Thats a pretty tough question, and is really up to personal preference. In terms of matchups, i think xerneas groudon is the strongest pairing but again rayogre and double primal are very strong also. In a way it depends on your playstyle.So on May 29 I have regionals.bthe thing is, I have no idea what to use. What do you guys think is the current strongest archetype?
Just so you know I'm in seniors division, Melbourne regional.
I used big six about a week ago at a mid season showdown, where I scored 2nd. It wasn't exactly big six, it was Groudon xerneas Landorus Thundurus smeargle and salamence. What play style would this go into? I felt very comfortable using Landorus therian. I was also spamming intimidate. I lost to number one because of a extreme speed crit taking out my xerneas.Thats a pretty tough question, and is really up to personal preference. In terms of matchups, i think xerneas groudon is the strongest pairing but again rayogre and double primal are very strong also. In a way it depends on your playstyle.
If you are more inclined to fast/hyper offense, use RayOgre
If you have a more methodical playstyle, use Double Primal or Yveltal Groudon (or even dialga kyogre)
If you want to use big 6 then thats totally fine also but just be aware that everybody will be prepared for it
If you want to use something fun, use gravity spam (kyu w/groudon), but this is usually quite inconsistent and requires a lot of set up, however it is totally viable
I'm leaning toward yveltal groudon at the minute as i think that in theory, a core of yveltal groudon thundurus can deal with a tonne of threats, and the last 3 mons can just optimise matchups, but that's just my opinion
Hope that kinda answers your question, if you need help teambuilding feel free to ask here
I would say your Big 6 variation is more of a reactionary playstyle (double genies, salamence, groudon), mixed with offensive/set up (xerneas smeargle). Hard to define, but it's something around that. Other reactionary teams (which are teams that require different approaches at team preview depending on what your opponent has brought) include double primal teams and other methodical archetypes including dialga kyogre, yveltal groudon and even xerneas kyogre (to name a few).I used big six about a week ago at a mid season showdown, where I scored 2nd. It wasn't exactly big six, it was Groudon xerneas Landorus Thundurus smeargle and salamence. What play style would this go into? I felt very comfortable using Landorus therian. I was also spamming intimidate. I lost to number one because of a extreme speed crit taking out my xerneas.
Tl:dr what is this teams play style
Hey man, sorry about the late responseHey, I could use some help with my team. Here's what I've got so far:
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Oblivion Wing
- Protect
- Dark Pulse
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge
- Low Kick
Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Super Fang
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
Here's the logic behind the team: Primal Groudon and Yveltal have good type synergy with one another, and are also just offensive monsters. I thought I'd make Groudon slow and bulky as a way to counter TR teams, but I don't know if just giving it some speed would be better. I was thinking about making Yveltal Timid, but I'm not really sure. Kangaskhan is another powerful offensive threat, with access to great priority moves like Fake Out and Sucker Punch; the latter being helped by Dark Aura. I was thinking of running Drain Punch over Low Kick for extra longevity, but the greater damage from Low Kick is probably better, right? Scrappy over Inner Focus to flinch those Ghost types turn one. Crobat is for utility and speed control, obviously. Copied the EVs from the Sets for 2016 thread. Outspeeds everything it needs to, while keeping some bulk. Lum for Swagger and Scarf Dark Void Smeargle. Kanga's Fake Out can deal with opposing Prankster mons, so I thought Lum would be more useful than Mental Herb.
I was thinking of adding either a Ferrothorn or an Aegislash to this team, both are fairy resists, and both can potentially be anti-TR. Leaning more towards Ferrothorn, as it can beat Kyogre. No idea about the last mon.
Anyway, let me know what you think.
Is a reactionary team bad? If so, what should I do?I would say your Big 6 variation is more of a reactionary playstyle (double genies, salamence, groudon), mixed with offensive/set up (xerneas smeargle). Hard to define, but it's something around that. Other reactionary teams (which are teams that require different approaches at team preview depending on what your opponent has brought) include double primal teams and other methodical archetypes including dialga kyogre, yveltal groudon and even xerneas kyogre (to name a few).
Thanks a bunch, man :) With Thundurus as speed control and Taunt support, should I replace Crobat with something else, or do you still think it's worth keeping on the team?Hey man, sorry about the late response
Your current team looks as though thundurus and ferrothorn would fit really nicely onto it. This allows your team to handle a load of common threats, for example, a thundurus/yveltal lead will give you a promising lead vs stuff like kyogre etc. Ferrothorn allows you to beat xerneas a little more consistently and allows you to beat kyogre's TR mode.
