lot more if it did since it reliably beats Ghold
I swore it did lol. It was also using 5 moves in my head at one time (defog + roost + u-turn + will o + fire move). Lemme remove that real quick :)
 
I agree that Moltres should rise but it actually doesn't get defog this gen so that's not a point in it's favour. It'd be used a lot more if it did since it reliably beats Ghold
Eh tbh loosing scorching sands was much more of a hit to moltress than defog. It was never the case you'd want it was a teams only hazard removal given knock offs prevalences exposing it's natural typing to rocks.loosing sands meant being walled to hell and back by threats it otherwise hit hard like heatran.
 
Eh tbh loosing scorching sands was much more of a hit to moltress than defog. It was never the case you'd want it was a teams only hazard removal given knock offs prevalences exposing it's natural typing to rocks.loosing sands meant being walled to hell and back by threats it otherwise hit hard like heatran.
I feel like moltres defog would've been a lot better considering the loss of knock for so many mons that otherwise would've had it.
Also to not make this a one liner I'd like to nominate CLODSIRE C+-B-/B. While a flawed pokemon, its still a good special wall that can (despite being a poison type) can fulfil a different niche than slowking-g as its more likely to run toxic as well as entry hazards to force progress for offensive teammates to wallbreak/ sweep. It can (for example) switch comfortably into rotom wash even if unaware meaning rotom sinks all of its team's momentum and clod won't mind a burn too much if rotom has will-o. It can also switch into walking wake if running water absorb (another potent pokemon), is a good check to enamorus and volcanion too. Its a mon that I can't rank higher because its ability is what it needs to check like all of these (and loses pretty hard to physical valiant and tusk) listed barring rotom, slowking-g and non specs volcanion but its still good on stall and has a niche better than C+ imo.
 
Moltres in C+ is criminal.

Often moltres feels like it can do most of what zap can do defensively just as well if not more comfortably. It's cleaner against ace and the more common ice spinner gtusks (head smash causes gtusk to kill itself anyways). Burn actually annoys ting-lu, more quickly puts fear into kingambit, and generally is a lot more disabling to the physical attackers it checks. Having a move cook ghold 1v1 also gives its defog an easier time and makes it at least the #4 hazard control mon in the tier (after Tusk, ace, corv).

This is all bonus to what is the most valuable niche imo, which is compressing a valiant check (with lots of spdefc it hecks physical and special variants even with tera) and general physical sponge into one slot. It also helps out in the anti enamorous effort.

Offensively, U-turn + will-o-wisp + fire stab doesn't feel all that much worse than zap on a game to game basis, given the team has sufficient threats to pivot to.

I'm not saying Moltres is better or even close to zap. I'm not versed enough to really push such a hot take forward even if I truly believed it. But I think if any pokemon deserves a big shift up its the fire bird. It plays too similar to a pokemon 6 tiers above it to justify this low a spot. WCoP usage corroborates its splashability, and shows Moltres probably warrants it a spot among the likes of Wake.
Absolutely agree with all of this about Moltres. I'd say it's more like B than C+.

I had been using bulky phys def Volcarona pre-ban and Moltres has a similar defensive profile in terms of what it checks and has worked seamlessly as a replacement. Flame Body procs often enough to not even need Wisp in my experience, allowing it to retain firepower by running Hurricane. It obviously can't sweep in the same way (as Volcarona) but it can pivot freely with U-turn and help keep up momentum while getting useful KO's due to STAB Flamethrower/Hurricane's inherent power.

Some replays of it doing what it does best - pivoting, burning, and KO'ing with Flamethrower/Hurricane.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1904252754-1xic4ncw929m6pgtjlxlc5m4ittppb6pw - takes out Enamorus, Valiant, Gambit and Zamazenta.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1904695589-szz4vw6sm8dp0dckh17mgbpm579qhvkpw - burns Scizor and beats Tusk while maintaining momentum

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1904016852-0rk17708hp8y955a7app6gkm5bfub8npw - tanks a Banded Glaive Rush and KO's in return before coming back in the endgame to clean up with 4 more KO's
 
