|Swords of the Ring| [UU Joint]

[Aerrow]

As you can see, DrkSlay and I have been working on a new Underused tier team basically just for fun; both of us had a couple of unique ideas we wanted to try out in the current metagame and see how they would fare, improving some of the weak points of those ideas. This team is not really just a basic team in our perspective as it does not use a full team made up of Pokémon sets copied directly from the strategy Pokedex (we are still using them though); instead we are taking them and trying to improve them by tweaking the sets by a little bit which often make the set a lot more successful according to the team it is in; these tweaks may be as small as changing an item to an entire set. To add a bit of more interest into this team, we decided to mix it up with a theme basing on the Lord of the Rings trilogy which will hopefully make the experience of reading this RMT a bit more enjoyable.

This team is based around a very under rated Pokémon in our opinion, but still aspires to be one of the most lethal sweepers in the tier if played correctly with the right support; this Pokémon is none other than the infamous Absol who is often looked down to these days. We are using basically the standard swords dance set of this awesome Pokémon but after play testing the team; DrkSlay and I came up with minor tweaks which have improved the Pokémon’s overall performance in this team (will be described in detail later on). Also, we are currently laddering with this team and after a small amount of merely fifteen battles, this team has managed to reach 1123 CRE, which in our opinion is an accomplishment worth praise; we are still laddering with this team so please check in every now and then to see the teams status (current CRE rank) which will be posted here, under the Introductory paragraphs.

Current CRE Rank: 1123

You might be wondering (all though the chances are slim) about how this team came to be what it is before; so even if you may not want to know, it’ll be explained anyways. This entire team basically started out with a friendly visitor message asking to make a joint RMT topic and after a very short period of time, DrkSlay and I were discussing our team’s core. Apparently it was me that got chosen to decide on the Pokémon that would start this team off and I chose a quite under rated Pokémon who may seem average to many, but proves to be an exceptional sweeper when used correctly – swords Dance Absol; and thus the foundation of our team was born.

Now after a small bit of time spent on reading the Smogon Analysis of Absol’s prime counters including Hitmontop and also Spiritomb who love spamming Will-O-Wisps and a Fake Out, we decided to choose a Pokémon who wouldn’t mind the burn and could take minimal damage from fake out – Weezing.

Now that we had decided on one offensive and one defensive Pokémon; we decided to move strait to the lead; and since we new that our team would most probably dislike entry hazards we began to search for an ideal anti lead and coincidentally, DrkSlay had a new Machoke anti-lead which looked great for this spot and thus it was added.

Now we moved on to things that would prepare the opponent for our Absol to sweep so we quickly though of a list of things that would make Absol’s life easier and one of the prime items (thing?) was paralysis support as this would stop faster counters from destroying our Absol and since this was a balanced team and we needed another wall, we chose Slowbro for this specific job.

Now we looked back at our team and noticed something wrong; we planned on having two walls, one physical and one special but when we looked back at our team, we saw that the two current walls were basically used for the same purpose and were both physical so after a bit of discussion we decided to replace Weezing with Altaria.

Now we knew we needed stealth rock somewhere on the team and since we still needed a support Pokémon (revenge killer), we decided to use a new set of Dugtrio we created which fooled players into thinking it was the common choice scarf or choice band set but could set up stealth rock the turn that the opponent switched out (will be explained later).

Now only one Pokémon was left – another offensive based Pokémon; now looking back at our team once again we noticed that it had a rather large weakness to water types; bulky and offensive so we decided on probably the best Pokémon I the tier which could deal with these Pokémon and also help prepare for Absol’s final sweep; this Pokémon was none other than the famous Raikou; capable of wrecking teams in a single sweep. And after Raikou’s addition, our team was complete.
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Team At A Glance

Machoke @ Focus sash
Adamant Nature/ No Guard Ability
164 Hp, 252 Atk, 92 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Bullet punch
- Protect
- Rock Slide/ Payback

