Swellow (QC Approved 0/2)

[Ahhhhhh......Clefable.]

If I recall correctly, I believe that swellow is the fastest non-uber pokemon who has access to sunny day (not sure about rain dance though) this generation (deoxys also gets it, but he'll probably be banned soon anyways). Just something to think about. Everyone keeps saying how ninetales outclasses him in terms of this, but you also have to remember that EQ, rock, and water type moves are extremely common in OU, so it will be harder to safely switch him in. Swellow, on the other hand, is only weak to one of these common move types. The other move types he is weak against are slightly less common in OU that the types that ninetails is weak to.

You're forgetting how frail Swellow is. He can't take hits much better than Ninetales anyways, and even if Ninetales gets knocked out as he is brought in, Drought will still get set up. Swellow running weather completely ruins his niche. Also, Swellow itself has ABSOLUTELY NO USE with Sunny Day or Rain Dance, so he should be ignored as an option when fast users like Electrode and Jumpluff can set it up AND benefit from the weather effects.

Yes, Swellow can learn Rain Dance and Sunny Day. Yes, Swellow is fast enough to set up. But Swellow is dead weight on a weather team because of its frailty and not being able to use the weather it's setting up.

Swellow needs to stick with Guts Facading. That is the only thing he can do successfully without being outclassed.

 

[Paradox]

If I recall correctly, I believe that swellow is the fastest non-uber pokemon who has access to sunny day (not sure about rain dance though) this generation (deoxys also gets it, but he'll probably be banned soon anyways). Just something to think about. Everyone keeps saying how ninetales outclasses him in terms of this, but you also have to remember that EQ, rock, and water type moves are extremely common in OU, so it will be harder to safely switch him in. Swellow, on the other hand, is only weak to one of these common move types. The other move types he is weak against are slightly less common in OU that the types that ninetails is weak to.

I'm sick of responding to this bullshit. You clearly need to play the game more to get a better feel for what's effective and what is not. I'm not trying to be mean, but please abstain from posting until you have a lot more experience.

And Swellow is not the fastest (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, etc. Not even to mention Mischievous Heart users). If you insist on posting at least check the very simple facts before you do. And you clearly don't understand the significance of Permanent Auto-Weather over 5-8 turn weather that requires a turn of set-up and switching out.

 

[am zane ok.]

This isn't true, they do the same damage on the second turn, and Toxic Orb does more on the third.

Cumulatively, they do the same damage (1/16+2/16+3/16=3/8 damage in 3 turns, where Burn will do [1/8]*3 or 3/8 damage on the 3rd turn as well). I think that's what was meant.

But overall, Toxic Orb is a better choice. Switch in. Something that counters you switches in. Use U-Turn. A total of two turns for less damage. I noticed myself doing this a lot when I used to use Swellow in UU last generation. I really don't expect it being any better this generation, especially with so many more Steel types in OU (as there is no UU yet).

-Zane

 

[lmitchell0012]

I'm sick of responding to this bullshit. You clearly need to play the game more to get a better feel for what's effective and what is not. I'm not trying to be mean, but please abstain from posting until you have a lot more experience.

And Swellow is not the fastest (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, etc. Not even to mention Mischievous Heart users). If you insist on posting at least check the very simple facts before you do. And you clearly don't understand the significance of Permanent Auto-Weather over 5-8 turn weather that requires a turn of set-up and switching out.

I stand corrected. He's one of the fastest, but not the fastest.

 

[PokéMontage]

I think you should get rid of Roost on the Physical Attacker and replace it with Pursuit, which hits fleeing Ghosts hard. Then get rid of Scrappy.

 

[Paradox]

Cumulatively, they do the same damage (1/16+2/16+3/16=3/8 damage in 3 turns, where Burn will do [1/8]*3 or 3/8 damage on the 3rd turn as well). I think that's what was meant.

But overall, Toxic Orb is a better choice. Switch in. Something that counters you switches in. Use U-Turn. A total of two turns for less damage. I noticed myself doing this a lot when I used to use Swellow in UU last generation. I really don't expect it being any better this generation, especially with so many more Steel types in OU (as there is no UU yet).

-Zane

You're right, my bad.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Using Swellow to set up the weather is a silly idea (and I think the OP is aware of this) so please stop discussing it.

 

[NightShadow]

If I recall correctly, I believe that swellow is the fastest non-uber pokemon who has access to sunny day (not sure about rain dance though) this generation (deoxys also gets it, but he'll probably be banned soon anyways). Just something to think about. Everyone keeps saying how ninetales outclasses him in terms of this, but you also have to remember that EQ, rock, and water type moves are extremely common in OU, so it will be harder to safely switch him in. Swellow, on the other hand, is only weak to one of these common move types. The other move types he is weak against are slightly less common in OU that the types that ninetails is weak to.

thats why we lead with ninetales/politoed. and politoed isn't weak to EQ, rock or water types.