Here are some sample sets:
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Swagger
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
- Outspeeds positive 252 speed base 90's by 2 points and landorus-t by one point (158).
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus: 144-170 (81.3 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus in Heavy Rain: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- (Water spout is a 2HKO after taking thunderbolt damage)
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 180 HP / 60 Def Thundurus: 184-218 (103.9 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 180 HP / 60 Def Thundurus: 80-94 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus: 150-177 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
If you want to know how i would go about using Yveltal-Groudon teams, check out my latest RMT, and if you want to use any of the sets I use then that's completely fine :)
- 156+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 218-258 (107.9 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn: 55-66 (30.3 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 156+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 182-216 (103.4 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 80-95 (44.1 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 59-70 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 6.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega salamence would be a really good replacement for crobat, it helps vs rayquaza which your team sorely needs, and provides intimidate support which is also great. I would also recommend trying out a few of the spreads in my latest rmt which i mentioned in my last post, as they are a little more optimal than the ones you mentioned (e.g for yveltal, groudon etc)Thanks a bunch, man :) With Thundurus as speed control and Taunt support, should I replace Crobat with something else, or do you still think it's worth keeping on the team?
Thanks again :) Yeah, I checked out your RMT. I was planning on trying out your spreads. I've never had the patience for figuring out that level of meticulous optimization, so that's a big help.Mega salamence would be a really good replacement for crobat, it helps vs rayquaza which your team sorely needs, and provides intimidate support which is also great. I would also recommend trying out a few of the spreads in my latest rmt which i mentioned in my last post, as they are a little more optimal than the ones you mentioned (e.g for yveltal, groudon etc)
Happy to help :)Thanks again :) Yeah, I checked out your RMT. I was planning on trying out your spreads. I've never had the patience for figuring out that level of meticulous optimization, so that's a big help.
Hey man sorry about the late reply, I've been pretty busy lately :/So I try running this team High/Low with Trick Room as an accent. This team is 10-10 on Battle Spot Then I tweaked with it and everything fell off the the wagon and I started getting mad with them. This is the original team. Also looking to exchange one of my Megas I do wreck myself when choose both of them.
This team gets checked by scarfed and Herbed Smeragle, Ferrothorn and Amoongus. Worse under Trick Room. Here are the individual roles I generally have them at.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Protect
Point of this one is to hit as hard and as fast as possible. I chose Tomb over Slide is not become Wide Guard bait and gives it a degree of speed control. While the lack of power it carries may not be desirable its better than trying to fight off a wide guard. I think I need to put some bulk in him to be more of an enforcer type than seemingly the glass jaw type it is now.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
Khan is Standard Low kick pretty much KOs Fellow Khans. I was considering switching Sucker Punch for Crunch for more reliable dark move. If Taunt isnt set up Sucker Punch becomes a guessing game and hope you are right. I dont get much use outta her overall and I think I only used her less than 3 times in Battle Spot.
Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Cress the the support superstar of the team. If shes not setting up TR for Kyorge shes Swapping skills with Groudon to maintain weather advantage. Shes bulked up to take insane amount of abuse from Mega Khan and Mega Mence with 2hko and 3hko respectively. Her Ice beam hurts Landurous-T and Mence but I think I need to invest more into her power in case of being taunted.
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 49
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Kyorge is dependent on TR. The EV spread allows it to take Mega Khans Double Edge. Helping Hand Thunder 2hkos another Kyorge. Lv 49 promises under trick room it will go before a lv 50 identical Kyorge. Ice Beam is well Ice Beam
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect
Another Mega. Generally thrives in TR but isnt always needed. Mega Maw KOs Xerneas and Yvetal. Keeping sucker punch it serves it better. Sometimes it leads to cut attack stats.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt
This guys leads a lot to taunt pranksters when it works. Its for the most part a standard Offense Thundurus. You see Grass Knot and be like wtf right? Well it hurts Groudon for at least 60% damage. 80% with Helping hand. Good to set up a revenge kill by Groudon or Khan.
I know I need some more experience with this team but I know there are general problems like to who takes the lead. There isnt always that one guy. Any other thoughts and tips would be appreciated. I do have battle vids saved if you like to view them.