This is a UU lead that was designed by myself, DrkSlay, as an attempt to counter the current UU metagame's trend of fast, popular leads. Machoke is really a forced to be reckoned with as a UU lead. Note that there's going to be a ton of calculations coming up so that I can validate Machoke's usefulness as a lead, so get your popcorn ready! Now, at first glance at the fact that we're using Machoke, many people will assume this is simply a miniature version of LeadChamp in OU play. However, this Machoke plays much differently. Rather than score 2HKO's on Bulky Pokes, this is designed to OHKO (or 2HKO FS'ers with Priority) a lot of opposing leads in the UU metagame with ease. DynamicPunch is a huge benefit right out of the bat, as no one besides Slowbro and Ghosts will like it and its 100% confusion rate. Even as Machoke, this STAB move hits like a nuke. The next move is really a toss-up, as both have their benefits (although both effectively deal with Froslass leads well. Payback nails Froslass leads and can actually hurt opposing Uxie leads for 3HKO's (possibly a 4HKO, but BP saves the day there). It is also the most useful against the inevitable Rotom/Mismagius switch-ins, which hit for massive damage (OHKO'ing almost all variants of Mismagius and 2HKO'ing the RestTalk variants of Rotom). Rock Slide, on the other hand, allows you to OHKO Moltres leads thanks to Focus Sash, providing yet another Lead you can beat. This still also nails Froslass for the same damage as Payback, which is important to know. While Bullet Punch may seem frivolous and unneeded as compared to a Payback/Rock Slide combo, it is actually the most important move on Machoke, making him the ultimate Froslass and Ambipom counter, along with any other Focus Sash lead. Without it, Froslass is guaranteed at least two layers of Spikes OR one layer and a Destiny Bond for a KO on Machoke, and Return Ambipom would 2HKO Machoke before Machoke can do anything. Protect is definitely the oddball on the set, but it's pretty much mandatory to beat common Fake Out leads, like Ambipom, Persian, and Kangaskhan. Without it, Ambipom can successfully 2HKO with Fake Out + Return. The Focus Sash allows it to beat many common leads with ease, including Alakazam, Moltres, and various other leads. Note, however, that if you do not fear these leads, Lum Berry helps against Uxie to an extent, as well as against incoming Rotom who wish to Will O' Wisp you or other Lead status inducers, like ScarfSaur. A Type Resist berry is also a decent choice to keep some HP left against Alakazam or Moltres, but note that Focus Sash beats both leads anyway instead of one or the other. Note that Lead Machoke and Lead Hariyama play different roles as well. Lead Hariyama is generally an Offensive lead designed to cause as much damage as possible through Close Combat and Payback, and cannot stop Stealth Rock from being set up. Machoke can stop SR from going up in all cases except Uxie and Kabutops, who the first is a bad match up anyway, and the latter is just faster.

EV's: The EV's are specifically made to give Machoke as much punch as possible, while giving it enough Speed and HP to beat Bulky leads to the punch AND take neutral hits well. Adamant nature and 252 Attack EV's makes an Attack stat of 328, which is not too shabby at all. 92 Speed EV's is enough to outspeed all Rhyperior leads by one point, which also means you out-speed Regirock, Omastar, and Donphan leads. The rest of the EV's are dumped into HP for maximum bulk outside of Super Effective hits.

Against the Top Leads of the UU Tier

Green means beaten.
Yellow means a tie, needs a certain move, or can be dealt with through switching.
Red is a threat.

Uxie

Payback: 328 Atk vs 394 Def & 354 HP (100 Base Power): 120 - 142 (33.90% - 40.11%)

Unfortunately, the most popular lead in UU is a 3-4HKO, and if it has access to a Psychic-based move, Machoke is not the greatest choice. On another note, though: if Uxie doesn't carry a Psychic-based move, there is little to no worry here for Machoke, as not even Thunderwave really cripples it. Also, our particular team doesn't mind Uxie a whole lot, so almost any of our Defensive Pokes can switch into it. Don't worry: it gets better from here for Machoke.

Ambipom

DynamicPunch: 328 Atk vs 168 Def & 292 HP (100 Base Power): 422 - 498 (144.52% - 170.55%)

Through Protect, Ambipom is easily dealt with. DynamicPunch nails all Ambipom silly, and if they're Sashed, Bullet Punch cleans it out. Ambipom isn't a threat to Machoke at all.

Froslass

Payback: 328 Atk vs 177 Def & 281 HP (100 Base Power): 266 - 314 (94.66% - 111.74%)
OR
Rock Slide: 328 Atk vs 177 Def & 281 HP (75 Base Power): 200 - 236 (71.17% - 83.99%)
+
Bullet Punch: 328 Atk vs 177 Def & 281 HP (40 Base Power): 108 - 128 (38.43% - 45.55%)

By far, the easiest for Machoke to counter. Machoke is designed to allow all Lead Froslass one layer of Spikes total. Nothing more, and only less if one decides to Taunt or attack me first for some reason. Bullet Punch finishes off FS'ed or weakened versions. Froslass is essentially why I created Machoke in the first place.

Moltres

Rock Slide: 328 Atk vs 216 Def & 321 HP (75 Base Power): 328 - 388 (102.18% - 120.87%)

In short: Machoke wins if it carries Rock Slide. Period. If it does not carry Rock Slide, it can only hit for Payback, which does not OHKO in the slightest. Moltres can be dealt with through the team itself if one chooses to use Payback (like I do), so it's not a total threat to a team. Plus, one can Protect scout in case of Scarf or Toxic leads if Machoke has Payback.

Alakazam

Payback: 328 Atk vs 126 Def & 257 HP (100 Base Power): 374 - 440 (145.53% - 171.21%)

Note that Rock Slide + Bullet Punch does not 2HKO Alakazam. Payback + Bullet Punch is the only option here, albeit it's a really nice one. Machoke has no trouble against Alakazam thanks to Focus Sash!

Omastar

DynamicPunch: 328 Atk vs 363 Def & 334 HP (100 Base Power): 194 - 230 (58.08% - 68.86%)

A guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers, and Machoke outspeeds. This also means that Confusion can prevent Stealth Rock, which is a huge plus. If not, well, at least you kept your Sash intact after the 2HKO. Omastar leads are getting pretty common, it seems, so Machoke couldn't have been chosen at a better time.

