XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)

[CyclicCompound]

It was agreed a while back (around page 20-ish of this thread) that Belly Drum Slurpuff doesn't really deserve an analysis. Sure, it's a fun gimmick, but it's not all that great at getting around a lot of commonly seen walls/tanks/bulky-ish Pokemon, and the fact that Belly Drum + Unburden can only be used once per battle limits it heavily. With the level of team support it requires to get a late-game sweep going, you're basically better off using one of the other late-game sweepers and cleaners in OU that can hold their own against a wider array of threats and can be used at different points of a match.

However, I have never seen CM + Weakness Policy Slurpuff ever used, and it sounds intriguing. However, I do want to bring up an important point. Assuming a spread of 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe (enough to outspeed Scarf Excadrill after Unburden), the following Pokemon can still greatly threaten Slurpuff:
244 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 330-390 (102.4 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 368-434 (114.2 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 272-324 (84.4 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 290-344 (90 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 372-440 (115.5 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Note that these are all rather bulky and resilient Pokemon—taking them down methodologically will require a dedicated team effort, particularly if the opponent realizes that they need to keep one of these Pokemon intact to take down Slurpuff.

Finally, a reliance on Weakness Policy in conjunction with Unburden means that Slurpuff is reliant on Weakness Policy activation not only for its Special Attack boost, but also for its Speed boost. So in the end, there are two things that need to happen for Slurpuff to sweep:

1. Remove its counters (can be difficult, looking at the aforementioned counters).
   
2. Successfully bait or lure a Pokemon with a Steel-type or Poison-type move weak enough to not OHKO or cripple (rather uncommon).

Based on the above, my opinion is that it's not really viable. Again though, haven't used it myself, nor have I seen it in action.

 

[TheManlyLadybug]

I admit the Belly Drum set is rather inconsistent and the CM Weakness Policy doesn't seem to work well in battle, but what about the SubCM Petaya set? It could switch in easily on any Dragon type, proceed to Sub or CM, then Sub until you get a Petaya boost, and from there you have a +2 SpA +1 SpD, +2 Spe Slurpuff ready to destroy.
Obviously it would be weak to priority though. What do you think?

 

[Alter]

As you stated, the sheer abundance of priority pushes such a set from bordering viability to pretty bad - I'd never consider SubCM Petaya Swirlix over the wide array of other, more effective special sweepers available in the OverUsed tier. It doesn't deserve an analysis for now.

 

[Fuzznip]

Mienshao and Slurpuff are not getting analyses. OP should be updated too.

 

[Katakiri]

I'd like to reserve Avalugg. I'm writing-up the skeleton right now and will likely have it done before the night's over but I'd rather be safe than sorry and just reserve it now. I'll have a lengthy exposition on why it deserves an OU analysis included in the piece.

 

[Fuzznip]

I'd like to reserve Avalugg. I'm writing-up the skeleton right now and will likely have it done before the night's over but I'd rather be safe than sorry and just reserve it now. I'll have a lengthy exposition on why it deserves an OU analysis included in the piece.

Please don't write anything before you explain why it deserves an analysis. You're just going to likely waste your time, since Avalugg was rejected a while ago.

Edit: oh guess it's too late

 

[Magnemite]

Espeon is done.

GatoDelFuego darkie

 

[Ash Borer]

Barbaracle is done.

GatoDelFuego

remember your dual screens and late game you'll finish them off ^_^

 

[trc]

Milotic is done.
Gato already knows, so darkie .

 

[Martin]

I'd like to ask about Lanturn. I did a search (added the "search this thread only" modifier) and apparently there is no mention of it. What are your opinions? is it viable?

 

[epikkyogre78]

I'd like to ask about Lanturn. I did a search (added the "search this thread only" modifier) and apparently there is no mention of it. What are your opinions? is it viable?

Lanturn is mostly outclassed by other bulky waters like Rotom-W, Quagsire, or Jellicent. Unless you can identify something really big that lets it stand out from the pack, QC will most likely reject it. Sorry.