I feel like moltres defog would've been a lot better considering the loss of knock for so many mons that otherwise would've had it.
Also to not make this a one liner I'd like to nominate CLODSIRE C+-B-/B. While a flawed pokemon, its still a good special wall that can (despite being a poison type) can fulfil a different niche than slowking-g as its more likely to run toxic as well as entry hazards to force progress for offensive teammates to wallbreak/ sweep. It can (for example) switch comfortably into rotom wash even if unaware meaning rotom sinks all of its team's momentum and clod won't mind a burn too much if rotom has will-o. It can also switch into walking wake if running water absorb (another potent pokemon), is a good check to enamorus and volcanion too. Its a mon that I can't rank higher because its ability is what it needs to check like all of these (and loses pretty hard to physical valiant and tusk) listed barring rotom, slowking-g and non specs volcanion but its still good on stall and has a niche better than C+ imo.
Sadly its still an issue for the bird or it would be a fantastic answer to non rock move carrying great tusk aka the lando time forgot. Still a flame body burn would be rather amusing to see. Having tusk have KO really does hurt moltresses use a good tad when zapdos does the tanky bird job better w/o being totally cripple by KO.
 
Sadly its still an issue for the bird or it would be a fantastic answer to non rock move carrying great tusk aka the lando time forgot. Still a flame body burn would be rather amusing to see. Having tusk have KO really does hurt moltresses use a good tad when zapdos does the tanky bird job better w/o being totally cripple by KO.
Knock off is only a problem for Moltres on teams running rocks, a lot of teams right now are running spikes only or no hazards + cinderace (in which case you can elect not to set rocks in exchange for moltres being able to act as a knock off absorber. Tera also allows you to tolerate rocks if needed as well. Not saying Moltres is happy about knock off in general, but it has avenues to circumvent its knock off weakness and still absorb knock off if needed. This said, in a knock off + rocks tusk or a knock off tusk + rocks-from-someone-else matchup you probably want a plan to take knock with someone else which is undeniably a hit to Moltres in those matchups, but it absolutely deserves a bump up to B or B+ imo, it just slots into the meta so well.
 
S Rank:

S Rank


Dragapult
Great Tusk
Kingambit
Iron Valiant
I'm sure it's A B C D E F G H I J K... That means it's Dragapult, then Great Tusk, then Iron Valiant, then Kingambit, Unless it turns out now Dragapult is considered better than Great Tusk, which I doubt it considering the latter is our new Landorus-T.
 
Is there any particular reason why Zoroark-Hisui has plummeted from A- before home released, all the way down to D rank post-home? I understand there's been an increase in power, but it nonetheless seems like a very harsh drop for a meta that doesn't even seem like it has become any more hostile to it

edit: just noticed this has already been asked and answered whoops
 
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Is there any particular reason why Zoroark-Hisui has plummeted from A- before home released, all the way down to D rank post-home? I understand there's been an increase in power, but it nonetheless seems like a very harsh drop for a meta that doesn't even seem like it has become any more hostile to it
Zoroak-H was A- at its introduction but the VR wasn't updated again until home, during those mons not only its gimmick become old, but also some meta changes were bad for it, like Garg's usage and win ratio raising a lot after shed tail's ban, that combined with Ting-Lu and Gambit also being so good made Zoroak's ghost inmunity less valuable since those three could provide more besides checking ghost type pokemon, I would say that right before Home it would be around C+ or C. The power increase is also a big issue because Zoroak was already suffering to get much damage or taking hits, so when it used LO it could get OHKO by even neutral hits, while running focus sash means that its damage output is mediocre. basically for both, offense and not dying it, relies on getting free turns thanks to ilusion but as I mentioned before it already got old and most players can play around it without much issues, it would be unranked but being able to block rapid spin and being inmune to ghost types is enough to make it D tier I guess.
 

658Greninja

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Is there any particular reason why Zoroark-Hisui has plummeted from A- before home released, all the way down to D rank post-home? I understand there's been an increase in power, but it nonetheless seems like a very harsh drop for a meta that doesn't even seem like it has become any more hostile to it
I can’t confirm, but it might be due to the meta simply not needing its talents as much as in Pre-Home. Its partners are able to function perfectly fine due to their raw power and Tera. Home also brought in two new SpA powerhouses in Enam and Zapdos who can break on their own, especially the latter. Teambuilding is more volatile this time around and with it, Zoro-H becomes harder to slot on a team over Pult and Ghold or mons that can check ghosts like Gambit, Garg, Ting-Lu, Muk, Tran, etc.
 
