Hello Durza, thank you for replying to my post. Maybe its just me or my playstyle, but whenever I use Mega Absol and try to clean late-game, it ends up not doing much because it doesnt have the right coverage. It needs Play Rough for Dark types, Fire Blast for Scizor (although it drops to offensive/band BP anyway). I will try more games with it, then reword my post accordingly.
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USUM UU Viability Ranking Thread V2
- Thread starter Hilomilo
- Start date
- Status
Muk Alola is definetly not A worthy imo. On paper Muk might look like a great blank check to special mons such as lati, serp and gengar but in reality its really easily chipped by rocks and a momentum killer. Sub Seed Serp beats it, most Latis run Scarf nowadays so you dont really need sturdy checks to CM Lati and Scarf Lati will double half of the times in a real match if they see a Muk on the other side, its fairly easy to find midgrounds against muk and wisp gengar is really annoying too. Knock Off is a great move yea, but common mons like Gliscor, Mega Aero, Mamoswine, Terrakion, Cobalion, Hippo, Krook, Mega Aggron or almost every bulky water get easy switch ins.
Muk is really easy chipped by momentum moves or hazards, it doesnt beat mons it should (hydra, loom, azu, mega alt, subseed serp) and really every team has at least 2 mons which get easy switch ins.
no no no no no no no noA --> A-/B+
Muk Alola is definetly not A worthy imo. On paper Muk might look like a great blank check to special mons such as lati, serp and gengar but in reality its really easily chipped by rocks and a momentum killer. Sub Seed Serp beats it, most Latis run Scarf nowadays so you dont really need sturdy checks to CM Lati and Scarf Lati will double half of the times in a real match if they see a Muk on the other side, its fairly easy to find midgrounds against muk and wisp gengar is really annoying too. Knock Off is a great move yea, but common mons like Gliscor, Mega Aero, Mamoswine, Terrakion, Cobalion, Hippo, Krook, Mega Aggron or almost every bulky water get easy switch ins.
Muk is really easy chipped by momentum moves or hazards, it doesnt beat mons it should (hydra, loom, azu, mega alt, subseed serp) and really every team has at least 2 mons which get easy switch ins.
Alolan Muk is the single best blanket check to special attackers in the tier. It's also something that counters one of the best Pokemon in the tier - Latias. Its made Celebi, a top three Pokemon in ORAS, essentially obscene. It's made Ghost-types struggle considerably in UU, see: Gengar, Doublade, Chandelure, Frosslass, etc.
I think you're confused on why Alomuk is so high. It is not because it does a lot of things or can sweep entire teams or wall everything - It's because it does its job EXCEPTIONALLY well. A blanket check to special attackers and dangerous Psychic and Ghost types make it incredibly splashable on tons of builds. Knock Off is also a broken move and nothing likes switching into it.
(also how does Subseed Serp beat it 1v1?? Gunk Shot OHKOs and Poison Jab OHKOs after rocks n.n)
If serp subs on an alomuk switch, it wins 1v1 is what he meant. Serp will slowly chip alomuk with leech seed while only losing a little health. It just keeps subbing up and will win
I nom Haxorus B- to B
Haxorus @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
- Outrage/ Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake/Subsitute
listen im not here to sugar coat this fuckin dinosaur so you consider is b ok im asking because im number 8 on ladder and know what im doing so sit down and shut the fuck up. (my ps is bebo1234)
like i seriously dont give a fuck about detailing this mon ok its good against stall and thats all that matters so raise it
you thought i was egotistical nah heres the actual post
Haxorus is a very good sweeper at the moment due to having a great stall matchup. it is able to set up on most stall pokemon such as Alomomola, Blissey and even Quagsire due to its ability Mold Breaker, bypassing Unaware Mold Breaker also allows it to EQ through Bronzong and bypasses Aggron's Filter ability. Substitute is also an option on Haxorus so you can prevent possible burns from Quagsire, Alomomola and being able to avoid Blissey's Toxic so you can setup safely. Poision Jab at +2 ohkos M-altaria, Sylveon, Togekiss which all stop you from sweeping with Outrage. I personally like Outrage much better than dragonclaw but dragonclaw still works. Outrage is an absolute nuke on any mon paired up with the z move there is no safe switch in. A +2 z ohkos Alomomola, Blissey, Quagsire and since Fairy's are immune to dragon type moves you can just poision jab the M-altaria,Sylveon,Togekiss. Dragondance/ Swordsdance are it's setup moves Swords Dance allows it to completely smash stall while Dragon Dance can still beat stall decently but can also beat Balance with the +1 speed. Although this post is mostly about Haxorus destroying stall It really is viable outside of just beating stall. I've had much success on the ladder with haxorus vs nonstall teams. Hopefully this is enough to encourage you guys to make Haxorus B and thanks for reading all of this. :]