 

[epikkyogre78]

Azelf has not gotten any love in 19 days. I feel like QC is purposely avoiding the Azelf analysis. No literally, I post a reply that basically means "bump" and after 3 minutes I see 4-5 guys there so I'm like "good, they'll probably post on there" and I go do other things like Showdown for maybe 10 minutes, then I come back, and nobody is viewing the thread but me, and no one has replied. This isn't an exaggeration-it's exactly what happens, and it's happened multiple times.

 

[Magnemite]

Azelf has not gotten any love in 19 days. I feel like QC is purposely avoiding the Azelf analysis. No literally, I post a reply that basically means "bump" and after 3 minutes I see 4-5 guys there so I'm like "good, they'll probably post on there" and I go do other things like Showdown for maybe 10 minutes, then I come back, and nobody is viewing the thread but me, and no one has replied. This isn't an exaggeration-it's exactly what happens, and it's happened multiple times.

In case you haven't noticed, there are an absolute ton of analyses that need checking right now. The QC team is extremely busy with analyses at the moment. They're not purposefully avoiding you, they're just busy with other analyses. If you want someone to check Azelf right now, just ask a QC member personally by PMing or VMing them. They'll respond to you whenever they're available.

 

[Swamp Link]

Azelf has not gotten any love in 19 days. I feel like QC is purposely avoiding the Azelf analysis. No literally, I post a reply that basically means "bump" and after 3 minutes I see 4-5 guys there so I'm like "good, they'll probably post on there" and I go do other things like Showdown for maybe 10 minutes, then I come back, and nobody is viewing the thread but me, and no one has replied. This isn't an exaggeration-it's exactly what happens, and it's happened multiple times.

Also, bumping the thread does nothing. A QC member is as likely to look at an analysis on the third page as on the first. The fact of the matter is that there are a ton of analyses, and Azelf is not the most important one. 3 weeks isn't even an inordinate amount of time to have to wait for one of these. Just be patient and I assure you the analysis will be dealt with thoroughly.

 

[PISTOLERO]

Hey guys, I was wondering if I could reserve Heliolisk? Ive looked through the pages and I don't think it is reserved - and I think it deserves one :) could someone tell me if I can start it?

 

[Dread Arceus]

Hey guys, I was wondering if I could reserve Heliolisk? Ive looked through the pages and I don't think it is reserved - and I think it deserves one :) could someone tell me if I can start it?

Not QC, but you're gonna want to present a good argument for it. Like how it's not completely outclassed by things like Thundurus-I, Raikou, Mega Manectric...

 

[PISTOLERO]

Not QC, but you're gonna want to present a good argument for it. Like how it's not completely outclassed by things like Thundurus-I, Raikou, Mega Manectric...

Ok fair enough :)

I feel that heliolisk is quite antimeta as a Pokemon (in the words of my friend Ollie, it vomits on the metagame lol) for the following reasons, in no paricular order:

Checks loads of powerful tier members thanks to its typing and ability: azumarill talonflame megq charizard y keldeo aegislash pinsir for example

Unique speed tier above 108 (admittedly below 110)

Works in every weather you like AND out of weather

Movepool is quite shallow but has enough and can be tailored to your weather/things team is weak to etc

Doesnt take mega slot

Not weak to sr

And ill just mention dry skin again cause its awesome

To any qc members, if you want more indepth explanation before giving the goahead I would be happy to expand on anything and everything and makes my case for why heliolisk is viable in OU :)

P.s. mienshao is amazing. Mienshao for life <3

 

[Martin]

Ok fair enough :)

I feel that heliolisk is quite antimeta as a Pokemon (in the words of my friend Ollie, it vomits on the metagame lol) for the following reasons, in no paricular order:

Checks loads of powerful tier members thanks to its typing and ability: azumarill talonflame megq charizard y keldeo aegislash pinsir for example

Unique speed tier above 108 (admittedly below 110)

Works in every weather you like AND out of weather

Movepool is quite shallow but has enough and can be tailored to your weather/things team is weak to etc

