true, but everything is situational. (Although I still say Quagsire is the best damp pokemon.)
I sure as heck like doubles more than singles. My singles playing has stalled to the Ubers ladder on shoddy lol.
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VGC's Metagame
- Thread starter acinod
- Start date
I sure as heck like doubles more than singles. My singles playing has stalled to the Ubers ladder on shoddy lol.
for the raikou, why hp water 60? It doesnt have technician, so it should use 70, and water doesnt offer good coverage with electric. I would use hp ice or hp grass instead.
I think that's the Raikou he has already. Water and electric isn't that bad, either: they cover immunities (grounds are covered by water and water absorbers by electric) and have quite a lot of super-effective hits.
I would say Jolteon is better though. Awesomely fast and much easier to get hold of a good one. The Japanese seem to quite like CM Raikous with substitute in VGC, also.
I would say Jolteon is better though. Awesomely fast and much easier to get hold of a good one. The Japanese seem to quite like CM Raikous with substitute in VGC, also.
Lol, i noticed my team can be transformed into a TR team if i just replaced one of my pokes :D
Thats what i like about vgc, sometimes you can transform your team into another type depending on the pokes you use, for example since i had a goodstuff team to counter trick room, i made 2 TR pokes on purpose so now i pretty much have 2 different teams across 6 pokemon. (I wont go into full detail of my team lol)
Thats what i like about vgc, sometimes you can transform your team into another type depending on the pokes you use, for example since i had a goodstuff team to counter trick room, i made 2 TR pokes on purpose so now i pretty much have 2 different teams across 6 pokemon. (I wont go into full detail of my team lol)
Scizor is not seen often in VGC. It's not seen often mostly because of the abundance of Heat Wave and Fire Blast(and the fact that Surf does decent damage to it, even without rain). Even with Occa, fire moves do a ton of damage and when you only have one or two turns to live, you can't Swords Dance and set up for a sweep like you can in OU.
my avatar doesn't see much action in VGC :(
my avatar doesn't see much action in VGC :(
This thread made me study the damage difference of Pokemon at Level 50 compared to that of Level 100.
What I found out is that when a Pokemon having a base Attack that is less than the base Defense of the foe attacks it, the damage dealt is greater at Level 50 than at Level 100 (assuming the same IVs, EVs and natures). The reverse does not always hold; sometimes the damage dealt at Level 50 is still greater than at Level 100 and sometimes it's smaller (depending on the base HP stat of the foe, among other things).
For instance, Starmie (having base 100 SpA) using Ice Beam against Blissey (having base 135 SpD) would deal more damage at Level 50 than at Level 100, again assuming the same IVs, EVs and natures. (Disclaimer: I'm not advocating the use of Blissey or Starmie in VGC!)
This makes walls having big Def and/or SpD base stats automatically less effective overall at Level 50 than at Level 100.
Something to think about when you create teams for VGC.
What I found out is that when a Pokemon having a base Attack that is less than the base Defense of the foe attacks it, the damage dealt is greater at Level 50 than at Level 100 (assuming the same IVs, EVs and natures). The reverse does not always hold; sometimes the damage dealt at Level 50 is still greater than at Level 100 and sometimes it's smaller (depending on the base HP stat of the foe, among other things).
For instance, Starmie (having base 100 SpA) using Ice Beam against Blissey (having base 135 SpD) would deal more damage at Level 50 than at Level 100, again assuming the same IVs, EVs and natures. (Disclaimer: I'm not advocating the use of Blissey or Starmie in VGC!)
This makes walls having big Def and/or SpD base stats automatically less effective overall at Level 50 than at Level 100.
Something to think about when you create teams for VGC.
My brother used a Scizor in trick room to decent effect. Got him to round 3 at London and he's a real novice at battling. Those bullet punches are really quite handy.
Also I'd like a VGC tournament too. It'd be great to have a kind of Smogon VGC to both come up with new ideas and test old ones.
I came up with an idea too: roar/whirlwind as a viable means of stopping trick room. Not only does this stop trick room from being set up, but it leaves your opponent in a nasty position next turn, with 2 fully-exposed trick room pokémon and no setup. It's a bare-bones idea so far but I could really see this working instead of taunt, on stuff like Arcanine or Swampert. Works because trick room has -6 priority and phazing moves have -1, in case anyone thinks this doesn't work.