Spiritomb

This is the only lead where Machoke can't do diddly squat to. The best it can do is scout a move with Protect and either switch to another Pokemon, or receive a Choice Band for Machoke and hit with a boosted Payback. Spiritombs are a pain to any team, though, and while a lead Spiritomb virtually guarantees that I won't be facing CroTomb (the ultimate evil), it's still a pain.

Regirock

328 Atk vs 446 Def & 364 HP (100 Base Power): 158 - 188 (43.41% - 51.65%)

I outspeed this big fella. Two DynamicPunches and a Bullet Punch OR DPunch+Confusion hit+DPunch is technically a 2HKO. Pretty much a bulkier, yet less threatening offensively, version of Omastar. Rarely sets SR up. Nothing to fear here.

Kabutops

328 Atk vs 361 Def & 279 HP (100 Base Power): 198 - 234 (70.97% - 83.87%)

Admittedly, this one's trickier than Regirock/Omastar, but one of three things happens: it sets up Rocks and I kill it before it kills me, it 2HKO's me without getting Rocks up, or Confusion hax kicks in and neither happens. All three are pretty positive, so Machoke wins here.

​

Dugtrio @ Muscle Band
Jolly Nature/ Arena trap Ability
252 Atk| 252 Spe| 4 Hp
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch

Dugtrio plays two roles for our team. Its primary role is to trap and defeat/revenge things like Registeel, Raikou, and such who pose a threat to our SDAbsol or CMRaikou sweep. Its secondary role is to set up Stealth Rock for the team, which plays a vital role in nearly all Balanced teams, preventing our opponent from constantly switching. Dugtrio owns the infamous EdgeQuake combo, which nails pretty much anything and everything it intends to counter. Sucker Punch rounds off the set, giving Dugtrio a way to weaken Speed boosting Pokemon and the Ghosts of UU. Muscle Band allows us to fake a Choice Scarf without giving much away to our opponent in terms of damage output. This enables Dugtrio to easily OHKO many of the Flying type switch-ins, such as Swellow and Moltres (especially). Max Attack and Speed give Dugtrio enough Speed to be effective at its job revenge killing.
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Slowbro @ Leftovers
Bold Nature/ Own Tempo Ability
252 hp | 252 def | 4 sp.def
- Slack Off
- Thunder wave
- Psychic
- Surf

Yep, you guessed it, the basic and very common bulky water Slowbro set which may seem so dull to your many, many previous encounters with it, but just think about it; In your encounters with it; even if you had your best counter against it; you have to admit that even in those cases, it had been able to cause even minimal damage, even by a simple thunder wave. Slowbro is naturally the Vaporeon of this tier; though it does not have the amazing ability as Vaporeon, its amazing defences can wreak havoc for foes that are unprepared for it. DrkSlay and I had originally picked it out for our physical wall due to Absol’s immense liking to having thunder waver support but after a large amount of test battles, we saw that it has been able to do more than just slow down faster foes; in fact in a couple of my personal tests, this Pokémon has ended up stalling over half the opponent’s team to death! Also acting as the primary switch in to those pesky fighting types which can otherwise destroy Absol; by using a STAB powered psychic attack to counter Pokémon like Hariyama, and Hitmontop; this Pokémon is a very important part of this team and without It, this team would probably suffer many, many defeats.
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Altaria @ Leftovers
Calm nature/ Natural cure Ability
252 Hp | 200 Def | 56 SpDef
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

We decided to go for Altaria as our second Defensive choice, who is a generally undervalued Pokemon in the UU tier. Her above average HP and spectacular Special Defense makes her a very nice status spreader and team supporter. Machoke can actually prevent SR from going up against most Leads, which is a huge plus for Altaria, who is knocked because of her SR weakness. Altaria also pairs nicely with her other Defensive partner, Slowbro, resisting Grass attacks aimed at him, and Slowbro resisting Ice attacks aimed at Altaria. Roost and Toxic together is deadly, stalling out pretty much everything except Steel types. Roost also covers for SR damage, if they ever should go up. Dragon Pulse and Flamethrower together hit everything in the UU tier for at least neutral damage, which prevents thinks like SubAggron and other Sub users from setting up on Altaria. 252 HP gives us maximum bulk on both sides of the spectrum. 200 Defensive EV's compensate for Altaria's rather low Defense stat. A Calm Nature and 56 Special Defense EV's gives Altaria awesome Special bulk.
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Raikou @ Life Orb
Timid Nature/ Pressure Ability
252 SpAtk| 252 Spe| 4 Hp
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Hidden power [Grass]
- Cam Mind

CMRaikou is known far and wide as one of the most threatening Offensive Pokémon in the UU metagame. For our team, he is no exception. With the help of his friends, CMRaikou is a force to be reckoned with once it gets even just one Calm Mind boost in. We opted for Offensive Booster Raikou over SubRaikou because of the fact that by the time Raikou comes out, most of its counters will be gone, including status inducers and such. Also, the sheer power it grants us really gives us the edge on our competition. Thunderbolt is the STAB move that rips apart most Neutral targets let alone SE. HP Grass is chosen over HP Ice due to our team's slight weakness to Rhyperior. It also hits those pesky Ground types who switch in, like Claydol, as well as 4x hits on the stray Quagsire and whatnot. Extrasensory provides us with one major ability: the ability to OHKO Offensive Venusaur, who would otherwise pose a challenge to a Raikou sweep. As our team's Special Sweeper, 252 SpA and 252 Speed EV's maximize sweeping potential.
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Absol @ Lum Berry
Adamant Nature/ Super Luck Ability
252 Atk | 252 Spe |4 Hp
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Super Power
- Psycho Cut

