ORAS OU The Ol' Volt-Turn Core

What pokemon do you think is heavily underrated in the OU tier right now?


  • Total voters
    30
Hi everybody, my name is mrseacoore and today, I am showing my team that I have used in OU for some time now. Hola todos, me llamo "mrseacoore" y hoy, estoy mostrando mi equipo que ha usado en OU por un tiempo ahora.

My youtube channel is named mrseacoore if you are interested by the way. Anyway, The team that I am presenting today is one that I think is incredibly good. I admit that lately I have been dabbling around in the lower tiers, so my ladder rank in OU is a bit sad at the moment. But every single time that I've laddered with this team, I've just powered cleanly to at least 1450 elo because of the pure synergy and balanced coverage the team creates as a full unit. The idea for this team came about when I theorized that a bulky triple-core paired with strong offensive threats on the same team should be able to deal with every type of playstyle from Stall to Hyper Offense with minute weaknesses to each in a slightly varying degree. This all sounds really nice, but it was not and is not the easiest kind of thing to create when you actually try to do it. I tried putting Lando and Slowbro together, but I couldn't figure out a third that completed a good trio, as Heatran was still weak to water and Ferro gave me an unnecessary weakness to Offensive Mega Venusaur and LO Breloom and did not really deal too well with sand or rain teams generally speaking. I tried Mega-Sableye, wish support Jirachi, and AV Torn - but that left me weak to Diancie and DDD Altaria among other notable threats that tend to work in combos (ex: Hippo/T-tar + Drill/Chomp +Zard-X; Lopunny + teammate(s); etc.)... So long story short, building the main trio-core for this team took a very long time. In the end, I noticed that the possibility of a volt-turn support core could work for my theory. Now before I see Rotom + Lando in the comments, know that despite the great synergy of those two together, there are clear flaws to them outside of coverage -cough- raw power -cough-. Be honest, very few volt-turn partners want to come in on something like Specs Keldeo or LO Weavile's Knock Off. There is also an issue in giving those two a third partner for their core that doesn't add some clear minor weakness somewhere. Status is also a very relevant factor in my opinion. Between burns and paralysis, a battle can go from one person's favor to the other with just one or two statuses. We all know that running status moves are meant to catch counters or to slow down a sweeper or just to be annoying. So when I thought about it, I could use typing and abilities to grant some support for my team regarding status. I also needed to think about specific matchups though, which usually comes first. So it began with a few questions; What has a good matchup against a majority of the most commonly used pokemon in the OU meta? Clefable, Weavile, Mega-Lopunny, Mega-Sableye, MegaGross, and that nonexistent Greninja. What is a good status absorber? Clefable, Mega-Sableye (not secondary effects of moves), and natural cure users. Bam! 1st member becomes Clefable. 2nd Member: What pairs well with Clef? Steel, Ground, Rock, and Electric Types, each of which deal with a specific type of check/counter for Clef. (ex: Rock and Electric types help deal with Talonflame and Mega-Zard while Steel types help deal with Mega-Venusaur and provide a check/counter for opposing Fairy Types that Clef cannot always deal with such as Mega-Diancie and Azumarill.) What doesn't mind countering for Clef on super effective moves? Rotom immediately came to mind, seeing as poison type moves aren't particularly common. Rotom also solves the problem of talonflame almost all on its own and gives me a way to stop certain physical attackers with w-o-w. It even has a decent matchup against Diancie. Bam! 2nd member is Rotom-Wash. Now for the final member of the trio-core. If we want good synergy with Rotom and a way to form a volt-turn core, what can we use? Scizor, Jirachi, Lando, Tornadus, and the much rarer U-turn Celebi (usually baton pass). I ended up choosing Scizor because I felt that Celebi would lean too much toward stall and would not give me a way to check Weavile. Scizor also was given a mega stone. So that finished my core. I then began thinking, "What's basically the scariest thing I could use as a wallbreaker that has great STAB coverage?" Keldeo instantly came to mind of course. But I just despised the idea of having multiple water types on a team unless it couldn't be helped. So I kept thinking about Keldeo and what makes it scary. base 108 speed and base 129 SpA complemented by LO or Specs (usually Specs). If we can give Keldeo choice specs, why can't we give Terrakion choice band? Bam! 4th member would be known as Terrakion. It complements Clef pretty well and can come in off of a slow volt-turn user. The 5th member needed to be something that could set hazards. I just used a Mew. Mew can do anything... ANYTHING. ANYTHING... And then I just needed something else that worked. I wanted another priority user, but I also desperately needed grass and steel/psychic type coverage (Rachi and Gross primarily). Tornadus was the first thing I thought of, but I really needed a way to use priority other than Scizor due to the reason that my team did not have a good way of always preventing D-Dance sweepers or Weather Teams from outright winning if they managed to set up. Bam! Talonflame. Because Talonflame somehow has less attack at Lv.100 than Mega-Rayquaza does at Lv.50 but is still seen as one of the most threatening pokemon in the OU tier. And that's the story of how this team was made, but that is only how it was made, not with how the moves and spreads were chosen.



Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled


Clefable is a serious threat in the current OU meta. I would honestly go as far as to call it S rank because there is no possible way to teambuild without having a plan for Clefable anymore. Clefable deals with so many commonly used pokemon, I'm not joking when I say: Out of the top 50 most commonly used pokemon in OU, Clefable deals with about 30 of them give or take 2 or 3. This is what I've looked at according to the Dec. 2015 OU Usage Rate Statistics ( http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ier-update-december-2015-read-the-op.3557847/ )
And if we are looking at the most viable things, Clefable deals with a huge number of everything from A- Rank to S rank currently. ~30 mons depending on the set. That makes Clef a huge threat in its own right. This is quite clearly the CM Clefable with flamethrower to catch opposing steel types on switch in (flamethrower over fire blast for both more PP and perfect accuracy to ensure that steel counters are going to take good damage, bar Heatran). This Clefable could just as well use t-wave or heal bell, but I think that the CM variant is often a win condition or just a really great tank throughout the game that gets nice chip damage on a majority of the tier at the very least. The calm nature is chosen to make it just a bit easier for Clef to set up calm minds, most notably against Rotom, Slowbro, and several other special attackers. Clefable ends up dealing a lot of damage after 1 calm mind boost. It's very beneficial honestly. Soft-Boiled is a great means of recovery and Clef doesn't take secondary damage from weather, hazards, or status, which is wonderful. Paralysis is the only status that Clefable doesn't want to have in most situations.



Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 12 SpA / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp


Rotom is certainly a great pokemon in the OU meta, as it has been since whatever generation it was declared OU. On my team, Rotom fits extremely well in tandem with Clefable and Scizor-Mega as I mentioned earlier. It has 0 Atk IVs to minimize foul play and confusion damage in the rare situations that those come up. I have 30 speed IVs solely to underspeed opposing rotom and come off with the momentum from my volt switch. I could also run 29 or 28 Speed IVs if I seriously wanted to make it absolute that I underspeed opposing Rotom; however there's not a need for that 99 times out of 100. Anyway, we have 240 Def investment to hit the 341 jump number in the stats. The investment taken from that defense was dumped into SpA in order to add some small amount of power to my attacks. This could also be placed into SpDef, it's all based on preference really. Rotom will usually put a huge strain on sand teams as well as give a halt to several strong physical attackers in the tier with will-o-wisp, meaning that it is very difficult to switch directly into rotom with offensively oriented teams. Rotom gives me quite a lot of momentum and is able to last throughout the battle depending on how I use it. Rotom is also my main counter and check to Talonflame, with Hydro Pump 2HKOing the Bulk Up Variant (248 HP and Max SpDef with a SpD nature). Pain Split, sadly, is the only way for Rotom to recover HP without being Chesto-Resto. But that's fine, because my team's major weakness is being worn down anyway, and I didn't want to run stall in the first place. And that is Rotom.



Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Defog

Scizor is such a powerful pokemon. I don't feel that it has ever really lost any viability since it got its mega. Yes, a whopping 1/4 of the tier started to carry HP fire just to deal with it and Ferrothorn at one point in time. This is also Defog scizor, which means that it doesn't act as the SD variant and sweep. This thing forces so many switches that it can legitimately generate momentum. Again, many very common pokemon in the tier fall under the jurisdiction of Scizor. This thing clears away hazards, which significantly benefits my team, specifically Talonflame and Rotom. Scizor is very bulky and eats up hits on both sides of its defense. It shortens offensive threats' lives. We should know what it does. I shouldn't have to explain it. This is a prominent pokemon of the tier and we all know about its sets because it's famous. It's ******* Scizor-Mega.