 

[Erebyssial]

ok I'm not too sure if Swellow's getting an OU analysis anymore with the new re-organisation, but I'll bump and respond (late) to stuff anyway.

Regarding Scrappy: it's really just there as an alternative, and like I mentioned it's only real use is with CB since it lets you spam Return without fear of giving Ghosts a free switch. Also Guts is useless until (if) you switch into a status move, which is always risky with Swellow's frailty, so Scrappy is a more consistent option there.

This point is moot. Brave Bird hits thim hard enough anyways. Guts Swellow doesn't fear Will-O-Wisp from either, and Scrappy Swellow ignores their Normal-type immunity.

Brave Bird does less than Guts Facade and they can just stall it out of its recoil.

The only problem with this is that without Guts, he is severely outclassed by many others of his flying brethren. Sure, it is a possibility, but there seems to be little point to use it when there are stronger options, and when Brave Bird is equally effective against ghosts anyways, especially since the Rotom formes are no longer part Ghost.

Mostly outclassed yeah, but not entirely due to its Speed. There's a ton of pokes Swellow can outspeed that other Flying-types can't, so it can be a better late-game cleaner.

I agree. Considering that Rotom-A is no longer a Ghost... there's officially no Ghosts that resist Flying in the game apart from standard Rotom, who's going to get slaughtered anyways. Scrappy is completely redundant on something with dual STAB.

All Rotom forms still resist Flying.

Remove the physical attacker set entirely. The only difference between it and the Guts set is Scrappy, which as has been said, sucks. Guts Brave Bird hits every ghost far harder than LO Scrappy Return. It even does more against Rotom, the only ghost that resists Flying (Guts Brave Bird does 56.4% - 66.8% against 0/0, LO Return does 42.3% - 49.8%).

That's not the only difference, it also survives longer and has immediate power. It isn't the most viable set in OU though, so it probably would be better in optional changes.

 

[am zane ok.]

ok I'm not too sure if Swellow's getting an OU analysis anymore with the new re-organisation, but I'll bump and respond (late) to stuff anyway.

Regarding Scrappy: it's really just there as an alternative, and like I mentioned it's only real use is with CB since it lets you spam Return without fear of giving Ghosts a free switch. Also Guts is useless until (if) you switch into a status move, which is always risky with Swellow's frailty, so Scrappy is a more consistent option there.



Brave Bird does less than Guts Facade and they can just stall it out of its recoil.



Mostly outclassed yeah, but not entirely due to its Speed. There's a ton of pokes Swellow can outspeed that other Flying-types can't, so it can be a better late-game cleaner.



All Rotom forms still resist Flying.



That's not the only difference, it also survives longer and has immediate power. It isn't the most viable set in OU though, so it probably would be better in optional changes.

Swellow was never really walled by Ghost-types (except for the old Ghost-type Rotom appliances). It was walled by Rock or Steel-types. Scrappy did not help this at all. In fact, it just makes your damage even WORSE against them.

Guts still has its uses on a Choice Band set, even without a status inducing Orb. Having a status absorber on your team can be really helpful, especially if receiving Burn, Poison, or Sleep on any of your team mates is really detrimental. A set with Return, Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Sleep Talk could work decently, with the same (crappy) coverage that Swellow has always had.

In reference to Rotom enemies, a Guts boosted Brave Bird will DEFINITELY be more useful. It's still a 2-hit KO (if I recall correctly) on most Rotom. If you had Scrappy, Return be doing a bit more damage, but you'd risk taking a Will-o-Wisp to the face, crippling your "late game clean-up". And as for the Rotom appliances? They're going to be taking a lot more from a Guts boosted Facade than a Brave Bird... It's not as if you're choice locked if they switch in. I don't know why that's a relevant point, considering the Rotom appliances are no longer Ghost-types.

And the Scrappy set won't be living longer. It's just going to die to any moderately powered STAB attack from an enemy, or any super effective attack at all, regardless of if it's taking Toxic damage or not. And especially if you're considering Rotom in that point, Guts Brave Bird guarentees a 2-hit KO anyways. There is no "dying faster" when it comes to the frailty of Swellow, when it's honestly just going to faint to priority, faster attacks, or any decent attack from the opponent if it survives. (I can't recall my Swellow ever actually fainting because of Toxic...) Plus, Swellow can easily switch in on an Earthquake or Shadow Ball and U-Turn out, both serving as a scout and activating its status Orb, to remedy the lack of immediate power.

Really. Stick to Guts. Even if using a Choice Band, use Guts. Swellow either needs the 2.25x modifier, or the 1.5x modifier with flexibility to U-Turn out.

-Zane

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

All Rotom forms still resist Flying.

But Facade still does a lot in them.