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 396-466 (100.5 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 282-334 (79.6 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 314-370 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 619-730 (128.6 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Scizor: 300-354 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 642-756 (89.9 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and
Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manectric-Mega: 285-336 (101.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You survive hp ice, you dragondance you outspeed the m-manectric and ohko it with outrage)
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 380-448 (111.4 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You easily take the band aquajet you can also take a banded liquidation and dd on it)
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Aggron-Mega: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Can ohko after a bit chip)
https://gyazo.com/e1c78d306e1faa286d9c1b2a41180e0e (proof of my top 8)
Haxorus @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
- Outrage/ Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake/Subsitute
listen im not here to sugar coat this fuckin dinosaur so you consider is b ok im asking because im number 8 on ladder and know what im doing so sit down and shut the fuck up. (my ps is bebo1234)
like i seriously dont give a fuck about detailing this mon ok its good against stall and thats all that matters so raise it
you thought i was egotistical nah heres the actual post
Haxorus is a very good sweeper at the moment due to having a great stall matchup. it is able to set up on most stall pokemon such as Alomomola, Blissey and even Quagsire due to its ability Mold Breaker, bypassing Unaware Mold Breaker also allows it to EQ through Bronzong and bypasses Aggron's Filter ability. Substitute is also an option on Haxorus so you can prevent possible burns from Quagsire, Alomomola and being able to avoid Blissey's Toxic so you can setup safely. Poision Jab at +2 ohkos M-altaria, Sylveon, Togekiss which all stop you from sweeping with Outrage. I personally like Outrage much better than dragonclaw but dragonclaw still works. Outrage is an absolute nuke on any mon paired up with the z move there is no safe switch in. A +2 z ohkos Alomomola, Blissey, Quagsire and since Fairy's are immune to dragon type moves you can just poision jab the M-altaria,Sylveon,Togekiss. Dragondance/ Swordsdance are it's setup moves Swords Dance allows it to completely smash stall while Dragon Dance can still beat stall decently but can also beat Balance with the +1 speed. Although this post is mostly about Haxorus destroying stall It really is viable outside of just beating stall. I've had much success on the ladder with haxorus vs nonstall teams. Hopefully this is enough to encourage you guys to make Haxorus B and thanks for reading all of this. :]
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 396-466 (100.5 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega: 282-334 (79.6 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 314-370 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 619-730 (128.6 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Scizor: 300-354 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 642-756 (89.9 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and
Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manectric-Mega: 285-336 (101.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You survive hp ice, you dragondance you outspeed the m-manectric and ohko it with outrage)
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 380-448 (111.4 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (You easily take the band aquajet you can also take a banded liquidation and dd on it)
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Aggron-Mega: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Can ohko after a bit chip)
https://gyazo.com/e1c78d306e1faa286d9c1b2a41180e0e (proof of my top 8)
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Who do you usually pair him with? Do you have a sample team I could use to try him?
http://pokepast.es/ba53e3405cf15fbf Sylveon helps Haxorus with getting burnt and latias gives haxorus a second chance and M-aggron is a very good way to guarantee rocks which haxorus needs.
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bebo the goat.
Damn what a nice team you got there Bebo ;]
Okay so this isn’t one liner blowing my own trumpet, I’m gonna agree with the above nom. Comparing Haxorus to the other mons in B- (toxicroak, veil mons, cofag), we see how stark the contrast is between the two standards. Haxorus can pretty much beat an entire archetype by itself, as we see from Bebo’s calcs, an archetype that has been on the rise recently (hence the need for a change in rank, it’s always been able to beat stall) and has been one of the best in a tournament setting recently. Just look at SPL, where I believe stall is currently 2-1, the loss being where the player either didn’t bring rocks or didn’t prioritize getting them up. It also has a lot of utility vs fatter balance squads, and is much more splashable than its ranking suggests, due to its ability to BOP stall and a lot of hard balance. Imo it could even rise to B+ If stall keeps getting better, but B is fine for now.
TLDR: stall’s great rn, so’s fat balance. Haxorus bops both and there are no mons in B- that demolish entire archetypes like it does. Rise it!!