Mew @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 76 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Roost

Mew can do ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No but seriously, Mew can do anything it wants. I chose to make it set up stealth rocks and lure in the infamous Weavile, Bisharp, and Tyranitar, all of which lose 1v1 thanks to colbur berry + Aura Sphere. We don't actually have to run Colbur Berry to take a Knock Off from Weavile or Bisharp; however we have to be at full HP, which isn't going to happen in practice. We have 116 speed investment specifically to outspeed Tankchomp and Offensive SR Lando (which runs 1 speed more than Tankchomp) and outspeeds fast taunt skarmory and anti-lead Breloom. Ice Beam is run for good coverage and as a way of OHKOing Lando and Tankchomp (it's a roll on Tankchomp after rocks and on Naive Fire Blast Tankchomp). The roll is 75% on Defensive Lando. It is possible to use 120 SpA investment on Mew to guarantee an OHKO on Defensive Lando and a 50% OHKO on Tankchomp. Mew's Aura Sphere does OHKO both Weavile and Bisharp, and Bisharp does not outspeed Mew. Aura Sphere 2HKOs Tyranitar in the sand as well as its Mega counterpart. Fire blast is an alternative move to Aura Sphere which still beats SD Bisharp, but cannot KO Weavile unless Weavile has taken hazard damage. Fire Blast is a great move and should be considered if you don't think that you need to guarantee the OHKOs on Bisharp, T-tar, and Weavile with Mew. It's all preference honestly. Aura Sphere also puts a noticeable dent in Heatran for the special attack investment being run.
(technically only 68 SpA is needed to get the rolls, but I didn't know where to invest the extra 8 EVs)
Roost provides very good longevity, though I will note that you can run an offensive Mew with SR and three attacks, having psychic/psyshock in the last slot to hit Keldeo. I prefer Roost so Mew can continue setting up rocks when needed. Mew is very bulky in its own right and should not be underestimated. This is a great anti-leading-lead-Mew and I very much like it.



Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

I'm barely even going to touch on the Talonflame. It's so well known in the OU tier that most people have its sets memorized. This is the Offensive SD variant with an Adamant Nature.
Priority Brave Bird + Sky Plate/Sharp Beak = Big Damage
Flare Blitz = Coverage and good damage
Swords Dance = I'm a bigger threat
Roost = I have longevity too, and the longevity is also priority
Talonflame is an easy win condition on my team and checks quite a few prominent threats that the trio-core cannot kill properly. It also is able to stop some sweepers with enough prior damage.



Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Terrakion is a hugely underrated threat in the OU Meta in my opinion. With a Choice Band, it essentially becomes Physical Keldeo with stronger STAB and different coverage. Latias (the red Lati with more defense) cannot ever come in more than once on a Close Combat from CB Terra. Lando doesn't really like countering this. Tornadus hates switching into Terra's moves bar EQ. Terrakion also nails its checks over the head with whatever move it uses for them. It isn't impossible to bluff a choice scarf either, which makes for a good situation sometimes. This thing decimates so many counters that it isn't funny. It also acts as a last minute check for CM Clefable. Essentially, this is the best wallbreaker for my team because of what it covers. Most of what it covers, the rest of my team doesn't directly cover. So this is a big member on my team.


I'm getting ridiculously sleepy right now as I'm typing this, so I'm just gonna end the rmt by saying this team is amazing and I haven't stopped laddering up with it. (been doing them suspect tests as of late).
I have 5 replays for you guys to watch if you want to. These were all back to back and consecutive games. But yeah, this is a good ol' volt-turn core with a grande amount of potential.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-349869205
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-349858476
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-349861944
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-349871058
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-349915515

Thank you for reading. I hope you enjoy the team. Leave feedback, any amount is appreciated.
 