Doesnt take mega slot

Not weak to sr

And ill just mention dry skin again cause its awesome

To any qc members, if you want more indepth explanation before giving the goahead I would be happy to expand on anything and everything and makes my case for why heliolisk is viable in OU :)

P.s. mienshao is amazing. Mienshao for life <3

I'm just basing this around its ability roster, but it seems that Heliolisk was DESIGNED to work in weather, with access to rain healing from Dry Skin, sun power boosts with Solar Power, and made easy to miss with Sand Veil, one of which is viable on this guy in weather being Solar Power as, lets face it, it can't abuse the healing like Tentacruel or Toxicroak can and it is rather weak otherwise. If someone insists on using it on non-sun teams, it will be forced to run its other abilities (Dry Skin for rain and weatherless, Sand Veil for Sandstorm). Its movepool of moves which benefit from weather consists of Thunder and... that's it, and outside of it is is just plain outclassed bu Thundy, Manectric, Zapdos and Raikou. However, your point about it liking any weather is false as it hates Hail (if you ignore its general mediocrity)

109 (i checked and it isn't 108) isn't exactly a great speed tier, but way, WAY to fast to function in TR, further compounded by this 'mons frailty (non-existant HP, even more non-existant defense, usable spec. def) and it is in no way a powerhouse (109 Spec. Attack) without a boost from Solar Power and/or Specs meaning that it can't aford to run a Focus Sash set (as much as it would love to) and scarf sets are rather weak. Combine this with its usable offensive movepool consisting of T-Bolt, Thunder, Focus MissBlast, Volt Switch, Grass Knot and Dark Pulse which is a little smaller than "quite shallow" making it very predictable and you can't tailor it to what your team is weak to.

Most pokemon don't take up a mega slot, so that is not justification, and it is to frail to care weather SR is on the field or not as it is going to be wreaked by most attacks which hit it anyway, not helped by its weakness to Mach Punch which leaves it in a bit of a pickle.

That is why Heliolisk is NOT viable. Maybe wait until the UU and RU C&C starts to reserve it

 

[Martin]

On another note from my previous post, Ludicolo hasn't been looked at for a while and is awaiting a 3rd check. Whenever the schedual frees up a little, could QC take a very quick look at it? No rush, just making sure it isn't forgotten about.http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ludicolo-qc-2-3-written-up.3500671/

 

[Minus]

On another note from my previous post, Ludicolo hasn't been looked at for a while and is awaiting a 3rd check. Whenever the schedual frees up a little, could QC take a very quick look at it? No rush, just making sure it isn't forgotten about.

Dude, QC is extremely busy atm and they're more likely to check more important analyses. If you really want to get a check, just contact a QC member by VM/PM and they will be more than happy to help when they can. It has also been established some time ago that this thread should be used solely for reservation purposes, not for anything else. Please refrain from making unnecessary posts like this. It not only annoys QC, but also gives other users like me an alert. I assure you that Ludicolo is not forgotten.

 

[PISTOLERO]

I'm just basing this around its ability roster, but it seems that Heliolisk was DESIGNED to work in weather, with access to rain healing from Dry Skin, sun power boosts with Solar Power, and made easy to miss with Sand Veil, one of which is viable on this guy in weather being Solar Power as, lets face it, it can't abuse the healing like Tentacruel or Toxicroak can and it is rather weak otherwise. If someone insists on using it on non-sun teams, it will be forced to run its other abilities (Dry Skin for rain and weatherless, Sand Veil for Sandstorm). Its movepool of moves which benefit from weather consists of Thunder and... that's it, and outside of it is is just plain outclassed bu Thundy, Manectric, Zapdos and Raikou. However, your point about it liking any weather is false as it hates Hail (if you ignore its general mediocrity)

109 (i checked and it isn't 108) isn't exactly a great speed tier, but way, WAY to fast to function in TR, further compounded by this 'mons frailty (non-existant HP, even more non-existant defense, usable spec. def) and it is in no way a powerhouse (109 Spec. Attack) without a boost from Solar Power and/or Specs meaning that it can't aford to run a Focus Sash set (as much as it would love to) and scarf sets are rather weak. Combine this with its usable offensive movepool consisting of T-Bolt, Thunder, Focus MissBlast, Volt Switch, Grass Knot and Dark Pulse which is a little smaller than "quite shallow" making it very predictable and you can't tailor it to what your team is weak to.

