United States Online Poker indictment.

[Curtains]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/15/news/economy/online_poker_indictments/index.htm

This is a big problem for a lot of people. I know a few people personally that rely solely on online poker for their livelihood. My personal opinion is that the F.B.I did what they had to do. The companies were doing illegal things with the banks if i understand correctly. Its a shame people are out of hundreds to hundred thousands of dollars but we (I and others) live in a society where the previously or currently rich only want people to get rich by the standard school-degree cycle. Its sad really. These people are gonna have to get real jobs now. Thats difficult in this economy. Anyways without making this tl;dr I think this is highly politically motivated. (Its correct according to laws).



THOUGHTS?

 

[iDunno]

Its a shame people are out of hundreds to hundred thousands of dollars but we (I and others) live in a society where the previously or currently rich only want people to get rich by the standard school-degree cycle.

Maybe you'll finally learn some grammar??????????????????

 

[CaptKirby]

Anachronistic nutjob puritanical morals strike again. Possibly just political motivations to protect Vegas. I cannot declare what exactly the reasons are or are not, but whatever they are, they are wrong. The people who defied these bad laws are in my eyes are, and I mean this seriously, if not heroic at least brave, no matter what motivation money played into it.

 

[az]

holy fucked up sentences!

can someone please explain to me why it falls to the us to prosecute non-us companies dealing with their citizens or is this just america being ridiculous as per usual

 

[Curtains]

holy fucked up sentences!

can someone please explain to me why it falls to the us to prosecute non-us companies dealing with their cities or is this just america being ridiculous as per usual

Both really. The US wants to tax everything hard. And like another poster said its basically to bring people to vegas/atlantic city.

 

[MrIndigo]

Yeah, those stupid laws that say I can't murder my neighbour when he's being a dick. I should just violate them anyway and then expect not to be prosecuted, right?


Simple positivism, guys - If the law says you can't do X, then you can expect relevant prosecutions if you can't do X. If you don't like the laws, protest them, lobby them out, whatever. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you should get away with breaking them.

 

[az]

way to miss the point

the internet does not belong to america

the only people that america has the right to prosecute here are their own banks

 

[Morm]

it's a horrible shame that our society frowns upon getting rich without contributing to society in the process?

 

[Curtains]

it's a horrible shame that our society frowns upon getting rich without contributing to society in the process?

Depends on what you mean by contributing. Every player is "contributing" something to the site in order to keep it running. Society is a very broad statement. Mcdonalds' CEO contribute to society by keeping kids overweight. Basketball players keep people entertained. So do online poker players.

 

[cookie]

It's a shame but hardly surprising: society is fundamentally founded on people helping each other out. Someone who makes a living without contributing to society operates somewhat outside it, so the masses will frown upon that. What use are they? Society has evolved to frown upon people who don't contribute to it.

 

[Morm]

Depends on what you mean by contributing. Every player is "contributing" something to the site in order to keep it running. Society is a very broad statement. Mcdonalds' CEO contribute to society by keeping kids overweight. Basketball players keep people entertained. So do online poker players.

Way to 'justify' your hobby as contributing. I meant something that progresses society, which is what I understood your comment about "school-degree cycle" to be about.

Strangely, someone who leeches off society technically has the most to potentially gain in a cost-benefit ratio, so it could be a bit of jealousy as well, cookie.

 

[az]

this isn't "society" (read: the masses, the people, the civilians, etc) frowning on anything

this is an elite law-making body making something illegal

morm not that i like that this is how the system works, but they are contributing to society as much as any other person working a job -- they're paying money into banks

 

[Morm]

Oh I totally agree with you, I was simply trying to figure out if the OP meant by his school-degree cycle bullshit.

 

[Curtains]

what i mean is. You go to high school. You go to college/Uni for 4-6 years. You get a job making 40k- 70k + a year starting out then you move your way up, Your age 30 by time you have your shit together. But a 19 year old who learns a game and earns his profits through skill/effort on a poker site earns as much money as you do in a month than what you earn in a year. Look at youtube. Look at the kids playing video game making millions. Xjawz, a 16-17 year old with 300k subs bought a benz off his youtube page earnings. What does he contribute to society? Hes helping little kids be better at a game that means nothing to the average joe. Should the united states shut down youtube?

 

[Zebstrika]

If Morm isn't correct, then explain why gambling laws exist. Without them, we have:

Poker sites tell the truth to banks
People play at their own risk, so they are not forced to do anything
No one else is giving a shit.

And besides, I only frown at the people who are doing bad things to society, as in forcing me to work just to counter what they did.

 

[iDunno]

Oh no Curtains, now you can't coast through life off of a hobby that involves little to no real effort! I guess now you have to utilize your extensive library of actual skills and get a job...

Might I suggest English Teacher?

I mean, "indictment" is a pretty big word...

 

[Morm]

It really seems like I am the only person that got the impression that you are upset because you can't make a living off of something frivolous that also doesn't entertain more than you and 5 people at an online table.

I guess it beats the fuck out of a deadly skill set that is completely unemployable. *cough*

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

seems like someone is being tactfully ignored. anyway, op you seem to be upset because people who were previously contributing nothing and simply taking are now out of 'work'???

 

[tennisace]

Anachronistic nutjob puritanical morals strike again. Possibly just political motivations to protect Vegas. I cannot declare what exactly the reasons are or are not, but whatever they are, they are wrong. The people who defied these bad laws are in my eyes are, and I mean this seriously, if not heroic at least brave, no matter what motivation money played into it.

+1, one of my good friends in college legit lost 30K in a night because of this. best part: he's a canadian citizen. this is money that he took time to earn and it really sucks since he was paying tuition for it.

 

[McGrrr]

This has been in the works for 5 years and is obviously politically motivated. It was only a matter of time before the government intervened for tax reasons, especially with anti competition lobbying from bricks and mortar casinos. I am surprised that anyone is surprised.

Relevant: Party at the DOJ

 

[Alan]

i didnt read the article, but is online poker really that profitable?

 

[Atlas]

"Humphrey said Internet poker companies have argued in court that online poker is legal because it is a game of skill, as opposed to a game of chance."

heh heh heh

i didnt read the article, but is online poker really that profitable?

i figure it would follow the same guide lines toward lotterys.

that or the tournaments they run with buy ins. get a few thousand people with a 5 dollar buyin etc

 

[MrIndigo]

way to miss the point

the internet does not belong to america

the only people that america has the right to prosecute here are their own banks

To some extent it does. Most of the servers for most of the internet are hosted in the US and therefore certain types of electronic crimes are considered to have occurred within US jurisdiction.

Furthermore, US citizens regardless of location (can) fall under US taxation jurisdiction, so the participants in the system that benefited from the tax and bank frauding are all within prosecutorial reach.

EDIT: Also, the article suggests all people who have actually been indicted were American citizens living in America and their American-Incorporated companies.

 

[Trax]

Online poker as a form of entertainment is as valuable a job as 95% of the frivolous shit people get paid for, tbh.

 

[az]

To some extent it does. Most of the servers for most of the internet are hosted in the US

let's see this then