The star of the show and a really good one at that; basically the standard swords dance Absol set in Smogon’s strategy Pokedex but with a couple of minor tweaks in the set which have proven to be a lot more useful. As you can see, we have not used the common Night Slash move people use but replaced it with the second choice; Psycho Cut which may not have the STAB powered raw power as night slash but acts magnificently as a counter to common Absol switch ins including Hitmontop, and Hariyama who would expect a possible sucker punch in an act of struggle. Now you may ask well how does this move help the set at all; its basically the same thing as night slash and unless you are faster than the opponent switch in you are basically dead and this is when the entire strategy comes into play; Pokémon like Dugtrio and Slowbro have been chosen for a specific reason; to inflict both heavy damage and status; while Slowbro paralyzes the opponent Pokémon letting Absol out speed it; Dugtrio often is our primary switch in to neutralize the opponent’s fighting type Pokémon without much hassle so when its time for Absol to come in; most if not all of its counters would have either been fainted or inflicted with paralysis status allowing Absol to dispose of them once and for all. The biggest tweak to this set us probably the item held by this disastrous sweeper; instead of using the standard Life Orb for the increased power, we replaced it for something far more useful; a Lum Berry. Just think about it; when Absol’s counters have perished what would an opponent send out? Something to maim Absol’s sweep; a status inflicter usually along the lines of paralysis or a burn which could really damage Absol, but with Lum berry, he can successfully avoid that status and also grab a free swords dance or if he has already been powered up, attack and keep on attacking to complete finishing off an opponents team.
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Team At A Final Glance

Thanks for reading our rather long rate my team topic, and we hope you enjoyed reading it, though it may have dragged along at a couple of spot, but hey, we had to explain the overall strategy for you to get the best understanding of the team, right? And also, we hope you enjoyed the little theme we added to this topic about the Lord of the Rings and we hope it let you enjoy reading this a bit more. Please comment on the team and give suggestions on how we could improve this quite successful team because well, that’s the reason we posted it on these forums; to get descriptive feedback and criticism from our fellow competitive battlers on Smogon!
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​

 

[DarkSlay]

Threat List
(Credits to J. Franky)

Green means not a threat.
Yellow means a minor to moderate threat.
Red means a major threat.
​

- See: Top Leads. Slowbro does well. Dugtrio can revenge.

-See: Top Leads. All others can be played around with Slowbro and Altaria, as well as Absol if they are Specs.

- Slowbro OHKO's the RP version without taking much damage from Head Smash. Machoke can take it on fairly well too, as it resists Head Smash.

- Raikou can hurt it badly with a +1 TBolt. Our own Altaria has Dragon Pulse. Dugtrio with Stone Edge If Machoke runs Rock Slide, it's not a bad choice.

- Slowbro can TWave it and deal with it, especially if it lacks Night Slash. Altaria's in a similar, but slightly less useful, boat. My own Absol can beat it, bar Jolly variants.

- Dugtrio can revenge, although it is OHKO'd by ExtremeSpeed + SR a small portion of the time. Slowbro handles this well, bar Toxic. Same with Altaria.

-Slowbro handles this in its sleep. Altaria can come in on resisted hits, but must beware of Ice Punch.

- Raikou sets up in its face, especially if another teammate is asleep. Blastoise also can't touch Altaria and Slowbro.

-Slowbro does well here. As does Altaria. And Dugtrio can revenge. Not a threat.

- Machoke is usually alive long enough to deal with it. Dugtrio traps it and 3HKO's it without taking a whole lot. Absol wrecks it.

- See: Chansey, pretty much.

- Slowbro and Altaria do well here, especially Altaria, who only has to worry about Psychic and/or Shadow Ball.

- Machoke hits it well. Raikou can set up on it. As does Absol. And Slowbro only fears Explosion, which doesn't OHKO at full health.

- Slowbro handles it perfectly. Altaria can Toxic it, but must beware of Ice Shard. Other than that, it can hit the team hard with EQ. Something might have to be sacrificed if Slowbro is out for the count.

- Dugtrio can easily revenge this guy. Raikou takes heft chunks from it with TBolt. It does not like Machoke's DPunch.

- Raikou can set up on it without fearing a whole lot. Machoke has Payback for Leads. It does not like Absol's Sucker Punch.

- Walled by Slowbro, and Altaria can deal with it by stalling out its Stone Edge. As always, though, Raikou must be wary of it.

- Like Azumarill, Slowbro owns this guy all night and all day, bar maybe SD Crunch? If it does not run Ice Punch, Altaria is fairly safe.

- See: Top Leads.

