I'm not sure who, but I remember someone used in UU Rest/Sleep Talk/Surf/Recover Milotic and it was extremely annoying to take down. With some Toxic Spikes support could outstall opponents without strong grass or electric attacks left (and of course without poison type to absorb T-Spikes). Also I think that Surf/Haze may be used, if you don't want something to set up on you.
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The Value of Sleep Talk (Stategy Analysis and Discussion)
- Thread starter RaikouLover
- Start date
Oh of course, I can see Restalk Milotic working in UU. It's that it seemed like Cipher Admin Lovrina was talking about Milotic in OU, and that's why I questioned her.
Of course there is the problem regarding luck, but probably the biggest issue restalk users face is move slot syndrom, having already given up 2 slots just to resting and talking. Then if you want to "forward the strategy" as Raikou has (correctly) pointed out is necessary to giving up a slot on the team, you'll want that boosting/phazing/etc. move, leaving you with only one slot for an attacking move (in the case of a boost user). That's all well and good if you have a really broad STAB like water or dragon I guess but it's not ideal by any means.
I wanna see a STAB Outrage-curse tinted-lens restalker . . . :P
I wanna see a STAB Outrage-curse tinted-lens restalker . . . :P
I remember seeing a thread on speed-shuffling or something. The idea is that Roar can go first via sleep talk. For instance:
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP | 252 SPEED
Rest
Sleep Talk
Roar
Dragonpulse
You have a 1/3 chance of choosing Roar. Sleep Talk negates the priority on Roar, so you move first. Ive been testing the idea, and it quite effective with hazards and support.
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP | 252 SPEED
Rest
Sleep Talk
Roar
Dragonpulse
You have a 1/3 chance of choosing Roar. Sleep Talk negates the priority on Roar, so you move first. Ive been testing the idea, and it quite effective with hazards and support.
I think you should definitely mention Rotom-A. He is probably the biggest example of what you are talking about-executing your strategy. Stall teams desperately need spin-blockers, and non of them have reliable recovery. Rotom-A in particular is great since it outspeeds Tyranitar and can burn it before Crunch/Pursuit, then sleep off the damage later.
Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP/16 Atk/232 Def/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Low Kick / Cross Chop / Close Combat
- Payback
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
For this machamp, revenge should be listed as an option since it has the ability to be powered up if machamp moves last or something like that.
Other sleep talk entry hazard abusers:
Aerodactyl; Item - leftovers/babiri berry
Jolly or Timid nature
252 HP / 4 Special Defense / 252 Speed
Rest
Skeep Talk
Whirlwind
Roar
130 base speed, 2/3 chance at a neutral priority switch phazing move, and good special defensive capabilites if used with sandstorm. The only problem with this set is scizor so babiri berry is viable for weakening bullet punch to a possible not OHKO.
Drapion; item - black sludge
Jolly or Timid nature
252 HP / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Rest
Sleep Talk
Whirlwind
Roar
Same principle as the aerodactyl, set up some entry hazards and go to town. This one has more problems with fast taunters and dugtrio so paralysis support or azumarill recommended for teammate capabilities.
Cresselia; Item - Flame Orb or Toxic Orb
Timid nature or Calm/Bold nature
Timid - 252 HP / 208 Defense or Special Defense / 48 Speed
Calm/Bold - 252 HP / 192 Defense or Special Defense / 64 Speed
Rest
Sleep Talk
Psycho Shift
Trick
This one is a fun set and is built around status spreading. Spread the burn to incoming physical attackers through trick or psycho shift or put sleep on opponents if psycho shift is selected by sleep talk. Recovery is something cresselia needs, and the EVs given outspeed Jolly and Adamant tyranitar respectively so it can be burned before it crunches or pursuits cresselia to death.
There's more I'm forgetting but meh. Comments are welcomed for help on these few sets.
sleep talk negating phazing moves' negative priority is amazing. I didn't know that. I might do something with it since being asleep and almost always moving first with a move that forces an opponent to switch into hazards will be one of the most annoying things to beat in the game.
I agree with this; on my recently built stall team, being able to rest off all damage and then actually being able to roar out stuff that was slower = amazing. I used Surf/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar Suicune and it beat so many things it became the main phazer.
Suicune would be pretty good at it, but maybe faster things like Aerodactyl or crobat would be better for this. Of course Scizor is a problem.
Running both whirlwind and roar or just roar solves that problem. Sorry if I wasn't clearer before. How about restroar latias?
This set looks excellent. I might even go out and get one for myself- I never knew Armaldo could learn curse.
Armaldo @ Leftovers/Apicot Berry
Battle Armor
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
Rest
Sleep Talk
Curse
Stone Edge / X-Scissor
That's a really great idea, I forgot that some pokemon could learn both. I know Aerodactyl can learn both, so that gives a really fast phazer right there. Like other people have said, look out for Scizor, though.