:sv/Greninja:
B- -> A

B- is actually criminal. Greninja has proved itself to be one of the best late game cleaners in the post home metagame, and being able to completely wipe the floor on offensive teams. With Clodsire and Toxapex being less common, with the latter no longer running Assault Vest, Greninja is able to clean up teams far more easily. When it comes to the current metagame, Greninja has a great matchup vs so many powerful teams and archetypes. For example, Greninja can take advantage of offensive teams, especially those with Gholdengo + Samurott. This archetype is built around setting up hazards and using fast breakers and sweepers to win games. Greninja is able to destroy these builds, as these frail opponents are unable to take hits, which allows for Greninja to easily secure a KO, and outrun everything, letting it easily win the game. While Battle Bond is the best set right now, there are some other sets that are often overlooked, allowing for Greninja to have more versatility.

Greninja (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
The plain old Specs set has become a sleeper pick that people often overlook. Looking at the current viability ranking, the only thing in A- or above that can safely take a hit, is a SpDef Toxapex. Toxapex as of right now mostly runs physically defensive sets with Rocky Helmet, which allows for Greninja to break it far more easily. Greninja with this set hits almost everything super effectively, and is still able to nuke things that like to tera into a resist, such as Garganacl.

Greninja-Bond (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam/Taunt
- Spikes
With Samurott being a popular choice of spikes, Greninja has become less viewed as a spikes setter. While Samurott is likely more consistent, using Greninja as a lead still has it's merits. Importantly, Greninja outruns after form of hazard removal that is relevant. Great Tusk is unable to Rapid Spin spikes, as it is at risk of being killed by a Hydro Pump, which allows you to keep up hazards. Cinderace, as of recently has become the main source of hazard removal. Every hazard setter is unable to get off hazards without Cinderace coming in and clearing them, due to it's high speed tier. All but Greninja. Greninja is capable of threatening Cinderace, which makes it extremely difficult for Cinderace to get the hazards swapped, allowing for you to easily set hazards, and keep them up. Lastly, as a lead, Greninja is capable of taking down the likes of Sandy Shocks. Most wouldn't expect a Focus Sash to be the item of choice, so they would freely click Tbolt or Rocks. This can allow you to pick up a KO, and start dealing massive damage, while also being a strong hazard setter. While this set is a bit more niche, it definitely has it's merits, and is something people should consider.

Greninja may not be a perfect pokemon, as it is extremely frail, and can struggle to break bulky teams, thus why I only have it rising to A. B- is an inaccurate representation of Greninja's viability, and I believe that it should rise. Thanks for reading.
 
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From D to C
I believe that in this current meta Pinichurn is very much overlooked in favour of other forms of terrain or just more useful mons. However Pinichurn remains the only pokemon that can support and function electric terrain HO which I believe is a vastly underlooked playstyle right now.

Currently many players are experimenting with grassy seed HO or even grassy seed balance to help facilitate many powerful sweepers. I believe that electric terrain was previously unexplored fully and that D rank does not do it or the playstyle justice.


What changed for Pinichurn since home? (not much it still kinda sucks), the main flaw of the playstyle is that it needs Pinichurn and it needs pinichurn to swap back in which it can only really reliably do on Amoongus, Zapdos and Corviknight. The anti-sleep status of electric terrain is very useful however for addition Sneasler who combined with an electric seed can find a chance to set up safely on amoongus which has become most teams reliable answer to Sneasler due to the threat of spore while taking stuff in sneaslers arsenal very easily


Combined with an electric seed on other pokemon such as Iron valiant, Iron hands, Enam-T, Iron Leaves, Iron moth and Baxcalibur. Pinichurn can provide invaluable support in not only activating electric seed, but providing terrain that activates quark drive and boosts electric moves, the most popular ground types in great tusk, ting-lu, Lando and potentially Ursaluna can find themselves quickly overrun in the face of E-terrain due the potent coverage of mons found in E-terrain combined with a lack of recovery. With the release of home previous ground mons who might have given this playstyle trouble such as Chomp and Clodsire have become much worse in the meta.

E-terrain also has a surprisingly good matchup into most offensive teams due to said Electric seed support providing an additional line of defense.