Most pokemon don't take up a mega slot, so that is not justification, and it is to frail to care weather SR is on the field or not as it is going to be wreaked by most attacks which hit it anyway, not helped by its weakness to Mach Punch which leaves it in a bit of a pickle.

That is why Heliolisk is NOT viable. Maybe wait until the UU and RU C&C starts to reserve it

Well I disagree with you almost entirely on pretty much everything you have said in your post. I will go into more detail now because i think that you underrate Heliolisk a hell of a lot.

1. I never said that weather is essential. Dry Skin is actually probably more useful for its Water Immunnity and its passive healing. This allows you to easily revenge kill (or even switch into if you predict correctly) both Choice Band and Belly Drum Azumarill (Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou all take good damage from Aqua Jet and obviously die to +6 or +5 Aqua Jet from the Belly Drum set.

2. Heliolisk can easily cockblock the most used tier member in OU right now which is Rotom-W. It is immunte to Hydro Pump, does not care about Volt Switch in the slightest, Will-O-Wisp is a minor annoyance but not really that big a deal, and Heliolisk can take Tricks from Rotom easily, because it doesn't really care about having Specs/Scarf as it may be running it itself.

3. I don't know what you are talking about with its speed, what i said was it was above 108 but sadly below 110. why the hell would you run it in Trick Room - i don't even need to expand on this, i hope you realise how stupid saying that was. Lots of Pokemon have low/average attacking stats. 1. that's what boosting items are for 2. 109 special attack is good not average. and you seem to have forgotten about this wonderful item called Life Orb...

4. It does have a very usable movepool - it does rely on Hidden Power for coverage but that's never stopped OU tier members before. STAB Electric has always been and still is a very good offensive typing. Surf is great, Grass Knot can be useful, Focus Blast missing has never been a reason to trash a Pokemon using it as a more before. Also, Volt Switch is a very VERY VERY useful move as everybody knows.

5. It's true that it doesn't like Mach Punch, but apart from that it resists or is immune to almost every other priority. Shadow Sneak - immune. Bullet Punch - resists. Priority Flying - resists. Aqua Jet - immune. other priority isn't really seen as much as all these are in OU.

6. the amount of tier members that Heliolisk can check is very nice indeed. For example, it can check Aegislash as it can't be Shadow Sneaked. it can survive Quick Attacks from Pinsir at +2 and murder it with Thunderbolt. it can outspeed many variants of Talonflame (all of them if Heliolisk wears a stylish Scarf) and can take Brave Bird and again Volt Switch/any Electric STAB to murder the bird. It outspeed Mega Charizard Y and again can kill it with an Electric move. it is immune to Aqua Jet (even gets some nice healing from it) so can revenge kill any and all Azumarill. it can kill weakened Rotom. it is faster than Keldeo, immune to Hydro Pump and can again kill it off with any Electric Move of choice. It can threaten Manaphy, Mandibuzz, Skarmory and Togekiss to name but a few.

Manectric cannot switch into Scalds etc from Water-types and takes up a mega slot. Thundurus is also frail, is weak to SR, again cannot switch into Water-types. Raikou - can't switch into Water-types. basically, I'm not saying that Heliolisk is better than any of these, but it does have certain qualities (the Water immunity is the biggest one obviously) that separate it from other electric types.

And i haven't even mentioned Solar Power or Sand Veil. If you have Tyranitar/Hippowdon on your team, you can run either sand veil to be annoying or Dry Skin for the ever-important Water immunity. If you have Mega Charizard Y or Ninetales (lol) on your team, Heliolisk reaches 474 Special Attack before ANY boosting item (Specs, Expert Belt, whatever) when it uses Solar Power.

Hey look, I've managed to write my case for why Heliolisk is viable in OU. Hopefully i can get the go-ahead from a QC member or someone who can confirm that me and my friend should start the reservation :).