- Slowbro handles all sets well, as does Altaria. Note that Absol has Psycho Cut for this guy.

- Slowbro and Altaria (bar Stone Edge). +2 Absol OHKO's with Sucker Punch + SR most times if it lacks Mach Punch.

- Slowbro walls it. A pain if it's gone, though, especially if it's LO with Stone Edge + Mach Punch.

- Duggy can OHKO it with Earthquake. Machoke takes it on if it's still Sashed. Altaria can take Dark Pulse and Toxic.

- See: Top Leads. In Rain, it's dealt with by Slowbro well enough.

- Altaria can most likely handle anything it throws at it, especially since it 4x resists Grass. Not too big of a deal.

- It won't like switching into TWave unless it has a Sub. In this same manner, Altaria can Toxic it, especially if it lacks an Ice move. In Rain, it's a big pain.

- As a lead, Machoke 2HKO's it. Absol can do well. Raikou can set up on it without much fear. Altaria is decent.

-Raikou, mostly. Slowbro too, bar Toxic. Altaria can Toxic it, but must be wary of Ice Beam.

- Raikou can have a Calm Mind/NP contest. Altaria is decent. Absol and Dugtrio can Sucker Punch it, but SubMissy wins.

- Slowbro does well, bar HP Grass. Altaria is 3HKO'd by LO Air Slash, giving it time for Toxic. Dugtrio outspeeds and OHKO's with Stone Edge, especially since it's faking a Scarf. SR helps a lot.

- Slowbro. Dugtrio can revenge. Raikou can hit it well with Extrasensory.

- Slowbro can hit hard with Surf, only fearing Earth Power/EQ. Altaria's a go too, but must be wary of Stone Edge. Raikou can OHKO with a +1 Extrasensory, should one switch in.

- See: Top Leads. Almost everyone can really dent it. In Rain, it's a pain.

- Raikou would do well. Slowbro walls Waterfall + Focus Punch, plus has Psychic. Altaria resists the same combo as well.

- Slowbro completely walls it to no end, resisting its STAB moves. Slowbro also has Psychic. Altaria can do similar results, but less effective.

- Dugtrio was added just for this reason. Our own Raikou does well as does Absol with Sucker Punch.

- Pretty much the whole team can deal with Regirock.

- Dugtrio 2HKO's after SR 100% of the time, and most of the time without. Absol can set up on it. Machoke can easily dent it.

- +1 Raikou OHKO's with HP Grass. Slowbro also dents it pretty hard. Dugtrio can revenge it at low health. Watch out for RPPerior, though.

- If it switches into Machoke, it's scouted and quite possibly hit with Payback. Raikou can set up on it, bar TWave users and TrickScarf. Altaria fears little.

- Ataria doesn't mind Specs Leaf Storm, but it does mind HP Ice and Rock Slide. Absol can hit it hard with Sucker Punch. A decent threat.

-Dugtrio and Stone Edge. Raikou handles it well too. Absol with Sucker Punch. SR will take care of it.

- Raikou can dent it with a +1 TBolt, but must be wary of TWave if it switches in on one. Altaria can Toxic it, as most don't run Ice Beam.

- A huge pain in the butt. Normal sets aren't too bad, as Altaria can just Toxic it or Raikou can set up on it. CroTomb, on the other hand, is unstoppable against this team. There's nothing we can do about it bar a critical hit, really.

- Slowbro has nothing to fear. As does Altaria. Dugtrio can trap it and revenge it at low health, if it comes down to it. Machoke can dent it.

-Slowbro's a good choice. Dugtrio's Sucker Punch OHKO's after SR. Absol's does more.

- Bit of a problem. No Ice attacks, but Slowbro can do okay. As can Altaria. A threat, nonetheless.

- Slowbro has Psychic for it and walls it. Altaria can do similar.

- Altaria has Toxic. Machoke nails it. Absol sets up and nails it.

- See: Top Leads.

- Raikou with Extrasensory knocks it silly. Absol has Psycho Cut and Sucker Punch for it. Altaria can Flamethrower it. Other than that, though, it's not always pretty.

- Raikou easily handles Weezing with Extrasensory/TBolt. Slowbro also has Psychic. Altaria doesn't mind WoW and can hit with DPulse.

YOU MAY POST NOW!

 

[Meru]

I fail to see how Machoke counters Froslass. If she destiny bonds the second turn, you're both down a poke with your opponent having a layer of spikes.

And not sure about muscle band Dugtrio... he can't trap kill a Chansey.

Also mention that Moltreslead has the possibility of flinch haxing your Machoke. Always fun when that happens eh?

 

[PK Gaming]

I fail to see how Machoke counters Froslass. If she destiny bonds the second turn, you're both down a poke with your opponent having a layer of spikes.

And not sure about muscle band Dugtrio... he can't trap kill a Chansey.

Also mention that Moltreslead has the possibility of flinch haxing your Machoke. Always fun when that happens eh?

Do you not see bullet punch? Rock Slide + is a guaranteed 2HKO suicide Froslass and has a chance of 2HKOing Bulky Froslass.

