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The 1v1 Metagame
- Thread starter Ditto
- Start date
One Word: Shedinja
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
That Kingdra set is awesome, but Lum is a better option. Shedinja is kinda a non-factor because it loses to everything that does carry a super-effective move, like Togekiss, many Jirachi etc.
Testing this:
Jirachi @ Lum Berry
Serene Grace
252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
Substitute
Thunder Wave
Iron Head
Grass Knot / Fire Punch / ???
This set is excellent at beating a lot of stuff. The idea is that, using Jirachi's excellent bulk and resistances (EVs avoid a 2HKO from ScarfMence Fire Blast), you T-Wave and start flinching things. Lum + Sub allows you to beat most Sleep users by paralysing first-turn and Subbing to block the second sleep. Its great typing allows it to effectively wall a lot of things - many Togekiss and Kingdra, for example - and it can beat a lot of stuff. Fire Punch is an option for general coverage, but I personally prefer Grass Knot to 2HKO Swampert even with Careful.
Testing this:
Jirachi @ Lum Berry
Serene Grace
252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
Substitute
Thunder Wave
Iron Head
Grass Knot / Fire Punch / ???
This set is excellent at beating a lot of stuff. The idea is that, using Jirachi's excellent bulk and resistances (EVs avoid a 2HKO from ScarfMence Fire Blast), you T-Wave and start flinching things. Lum + Sub allows you to beat most Sleep users by paralysing first-turn and Subbing to block the second sleep. Its great typing allows it to effectively wall a lot of things - many Togekiss and Kingdra, for example - and it can beat a lot of stuff. Fire Punch is an option for general coverage, but I personally prefer Grass Knot to 2HKO Swampert even with Careful.
Pokemon Name: Mismagius
Set Name: Madam of Doom!
Ability: Levitate
Nature: timid
EVs: 252SpAttack/4SpDefense/252Speed
Item: Expert Belt/Life orb
Move 1: Calm mind
Move 2: Shadow ball
Move 3: Energy Ball/Psychic/Hp Fighting
Move 4: Thunderbolt
Description: Mismagius has great speed and a great move pool expert belt raises the
the effect of super effective moves and mismagius has a lot of different type moves and these moves can sweep in 1vs1 and UU tier calm mind cill help strenthen its sp attack and make it more bulky.
Set Name: Madam of Doom!
Ability: Levitate
Nature: timid
EVs: 252SpAttack/4SpDefense/252Speed
Item: Expert Belt/Life orb
Move 1: Calm mind
Move 2: Shadow ball
Move 3: Energy Ball/Psychic/Hp Fighting
Move 4: Thunderbolt
Description: Mismagius has great speed and a great move pool expert belt raises the
the effect of super effective moves and mismagius has a lot of different type moves and these moves can sweep in 1vs1 and UU tier calm mind cill help strenthen its sp attack and make it more bulky.
Pokemon Name: Togekiss
Set Name: Parahax
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/ 176 Def / 80 Sp def
Item: Lum Berry/ Leftovers
Move 1: Thunder Wave / Body Slam
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Aura Sphere
the basic idea is to paralyze the opponent, then hit it with either one of the moves.
I think this can easily take a hit or two, so roost will allow survival, Crits hurt it though.
Set Name: Parahax
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/ 176 Def / 80 Sp def
Item: Lum Berry/ Leftovers
Move 1: Thunder Wave / Body Slam
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Aura Sphere
the basic idea is to paralyze the opponent, then hit it with either one of the moves.
I think this can easily take a hit or two, so roost will allow survival, Crits hurt it though.
A Kingdra set similar to the one posted in page 3 is the absolute best choice for the Battle Hall in-game, it's sure to do some crazy shit in any 1v1 environment.
Kingdra @ Focus Sash (Haban Berry if Sash is banned)
Sniper / Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe or x HP / 252 Atk / x Spe (Enough to outspeed Breloom)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn
- Protect
I guess it could also work with 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe since Focus Sash guarantees you won't be OKHO'd. Yawn + Protect is amazing in 1v1, only beaten by Lum / Chesto Berry and sleep-preventing abilities, like Insomnia. It resists Jirachi's Iron Head, making death by flinchhax unlikely. I also think Outrage might be better in actual competitive 1v1, since Waterfall has immunities.
Also Shedinja sucks, he auto-loses to anything with one attack of the 5 types that hit him.
Kingdra @ Focus Sash (Haban Berry if Sash is banned)
Sniper / Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe or x HP / 252 Atk / x Spe (Enough to outspeed Breloom)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn
- Protect
I guess it could also work with 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe since Focus Sash guarantees you won't be OKHO'd. Yawn + Protect is amazing in 1v1, only beaten by Lum / Chesto Berry and sleep-preventing abilities, like Insomnia. It resists Jirachi's Iron Head, making death by flinchhax unlikely. I also think Outrage might be better in actual competitive 1v1, since Waterfall has immunities.