 

[epikkyogre78]

Well I disagree with you almost entirely on pretty much everything you have said in your post. I will go into more detail now because i think that you underrate Heliolisk a hell of a lot.

1. I never said that weather is essential. Dry Skin is actually probably more useful for its Water Immunnity and its passive healing. This allows you to easily revenge kill (or even switch into if you predict correctly) both Choice Band and Belly Drum Azumarill (Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou all take good damage from Aqua Jet and obviously die to +6 or +5 Aqua Jet from the Belly Drum set.

2. Heliolisk can easily cockblock the most used tier member in OU right now which is Rotom-W. It is immunte to Hydro Pump, does not care about Volt Switch in the slightest, Will-O-Wisp is a minor annoyance but not really that big a deal, and Heliolisk can take Tricks from Rotom easily, because it doesn't really care about having Specs/Scarf as it may be running it itself.

3. I don't know what you are talking about with its speed, what i said was it was above 108 but sadly below 110. why the hell would you run it in Trick Room - i don't even need to expand on this, i hope you realise how stupid saying that was. Lots of Pokemon have low/average attacking stats. 1. that's what boosting items are for 2. 109 special attack is good not average. and you seem to have forgotten about this wonderful item called Life Orb...

4. It does have a very usable movepool - it does rely on Hidden Power for coverage but that's never stopped OU tier members before. STAB Electric has always been and still is a very good offensive typing. Surf is great, Grass Knot can be useful, Focus Blast missing has never been a reason to trash a Pokemon using it as a more before. Also, Volt Switch is a very VERY VERY useful move as everybody knows.

5. It's true that it doesn't like Mach Punch, but apart from that it resists or is immune to almost every other priority. Shadow Sneak - immune. Bullet Punch - resists. Priority Flying - resists. Aqua Jet - immune. other priority isn't really seen as much as all these are in OU.

6. the amount of tier members that Heliolisk can check is very nice indeed. For example, it can check Aegislash as it can't be Shadow Sneaked. it can survive Quick Attacks from Pinsir at +2 and murder it with Thunderbolt. it can outspeed many variants of Talonflame (all of them if Heliolisk wears a stylish Scarf) and can take Brave Bird and again Volt Switch/any Electric STAB to murder the bird. It outspeed Mega Charizard Y and again can kill it with an Electric move. it is immune to Aqua Jet (even gets some nice healing from it) so can revenge kill any and all Azumarill. it can kill weakened Rotom. it is faster than Keldeo, immune to Hydro Pump and can again kill it off with any Electric Move of choice. It can threaten Manaphy, Mandibuzz, Skarmory and Togekiss to name but a few.

Manectric cannot switch into Scalds etc from Water-types and takes up a mega slot. Thundurus is also frail, is weak to SR, again cannot switch into Water-types. Raikou - can't switch into Water-types. basically, I'm not saying that Heliolisk is better than any of these, but it does have certain qualities (the Water immunity is the biggest one obviously) that separate it from other electric types.

And i haven't even mentioned Solar Power or Sand Veil. If you have Tyranitar/Hippowdon on your team, you can run either sand veil to be annoying or Dry Skin for the ever-important Water immunity. If you have Mega Charizard Y or Ninetales (lol) on your team, Heliolisk reaches 474 Special Attack before ANY boosting item (Specs, Expert Belt, whatever) when it uses Solar Power.

Hey look, I've managed to write my case for why Heliolisk is viable in OU. Hopefully i can get the go-ahead from a QC member or someone who can confirm that me and my friend should start the reservation :).

I 100% agree with you. I'm not QC of course, but if I was, I would give you the reservation for Heliolisk in a heartbeat. Very well explained.

 

[Magnemite]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-xy-uu-stage-0-i-lived.3500312/page-14#post-5315117

As you can see, Hawlucha is now BL, so it needs an OU analysis, no matter how terrible it is (hint: it is very terrible).