Not really, the best defense Chansey against Dugtrio is Seismic toss and that can only 3HKO, while all forms of Earthquake 2HKO. Muscle band IS a poor choice though. (You are much better off using soft sand to bluff a choice band) or just go for the life orb set.

And only you would outright complain about h4x right Meru.


Anyway,
It's an alright team but I have a couple of suggestions.
1: Your Altaria (in my opinion) isn't that impressive. It doesn't force ANYTHING out and is setup fodder for Aggron. (although rare). You can't even stop SubCM Raikou and LO Raikou 2HKO's at 1+. It's the main reason why I never use a purely support Altaria.


Also using Dragon Claw is almost always preferred on a support Altaria because many special attackers (Alakazam, Mismagius, Raikou) are hit harder on their physical sides.

Moving on, this is a really nice set for Altaria.

name: Defensive Dancer
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Claw
move 3: Roost
move 4: Heal Bell / Safeguard
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 176 SpD / 64 Spe

The defensive dancer Altaria does 2 things. It presents a win condition for you, as if your opponent fails to stop on getting 6+ (2, 3 will do) it's GG. It still doubles as a special wall, but this time around you can BEAT them. With one Dragon dance, you outspeed positive base 90's.

*I'm going to make a suggestion to increasing it's speed to beat Raikou and Mismagius.*

Definetely worth trying out.

 

[Demoness]

I fail to see how Machoke counters Froslass. If she destiny bonds the second turn, you're both down a poke with your opponent having a layer of spikes.

And not sure about muscle band Dugtrio... he can't trap kill a Chansey.

Also mention that Moltreslead has the possibility of flinch haxing your Machoke. Always fun when that happens eh?

When did Destiny bond start being able to go Before a Bullet punch? And unless
Chansey has shed shell, it aint going to be switching out.



I'm noticing a few odd things in your explainations. The set on Raikou says HP water but you then go talking about HP grass, so i don't know which one your atlking about.



edit: beat by Gaming

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Raikou @ Life Orb
Timid Nature/ Pressure Ability
252 SpAtk| 252 Spe| 4 Hp
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Hidden power [Water]
- Cam Mind

CMRaikou is known far and wide as one of the most threatening Offensive Pokémon in the UU metagame. For our team, he is no exception. With the help of his friends, CMRaikou is a force to be reckoned with once it gets even just one Calm Mind boost in. We opted for Offensive Booster Raikou over SubRaikou because of the fact that by the time Raikou comes out, most of its counters will be gone, including status inducers and such. Also, the sheer power it grants us really gives us the edge on our competition. Thunderbolt is the STAB move that rips apart most Neutral targets let alone SE. HP Grass is chosen over HP Ice due to our team's slight weakness to Rhyperior. It also hits those pesky Ground types who switch in, like Claydol, as well as 4x hits on the stray Quagsire and whatnot. Extrasensory provides us with one major ability: the ability to OHKO Offensive Venusaur, who would otherwise pose a challenge to a Raikou sweep. As our team's Special Sweeper, 252 SpA and 252 Speed EV's maximize sweeping potential.​

2 questions.

1. Is it Hidden Power Water or Grass?

2. What IV's are needed to get that Hidden Power+Nature combo legally on Raikou?

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Hello,

2 questions.

1. Is it Hidden Power Water or Grass?

2. What IV's are needed to get that Hidden Power+Nature combo legally on Raikou?

1. Yeah, I also got confused about which type of HP you're actually using.

2. In order HP-Attack-Defense-Speed-Special Attack-Special Defense
Grass: 31-2-31-31-30-31
Water: 31-23-31-30-30-31
Ice: 31-22-30-31-31-31
That's all types you'll have to know for Raikou I believe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as your team is concerned I would change your Altaria set as suggested above by PK Gaming. I also agree that Dugtrio will approve of Soft Sand or Life Orb much more than of Muscle Band.

Also you should consider using both Payback and Rock Slide on Machoke and drop Protect if you feel beating Moltres as well as Ghosts is more important than beating Ambipom.

Good Luck !

 

[Xiahou Dun]

So I played a couple games with the team just to see how it was and I didn't really get a chance to give it a full go because 9 times out of 10 people just quit. Something I noticed though was simply...

Spiritomb is a dick, Machoke can do nothing to him except hope to get 3 Rock Slide flinches in a row and then a crit on Rock Slide 4 for the kill(No lie it actually happened : D), Altaria can do nothing to him except Toxic and pray he doesn't have Rest, Slowbro can do nothing to him Paralysis is not at all useful, Dugtrio really can't do anything to him either, Raikou can hit him with a couple of Thunderbolts for ok damage provided he hasn't Calm Minded up already. Absol can't hit him with 2 of it's 3 moves and the one that does hit is Sucker Punch on a Not Very Effective so he has free reign to Calm Mind up as much as he likes while Absol tries in vain to Sucker Punch, of which he gets 4 before running out of PP due to Pressure. You basically need it to not have Rest to be in there with a little more of a shot. I suggest a Physically attacking Altaria with Dragon Claw and Dragon Dance too. Flamethrower Dragon Pulse coverage is nice and all but it basically hits everything for peanuts even on an SE so it isn't worth it.