Also Shedinja sucks, he auto-loses to anything with one attack of the 5 types that hit him.
Choice loses to Torment or Metal Burst, which loses to Sleep.
drcossack
I'm everywhere, you ain't never there
Regarding Focus Sash - I've played in some #stark cups that have been 1v1 and done well using it, so I can agree it's worth looking at, and, if testing finds it broken, ban it.
Anyway. When I play in the 1v1 #stark cups, I use a slightly modified version of the Anti-Lead Dragonite. The only changes I made are the hold item and the nature - Sash and Hasty. Against a vast majority of leads, Sash allows me to fire a Draco Meteor/Earthquake/Fire Blast, then I can follow up with an Extremespeed.
The main problem Sash DNite has are against ScarfRachi leads, since they'll have Ice Punch. I can survive the first IP and do a decent amount of damage with Earthquake, but, IIRC, the Extremespeed follow-up doesn't KO. I'd have to calc it, obviously, but without LO, it doesn't do enough damage enough of the time.
Anyway. When I play in the 1v1 #stark cups, I use a slightly modified version of the Anti-Lead Dragonite. The only changes I made are the hold item and the nature - Sash and Hasty. Against a vast majority of leads, Sash allows me to fire a Draco Meteor/Earthquake/Fire Blast, then I can follow up with an Extremespeed.
The main problem Sash DNite has are against ScarfRachi leads, since they'll have Ice Punch. I can survive the first IP and do a decent amount of damage with Earthquake, but, IIRC, the Extremespeed follow-up doesn't KO. I'd have to calc it, obviously, but without LO, it doesn't do enough damage enough of the time.
Weavile @ Focus Sash (if allowed) Choice Band or Life Orb otherwise
+ Attack, - either defense
252 Atk/SAtk
Ice Punch
HP Grass/Fire/Electric (Elec is probably best, for waters and Skarm)
Brick Break
Ice Shard (If sash)/Night Slash
+ Attack, - either defense
252 Atk/SAtk
Ice Punch
HP Grass/Fire/Electric (Elec is probably best, for waters and Skarm)
Brick Break
Ice Shard (If sash)/Night Slash
Crobat @ Lum Berry/Wide Lens
Inner Focus/Adamant
252 HP/ DEF ATK/ 6 SP.D
Super Fang
Hypnosis
Taunt/Wing Attack
Confuse Ray
This set is to sleep the opponent, and drain away HP with super fang! The idea of confuse ray is to get steels and rocks to hit themselves because most his attacks don't work on them(even though steels would probably be targeted in this metagame and lower their popularity, thus also destroying rocks). Lum berry is to avoid sleep, wide lens is for hypnosis' accuracy. An advantage is that wing attack gets shedinja and isn't flinched by fake out. Sleepers are outsped, trickers can be beat with taunt, and choicers hate sleep. Another good thing, it is the best of the sleepers. This set isn't hard to use, has a reliable typing, can screw over pretty much everything, and it's hard to strategize around. No sash required.
Inner Focus/Adamant
252 HP/ DEF ATK/ 6 SP.D
Super Fang
Hypnosis
Taunt/Wing Attack
Confuse Ray
This set is to sleep the opponent, and drain away HP with super fang! The idea of confuse ray is to get steels and rocks to hit themselves because most his attacks don't work on them(even though steels would probably be targeted in this metagame and lower their popularity, thus also destroying rocks). Lum berry is to avoid sleep, wide lens is for hypnosis' accuracy. An advantage is that wing attack gets shedinja and isn't flinched by fake out. Sleepers are outsped, trickers can be beat with taunt, and choicers hate sleep. Another good thing, it is the best of the sleepers. This set isn't hard to use, has a reliable typing, can screw over pretty much everything, and it's hard to strategize around. No sash required.
Supe
would you suck the poison out
This is a really fun play style.
I used a very similar flinchkiss in the CC tourney. I invested in Sp Atk rather than Sp Def though. With the bulk combined with roost, paraflinch is extra annoying in a 1v1 scenario because there's no possibility of a revenge kill.
I think that a great pokemon in this metagame is Counter Blissey. With a bold nature, max HP and Def, and a chopple berry, it can even survive a Choice Band Close Combat from Machamp and kill it with Counter. Stoss, Toxic, and Softboiled would round out the set.