Pinichurn is reflective of E-terrain teams and I don't think that the playstyle belongs above C+ at most due to the reliance on Pinichurn (shit mon) and the fact that often it needs to switch in and be used multiple times, I do think however that right now it provides an overlooked alternative to the rising grassy seed ho which can be more favourable for certain mons due to blocking Amoongus spore and also activating quarkdrive. Pinichurn has a legitimate niche and can support an underrated playstyle. Pinichurn is a comparable shitmon to Indeedee who alongside Psyspam is ranked in C and I think that would more accurately reflect Pinichurn and Electric terrain ho.

I also believe that Iron leaves should be added to D, it is a viable niche abuser for a playstyle, much like Floatzel, Cloyster, Amarogue and Glastrier. I don't have too much to say specifically about Iron leaves other than it pairs well on electric terrain HO and can help the playstyle muscle past opposing ground types and in my experience is often a reliable way of answering stall.
 
Just a few small noms here

:garchomp: B -> B+
Boasting the same incredible power that had it held in high regard pre-home, I believe garchomp to still be a menace in the current state of ou. As of now it can choose to drop spikes on chain chomp in favour of stone edge for a 4 attacks set that can threaten just about the entire tier short of a couple of revenge killers. Most notable, however, are hisuian samurott ho teams, where it can use draco to take out their lead while blocking spikes thanks to rough skin, while also putting immense pressure on gholdengo - either doing immense damage and popping it’s balloon with fire blast, or outright killing with earthquake. Nothing is truly safe from this beast.

:iron treads: B- -> C+ / C
Can we stop pretending that this thing has a place in the tier and that it’s usage in the tier isn’t an insane anomaly in comparison to its viability?
 

658Greninja

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Just a few small noms here

:garchomp: B -> B+
Boasting the same incredible power that had it held in high regard pre-home, I believe garchomp to still be a menace in the current state of ou. As of now it can choose to drop spikes on chain chomp in favour of stone edge for a 4 attacks set that can threaten just about the entire tier short of a couple of revenge killers. Most notable, however, are hisuian samurott ho teams, where it can use draco to take out their lead while blocking spikes thanks to rough skin, while also putting immense pressure on gholdengo - either doing immense damage and popping it’s balloon with fire blast, or outright killing with earthquake. Nothing is truly safe from this beast.
As much as I wish Chomp could succeed, I don’t second this nom. The issue with Chomp isn’t itself, its that whatever role it tries to fill, something else can do it with more efficiency while providing more defensive/offensive utility. Ground type spike setter? Ting-Lu. SD? Uhh, Valiant, Bax, and Sneasler. General offensive presence? Booster Tusk. Offensive spike setter? Samu-H, Glimm, Meow, and Sandy Shocks are right there. Even as a mixed attacker its outclassed by Lando who also boasts a better defensive presence with its two immunities, fighting resist, and Intimidate.

Defensively it doesn’t check anything besides Tran. Tankchomp gets OHKOd by Valiant, Sneasler, Enam, Bax, Pult, Shocks, Tusk, and more. The mons that don’t instantly drop it, don’t give a shit about Chomp. Zama just shits on it behind a Sub while Gambit can just Tera Flying or Tera Dark to break its spirit.

Unless Chomp gets Scale Shot back or gains DD for some reason, Chomp is gonna have a hard time finding a distinguishable niche other than being a jack of all trades with the ability to anti-lead Samu-H and Glimm.

Now for some extra noms cause alot has changed for me and the meta.

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B+ > A-: Azu is criminally underrated rn. Not due part of its offensive capabilities, but for what it provides in the teambuilder. Its an offensive check to Bax, Wake, CC + Knock Valiant, and Samu-H that also threatens the popular HO teams with strong Aqua Jets. It also has the capacity of breaking holes itself vs teams lacking Amoonguss or Toxapex. The latter of which is not as common as before, plus there is always Future Sight support from Glowking. It is reliant on Glowking to break and it doesn’t have reliable recovery, but Azu is a great anti-meta pick that might also be meta itself.

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B > B+: I honestly really like Glimm as an HO lead, sometimes more than Samu. Firstly, don’t bother with Toxic Debris. Glowking is everywhere and most of the metagame either is immune to Tspikes or runs Boots. Step up your game with Corrosion Toxic and absolutely mess up Glowking’s day since alot of ppl lead with it against Glimm. Spiky Shield + Energy Ball or Dgleam anti-leads opposing Samu. Its arguably more efficient at getting up spikes than Samu-H is due to people sometimes running Zapdos with RH Tusk. Samu-H is generally a better mon, but as a suicide lead, I prefer Glimm.