Also Heliolisk is awful. It's weak, ridiculously frail, it loses to every special wall in the tier, and it has literally zero reason to be used as it is horribly outclassed by the second best Pokemon in the entire tier, Thundurus. There is absolutely no reason to give it an OU analysis.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Here's a tl;dr explaining why Heliolisk should not get an analysis:

Heliolisk

Heliolisk has already been rejected once in the past, and for good reason. It's just an overall very mediocre Pokemon. Its physical bulk is awful to the point that even resisted hits do a ton of damage (i.e. Talonflame's CB Brave Bird has a small chance to OHKO after only Stealth Rock damage, while SD Talonflame's +2 Brave Bird is an outright OHKO), and its special bulk isn't anything special either. Its power isn't too impressive either; Life Orb Heliolisk hardly has any chance to 2HKO SpD Heatran with a super effective Surf after Stealth Rock, for instance. It also struggles to get by a whole host of special tanks and walls such as the blobs, Mega Venusaur, and Latias, unless it runs a specific Hidden Power type (which is struggles to find room for when it's also trying to run Thunderbolt/Surf/Grass Knot/Focus Blast/Volt Switch).

More than anything, it's just so overshadowed by the amazing Thundurus that there's little reason to use it. Its only real advantages are a lack of a Stealth Rock weakness and a Water immunity or an extra power boost in Sun via Solar Power. The Stealth Rock neutrality isn't even that big of a deal. Stealth Rock is easier to remove than ever thanks to Excadrill and the unblockable Defog, and it's not like Heliolisk enjoys losing 1/8 of its health switching in either (not to mention it's vulnerable to Spikes). Its terrible bulk means it's not surviving many attacks anyway even with the extra health.

Dry Skin is useful and all, but you're really blowing the ability to switch into Water attacks out of proportion since many common users of those moves are really risky switch-ins. For instance, Gyarados is generally going to Sub or DD as you switch in and KO the next turn with Earthquake, Greninja outspeeds and 2HKOs if you switch into anything bar Hydro Pump, Azumarill pulverizes you with Play Rough or Superpower, Cloyster just Shell Smashes on the switch and then eats you alive, and Keldeo wins if you switch in on Secret Sword, Calm Mind, or Expert Belt Icy Wind. Besides switching in easily on Rotom-W and checking BellyJet Azumarill, Thundurus can take on pretty much all the Water-types Heliolisk can even more easily.

Solar Power isn't a huge advantage either. Heliolisk doesn't really offer much to Sun teams synergy wise, and while it's very powerful with a Solar Power boost and Choice Specs, Sun teams already have huge amounts of power with Fire spam from Pokemon like Victini. Sun teams are already hard enough to use since Ninetales sucks and Charizard Y's Sun doesn't last that long (not to mention it's more interested in abusing the Sun itself rather than supporting teammates), so it's not a huge niche even then.

Meanwhile, Thundurus has a lot of significant advantages over Heliolisk. Its extra 2 base Spe points are pretty important since they let it outpace Latios, Latias, Espeon, and Gengar, each of which can outspeed and deal a ton of damage to Heliolisk, if not outright OHKO. Thundurus has almost identical special bulk while also having significantly higher physical bulk, which lets it check things like Talonflame and Mega Pinsir much more easily (for instance, Sharp Beak Talonflame's +2 Brave Bird can't OHKO Thundurus from full health, while its +2 Brave Bird with no boosting item almost always OHKOs Heliolisk). Thundurus also has not only a higher SpA stat, but a higher Atk stat as well, letting it attack effectively from both sides of the offensive spectrum. This adds a whole new dimension to Thundurus that Heliolisk doesn't have, and it gives Thundurus a solid unpredictability factor. While it has a pretty similar special movepool to Heliolisk, Thundurus has the option of running Nasty Plot to muscle its way past bulky Pokemon that might otherwise wall it, while Heliolisk has no good boosting moves whatsoever. Thundurus also has a plenty wide enough physical movepool to make good use of mixed and physical sets, and Defiant makes it a solid Defog deterrent and a terrifying physical sweeper once it gets the boost. Prankster gives Thundurus extra utility on its special sets as well, letting it stop any non-immune sweeper with priority Thunder Wave or stop any status moves with Taunt, regardless of the opponent's speed (mainly looking at Deoxys-S here).