Also I'd like a VGC tournament too. It'd be great to have a kind of Smogon VGC to both come up with new ideas and test old ones.
I came up with an idea too: roar/whirlwind as a viable means of stopping trick room. Not only does this stop trick room from being set up, but it leaves your opponent in a nasty position next turn, with 2 fully-exposed trick room pokémon and no setup. It's a bare-bones idea so far but I could really see this working instead of taunt, on stuff like Arcanine or Swampert. Works because trick room has -6 priority and phazing moves have -1, in case anyone thinks this doesn't work.
PBB is lying as he is quite aware that in half of our matches I run said Scizor ;)
It's pretty cool how Base 60 Speed Pokemon are sort of the "Max Speed" mark for TR teams, you will usually not see anyone running higher speeds other than the occasional Brave Metagross. Too add to Viper's Comment, sometimes it's only one pokemon in the team that either makes it or breaks it, so it makes testing them all the much more interesting.
It's pretty cool how Base 60 Speed Pokemon are sort of the "Max Speed" mark for TR teams, you will usually not see anyone running higher speeds other than the occasional Brave Metagross. Too add to Viper's Comment, sometimes it's only one pokemon in the team that either makes it or breaks it, so it makes testing them all the much more interesting.
But that's only you using Scizor on the server, and maybe like one other person. Look at everybody else who doesn't use it. ;)
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
Maybe this is the place to ask...
Why is DV even allowed in VGC?
Maybe I'm way off, but it just seems like before DV, Smeargle was nothing but crap and now he's waaaaaaaay overused just because of DV. I realize there are other uses for him, but it just seems like every single one I see has DV.
80% chance at both pokes in doubles is just rediculously unfair especially from such an otherwise crappy pokemon. :/
I understand why Hypnosis's Accuracy went down. Sleep can be a killer. I can maybe understand 80% chance of Putting 1 poke to sleep, MAYBE, but not 2. An 80% chance to completely shut your opponent down with an otherwise crappy pokemon doesn't make any sense to me. It just doesn't seem...balanced, in what is an otherwise basically balanced game (water beats fire beats grass beats water etc...)
Any thoughts on the effect of DV on the VGC metagame?
Why is DV even allowed in VGC?
Maybe I'm way off, but it just seems like before DV, Smeargle was nothing but crap and now he's waaaaaaaay overused just because of DV. I realize there are other uses for him, but it just seems like every single one I see has DV.
80% chance at both pokes in doubles is just rediculously unfair especially from such an otherwise crappy pokemon. :/
I understand why Hypnosis's Accuracy went down. Sleep can be a killer. I can maybe understand 80% chance of Putting 1 poke to sleep, MAYBE, but not 2. An 80% chance to completely shut your opponent down with an otherwise crappy pokemon doesn't make any sense to me. It just doesn't seem...balanced, in what is an otherwise basically balanced game (water beats fire beats grass beats water etc...)
Any thoughts on the effect of DV on the VGC metagame?
What? You can use the Level 50 Dragnoite at the VGC, as far as I know. It's really inconsistent that they let you do so, but you can.
DV is indeed gay, not that I cant counter it but its still gay when you have to carry around lum/chesto/taunt berries on your pokies just to counter DV sleep which I personally think is the most game-breaking status of all.
Smearegle causes too much over centralization imo because if you ignore the chances of facing a smearegle in the vgc, its 99.9% guaranteed that you will face one and lose.
Smearegle causes too much over centralization imo because if you ignore the chances of facing a smearegle in the vgc, its 99.9% guaranteed that you will face one and lose.
Smeargle isnt that crappy, even without dv it can decently threaten other Pokémon with Endeavor and even if dv was banned or a sleep clause introduced it would certainly carry Spore so I dont see the point. Smeargle forces players to use lums/chestos but please dont jump to the conclusion that smeargle is totally broken - it isnt. Even the occasional scarfvoid smeargle, which is gayness³, can just be boomed in his face
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
Yeah, I agree it can be countered, quite easily in doubles I might add. Spore only effects 1 poke though right? That's not as bad as 2 0_0
It's Pokemon like Smeargle that suck the fun out of battling by requiring that you have a good counter on your team for that pokemon. In that sense, It's kind of like (not completely) like Garchomp.