Okay so this isn’t one liner blowing my own trumpet, I’m gonna agree with the above nom. Comparing Haxorus to the other mons in B- (toxicroak, veil mons, cofag), we see how stark the contrast is between the two standards. Haxorus can pretty much beat an entire archetype by itself, as we see from Bebo’s calcs, an archetype that has been on the rise recently (hence the need for a change in rank, it’s always been able to beat stall) and has been one of the best in a tournament setting recently. Just look at SPL, where I believe stall is currently 2-1, the loss being where the player either didn’t bring rocks or didn’t prioritize getting them up. It also has a lot of utility vs fatter balance squads, and is much more splashable than its ranking suggests, due to its ability to BOP stall and a lot of hard balance. Imo it could even rise to B+ If stall keeps getting better, but B is fine for now.
TLDR: stall’s great rn, so’s fat balance. Haxorus bops both and there are no mons in B- that demolish entire archetypes like it does. Rise it!!
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I agree with you my friend thanks for helping me build the team <3 but yeah you do make some very strong points like most mons in B- actually do nothing (the mons you named) Haxorus is much better than those other mons and in my opinion easily deserves B and like you said might even possibly deserve B+
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Let me just say that I both agree and disagree with the Haxorus nomination. While it is true that Haxorus is much better than some of the mons in B-, it has trouble setting up. Setting up against stall is not hard, but setting up against offense is a different story. Unfortunately, Haxorus finds itself in an awkward speed tie at 97, which is one point lower than Hydreigon (seriously GF, couldnt have given it 3 more speed ponits?) Running Adamant Dragon Dance leaves you outsped by Timid Nidoking before a boost and +speed natures 100s, which is bad. If you run Jolly, you miss out on all the calcs you listed. Haxorus also needs two DDs to outspeed common scarfers like Infernape, Hydreigon, and Latias. Despite this, I cant deny that its matchup against stall is great.
By the way, fire team. Tried it out and did pretty well. Though it does struggle against Mega Pidgeot (once Aggron is chipped), and hazard stack (since your only Defogger is Scarf Lati, which loses against Klefki, hazard stack is a pain for your team.
By the way, fire team. Tried it out and did pretty well. Though it does struggle against Mega Pidgeot (once Aggron is chipped), and hazard stack (since your only Defogger is Scarf Lati, which loses against Klefki, hazard stack is a pain for your team.
Imo, a mon that literally beats stall by itself, and tears apart from fat balance squads BY ITSELF does not deserve to be B-
Also gonna link this game, showing it’s not deadweight vs offense: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-706165594
This was for NJNPL/GSPL, bebo vs A Hero’s Destiny, spl player.
In this game, Haxorus has a super rough mu. It only really sets up on stuff locked in like azu into Jet or Mag into anything other than specs flash (eventually, it turned out to be scarf) and krook comes in for free and intimidates it. However, it comes in turn 14 and manages to get 2 kills, admittedly the mag was useless at this stage but the krook kill was vital (poison didn’t matter). It allowed lati to spam psychic late game and fish for sp def drops on altaria, which would’ve ended the game and also allowed chandy to come in and spam shadow ball w/o getting pursuit trapped. Had Krook been alive, lati would’ve been forced to lock into psychic to prevent altaria coming in and winning with +1. This would’ve meant krook could come in freely, trap, and then azu had a good chance of winning. All AHD had to do was spam attacks with krook to stop suicine getting a sub, then go Azu and start clicking PR on a 60% Suicine and clean with Jet (alt was in the back as a sack). This game was a pretty good example of Haxorus’ utility vs more offensive builds, and why it deserves a rise.
This was for NJNPL/GSPL, bebo vs A Hero’s Destiny, spl player.
In this game, Haxorus has a super rough mu. It only really sets up on stuff locked in like azu into Jet or Mag into anything other than specs flash (eventually, it turned out to be scarf) and krook comes in for free and intimidates it. However, it comes in turn 14 and manages to get 2 kills, admittedly the mag was useless at this stage but the krook kill was vital (poison didn’t matter). It allowed lati to spam psychic late game and fish for sp def drops on altaria, which would’ve ended the game and also allowed chandy to come in and spam shadow ball w/o getting pursuit trapped. Had Krook been alive, lati would’ve been forced to lock into psychic to prevent altaria coming in and winning with +1. This would’ve meant krook could come in freely, trap, and then azu had a good chance of winning. All AHD had to do was spam attacks with krook to stop suicine getting a sub, then go Azu and start clicking PR on a 60% Suicine and clean with Jet (alt was in the back as a sack). This game was a pretty good example of Haxorus’ utility vs more offensive builds, and why it deserves a rise.
