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White Kyurem & Black Kyurem
- Thread starter Death Phenomeno
- Start date
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Looks Über will be Über.. Usually how this works. Don't need to be trending on the low amount of info avaliable. lol Patiences.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Both regular and White Kyurem have been shown to use Flamethrower in M15 trailers.
While it's true that in earlier seasons the anime wasn't an accurate source when it came to attacks pokemon could learn, it's no longer the case.
It's certainly more reliable than some negative nancies saying "No Kyurem won't get coverage moves because I say so!".
While it's true that in earlier seasons the anime wasn't an accurate source when it came to attacks pokemon could learn, it's no longer the case.
It's certainly more reliable than some negative nancies saying "No Kyurem won't get coverage moves because I say so!".
I'm pretty sure what Kyurem used wasn't Flamethrower because Terrakion uses a similar if not the same move in one Trailer. I'm willing to bet what W-Kyurem used was Cold Burn because it was shown simultaneously with B-Kyruem using what certainly looked like Freeze Shock.
I personally think Kyurem's (and by extension Black/White Kyurem's) Ice STAB is very underrated. If we look at the Steel-types in Ubers, we get Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Steel Arceus, Forretress, Jirachi, Metagross to an extent, Scizor to an extent, Bisharp sometimes and lol Lucario. Out of these, pretty much only Steel Arceus and Jirachi (Metagross is so rare it's not funny) can take on STAB Ice attacks well. This is especially true that Ferrothorn is so common, and Ice hits Ferrothorn for neutral damage. Basically, you could say Ice/Dragon actually give you close to perfect coverage in the Ubers tier anyway. While yes, Water/Fire are better against these Steels, you have remember that Uber walls are like Metroids, ie Ice Beam wrecks them. Groudon, Lugia, Giratina all extremely flat to STAB Ice. The SpA/Atk buffs would certainly make them very viable in Ubers, if they are accurate.
I agree with this post.Kyurem's 2 STABS are actually quite effective in 2 seperate ways.The Dragon STAB grants it great nuetral coverage while Ice provides a lot of SE hits.Once you throw in Focus Blast into the mix you can have great coverage.Is it as good as STAB Water,Fire,Electric, or Ground for dealing with Steels?Of course not.But it does allow it to deal with other threats that certain dragons might have a problem with.
Rayquaza for instance has huge attack stats but struggles against Lugia.If Black Kyurem gets a strong physical Electric or Ice move he won't have to resort to Outrage or Draco Meteor to dent it and might not have to risk Bolt Strike's accuracy like Zekrom.The Teravolt will also help once Multiscale Lugia is released.
I think that is going to be the determining factor for the Kyurem forms.The advancements in their movepools.The stats are looking nice but it won't do much good if they don't have the moves.Black Kyurem is looking for something like Icicle Crash,Ice Shard,Cross Thunder, or even Bolt Strike (doubt this one honestly) to hit physically as right now Kyurem only has Outrage,Dragon Claw,Dragon Tail,Shadow Claw and Stone Edge for physical moves.Volt Switch might also be interesting on it.
White Kyurem has it better.It can have its choice of special Ice move and Draco Meteor for STABs and hopeful Fire moves + Focus Blat will make it have exceptional coverage on most targets.
If they do wind up keeping base 95 speed and go Uber, it won't be the end of their use.95 is actually good in Ubers as you get the jump on:
Ho-Oh
Lugia (See above paragraphs)
Groudon (Who won't appreciate Ice or special Dragon moves.Boosts any Fire move by White Kyurem)
Kyogre (Who won't like Black Kyurem much but could stomp White Kyurem)
Dialga
Giratina A+O (Can't take Ice or Dragon moves very well)
Zekrom (Won't like either STAB)
Reshiram (Can't switch with fear of Dragon moves)
Excadrill (Out of Sand)
Rayquaza (Speed tie.Can't take out a healthy Kyurem with ES if the new forms don't take a defense drop)
Also, while Palkia and Reshiram can gain a boost to their STABS in the right weather, in the wrong weather they have their secondary STABS rendered almost useless.Something to keep in mind for these sets (especially Choice Sets).
Thats right. Dialga has 100hp/100spdef and it can be EVed to survive two full power water spouts. White Kyurem has 125hp/100spdef which means it will have to invest a small amout to survive water spout and still retain a lot of power.
I don't think any of the new formes will be allowed in link battles, just like when the new Rotom formes appeared back when Platinum was released.
I don't get how the word "lol" means I'm upset. I think this thread is really funny.
Except Black Kyurem was shown in a link battle fighting Reshiram a while back.
Rest / Sleep Talk / Surf / Calm Mind Kyogre stands a chance, since Specs Kyurem fails to OHKO with Specs Draco Meteor assuming 165 SpA. It would have to be at full health, though.
Rapid Spin will need to be a priority then, because that extra HP doesn't mean too much if Kyurem comes into Stealth Rock.
438 SpA Specs Rain-boosted Water Spout vs 4/0 White Kyurem: (85.46% - 100.77%)
438 SpA Specs Rain-boosted Water Spout vs 252/252+ WhtKyurem: (53.30% - 62.78%)
That's assuming White Kyurem ends up with 125 HP and 100 SpD. Even with maximum investment, White Kyurem goes down in two hits. Then of course, Dialga has actual functionality being defensively EVd thanks to its many resistances. Kyurem has no business attempting to go the defensive route.