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B- > B I’m gonna second this nom cause Gren has sort of been making a comeback recently. Water/Dark as demonstrated by Samu-H is a good ass offensive typing, plus the resistance to Sucker and Shard is always appreciated. At +1, Gren outspeeds the entire offensive metagame outside of Unburden Sneasler, Scarf Meow, and Floatzel. Most people’s go-to special wall is Glowking, and most people’s go-to dark resist is Gambit and Ting-Lu who have a bad mu into Gren for obv reasons. I wouldn’t rank it as high as the person who made the nom tho. Gren is still p inconsistent. It only gets one opportunity to boost in a game, its main STAB (Hydro Pump) is rather inaccurate, and it often has to chose between G-Knot for Tera Water Garg and Shuriken for Gambit while at low HP.

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C+ > B-: One of the best defensive checks to Zapdos, Valiant, Wake, Rain, Specs Pult, and non-Sub Enamorus. It is inconsistent at checking the latter, but Clod provides alot on Balance teams over Ting-Lu such as a water immunity, reliable recovery, and the rare Toxic to cripple Tusk and Zapdos while getting up spikes. It isn’t splashable atm since BO/HO are more favorable rn than Balance/Stall, which is why I’m not nomming it higher than B-.

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C+ > B-: Scizor has alot of bad mus, that’s undeniable, but the mus it does excel at are good enough to justify a rise. It can always switch into Bax once or twice and Valiant once to threaten with a strong BP. The abundance of checks it has on BO/Balance also lets it bait them in with U-Turn and generate momentum on a team. It can do the same vs non-Mystical Fire Enam which some players have been running in favor of Sub-CM. The overall meta trends of HO and voltturn cores are favorable to Scizor despite its bad mus and has a place in the metagame.

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C > B-: Another mon I’m shoving into B- tier. I made an entire post about it in the discussion forums, but TL;DR, Thundurus-T acts as a more offensively leaning version of Zapdos that also checks it with the Choice Specs Tera Flying set. Its power is raw enough to 2HKO strong special walls like Glowking who otherwise laughs at other common special powerhouses of the tier. Sporting Zapdos’ fantastic typing, it also lets Thundy find opportunities to switch in and start shit. In conjunction with mons like Cinderace and Glowking, they can form a nasty Voltturn core while keeping rocks out. There is also AgiThundy which is a solid cleaner/breaker on HO teams, especially those that lack answers to Zapdos. Overall, Thundy is an underrated piece of CG OU that while not being as good or splashable as Zapdos, still can provide alot on the right kind of teams.

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A- > B+: Not really fond of Tran in this meta. Other than the Ghosts, it doesn’t really check anything. Offensively its great and provides rocks, but often times it often ends up needing to use Tera to trap some of its targets and B+ is filled with mons that use it religiously (Cress, Hatt, etc).

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B+ > B: Another fire type I’m not fond of in the current metagame. On paper its great against HO cause of Unaware + Wisp, in practice it ends up being overly reliant on Tera to do its job. Everything it is meant to check can beat it one way or another. Enam just snipes it with EP, Valiant clicks Knock and locks it into Encore, Sneasler 2HKOs with Tera Ground Tera Blast or haxes it with Dire Claw, Gambit these days mostly runs Lum and max speed Jolly, so forget about outspeeding and burning it. Dirge can either get 2HKOd by Glaive Rush or get flinched by Icicle Crash from Bax. Yes Skele can check Zama and very well, but so does like half the metagame. If I’m gonna use a bulky fire type that can spread burns, I’m gonna use Molt and if I’m gonna use an Unaware wall, I’m running Dozo, cause at least Dozo doesn’t die to Bax.
 
As much as I wish Chomp could succeed, I don’t second this nom. The issue with Chomp isn’t itself, its that whatever role it tries to fill, something else can do it with more efficiency while providing more defensive/offensive utility. Ground type spike setter? Ting-Lu. SD? Uhh, Valiant, Bax, and Sneasler. General offensive presence? Booster Tusk. Offensive spike setter? Samu-H, Glimm, Meow, and Sandy Shocks are right there. Even as a mixed attacker its outclassed by Lando who also boasts a better defensive presence with its two immunities, fighting resist, and Intimidate.