So to sum up, Heliolisk is very frail, not very powerful, has coverage issues, and overall just faces too much competition from Thundurus (and that's still ignoring other offensive Electric-type Pokemon that give it competition). There's a reason it's unranked in the viability thread. It's just too outclassed and decisively mediocre to be a good choice in OU.

Thanks and have a nice day.

 

[Martin]

Well I disagree with you almost entirely on pretty much everything you have said in your post. I will go into more detail now because i think that you underrate Heliolisk a hell of a lot.

1. I never said that weather is essential. Dry Skin is actually probably more useful for its Water Immunnity and its passive healing. This allows you to easily revenge kill (or even switch into if you predict correctly) both Choice Band and Belly Drum Azumarill (Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou all take good damage from Aqua Jet and obviously die to +6 or +5 Aqua Jet from the Belly Drum set.

2. Heliolisk can easily cockblock the most used tier member in OU right now which is Rotom-W. It is immunte to Hydro Pump, does not care about Volt Switch in the slightest, Will-O-Wisp is a minor annoyance but not really that big a deal, and Heliolisk can take Tricks from Rotom easily, because it doesn't really care about having Specs/Scarf as it may be running it itself.

3. I don't know what you are talking about with its speed, what i said was it was above 108 but sadly below 110. why the hell would you run it in Trick Room - i don't even need to expand on this, i hope you realise how stupid saying that was. Lots of Pokemon have low/average attacking stats. 1. that's what boosting items are for 2. 109 special attack is good not average. and you seem to have forgotten about this wonderful item called Life Orb...

4. It does have a very usable movepool - it does rely on Hidden Power for coverage but that's never stopped OU tier members before. STAB Electric has always been and still is a very good offensive typing. Surf is great, Grass Knot can be useful, Focus Blast missing has never been a reason to trash a Pokemon using it as a more before. Also, Volt Switch is a very VERY VERY useful move as everybody knows.

5. It's true that it doesn't like Mach Punch, but apart from that it resists or is immune to almost every other priority. Shadow Sneak - immune. Bullet Punch - resists. Priority Flying - resists. Aqua Jet - immune. other priority isn't really seen as much as all these are in OU.

6. the amount of tier members that Heliolisk can check is very nice indeed. For example, it can check Aegislash as it can't be Shadow Sneaked. it can survive Quick Attacks from Pinsir at +2 and murder it with Thunderbolt. it can outspeed many variants of Talonflame (all of them if Heliolisk wears a stylish Scarf) and can take Brave Bird and again Volt Switch/any Electric STAB to murder the bird. It outspeed Mega Charizard Y and again can kill it with an Electric move. it is immune to Aqua Jet (even gets some nice healing from it) so can revenge kill any and all Azumarill. it can kill weakened Rotom. it is faster than Keldeo, immune to Hydro Pump and can again kill it off with any Electric Move of choice. It can threaten Manaphy, Mandibuzz, Skarmory and Togekiss to name but a few.

Manectric cannot switch into Scalds etc from Water-types and takes up a mega slot. Thundurus is also frail, is weak to SR, again cannot switch into Water-types. Raikou - can't switch into Water-types. basically, I'm not saying that Heliolisk is better than any of these, but it does have certain qualities (the Water immunity is the biggest one obviously) that separate it from other electric types.

And i haven't even mentioned Solar Power or Sand Veil. If you have Tyranitar/Hippowdon on your team, you can run either sand veil to be annoying or Dry Skin for the ever-important Water immunity. If you have Mega Charizard Y or Ninetales (lol) on your team, Heliolisk reaches 474 Special Attack before ANY boosting item (Specs, Expert Belt, whatever) when it uses Solar Power.

Hey look, I've managed to write my case for why Heliolisk is viable in OU. Hopefully i can get the go-ahead from a QC member or someone who can confirm that me and my friend should start the reservation :).

just about my TR point, I said that it is below to 110 benchmark, but way too fast for it. sorry if i caused confusion there