Ehy man :)
I think that Jolly>Adamant Nature on Talonflame is really important because allows you to outspeed Raikou that is good in many cases.
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Also Lopunny and Charizard X are really annoying for this team because you don't have a check for this pokemon, specifically Charizard have good chance to setup because Clefable haven't Thunder-Wave for example and Scizor gives to charizard many momentum. My suggest is to try Landorus Setter that helps against this problem and gives momentum with u-turn. A good idea is to try Sword Dance because allows you to lure opposing Landorus and Hippodown that stop the talonflame Sweep. Also run 8 EVs in SpD for evoid the 1HKO from Manectric's Hidden Power Ice.
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Sword Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Also your team is really weak to Manaphy (that have many chances to Setup, for example against Scizor or Clefable or Landorus) and to Charizard Y (You don't have Swich-In) for this reason and because you have Landorus that helps against Excadrill and Sand Teams, my suggest is to try Raikou>Rotom that helps against this problems.
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Clefable isn't really necessary in this team I think that Starmie is a good option for this team because gives you a rapid spin support for Talonflame, check Keldeo and gives you a good swich-in for Heatran that is annoying for this team. Also you can try Earthquake Latios>Starmie that helps against Manectric and lure Heatran with Earthquake things that helps the Talonflame and Scizor Sweep. Other good option is to try Hidden Power Fire, because Ferrothorn is annoying.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Psyshock

Or

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake/Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Scizor Defog isn't really good in this metagame actually, my suggest is to try Scizor Sword Dance because gives you a second Wincon that is good for this team. Superpower is the best option because helps against Ferrothorn that is annoying for this team.
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Summary of the changes:
Landorus-T>Mew
Raikou>Rotom-W
Latios/mie>Clefable
The set of Scizor
The Nature on Talonflame

Team Complete:
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Sword Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake/Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Hope help you :)
 
Ehy man :)
I think that Jolly>Adamant Nature on Talonflame is really important because allows you to outspeed Raikou that is good in many cases.
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Also Lopunny and Charizard X are really annoying for this team because you don't have a check for this pokemon, specifically Charizard have good chance to setup because Clefable haven't Thunder-Wave for example and Scizor gives to charizard many momentum. My suggest is to try Landorus Setter that helps against this problem and gives momentum with u-turn. A good idea is to try Sword Dance because allows you to lure opposing Landorus and Hippodown that stop the talonflame Sweep. Also run 8 EVs in SpD for evoid the 1HKO from Manectric's Hidden Power Ice.
Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Sword Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Also your team is really weak to Manaphy (that have many chances to Setup, for example against Scizor or Clefable or Landorus) and to Charizard Y (You don't have Swich-In) for this reason and because you have Landorus that helps against Excadrill and Sand Teams, my suggest is to try Raikou>Rotom that helps against this problems.
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Clefable isn't really necessary in this team I think that Starmie is a good option for this team because gives you a rapid spin support for Talonflame, check Keldeo and gives you a good swich-in for Heatran that is annoying for this team. Also you can try Earthquake Latios>Starmie that helps against Manectric and lure Heatran with Earthquake things that helps the Talonflame and Scizor Sweep. Other good option is to try Hidden Power Fire, because Ferrothorn is annoying.
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Psyshock

Or

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake/Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Scizor Defog isn't really good in this metagame actually, my suggest is to try Scizor Sword Dance because gives you a second Wincon that is good for this team. Superpower is the best option because helps against Ferrothorn that is annoying for this team.
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Summary of the changes:
Landorus-T>Mew
Raikou>Rotom-W
Latios/mie>Clefable
The set of Scizor
The Nature on Talonflame

Team Complete:
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Sword Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake/Hidden Power Fire
- Defog