Defensively it doesn’t check anything besides Tran. Tankchomp gets OHKOd by Valiant, Sneasler, Enam, Bax, Pult, Shocks, Tusk, and more. The mons that don’t instantly drop it, don’t give a shit about Chomp. Zama just shits on it behind a Sub while Gambit can just Tera Flying or Tera Dark to break its spirit.

Unless Chomp gets Scale Shot back or gains DD for some reason, Chomp is gonna have a hard time finding a distinguishable niche other than being a jack of all trades with the ability to anti-lead Samu-H and Glimm.
I find that garchomp’s high bulk, even when using -spD natures, is still good enough to give it opportunities to switch in on something such as ghold and threaten it out. It’ll certainly die coming into attacks due to life orb recoil but it still threatens to set spikes and punch a massive hole.

As for the assertion that Lando t is a better mixed attacker, I kinda just don’t see it? Yes Lando has better defensive typing and ability but there are a couple things that still make me give the edge to chomp. Speed doesn’t matter, both speed tiers are kinda mid so I won’t mention that but instead the moves that are in the mons’ learnsets:

Garchomp’s are better, plain and simple. Lando may have stronger physical moves off the back of its higher physical attack however on the special side I believe chomp has it beat. Draco meteor and fire blast are both stellar moves in the current metagame. The former being a high powered STAB that does respectable damage to mons that would otherwise wall it on 3 attack sets, and fire blast hitting air balloon gholdengo for big damage, if not a kill, meaning it is much more easily pressured and can be removed much more painlessly. Also it learns spikes, which can help both it and it’s offensively minded team exert high pressure on the enemy.

I don’t want to sound like an asshole though, and would like to end this off on a positive note, so could you please tell me more about mixed Lando t sets, I might use it at one point.
 

658Greninja

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I find that garchomp’s high bulk, even when using -spD natures, is still good enough to give it opportunities to switch in on something such as ghold and threaten it out. It’ll certainly die coming into attacks due to life orb recoil but it still threatens to set spikes and punch a massive hole.

As for the assertion that Lando t is a better mixed attacker, I kinda just don’t see it? Yes Lando has better defensive typing and ability but there are a couple things that still make me give the edge to chomp. Speed doesn’t matter, both speed tiers are kinda mid so I won’t mention that but instead the moves that are in the mons’ learnsets:

Garchomp’s are better, plain and simple. Lando may have stronger physical moves off the back of its higher physical attack however on the special side I believe chomp has it beat. Draco meteor and fire blast are both stellar moves in the current metagame. The former being a high powered STAB that does respectable damage to mons that would otherwise wall it on 3 attack sets, and fire blast hitting air balloon gholdengo for big damage, if not a kill, meaning it is much more easily pressured and can be removed much more painlessly. Also it learns spikes, which can help both it and it’s offensively minded team exert high pressure on the enemy.

I don’t want to sound like an asshole though, and would like to end this off on a positive note, so could you please tell me more about mixed Lando t sets, I might use it at one point.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SpA / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute/Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Smack Down/Stone Edge
- Grass Knot

This is the set I am referring to. 228 speed Naive to outrun defensive Zapdos. The rest dumped into Atk and SpA. Edgequake is infamously been a difficult combination to switch into, and the physical walls that can easily eat a hit from it such as Tusk and Dozo get 2HKOd by G-Knot. As previously stated, Lando’s typing lets it get in more often while doing the same job. The only two notable mons that Chomp can outsped over Lando are Zapdos and Sandy Shocks (the latter just uses booster and ohkos with Tera Ice). But that also means Chomp can’t run Rash anymore or it gets outrun by offensive Zapdos, and without Rash, it can’t heavily cripple Tusks at full HP enough to prevent it from spinning its spikes away.

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 329-387 (75.8 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It also generally wants SE or Enam just comes in for free, so the opportunity to run spikes is lesser. Chomp is still good at what it does, but the competition is fierce for what it does and its niche is too specific to fit on many teams in a meta as unforgiving to teambuilidng as SV OU. Teams want speed control, ghost resist, gambit check, sneasler check, fairy check, etc. Chomp can’t really fill these roles but its competition (Tusks, Ting-Lu, Samu-H, Bax, Lando) can.
 
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