Herbed smeargle is a real pain to deal with in bo1 scenarios. The best 'available' counter is safeguard lum bronzong, which is able to set up safeguard with relative ease as well as provide a safe counter to xerneas in xerneas smeargle leads. Bronzong and kyogre are two fantastic mons to use vs big 6, although you can't lead with both. The best thing to lead is i would say groudon bronzong, although in this scenario a slow groudon would be preferable so that you can utilise trick room to gain the advantage over your opponent. Other mons you can use include talonflame, who is able to OHKO smeargle only if you know that it is indeed mental herb, which is why bronzong is overall better in bo1. Substitute fast groudon will work against herb sets with thundurus vs big 6, but again you need to know that it is mental herb. Substitute salamence will also work if you're not going up against big 6, although this is good vs big 6 in bo3 if your opponent is inclined to lead groudon. Lum safeguard cressselia fulfills a similar role to bronzong in setting up safeguard safely and keeps your original 6, also kangaskhan is a great counter to most smeargles since it deals with both sash and herb sets well. If you want sample sets for any of the mons i mentioned feel free to askWhat you do with Herbed Smeragle?
Id like to see that Kang setHerbed smeargle is a real pain to deal with in bo1 scenarios. The best 'available' counter is safeguard lum bronzong, which is able to set up safeguard with relative ease as well as provide a safe counter to xerneas in xerneas smeargle leads. Bronzong and kyogre are two fantastic mons to use vs big 6, although you can't lead with both. The best thing to lead is i would say groudon bronzong, although in this scenario a slow groudon would be preferable so that you can utilise trick room to gain the advantage over your opponent. Other mons you can use include talonflame, who is able to OHKO smeargle only if you know that it is indeed mental herb, which is why bronzong is overall better in bo1. Substitute fast groudon will work against herb sets with thundurus vs big 6, but again you need to know that it is mental herb. Substitute salamence will also work if you're not going up against big 6, although this is good vs big 6 in bo3 if your opponent is inclined to lead groudon. Lum safeguard cressselia fulfills a similar role to bronzong in setting up safeguard safely and keeps your original 6, also kangaskhan is a great counter to most smeargles since it deals with both sash and herb sets well. If you want sample sets for any of the mons i mentioned feel free to ask
Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ KangaskhaniteId like to see that Kang set
I thought a standard set was jolly with 252 in both atk and speed. I figure this set lets it tank certain threats?Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus / Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 172 Atk / 76 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
Just a standard set really, lives a low kick from opposing mega kangaskhan, with either inner focus or scrappy depending on how worried you are about gravity leads etc, I normally go inner focus tbf, up to you
Draconid said it lives a Low Kick from opposing Kangaskhan.I thought a standard set was jolly with 252 in both atk and speed. I figure this set lets it tank certain threats?
Hey man :)Newbie VGC Builder here. Been playing a lot to try to find my playstyle, and I found I like an offensive, controlly style. So this would be "my" first team.
Anyways, here's my RayOgre team :)
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Water Pulse / Surf
- Flamethrower
- Protect
So a lot of questions here of course. No mega? All special? No priority? What the heck is this?! Now now let me explain myself here. I really valued the weather immunity that this Pokemon brings, and I hated losing it when I mega'd him. I also hated being very restricted on who I bring as my mega, and finally I also hated getting Intimidated and having my, for the most part, 0HKOs turn into 2HKOs, which wasn't great for this mon. So my solution? Special Ray. Dragon Pulse is enough to wipe out most opposing dragons and do neutral STAB to most things. Flamethrower 0HKOs Mawile, Scizor and Ferro fairly reliably. Water Pulse almost always OHKOs 252 HP Groudon, but I've used Surf a bit too and I situationally loved it. Protect is of course important.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This is a fairly standard Kyogre. EVs could always use some work, but I figured I'd get more detailed on EVs once I figure out the Pokemon more at large. Origin Pulse I prefer over Water Spout as I dislike the damage drop. Thunder is for opposing Kyogres as I don't have many answers for that outside of Ferro. Ice Beam handles any drags, genies, etc. that Ray didn't get to/can't get to. Also hits grass and everything else indiscriminately.
Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect
I actually really really like Whimsicott. This is my go-to against Smeargle and most other general-purpose supports that I don't need Fake Out pressure against. Taunt-core I feel is a great move combination that can lock up any misplay an opponent makes into a useless mon. I opted for Tailwind for speed control. I definitely did not want to run this team slow initially due to MegaRay, but as I'm slowly tuning the team, I'm thinking it may not be so bad. I really dislike being fully reliant on it though.
Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint
This little guy. I really like him. If I'm not taking Whimsicott as my support, I'm taking him. Fake Out is great support for when I need to put on pressure immediately, Volt Tackle handles Kyogre easily, Nuzzle helps with speed control, and feint is such a nice tech-y move that provides so much momentum it's crazy. Also is really good against Thundurus for obvious reasons.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Fairly generic Ferrothorn. I'm not totally sure on it's item, but every Kangashkan I ask seems to hate it, so it's got that going for it. Power Whip to 2hko Kyogre, Gyro Ball to 1hko Xern after Geo, Leech Seed to punish the enemy not having fire, and protect. EVs are enough to kill Xern with Gyro after Geo, and not much more, otherwise it's generic bulk.
Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Not only my favourite Mega, but I feel she brings a lot to the table. After looking at the team, I felt I didn't hit dragons and Xern enough, and I was also blisteringly fast overall outside of Ferro. Enter Mawile. Adds Intimidate, 1 shots most fairies, 1 shots most dragons, puts on good Sucker Punch pressure and is tanky to boot. I love this monster.
Problem areas I see:
- No real answer to Dialga or anything else I need to hit with ground as I sort of have none.
- Redirection may be useful, but can't find a good place for it on this team. Redirection for Rayquaza is always appreciated.
- If Whimsicott isn't what I brought and I'm against a Groudon, my speed control is weak.
- Rayquaza's calcs are all very close. If the opponent is running anything more bulky than expected (more than 252 HP), I'm in trouble as most of my calcs will be 2HKO then.
- Amoonguss. I got nothing to 1 shot this terrorshroom. Yes I can taunt it. Yes I can encore it. But if I don't have rayquaza, I ain't moving it.
- Status. I don't have much status on my team besides Nuzzle where I feel like I could.
Things I definitely want to keep:
- Mega Mawile. Love this Pokemon. Even if the overall team identity has to change for it, that's fine.
- I like it's offensive style. Helps me concentrate when I have momentum going strong.
- Taunt-core. I love using these two moves, and I want them someplace, even if they're not on Whimsi.
- Rayquaza. Preferably normal Ray. Doesn't need to be special ray, but I love the weather immunity he grants me amidst this whole "Every team has a Primal" meta. Though I am not as attached to him as Mawile.
Things I want to change/can see changing:
- I really dislike Leech Seed on ferro. My style is so momentum-based that I only really use Leech Seed for style points when I only need 12% to kill something, otherwise it's won me maybe 1/100 games. I really want more.
- Can't decide on Water Pulse or Surf on Ray. Gotta decide.
- Raichu. He's a great poke, but he isn't extremely unique outside of 1shotting Kyogre and Thundurus' hating him.
- Kyogre set. I like it, but there's so many sets that maybe mine is meh.
So yeah. I know this is more of a "RMT" sort of request, but I'm a newbie builder and really want to "settle into" a team and play a lot with it. I think I've found an overall style I like with this team and I really like some mons on it, but I feel like I'm missing a lot. Thanks for any and all help! :)
Hey, yeah sorry about that. I saw some fully built teams and partially built teams here and wasn't totally sure of what I was okay to post :$ Thanks again! I'll make a post there.Hey man :)
This post is probably more suited to the RMT forum, as you have said. You have sufficient decriptions already so you can just pretty much c+p it there. What this gives you is basically a wider range of opinions, so I'll do my best here to diagnose problems and improve the team here but hopefully the rating community can help you out as well over on this forum (just click post new thread). I'll post my rate later on this thread, so I hope I can help you out.
Mega Mewtwo Y can't hold a Life Orb because it must hold Mewtwonite Y. Even if it could, that would render all the bulk EVs you invested into it relatively useless after 1 round of recoil.Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 60 Def / 124 SpA / 20 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Gravity
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Some caculations:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-189 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 124 HP / 20 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Heavy Rain: 169-199 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 166-196 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Harsh Sun: 165-195 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Mewtwo Y fills its role as a Gravity setter and providing extra coverage for Primal Groudon.
Other than that, I have had lot of trouble creating this team. I even insisted that I use regular Mewtwo rather than X or Y. Is their any insight you guys can give I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you in advance!
Whoops. Don't know how I missed that. Thank you.Mega Mewtwo Y can't hold a Life Orb because it must hold Mewtwonite Y. Even if it could, that would render all the bulk EVs you invested into it relatively useless after 1 round of recoil.