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Hope help you :)
I'm pretty sure you don't understand the point of my team. But none of your points are right. The only situation where outspeeding Raikou with talonflame is helpful is when there's actually a goddamn Raikou, and Brave Bird is still doing tons of damage for a resisted move. Manaphy... Uhm... It cannot setup against scizor, which U-turns out into Terrakion with momentum. Did you calc Banded Terrakion at all? I'm not sure you understand how unbelievably powerful it is. It can't risk setting up on anything but Clefable, and even then it might not want to because it doesn't know Clef's set. That's a poor argument. If I use Raikou over Rotom, I lose my slow volt-turn core, one of the main reasons for even making the team in the first place ( IT'S IN THE NAME OF TEAM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD). Raikou also isn't as good at countering talonflame and in some circumstances will have trouble checking it, as you so graciously mentioned about my talonflame unintentionally. Lopunny actually isn't that huge of an issue for my team in practice. If it was, then I would have mentioned it. Though I understand Mega-Lop is a concern and you have a right to point it out. Mega-Lop just doesn't stop my team. Zard-X can beat any and all teams if you're not careful... Like... at +1 it's flare blitz does over 65% to Mega-Altaria... That's insane. You can't use that argument of not having a check for it to justify Lando's use on a team that I explained was better off without Lando because it needed a way NOT to create multiple weaknesses. Keldeo for example? Zard-X is taking 50% from rocks before it megas. Talonflame also has that priority I mentioned so it beats a damaged Zard. It actually isn't ever a huge issue for my team. We have defog support from Scizor, I'm not using a 2nd water type that isn't bulky on a team that I explicitly stated features a bulky triple-core. And hell, Excadrill would fit better than fucking Starmie if I wanted a spinner. Do you not realize how much of the OU meta Clefable checks? It beats about 30 of the top 50 most used pokemon in the tier... That's over half of the 50 most used pokemon... Is that detail sinking in yet? Scizor's set is completely fine for my team. In fact, it's the perfect scizor set for my team. You can't argue that there are better sets for it that should be used differently when its role on my team 100% matches the defog set, and not 5% matches the Bulky SD set. The only thing I can think about that I agree with in your arguments is Talonflame's nature, which isn't actually going to happen because it needs to be able to do as much damage as possible to several setup sweepers, such as Zard-X and Altaria. But thank you for your feedback though.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 291-343 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 174-205 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 157-186 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 172-204 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 187-222 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 119-141 (37 - 43.9%) (a lot of damage for a resisted move)
Let me actually spell out the primary weakness of my team aside from being worn down: Strong offensive steel types. I'm always vigilant for Bisharp and Megagross because those have the potential to crush my team with their STAB. Heatran checks 3 members of my team. Jirachi is always an issue, and I only have 1 to 3 answers to it depending on its moveset. Excadrill with a choice scarf is nearly impossible for me to counter and still pretty hard to check. Those are threats to my team. Not silly little 1v1 threats. As I state in every single rmt I do as of my UU Full Stall Team, the team I made works as a unit.

Still I appreciate the feedback and I understand your criticisms. I just don't agree with any of them in regards to the purpose of my team.
 

DennisEG

Civil Engineer
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey man, first glance the team looks pretty fat volt-turn but the when I read the RMT found a CB Terrak + SD Talon to abuse the offensive moment provide it for the slow Volt-turn combo you have there. In term of threats as all teams Zard is a huge one, Zard X can setup on Sciz, Mew and Clef ( if the full set is reveal) and you only way to beat it at +1 is Talonflame + Flare Blitz recoil. Zard Y spam Fire Blast free 2hkoing everything bar Terrak so your switch ins are very limited. Another threat is Keldeo, Specs Hydro Pump HKO or 2HKO your team with Rocks up and prior little bit of damage on Rotom.
As it's a volt turn, I'll give you some suggest without losing the skeleton of the team:
  • First change , as Astral said above in the current metagame Jolly Talon is better not simply because beat Raikou but also outspeed priority Weavile's Ice Shard so your not revenge by it.
  • Another change I'd make is SD>Defog on Scizor, because you need a more reliably defoger rather than a passive one, SD put pressure on defensive teams and you still maintain momentum with U-turn.
  • I'll change Mew to another lure and still realibly defoger, Colbur 3 attacks Latios > Mew, HP fighting 2HKO tar on switch in, and also lure bisharp, for Weav you have Sciz so is not big deal. Latios help you a lot against Keld, Electric Types and Zard Y.
  • And last to not be so weak to Zard X, 2 options, put Twave on Clef or make Scarf Terrak but you need to make one of this two.
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Roost / Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fightin / EQ
- Defog [\hide]
 