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Thanks Buddy :] I would also like to say that BO (which haxorus does very good vs is the most common playstyle)
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Is this game really a great representation? AHD is playing in SPL yes but I really don’t think this game was at all well played. He gets the rocks up early which means Scizor becomes a huge threat as everything is vulnerable to one of its potential moves at that point in the game (Suicune comes into rocks+U Turn, Chance is SR weak plus knock destroys it, Aggron has to be wary around Superpower) and it has the ability to hold up Haxorus with Bullet Punch, yet it got sacced after about 6 turns, spamming Knock Off against a Mega Aggron which hadn’t even been scouted at that point in the game. Adding to that he also allowed your rocks to go up for the cost of a Volt Switch on Aggron instead of Taunting/EQing with Krook which would’ve kept the momentum in his favour. I don’t really think this matchup is that rough at all, Haxorus had the potential to set up on 2 choice users locked into STAB moves, and Krook can’t even OHKO do Intimidate isn’t that useful unless it’s been chipped prior. I don’t disagree with Haxorus to B but I don’t think this game was a good representation of why it should rise, and I certainly don’t agree with it to B+ simply because it is not as splashable on builds as Pokemon in that tier, even if it is a massive fuck you to stall. As much as you can say stall has improved in this tier, it has only been used 3/30 games so far this SPL and probably sees about the same usage on ladder, so only 10% of the time is that actually coming into play, although it definitely has some good matchups against balance aswell. So yeah, B for this is probably fair but B+ is too much.
Yeah the replay might not be the best but you agree with B and thats all that matters :]] I also didnt plan for it to go B+ the nom was just for B
We’re all literally agreeing on it being in B for now lmao
Tbh I don’t really understand the comment about the mu not being that bad, AHD is packing a ton of Haxorus checks and definitely has counterplay... Anyway the replay isn’t really the point. It was an example of Haxorus not being deadweight, which it wasn’t regardless of any misplays in the early game. I also don’t think we should be equation the popularity of a playstyle or pokemon with effectiveness (see: Arcanine, Forretress, most of the RU ladder etc) as while there is usually correlation there are definitely outliers. It can’t be denied that stall has an excellent record in SPL (funnily enough, I believe AHD is the only player to have beaten stall thus far, but I don’t think we should read too much into that game) So, just to wrap up because I feel like we’re all agreeing anyway, Haxorus shouldn’t rise because it abolishes offense, because it just doesn’t. It should rise because of how it plays vs fatter squads, eg. slaps them around. Guacamole out
Aggron-Mega A- ->B
I mean..... This is actually decent. But before mega evolution, it is just weak. Having 2 quad weaknesses majorly affects its capabilities.
200 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Aggron: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
248/8/252 is the standard set but as you can see, even with 180 base defense, it just dies to equake from Gliscor after spikes, which is quite common. So it cannot freely switch in, and defensive mega Aggron is the standard set.
Even after mega, it is horrible in special, and can just be used as setup fodder for Scizor(Assuming it does not run fire punch), Azumaril or Breloom is in the scene. And basically, all special attackers can KO it in one or 2 hits. Suicune can set up calm mind in its face, and Chandelure, Bewear and (Mega) Aerodactyl can just taunt it.
Also why is Smeargle in C-, it's useless.
I disagree with this if anything aggron should go up. And that gliscor calc is pointless why would you ever switch a non mega'ed aggron on a ground type? The core of sylveon + m-aggron is literally one of the best cores. Sylveon can easily wishpass to Aggron and have it all the way back to a good amount of health if it gets low. M-aggron is immune to poision and resists steel its a perfect core and most of the time that core cant be broken.
Aggron-Mega A- ->B
I mean..... This is actually decent. But before mega evolution, it is just weak. Having 2 quad weaknesses majorly affects its capabilities.
200 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Aggron: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
248/8/252 is the standard set but as you can see, even with 180 base defense, it just dies to equake from Gliscor after spikes, which is quite common. So it cannot freely switch in, and defensive mega Aggron is the standard set.
Even after mega, it is horrible in special, and can just be used as setup fodder for Scizor(Assuming it does not run fire punch), Azumaril or Breloom is in the scene. And basically, all special attackers can KO it in one or 2 hits. Suicune can set up calm mind in its face, and Chandelure, Bewear and (Mega) Aerodactyl can just taunt it.
Also why is Smeargle in C-, it's useless.