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
Definitely use Outrage, because you need it for a lot of KOs and far fewer things resist it. I like using Lum Berry, actually, to beat other Sleepers. Kingdra's only really bad matchups are, predictably, against Steels - and even some of those can be beaten through Sleep, such as Scarf Jirachi without Trick.
Counter Blissey is good. Bold/252/252 takes an unboosted Giga Impact from Slaking.
I really like Wavedash's Aero set, too.
I think we have to consider - how good is Sash really? <frail Sashed mon> loses to flinch and sleep, the two most prominent strategies judging by experience and the discussion in this thread. With Inner Focus, however, Taunt Alakazam and Magic Coat Lucario might be broken.
I'd think that CB lax would be surprisingly effective. CB Self Destruct can OHKO Skarm (85% - 100.3% against 252 HP/176 Def/Impish, 96.7% - 114.1% against 252 HP/4 Def/Impish (specially defensive)). For ghost types, you can use Crunch.
Self Destruct violates Self-KO clause. Not to mention Lickilicky does more damage with Explosion.
Gyarados @ Lum Berry
252 Atk 216 SDef 40 Spd
Adamant | Intimidate
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Substitute
the ev spread helps with togekiss, while this gyarados can beat a lot of pokèmon, included Jirachi and Stalldactyl. Also Kingdra is raped by him. Try it out!
Girafarig @ Life Orb
252 Atk 252 Spd 4 Def (help with the spread anyway pls)
Adamant | Inner Focus
Earthquake
Suckerpunch
Zen Headbutt / Substitute
Double Edge / (return? thunder?)
Beats all the flinchy leads and also a large amount of the others.
Others set to mention: Magnet Rise Raikou, Dusknoir, Counter Bliss...
252 Atk 216 SDef 40 Spd
Adamant | Intimidate
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Substitute
the ev spread helps with togekiss, while this gyarados can beat a lot of pokèmon, included Jirachi and Stalldactyl. Also Kingdra is raped by him. Try it out!
Girafarig @ Life Orb
252 Atk 252 Spd 4 Def (help with the spread anyway pls)
Adamant | Inner Focus
Earthquake
Suckerpunch
Zen Headbutt / Substitute
Double Edge / (return? thunder?)
Beats all the flinchy leads and also a large amount of the others.
Others set to mention: Magnet Rise Raikou, Dusknoir, Counter Bliss...
I wouldn't support the unbanning of wobbufett, simply because if two players use wobbufett, it's going to suck.
What about this for a format. Players choose teams of 6 (or any number that would make the metagame better, obviously a minimum of 3). 3 1v1 matches are played, where a player can pick any pokemon from those 6 to use, so long as the pokemon hasn't been used in a previous match. After each match, the players reveal what pokemon they have left (just reveal the species).
So the first match, you play blind. The second and third matches are more based on picking the right pokemon. The format is best 2/3, with extensions into the 4th, 5th, and 6th matchups in the events of ties. Though I don't think ties are even possible in Pokemon.
What about this for a format. Players choose teams of 6 (or any number that would make the metagame better, obviously a minimum of 3). 3 1v1 matches are played, where a player can pick any pokemon from those 6 to use, so long as the pokemon hasn't been used in a previous match. After each match, the players reveal what pokemon they have left (just reveal the species).
So the first match, you play blind. The second and third matches are more based on picking the right pokemon. The format is best 2/3, with extensions into the 4th, 5th, and 6th matchups in the events of ties. Though I don't think ties are even possible in Pokemon.
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
Wobuffet is broken. With CounterCoat, it beats anything and everything Scarfed, while Encore allows it to beat nearly everything else. It has some problems with Sleepers, but it can still beat many of them.
Ties are possible, even with Self-KO Clause on - Life Orb might KO your pokemon as it took down your opponent's, for example. That Gyara set is really good, actually. There are better Inner Focus users, though - Alakazam? Lucario?
Ties are possible, even with Self-KO Clause on - Life Orb might KO your pokemon as it took down your opponent's, for example. That Gyara set is really good, actually. There are better Inner Focus users, though - Alakazam? Lucario?
I dont mean to be ignorant but wont scarf jirachi completely rape, there are only a couple of standard pokes (i.e. not something like banded lucario) that can beat jirachi one on one and it destroys half of the strategys evryone is talking about i.e. sleep and focus sash. With this in mind i'm thinking of something like a Gyra with haban or Heatran with shuca as a viable strategy. Also, this metagame reminds me a lot of the lead 'metagame' (without the need to set up SR ofcourse).
I disagree, as many people have mentioned already, it is impossible to counter every single pokemon, shedinja loses to enough pokemon to make it an unviable strategy IMO so i'd rather just accept a loss if I see one than over-prepare for it.