 

[Erebyssial]

Swellow was never really walled by Ghost-types (except for the old Ghost-type Rotom appliances). It was walled by Rock or Steel-types. Scrappy did not help this at all. In fact, it just makes your damage even WORSE against them.

Guts still has its uses on a Choice Band set, even without a status inducing Orb. Having a status absorber on your team can be really helpful, especially if receiving Burn, Poison, or Sleep on any of your team mates is really detrimental. A set with Return, Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Sleep Talk could work decently, with the same (crappy) coverage that Swellow has always had.

In reference to Rotom enemies, a Guts boosted Brave Bird will DEFINITELY be more useful. It's still a 2-hit KO (if I recall correctly) on most Rotom. If you had Scrappy, Return be doing a bit more damage, but you'd risk taking a Will-o-Wisp to the face, crippling your "late game clean-up". And as for the Rotom appliances? They're going to be taking a lot more from a Guts boosted Facade than a Brave Bird... It's not as if you're choice locked if they switch in. I don't know why that's a relevant point, considering the Rotom appliances are no longer Ghost-types.

And the Scrappy set won't be living longer. It's just going to die to any moderately powered STAB attack from an enemy, or any super effective attack at all, regardless of if it's taking Toxic damage or not. And especially if you're considering Rotom in that point, Guts Brave Bird guarentees a 2-hit KO anyways. There is no "dying faster" when it comes to the frailty of Swellow, when it's honestly just going to faint to priority, faster attacks, or any decent attack from the opponent if it survives. (I can't recall my Swellow ever actually fainting because of Toxic...) Plus, Swellow can easily switch in on an Earthquake or Shadow Ball and U-Turn out, both serving as a scout and activating its status Orb, to remedy the lack of immediate power.

Really. Stick to Guts. Even if using a Choice Band, use Guts. Swellow either needs the 2.25x modifier, or the 1.5x modifier with flexibility to U-Turn out.

-Zane

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with Ghost-types walling it, it's the fact that with Scrappy you can safely lock yourself into Return. Let's say my opponent has a Burungeru, if I don't have Scrappy I'm going to have to use Brave Bird which I might not want to do early game due to its recoil.

Swellow isn't a status absorber at all, it can just take advantage of it. Fact is, Guts is doing literally nothing until you're statused, whereas Scrappy's ability is always in effect I guess you could say. The CB/Scrappy set does last longer because you're not taking status damage each turn.. so you have more opportunities to switch in and attack. Swellow isn't meant to stay in on priority moves so it doesn't matter if that still screws it over. If you've never had your Swellow die from Toxic or recoil you're probably using it wrong or have little experience using it.

tl;dr - I'm not saying Scrappy is amazing or better, I'm saying it does have some advantages over Guts for the CB set and because of that I see no reason to remove it. All that's needed is a sentence regarding Guts vs. Scrappy in the set comments. No harm done.

Oh and nevermind the Rotom resisting flying thing, I somehow completely misread that post lol

 

[am zane ok.]

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with Ghost-types walling it, it's the fact that with Scrappy you can safely lock yourself into Return. Let's say my opponent has a Burungeru, if I don't have Scrappy I'm going to have to use Brave Bird which I might not want to do early game due to its recoil.

Swellow isn't a status absorber at all, it can just take advantage of it. Fact is, Guts is doing literally nothing until you're statused, whereas Scrappy's ability is always in effect I guess you could say. The CB/Scrappy set does last longer because you're not taking status damage each turn.. so you have more opportunities to switch in and attack. Swellow isn't meant to stay in on priority moves so it doesn't matter if that still screws it over. If you've never had your Swellow die from Toxic or recoil you're probably using it wrong or have little experience using it.

tl;dr - I'm not saying Scrappy is amazing or better, I'm saying it does have some advantages over Guts for the CB set and because of that I see no reason to remove it. All that's needed is a sentence regarding Guts vs. Scrappy in the set comments. No harm done.

Oh and nevermind the Rotom resisting flying thing, I somehow completely misread that post lol

Well, with exceptions to abilities like Faint Hearted, Slow Start, and Truant, all abilities are beneficial... But some not (nearly) as much as others, for a certain Pokémon.

But like I said, in my experience of using Swellow last generation, I didn't die to Toxic damage. I died to (unexpectedly) Scarfed opponents, or I, most commonly, voluntarily fainted Swellow to get a team mate in safely.

But my point is, most of Swellow's switch ins are NOT Ghost-types, as they risk facing a Guts boosted STAB Brave Bird. They're Steel-types (and the rare Rock-type [lololol Aggron is such a big "fuck you" to Swellow]). I mean of course it should be mentioned in the analysis that Scrappy has its upsides, but it is by far inferior to Guts.

Not that this matters in the long run. Sadly enough, this analysis will pretty much be voided once UU opens up.

But, I love Swellow. It's cute. Therefore it should be in OU. ):<

-Zane