+6 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 285-337 (83 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Look at this amazing bulk if rocks arent up you survive the +6 eq and ohko it back with avalanche M-aggron is also an amazing rocker and it shouldnt just be known for its bulk It has an amazing 140 attack and with heavyslam almost always being 120 M-aggron is also helps with breloom (if its not spored) as it can take a mach punch and ohko back with avalanche. I feel like your entire post is on aggron and not M-aggron which is very stupid a mon should not go down in the viability rankings (2 spots down) just because their normal form before the mega is not good. Also all the mons you named that are ''set up fodder'' are not. Scizor cant touch aggron unless its superpower also most aggron's run fp. Suicune can get toxiced (if it hasnt got a sub yet) or it can get roared. Chandelure dies to eq + rocks. No one uses Bewear. And M-aerodactyl would never risk taunting a m-aggron. Aggron also has its benefits with not going mega as it can wall togekiss better and is also a very good m-pidgeot answer.
It also has sturdy which guarantees rocks vs stuff like HO.
252 SpA Pidgeot-Mega Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron: 45-54 (13 - 15.6%) -- possible 7HKO
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While it is true normal Aggron has 2 quad weaknesses, and it can be hard to switch in, this can easily be patched up by leading with it and getting your amazing bulk and filter right away. A good player also wouldnt switch in a normal Aggron against a Gliscor when it is 4x weak to ground. Also, Mega Aggron is not as much as set up fodder as you think.
Aggron-Mega A- ->B
I mean..... This is actually decent. But before mega evolution, it is just weak. Having 2 quad weaknesses majorly affects its capabilities.
200 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Aggron: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
248/8/252 is the standard set but as you can see, even with 180 base defense, it just dies to equake from Gliscor after spikes, which is quite common. So it cannot freely switch in, and defensive mega Aggron is the standard set.
Even after mega, it is horrible in special, and can just be used as setup fodder for Scizor(Assuming it does not run fire punch), Azumaril or Breloom is in the scene. And basically, all special attackers can KO it in one or 2 hits. Suicune can set up calm mind in its face, and Chandelure, Bewear and (Mega) Aerodactyl can just taunt it.
Also why is Smeargle in C-, it's useless.
-Suicune, Scizor, Azu, and Breloom are roared out. The latter two also dont like taking Heavy Slam.
-Bewear does not run Taunt.
-Mega Aerodactyl would never stay in on Mega Aggron and risk being OHKOed by a Heavy Slam.
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I would like to nominate...
B+ to A-/A
Mega Houndoom benefits from not only revenge killing key threats such as Scizor, Cobalion, Serperior and Latias, but also being able to break bulkier Pokemon such as Gliscor, Amoonguss and even Blissey. Truly this shows the viability of this Pokemon. First, let's talk about the faults of Houndoom, so we can get them out of the way first. Mega Houndoom first takes up a Mega slot, while this isn't too bad, strong Megas like Aero, Altaria and Manetric give this Pokemon competition for that slot. Houndoom is weak to every form of hazard in the game, especially Stealth Rocks and with no reliable recovery, it's prone to be worn down. Houndoom's typing defensively isn't great either, weakness to common priority cripples it. These weaknesses lean myself more towards the A- ranking, but I can still see enough potential for it to be A rank material. Here's why:
Firstly, it's a fantastic revenge killer due to it's typing being anti-meta. Fire-type wall-breakers and sweepers are rare, it's only real competition being Z-Hurricane Moltres and Salazzle. Access to Nasty Plot allows Houndoom to boosts it's strong 379 Special Attack (with speed benefit nature) to greater heights to deal with even the bulkiest of walls. Now at first Salazzle's typing may seem it has a better match-up against Pokemon such as Primarina, Sylveon and Perish Trap/Choice Locked Azumarill, but check this:
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
These Pokemon whose typing wall Houndoom's offensive typing, can be dealt with Houndoom's lovely Poison-coverage of Sludge Bomb. Pokemon such as Sylveon, cannot wall Houndoom once it setups on a switch as Sylveon can only do 56% max if defensive with Hyper Voice. Houndoom's decent bulk also sets it apart from Salazzle:
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom-Mega: 96-114 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 361-426 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 128-152 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 248 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 363-427 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 211-250 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom-Mega: 152-179 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Those are some notable examples, Salazzle cannot revenge kill SD Scizor after coming in on Stealth Rock whilst Houndoom can. Houndoom can also setup on Alomomola whilst Salazzle must use it's Z-Crystal, otherwise it loses the match-up.
Houndoom is capable of OHKOing these notable Pokemon without boosts or hazards:
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
(50% chance without a Spike, 100% with a Spike)
These notable Pokemon are 2HKO'd (or +2 Boost) or OHKO'd/2HKO'd with Rocks/Spike Damage
- (OHKO'd after Rocks with Fire Blast)
- (2HKO'd, 56.3% to OHKO with Rocks, Manetric T-Bolt does 67.3% max. Probably the most unfavourable offensive matchup outside of Mega Aero)
- (93.8% to OHKO after Rocks with Fire Blast which can't miss because of No Guard, Hurricane only has a 56.3% to OHKO with Rocks.)