I disagree with the below. Comments on why Included.

- Raikou with Extrasensory knocks it silly. Absol has Psycho Cut and Sucker Punch for it. Altaria can Flamethrower it.

If Raikou is dead Venusaur will smack you silly with the right opportunity, Absol can Sucker Punch and hit a sizable chunk then die, Slowbro can die, Altaria can Flamethrower it for like 35% if you're lucky, but Altaria will just get put to sleep there and if you switch out to activate Natural Cure it just puts something worse then Altaria to sleep, and then either kills that or Swords Dances or something. The team can deal with it fine but it is at least a yellow.

 

[DarkSlay]

@ Meru:

I don't know if it's just that you are not aware of this, or that you missed it, but Machoke has Bullet Punch, which is a priority move. This will always beat Froslass without taking any damage or setting up Spikes. You do have a valid point for Chansey, however, Chansey isn't doing much in return, like PK has pointed out. As for your third comment, it would be illogical to say that Moltres can 2HKO because "of hax," as hax is unintentional and should never be expected, save for the rare OU Serene Grace user. It's unfortunate when it happens, but it should never be expected unless it was a lucky hit.

@ PK Gaming:

Soft Sand does do a little bit more than Muscle Band, but actually, it still 3HKO's Chansey and Registeel with Leftovers. Muscle Band still OHKO's Raikou. The only benefit is hitting Drapion for a little bit more guaranteed OHKO. In return, Muscle Band powers up Sucker Punch AND Stone Edge as well, while still retaining no recoil, so it can successfully fake a Choice Item. This is a pretty important aspect, as the common trend is to Choice Duggy, which we want to take advantage of.

Your Altaria set seems interesting. At first, I was not fond of it, as the ability to provide Toxic support has been invaluable. However, as Xiahou has pointed out, it would alleviate our Spiritomb weakness slightly, as well as provide us with good bulk. We'll test it out. Thanks for the suggestion!

@ Berserker, Xiahou, and Aircraft:

The Hidden Power is Grass, to OHKO Rhyperior as well as provide us with a way to hit Ground types. HP Water was initially considered, but we did not like it verses HP Grass' coverage, and we do not run Rain. Sorry for the confusion.

@ Xiahou:

I hope the disconnects were because you were winning. XD At any rate, I'm glad you're trying out the team! Yeah, as I have highlighted in my Threat List, Spiritomb is quite the nuisance to this team. Tank sets are handled well, but CroTomb is near unbeatable. Changing Altaria's moveset may help with this, although I see it as only a small way of dealing with it.

Point taken about Venusaur. I still wouldn't call it a major threat, especially if Raikou is still alive, but I can see a few points where it could give us issues. I'll change the color.

More rates would be greatly appreciated! We'd like to hear from any and every Rater who wishes to comment on anything, whether it's Machoke, Dugtrio, or the whole team! Full rates would be very beneficial as well. Thanks!

EDIT: @ Berserker

I'm sorry, I had no intention of missing your post. You are correct: a set of DynamicPunch/Payback/Rock Slide/Bullet Punch would deal with both leads. However, keep in mind that Ambipom is a much bigger threat to Machoke without Protect. Much more than most would imagine. Yes, it requires Fake Out + Return to 2HKO at first, but with proper switching, an entire team can successfully counter Machoke without it causing any damage, or preventing Stealth Rock/Spikes from getting up. Ambipom can even switch in twice if it predicts correctly and Fake Out Machoke again for the 2HKO. You are right, though, that set would beat both threats well.

 

[Demoness]

ok i'm just going to say this because i don't think you'll look at my last post: I would Put Rock slide over Payback so you can kill Moltres leads but that means that you can't kill Uxie leads but your team doesn't mind them, you also can't kill zam leads but you can still hurt it alot with rock slide+Bullet punch. It also lowers your chance of winning against Frosslass by 10% i belive but It honestly depends on if you want to quickly kill Moltres or kill Zam and hurt Uxie and Being guranteed to kill Frosslass

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Your Altaria set seems interesting. At first, I was not fond of it, as the ability to provide Toxic support has been invaluable. However, as Xiahou has pointed out, it would alleviate our Spiritomb weakness slightly, as well as provide us with good bulk. We'll test it out. Thanks for the suggestion!

Toxic was hugely useful when I used it too. But you can always keep the Toxic and Roost in there and just swap Dragon Dance and Dragon Claw for Dragon Pulse and Flamethrower, it's not your use of Toxic he disagrees with.. It's your use of Special moves when Altaria has an equally good physical attack but also more importantly a good boosting move to make it threatening despite having no EVs in offensive stats Dragon Dance makes it more of a ticking time bomb wall. Which is a good thing. He suggested Heal Bell and Safeguard which are both excellent but neither are crucial.

Also if you get rid of Toxic you get wrecked by ALL Spiritombs rather then just Rest Talk Spiritombs Altaria's DD would give you an option against them but it is far less of an effective option against CroTomb then Toxic is against the other Tomb sets *Shudder*

I hope the disconnects were because you were winning. XD

Mostly it was Machoke Dynamic Punching their lead first turn then they either quit immediately after he Bullet Punches or immediately after they hurt themselves in confusion. Very very very few games made it past 3 turns. 95% of those that did were Spiritomb leads.