How exactly does that work, though? As in, does the opponent even get a chance to attack, or is she/he completely helpless on those turns? Stall teams should really start using this if it's the latter. Entry hazards would stack up so fast! Priority users wouldn't be too bad with the exception of Bullet Punch and maybe Aqua Jet, either.
Completely helpless as long as you're asleep using sleep talk and you select one of the 2 phazing moves or they use a priority move. Magnezone attracts Heatrans and traps Scizor while Aero takes its weaknesses like a champ under SS. It's pretty viable.
It's like the perfect storm XD
The only problem with it would be that 33% chance of not phazing...as long as the pokemon has bulk, it should be fine.
What about the effectiveness of Taunt though? What if someone Taunted after Aerodactyl Rested (just an example)? Wouldn't most Talkers have their strategies ruined? i.e. CroCune can't CM, so it loses a lot of walling/offensive power.
Really? I kinda wanna try a Resttalk user with mail now, just for kicks. I can't really think of a practical application, but I think it's a very interesting aspect to look at.
I was criticizing that the set was labelled "Bad" when it's primarily used for UU. UU and Bad don't mean the same thing at all... Milotic, I believe is the only predominantly defensive pokemon that gains stats from sleeping!
Don't Tyranitar and Scizor threaten ANY Latias set with crunch, pursuit, and U-turn? Yes.
This was a sample set on speed shuffling. A handful of pokemon can run similar sets with good speed and less weaknesses; Suicune, Gyarados, Crobat, Zapdos, etc.
I think in the examples of underrated SleepTalkers, Metagross deserves a mention:
@Leftovers or Shed Shell/Nature:Impish
252Hp/16Atk/164Def/64SDef/12Spe
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake/Thunderpunch/Icepunch
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
With an outstanding 130 Defense and useful resistances to most notably Dragon and Ice with an immunity to toxic spikes, Metagross can block paths of physical sweepers, and hit them hard from 135 base atk even with only 16 evs. Meteor Mash allows you to kill that Dragon Dance Salamence, who'll manage to do maximum 43% damage even at +1 (232 atk/naughty). CB Tyranitar, Mamoswine and Weavile also fall to it. Thenotable con of this set is that it falls to Gyarados without ThunderPunch, who easily sets up on it. Magnezone traps it and destroys it, if Metagross lacks EQ. So Shed Shell might be an option. If you opt for Ice punch for Gliscor/Hippowdon, steels wall you,thats why rotom-a, Zapdos, Celebi are good partners to handle Gyarados, Bulky Grounds and Magezone.
252Hp/16Atk/164Def/64SDef/12Spe
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake/Thunderpunch/Icepunch
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
With an outstanding 130 Defense and useful resistances to most notably Dragon and Ice with an immunity to toxic spikes, Metagross can block paths of physical sweepers, and hit them hard from 135 base atk even with only 16 evs. Meteor Mash allows you to kill that Dragon Dance Salamence, who'll manage to do maximum 43% damage even at +1 (232 atk/naughty). CB Tyranitar, Mamoswine and Weavile also fall to it. Thenotable con of this set is that it falls to Gyarados without ThunderPunch, who easily sets up on it. Magnezone traps it and destroys it, if Metagross lacks EQ. So Shed Shell might be an option. If you opt for Ice punch for Gliscor/Hippowdon, steels wall you,thats why rotom-a, Zapdos, Celebi are good partners to handle Gyarados, Bulky Grounds and Magezone.
Seems like a classic example of moveslot syndrome XD As long as you cover your weaknesses with another pokemon or two, it should be effective! Especially with something that bulky...I think people overlook the fact that it has the third best defensive stat in OU.I think in the examples of underrated SleepTalkers, Metagross deserves a mention:
@Leftovers or Shed Shell/Nature:Impish
252Hp/16Atk/164Def/64SDef/12Spe
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake/Thunderpunch/Icepunch
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
With an outstanding 130 Defense and useful resistances to most notably Dragon and Ice with an immunity to toxic spikes, Metagross can block paths of physical sweepers, and hit them hard from 135 base atk even with only 16 evs. Meteor Mash allows you to kill that Dragon Dance Salamence, who'll manage to do maximum 43% damage even at +1 (232 atk/naughty). CB Tyranitar, Mamoswine and Weavile also fall to it. Thenotable con of this set is that it falls to Gyarados without ThunderPunch, who easily sets up on it. Magnezone traps it and destroys it, if Metagross lacks EQ. So Shed Shell might be an option. If you opt for Ice punch for Gliscor/Hippowdon, steels wall you,thats why rotom-a, Zapdos, Celebi are good partners to handle Gyarados, Bulky Grounds and Magezone.