- (Strong chance to OHKO after Rocks, Latias can't revenge kill if it survives unless Life Orb or uses Z-Crystal. Life Orb has 50% chance to kill.)
- (Bulkier variants still is 2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb, offensive variants can survive one Sludge Bomb with Rocks but can't revenge kill unless with Stealth Rock chip damage or crit)
- (98.4% to 2HKO with Rocks SpDef Glis, can't be revenge killed without Stealth Rock chip damage or crit. Offensive variants can't kill 100% of time without Rocks and Houndoom now has a 99.6% 2HKO after Rocks with Dark Pulse the offensive variants.)
- (2HKO'd by Fire Blast, 86.7% to be 2HKO'd by Dark Pulse after Spike chip)
- (2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb)
- (2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb, only should pick off weakened Choice Lock Azu 68.6% min, safe on Perish Trap)
- (Dies to Fire Blast 100% at 79.7%)
- (2HKO'd by Fire Blast)
- (Fat variants still 2HKO'd after Rocks by Fire Blast)
- (2HKO'd 100% after Spike with Dark Pulse and 98.8% with Rocks)
- (2HKO'd by Dark Pulse)
Finally, Pokemon that are either setup fodder or beaten after some chip:
- Hits are too weak despite Water-Typing, setup fodder
- +2 Fire Blast is a 100% chance to kill at 60.6%, due to Houndoom's Dark-typing, it can throw off a Fire Blast if Muk switches in, then switch out and doesn't worry about Pursuit.
- Even the greatest special wall in UU is setup fodder, Seismic Toss is a 3HKO on Houndoom and +4 Fire Blast 2HKOs Blissey. Assuming they come in on your Nasty Plot, just plot again lol.
Obviously +2 can net a lot of OHKOs/2HKOs with or without rocks/spikes, so I won't go over that list. As you can see, it deals with many of the top defensive and offensive Pokemon of the tier.
Due to it's fantastic speed tier, strong special attack, amazing offensive typing and access to Nasty Plot, M-Houndoom excels at both revenge killing, wall-breaking and sweeping mid-to-late game. It's coverage and ability to boost makes it tough to switch-in on without a sack. Also having access to Taunt and Destiny Bond can provide arch-types such as stall and even offensive teams more problems. M-Houndoom can also run Sunny Day or paired with a Pokemon like Klefki with Sunny Day to boost it's power even more and net OHKOs/2HKOs prior it couldn't achieve. With hazard removal which most teams should have anyways and paired with a Pokemon like Amoonguss (which is super splashable right now) who deals with priority users such as Breloom and Azumarill, M-Houndoom truly shines. Certainly it is on par with at least A- Rank Pokemon, maybe even A Rank. (This was a lengthy post, apologies it's my favourite Mega lol)
Mega Houndoom benefits from not only revenge killing key threats such as Scizor, Cobalion, Serperior and Latias, but also being able to break bulkier Pokemon such as Gliscor, Amoonguss and even Blissey. Truly this shows the viability of this Pokemon. First, let's talk about the faults of Houndoom, so we can get them out of the way first. Mega Houndoom first takes up a Mega slot, while this isn't too bad, strong Megas like Aero, Altaria and Manetric give this Pokemon competition for that slot. Houndoom is weak to every form of hazard in the game, especially Stealth Rocks and with no reliable recovery, it's prone to be worn down. Houndoom's typing defensively isn't great either, weakness to common priority cripples it. These weaknesses lean myself more towards the A- ranking, but I can still see enough potential for it to be A rank material. Here's why:
Firstly, it's a fantastic revenge killer due to it's typing being anti-meta. Fire-type wall-breakers and sweepers are rare, it's only real competition being Z-Hurricane Moltres and Salazzle. Access to Nasty Plot allows Houndoom to boosts it's strong 379 Special Attack (with speed benefit nature) to greater heights to deal with even the bulkiest of walls. Now at first Salazzle's typing may seem it has a better match-up against Pokemon such as Primarina, Sylveon and Perish Trap/Choice Locked Azumarill, but check this:
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
These Pokemon whose typing wall Houndoom's offensive typing, can be dealt with Houndoom's lovely Poison-coverage of Sludge Bomb. Pokemon such as Sylveon, cannot wall Houndoom once it setups on a switch as Sylveon can only do 56% max if defensive with Hyper Voice. Houndoom's decent bulk also sets it apart from Salazzle:
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom-Mega: 96-114 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 361-426 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 128-152 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 248 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 363-427 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 211-250 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom-Mega: 152-179 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Those are some notable examples, Salazzle cannot revenge kill SD Scizor after coming in on Stealth Rock whilst Houndoom can. Houndoom can also setup on Alomomola whilst Salazzle must use it's Z-Crystal, otherwise it loses the match-up.