For the record: 438 SpA Rain-boosted Water Spout vs 252/252+ Dialga: (59.90% - 70.54%)
Unless I'm missing something, Dialga is not taking 2 full-powered Water Spouts from Kyogre.
I meant scarf ogre which is the most common set.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Bulky CM Kyogre is not entirely safe either if Kyurem is carrying Dragon Tail.
Before anyone says anything, don't forget that Sub+Dragon Tail is a very viable set to get around pink blobs, which are otherwise their only true counters.
Before anyone says anything, don't forget that Sub+Dragon Tail is a very viable set to get around pink blobs, which are otherwise their only true counters.
We will see magnezones rising in usage and the Black Kyurem be at the top of OU probably in a week. Only counter to black kyurem is steel types pretty much and magnezone can take care of all of them except heatran so we can always play around that. Heatran does not like taking 165 base attack Outrages over and over again.
I didn't say it was a counter! I said it can take out it's counters and has decent synergy with it!
He mentioned Magnezone because he is able to trap the steels that are able to check/counter Black and White Kyurem... Did you even read his post?
I mainly thought about Magnezone because of the fact that Scizor is #1 in usage and especially if the defenses are lowered they can't take BPs from scizor.
Mm yes, but Magnezone isn't a great way to check Scizor anyway. It dies to Superpower, and it can't be trapped if it just U-turns. Course, if it kills something with Bullet Punch then you're good to go, and scarf Maggy with HP Fire is all good, but there's still the problem of switching in and potentially dying. But eh, the whole 'prediction' thing goes both ways, so that's all kind of moot.
However, what is important is that Magnezone's main (read: only) niche is to trap and kill steel types; but both black and white Kyurem really don't look like they'll be struggling to deal with Steels at all. True, Scizor can revenge them with Bullet Punch (especially if Stealth Rock is down, and B/W Kyurem have lower defenses than the original recipe). However, when you have something like 160 base special attack and stupidly strong STABS, Scizor isn't much of a problem; he just can't switch in. Of course, if Scizor attempts to revenge you, and forces a switch, then he can effectively rack up SR damage, which is a problem.
In fact, I think that Stealth Rock will be one of B/W Kyurem's more major flaws. If you're choiced, then that means you're going to be switching a lot; but if SR is down, that gives you (at most) 5 switch ins, provided you take absolutely NO other form of damage. And, unlike some other SR weak pokes (Dragonite, Volcarona in OU; Ho-Oh, Lugia in Ubers, etc) it does not have access to instant recovery, so that damage is just going to keep racking up. For that reason, you're either going to need to run a spinner alongside B/W Kyurem or Wish support (though a spinner is probs preferable).
Forretress is a poke that comes to mind; resists dragon which B/W Kyurem is weak to, Spins, and helps get those KO's with hazards of it's own.
Golly gosh. Now that I think about it, Magnezone could be very useful for taking out Forry, which would then mean the dragon bros would take SR damage. Maybe it is useful after all.
Starmie is also kind of a nice partner, as it resists fighting and also spins. Come to that, Tentacruel also resists fighting and spins, so the three major spinners of OU have at least some kind of synergy with B/W Kyurem.
Side Note: Is there any abbreviation for B/W Kyurem? That's getting really annoying to type out.
Anyway. If you can't be bothered with a spinner, then Jirachi could be another good team mate. A standard paraflincher set of T-wave or Body Slam/ Iron head/ Wish/ Stealth Rock or Protect could be good for wish support. That'll really take the edge off SR/ damage in general. Jirachi also resists dragon, which is nice.
This Jirachi is also defeated by Magnezone, so I probably should have just shut up about that.
I may have contradicted myself several times in this post. If that's the case (read: It is), feel free to cyber-slap me. Le sigh.
:p
haunter
Banned deucer.
If the 165/170 base attack stats are confirmed then Jirachi, (lol) Registeel and maybe Bronzong and defensive Heatran are going the be the only pokemon that can "hard counter" specs or band Kyurem, and this is assuming that they don't get fire moves to nail the first 3.
The only thing that may keep the new Kyurem in OU is their ice typing, that arguably sucks defensively.
The only thing that may keep the new Kyurem in OU is their ice typing, that arguably sucks defensively.
haunter
Banned deucer.
Dragon type only "fixes" the fire weakness. Rock\fighting\steel weaknesses stay and being stealth rock weak will always hinder Kyurem's potential. The point stands: ice IS the worst defensive typing in the game.
Personally, im interested on how would they play out
Playing BW made me realize that Base Stats =/= broken, tbh i didnt really think a non Truant Slaking would be instant Uber either, but ehh
95 or 90 speed is going to be the first note when im using them though, considering that Dragon wise, only Dragonite is outsped by that base speed and Scizor and Terrakion everywhere
Playing BW made me realize that Base Stats =/= broken, tbh i didnt really think a non Truant Slaking would be instant Uber either, but ehh
95 or 90 speed is going to be the first note when im using them though, considering that Dragon wise, only Dragonite is outsped by that base speed and Scizor and Terrakion everywhere
Looking at the Move Tutor thread, I think it's reasonable to assume that Kyurem will get Superpower, for Black Kyurem at the very least. Dragon/Ice/Fighting/Electric would make it impossibly hard to handle outside of Jirachi or Metagross.
EDIT: Oh, and the Ice Punch tutor makes physical Ice STAB a very real possibility.
EDIT: Oh, and the Ice Punch tutor makes physical Ice STAB a very real possibility.
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