Hey man, first glance the team looks pretty fat volt-turn but the when I read the RMT found a CB Terrak + SD Talon to abuse the offensive moment provide it for the slow Volt-turn combo you have there. In term of threats as all teams Zard is a huge one, Zard X can setup on Sciz, Mew and Clef ( if the full set is reveal) and you only way to beat it at +1 is Talonflame + Flare Blitz recoil. Zard Y spam Fire Blast free 2hkoing everything bar Terrak so your switch ins are very limited. Another threat is Keldeo, Specs Hydro Pump HKO or 2HKO your team with Rocks up and prior little bit of damage on Rotom.
As it's a volt turn, I'll give you some suggest without losing the skeleton of the team:
  • First change , as Astral said above in the current metagame Jolly Talon is better not simply because beat Raikou but also outspeed priority Weavile's Ice Shard so your not revenge by it.
  • Another change I'd make is SD>Defog on Scizor, because you need a more reliably defoger rather than a passive one, SD put pressure on defensive teams and you still maintain momentum with U-turn.
  • I'll change Mew to another lure and still realibly defoger, Colbur 3 attacks Latios > Mew, HP fighting 2HKO tar on switch in, and also lure bisharp, for Weav you have Sciz so is not big deal. Latios help you a lot against Keld, Electric Types and Zard Y.
  • And last to not be so weak to Zard X, 2 options, put Twave on Clef or make Scarf Terrak but you need to make one of this two.
Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Roost / Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fightin / EQ
- Defog [\hide]
As I already mentioned, Zard is not an issue. You don't have to counter everything. Zard does not beat my team a majority of the time. Neither mega Zard does. I have ways of stopping it. Clef already puts enough pressure on defensive teams with CM. I don't need SD scizor. I appreciate hazard removal more. Latios doesn't fit on my team for what I need it to do. I hate scarf Terrak because it has counters, unlike the CB one on my team which has maybe 2 real counters. Let me just point something out. If Zard is such a problem, then your arguments are also saying that Zard makes stall teams invalid. That's not an argument, because stall is a valid playstyle. Sure it's strong, but it isn't unstoppable. And if you argue that Talonflame+Recoil is my way of beating Zard-X, then having a jolly nature actually hurts me because I do ~7% more damage, which actually makes all of the difference to revenge kill. Colbur Lati just sounds like a gimmick in comparison to LO 3 attacks. T-wave is an option on clef, but as I expressed twice, Steel types are actually the primary threats to my team. Keldeo is checked by Rotom, Clef, and Talonflame. I don't ever find it a problem 9 out of 10 times. I'm not sure you people even understand the whole point of my team in the first place. The entire theory of the triple-bulky-core is that it generates huge momentum and deals with a majority of the common meta and provides glorious support for the rest of the team. Zard also takes 50% from rocks before mega, and even then it dies to recoil after being hit hard enough. It also has no real counters in the first place. Scarf Terrak doesn't do the damage for the rest of my team. It's literally like a cycle of support. Either one half gets the right chip damage on whatever and Terra just takes them out later or the other way around. I've faced plenty of teams with all of the threats both of you mentioned. I had very minimal issues with them and won the battle most of the time. Before anybody else comments, please understand that the overall goal of my team is to have a trio-core that is bulky and deals with a majority of the most viable and most commonly used pokemon in the current Meta. The trio-core also generates offensive and defensive momentum for the rest of my team. The team's playstyle is primarily Balance/Bulky Offense. The purpose of the this team is to not only handle a majority of the tier, but also gradually wear down the opposition while the team supports itself defensively and offensively. I do not appreciate comments that go along the lines of: "oh, this ONE SPECIFIC mon threatens your whole team if it gets set up," or "You're team doesn't have a good way to counter this and blah blah blah logical fallacy," or "hey, this mon is better on your team because of X Y and Z reasons (without actually analyzing the role my team member fills for my team to function as a unit)" or "You know, this particular set for this mon is better than the one you have right now for your team." If we always analyzed teams in the sense of those comments, then essentially nobody would ever have a good team because those arguments just aren't practical. Think about it like this: IF [pokemon A] sets up on [pokemon B], your team loses. It's not a valid statement. First, you're already making an IF statement, which places your argument a step back until you can prove it as practical. Second, you don't even bother to include the fact that I as a player am not going to allow [pokemon A] to freely set up. Third, you mention literally one very specific instance which is subjective realistically. This logic is the same reason that you can't just send out a sweeper, set up turn 1 and win. It doesn't happen more than 3% of the time. So please, actually take the time to understand why my team functions as a unit and realize its playstyle and build. Just throwing out random pokemon that could be potential threats to my team doesn't do anything beneficial for anybody.
There are reasons that a team is made, so please take those reasons into account when you comment.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top