Houndoom is capable of OHKOing these notable Pokemon without boosts or hazards:
These notable Pokemon are 2HKO'd (or +2 Boost) or OHKO'd/2HKO'd with Rocks/Spike Damage
Finally, Pokemon that are either setup fodder or beaten after some chip:
Obviously +2 can net a lot of OHKOs/2HKOs with or without rocks/spikes, so I won't go over that list. As you can see, it deals with many of the top defensive and offensive Pokemon of the tier.
Due to it's fantastic speed tier, strong special attack, amazing offensive typing and access to Nasty Plot, M-Houndoom excels at both revenge killing, wall-breaking and sweeping mid-to-late game. It's coverage and ability to boost makes it tough to switch-in on without a sack. Also having access to Taunt and Destiny Bond can provide arch-types such as stall and even offensive teams more problems. M-Houndoom can also run Sunny Day or paired with a Pokemon like Klefki with Sunny Day to boost it's power even more and net OHKOs/2HKOs prior it couldn't achieve. With hazard removal which most teams should have anyways and paired with a Pokemon like Amoonguss (which is super splashable right now) who deals with priority users such as Breloom and Azumarill, M-Houndoom truly shines. Certainly it is on par with at least A- Rank Pokemon, maybe even A Rank. (This was a lengthy post, apologies it's my favourite Mega lol)
On the second plot you get toxiced, and then the blissey can softboiled once or twice. I agree if you predict correctly something will have to be sacked on the opposing team, but honestly quagsire takes one fire blast + dark pulse, so vs stall it wont be sweeping.I would like to nominate...
B+ to A-/A
Mega Houndoom benefits from not only revenge killing key threats such as Scizor, Cobalion, Serperior and Latias, but also being able to break bulkier Pokemon such as Gliscor, Amoonguss and even Blissey. Truly this shows the viability of this Pokemon. First, let's talk about the faults of Houndoom, so we can get them out of the way first. Mega Houndoom first takes up a Mega slot, while this isn't too bad, strong Megas like Aero, Altaria and Manetric give this Pokemon competition for that slot. Houndoom is weak to every form of hazard in the game, especially Stealth Rocks and with no reliable recovery, it's prone to be worn down. Houndoom's typing defensively isn't great either, weakness to common priority cripples it. These weaknesses lean myself more towards the A- ranking, but I can still see enough potential for it to be A rank material. Here's why:
Firstly, it's a fantastic revenge killer due to it's typing being anti-meta. Fire-type wall-breakers and sweepers are rare, it's only real competition being Z-Hurricane Moltres and Salazzle. Access to Nasty Plot allows Houndoom to boosts it's strong 379 Special Attack (with speed benefit nature) to greater heights to deal with even the bulkiest of walls. Now at first Salazzle's typing may seem it has a better match-up against Pokemon such as Primarina, Sylveon and Perish Trap/Choice Locked Azumarill, but check this:
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 248-294 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
These Pokemon whose typing wall Houndoom's offensive typing, can be dealt with Houndoom's lovely Poison-coverage of Sludge Bomb. Pokemon such as Sylveon, cannot wall Houndoom once it setups on a switch as Sylveon can only do 56% max if defensive with Hyper Voice. Houndoom's decent bulk also sets it apart from Salazzle:
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom-Mega: 96-114 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Houndoom-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 361-426 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 128-152 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 248 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 363-427 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 211-250 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom-Mega: 152-179 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Those are some notable examples, Salazzle cannot revenge kill SD Scizor after coming in on Stealth Rock whilst Houndoom can. Houndoom can also setup on Alomomola whilst Salazzle must use it's Z-Crystal, otherwise it loses the match-up.
Houndoom is capable of OHKOing these notable Pokemon without boosts or hazards:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(50% chance without a Spike, 100% with a Spike)
These notable Pokemon are 2HKO'd (or +2 Boost) or OHKO'd/2HKO'd with Rocks/Spike Damage
- (OHKO'd after Rocks with Fire Blast)
- (2HKO'd, 56.3% to OHKO with Rocks, Manetric T-Bolt does 67.3% max. Probably the most unfavourable offensive matchup outside of Mega Aero)
- (93.8% to OHKO after Rocks with Fire Blast which can't miss because of No Guard, Hurricane only has a 56.3% to OHKO with Rocks.)