(The XD face always confuses me. I keep thinking it's somebody trying to abbreviate my name. :P)

Point taken about Venusaur. I still wouldn't call it a major threat, especially if Raikou is still alive, but I can see a few points where it could give us issues. I'll change the color.

Like I said it's not a Counter or anything it just deserves at least Yellow seeing as Raikou can't actually safely switch into it due to Sleep Powder and can't even switch into it when somethings sleeping if it has a SD up so bar predicting an SD on the switch you generally end up having to let something die in order to bring Raikou in and even then it can just switch out against Raikou and this means you've made a sacrifice for nothing...And revealed your Raikou which is something you really want to leave until late game.

Also Muscle Band does a great job of Bluffing a Choice Band but I prefer Expert Belt, Dugtrios coverage is good and he's only going to be coming in to Revenge something he can SE anyway and once they see that SE Earthquake OHKO or 2HKO they assume a Quakelock and bring in that flying which you also SE with err...well with SE. Basically there aren't enough situations where Dugtrio is the best Pokemon to send in at the time but can't get a Super Effective hit at all (Chansey is about the only time I would bring in a Dugtrio to trap something it has no Super Effective moves on) for me to not think Expert Belt is the best choice.

 

[PK Gaming]

Even if you don't switch sets, Dragon Claw is still a superior choice.
You'll hit most if not ALL special threats a lot harder on their special defense. Chansey just laughs at you too. You can toss flamethrower for heal bell or something.

 

[Aerrow]

Also Muscle Band does a great job of Bluffing a Choice Band but I prefer Expert Belt, Dugtrios coverage is good and he's only going to be coming in to Revenge something he can SE anyway and once they see that SE Earthquake OHKO or 2HKO they assume a Quakelock and bring in that flying which you also SE with err...well with SE. Basically there aren't enough situations where Dugtrio is the best Pokemon to send in at the time but can't get a Super Effective hit at all (Chansey is about the only time I would bring in a Dugtrio to trap something it has no Super Effective moves on) for me to not think Expert Belt is the best choice.

Yeah, after a bot of comparing an Expert Belt does seem like the ideal item over Muscle Band on Dugtrio and after testing it a couple of times, its proven to be a better item in my perspective though DrkSlay will discuss this a bit more in depth when we are both online again.

Even if you don't switch sets, Dragon Claw is still a superior choice.
You'll hit most if not ALL special threats a lot harder on their special defense. Chansey just laughs at you too. You can toss flamethrower for heal bell or something.

Well this is a bit of a dilemma to be honest. Although you have an excellent point about considering dragon claw over dragon pulse, there's still an argument to be presented and judged; although Dragon Claw would hit very well for physical walls which would basically wall Altaria, dragon pulse uses Altaria's special attack stat which is noticeably greater than its attack stat. DrkSlay and I will further discuss this topic. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Yeah, after a bot of comparing an Expert Belt does seem like the ideal item over Muscle Band on Dugtrio and after testing it a couple of times, its proven to be a better item in my perspective though DrkSlay will discuss this a bit more in depth when we are both online again.

I know I'm awesome right? Expert belt is good on Dugtrio just due to the nature of Dugtrios use in coming in on things he Counters in the first place. The extra 10% damage boost also goes a long way towards that all important Choice Band Bluff.

Well this is a bit of a dilemma to be honest. Although you have an excellent point about considering dragon claw over dragon pulse, there's still an argument to be presented and judged; although Dragon Claw would hit very well for physical walls which would basically wall Altaria, dragon pulse uses Altaria's special attack stat which is noticeably greater than its attack stat. DrkSlay and I will further discuss this topic. Thanks for the suggestion.

Statistics
HP 75
Atk 70
Def 90
SpA 70
SpD 105
Spe 80

Wait what?

 

[Aerrow]

I know I'm awesome right? Expert belt is good on Dugtrio just due to the nature of Dugtrios use in coming in on things he Counters in the first place. The extra 10% damage boost also goes a long way towards that all important Choice Band Bluff.



Statistics
HP 75
Atk 70
Def 90
SpA 70
SpD 105
Spe 80

Wait what?

Dang lol; sorry about that. I was looking at the wrong stats >.> Probably because I was distracted; but anyways I understand your point but this change will be discussed to an extent never the less.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Dang lol; sorry about that. I was looking at the wrong stats >.> Probably because I was distracted; but anyways I understand your point but this change will be discussed to an extent never the less.

By all means discuss it. You shoud discuss EVERYTHING I was just pointing out that his Attacking stats were equal, not trying to make a point or anything.

However I will say that with no EV investment BOTH his attacking stats are low and at least he has a good option to boost his Physical attack to usable levels (His speed too!) while his Special Attack is always gonna be staying at Diddly squat no matter how great that Dragon Fire coverage is. UU has barely any Steels anyway so that OU handmedown Dragon Fire combo isn't so necessary. There's Registeel who Dugtrio destroys and Steelix who Slowbro destroys. Machoke also does well on both of them.