That being said, the abundance of Smeargle counters (at least the DV version) may eventually scare Smeargle and make it less used. Some of the ideas for a DV Smeargle counter that I have read on this thread were pretty good and creative, without relying on the obvious Chesto/Lum berry.
That being said, the abundance of Smeargle counters (at least the DV version) may eventually scare Smeargle and make it less used. Some of the ideas for a DV Smeargle counter that I have read on this thread were pretty good and creative, without relying on the obvious Chesto/Lum berry.
The only problem with a Smeargle counter is that if you pair a DV smeargle with a Follow Me Togekiss, you are almost assured to put them to sleep. If you use a spread move, you fall asleep on the 2nd turn then he can endeavor you pokemon. Just putting that out there.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
Nah, 2 strong fast spreaders KO smeargle, sashed or scarfed.
Dark Void Smeargle isn't that broken. Smeargle itself is very frail and a priority move along with a pokemon with lum berry is good enough to kill smeargle.
Also, Dark Void doesn't have an 80% chance to sleep both in doubles.
Sleep Both - 64%
Sleep One - 32%
Sleep None - 4%
Puffern - If you pair a Dark Void Smeargle with a follow me togekiss, your team has no strategy besides sleeping the pokemon and once togekiss dies, smeargle is dead. The only way that team would work is if the two leads the opponent uses can't kill a togekiss after an attack with each pokemon, plus a third one with a lum berry or one that dodged. That strategy will fail in most matches.
Lil Fox - You don't need a smeargle counter. A pokemon with Taunt or lum berry is good enough in most cases.
Like it was mentioned earlier, smogon wifi hosts tournaments, normally weekly, and most of the time they are VGC. We host it on IRC so it is easier to run and smoother to manage and everyone can talk in case something happens.
Also, Dark Void doesn't have an 80% chance to sleep both in doubles.
Sleep Both - 64%
Sleep One - 32%
Sleep None - 4%
Puffern - If you pair a Dark Void Smeargle with a follow me togekiss, your team has no strategy besides sleeping the pokemon and once togekiss dies, smeargle is dead. The only way that team would work is if the two leads the opponent uses can't kill a togekiss after an attack with each pokemon, plus a third one with a lum berry or one that dodged. That strategy will fail in most matches.
Lil Fox - You don't need a smeargle counter. A pokemon with Taunt or lum berry is good enough in most cases.
Like it was mentioned earlier, smogon wifi hosts tournaments, normally weekly, and most of the time they are VGC. We host it on IRC so it is easier to run and smoother to manage and everyone can talk in case something happens.
Generally speaking whats a good counter to these starters.
Bronzong (0 Spd IVs, Leftovers)
-Hypnosis
-Trick Room
-Gyroball
-Explosion
Smeargle (Focus Sash)
-Fake Out
-Endeavor
-Dark Void
-Protect
Im sure you all know how this runs, smeargle fakes out the one most likely to taunt or sub. Bronzong TRs. 2nd turn Darkvoid, and then hypnosis on the one most likely to hold a lum berry (otherwise gyroball). The rest of the turns Endeavor/Gyroball, til everything is dead.
Do I have to run another fake outer or another priority move, to get around this?? Or run safeguard or what?? This team overruns me everything time I see it.
Bronzong (0 Spd IVs, Leftovers)
-Hypnosis
-Trick Room
-Gyroball
-Explosion
Smeargle (Focus Sash)
-Fake Out
-Endeavor
-Dark Void
-Protect
Im sure you all know how this runs, smeargle fakes out the one most likely to taunt or sub. Bronzong TRs. 2nd turn Darkvoid, and then hypnosis on the one most likely to hold a lum berry (otherwise gyroball). The rest of the turns Endeavor/Gyroball, til everything is dead.
Do I have to run another fake outer or another priority move, to get around this?? Or run safeguard or what?? This team overruns me everything time I see it.