- (Strong chance to OHKO after Rocks, Latias can't revenge kill if it survives unless Life Orb or uses Z-Crystal. Life Orb has 50% chance to kill.)
- (Bulkier variants still is 2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb, offensive variants can survive one Sludge Bomb with Rocks but can't revenge kill unless with Stealth Rock chip damage or crit)
- (98.4% to 2HKO with Rocks SpDef Glis, can't be revenge killed without Stealth Rock chip damage or crit. Offensive variants can't kill 100% of time without Rocks and Houndoom now has a 99.6% 2HKO after Rocks with Dark Pulse the offensive variants.)
- (2HKO'd by Fire Blast, 86.7% to be 2HKO'd by Dark Pulse after Spike chip)
- (2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb)
- (2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb, only should pick off weakened Choice Lock Azu 68.6% min, safe on Perish Trap)
- (Dies to Fire Blast 100% at 79.7%)
- (2HKO'd by Fire Blast)
- (Fat variants still 2HKO'd after Rocks by Fire Blast)
- (2HKO'd 100% after Spike with Dark Pulse and 98.8% with Rocks)
- (2HKO'd by Dark Pulse)
Finally, Pokemon that are either setup fodder or beaten after some chip:
- Hits are too weak despite Water-Typing, setup fodder
- +2 Fire Blast is a 100% chance to kill at 60.6%, due to Houndoom's Dark-typing, it can throw off a Fire Blast if Muk switches in, then switch out and doesn't worry about Pursuit.
- Even the greatest special wall in UU is setup fodder, Seismic Toss is a 3HKO on Houndoom and +4 Fire Blast 2HKOs Blissey. Assuming they come in on your Nasty Plot, just plot again lol.
Obviously +2 can net a lot of OHKOs/2HKOs with or without rocks/spikes, so I won't go over that list. As you can see, it deals with many of the top defensive and offensive Pokemon of the tier.
Due to it's fantastic speed tier, strong special attack, amazing offensive typing and access to Nasty Plot, M-Houndoom excels at both revenge killing, wall-breaking and sweeping mid-to-late game. It's coverage and ability to boost makes it tough to switch-in on without a sack. Also having access to Taunt and Destiny Bond can provide arch-types such as stall and even offensive teams more problems. M-Houndoom can also run Sunny Day or paired with a Pokemon like Klefki with Sunny Day to boost it's power even more and net OHKOs/2HKOs prior it couldn't achieve. With hazard removal which most teams should have anyways and paired with a Pokemon like Amoonguss (which is super splashable right now) who deals with priority users such as Breloom and Azumarill, M-Houndoom truly shines. Certainly it is on par with at least A- Rank Pokemon, maybe even A Rank. (This was a lengthy post, apologies it's my favourite Mega lol)
I also dont think Haxorus is that great vs stall either since it gets toxiced by everything. Obviously its better vs stall than most mons, but its not amazing by any means.
Salazzle, heal bell Togekiss and Heracross do better vs stall than haxorus or houndoom imo.
Not that your post was about stall specifically, its just that personally I care about nothing else..
Meet Lum Berry Swords Dance Haxorus!
As seen by this calc stall gets broken by Haxorus, especially if Haxorus enters the battle field on a free switch against a Pokémon like Blissey. Haxorus is by all means an amazing stall breaker, Heracross may be better with the fact that is burnt but then again Quagsire can’t ignore Haxorus’ Swords Dances. Please don’t underestimate a viable stall breaker without solid evidence that it is not amazing or outclassed.
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 391-462 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
As seen by this calc stall gets broken by Haxorus, especially if Haxorus enters the battle field on a free switch against a Pokémon like Blissey. Haxorus is by all means an amazing stall breaker, Heracross may be better with the fact that is burnt but then again Quagsire can’t ignore Haxorus’ Swords Dances. Please don’t underestimate a viable stall breaker without solid evidence that it is not amazing or outclassed.
Haxorus is not a bad stallbreaker in any sense of the word. While it can get toxiced, not only does it have Lum Berry, but it also can run a Substitute set. Salazzle, while immunity to toxic helps it, can still struggle. In fact, Haxorus is probably the best stallbreaker we have. Not only does Mold Breaker ignore Unaware, but it has a massive 147 attack and DD/SD to boot. Being physical also helps it against the great special wall that is Blissey. Haxorus IS an amazing stallbreaker, and I would love to hear your reasoning for why its worse than the ones you mentioned besides "it gets toxiced by everything."
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