Heatran is not weak to SR...With Abomasnow you need to have someone to take 4x fire moves probably a flash fire user right? Oh wait now you have 2 mons who are weak to Stealth Rock so now you need a defogger or spinner.
Heatran is not weak to SR...With Abomasnow you need to have someone to take 4x fire moves probably a flash fire user right? Oh wait now you have 2 mons who are weak to Stealth Rock so now you need a defogger or spinner.
Fire types aren't the only things that resist Fire, right? Latias, Slowbro, Jellicent, Garchomp, Keldeo, Gastrodon, etc. also, Heatran is a thing.With Abomasnow you need to have someone to take 4x fire moves probably a flash fire user right? Oh wait now you have 2 mons who are weak to Stealth Rock so now you need a defogger or spinner.
You realize Elektross was NU last gen, right? Abomasnow is so much better than Elektross it isn't funny, ie Blizzard, STaB Giga Drain, more than one resistance.Abomasnow also gets outclassed by especially by the underrated eelektross who has better typing (no weaknesses with its ability) and doesn't require a lot of support, has a great mixed movepool and when life orbed has about slightly greater attack and special attack to abomasnow with a slight decrease in bulk.
Eelektross is a very anti-meta mon IMO but I'm getting off track and I'm not gonna defend eelektross when I'm this sleepy. Abomasnow hits hard and can cover itself well with 3 moves and priority but lacks the power and speed to make it a sweeper and requires a lot of prediction by the user to avoid giga draining a talon flame or blizzarding a rotom-W. IMO the value of potentially wall breaking a ferrothorn or a blissey or a mega venasaur is outweighed by the potential for abomasnow to not do anything useful for a team which can happen if it is surprised by fire type move And it feels like complete deadweight when facing hyper offensive teams because of its weaknesses.You realize Elektross was NU last gen, right? Abomasnow is so much better than Elektross it isn't funny, ie Blizzard, STaB Giga Drain, more than one resistance.
Not sure how losing it's best STAB is helping but...S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
I vote Tornadus-T for S rank:
So ive played around a lot lately with Tornadus-T and I have to say it just as good as the in 5th gen due to losing it's main spam move in Hurricane. Now that we are in a new generation stuff changes and I have to say Torn-T have amazing coverage speed and power, and it's by no means frail either. It 2hko's nearly everything in the metagame on the switct-in bar really bulky pokemon like Mandibuzz, Latias, Chansey, Jellicent and Deoxys-D. While looking at these pokemon they are mainly walls and underused in this meta and are also easy to take switch advantage of, which comes under the "free" turns. But it can also run Knock Off to deter a switch-in or Tailwind to help your team with a sweep. And as I said Torn-T is not frail at all where as nearly no priority kills it, not even Ice Shard from Adamant Mamoswine with Life Orb kills Timid Torn-T but has a pitiful 6.3% chance to ko with hasty ! This means that when Torn-T is in even if you know it's set you make the wrong move you lose a mon or get heavely dented, which also gives you the momentum in the game, which is huge. And not only that, it sports an amazing ability for it's typing in Regenerator which makes Stealth Rock and Life Orb almost not even bother it. So my conclusion is, Tornadus-T is a great wallbreaker, late game cleaner and momentum creater, while also sporting longivity, which in my opinion and my experiences with it this gen is good enough for S-tier.
Im not even gonna bother saying that they dont have analysis. Exploud isnt ou viable. 104/64/74 bulk isnt impressive and it still is very weak. Also saying that you can baton pass boosts to it isnt an argument. People baton pass +6 to magikarps and sweep, doesnt make it viable.Considering the state of the ladder, plenty of people are frustrated with running those mons and proceeded to run pure garbage for the sake of it and see how far they can get. Entrainment Durant, Baton pass to a Castform or Delcatty, Delibird-based teams, all kind of shit is around now by good players using alts just for the sake of it. I am one of those people myself, and played plenty of games in Pokébank OU and just a few in current OU, only using a team with Ledian on it and other things residing not in OU.
Screw Genesect, bury MegaLuke under twenty feet of soil and blast everything else that is OU. Frustration galore!
The fact that too many broken things were just released like that caused people to run around with shitty gimmicks and joke teams, I encountered quite a few of those in the past few days.
As such, I can't really say much about the viability of current OU or Gen V OU mons (bar that I despise using them because they aren't fun on the ladder), but can really say that so many previous NU mons are extremely underestimated in how much they can check and counter and otherwise screw over, even though they are likely going to end up in NU again this generation, I see them all having their niches in OU (D rank / C- rank, mostly)
Eelektross is underestimated in every tier it resides in, and will need dedicated support to function in higher tiers. Eelektross has ridiculous coverage and can wreck basically everything if given a boost. Needs Baton Pass support because it can't boost itself on the special side, whereas physical sets need Heal Bell support, but it can muscle through Blissey without SE hits or boosting even if only running Special attacks thanks to Acid Spray, which is ridiculous. It can also run Superpower on a mixed set which also nukes Blissey.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing that can counter Eelektross more than once. Excadrill can switch into Flamethrower once but certainly not twice, and other Earthquake users can't even hit it for SE damage at all.
Eelektross has a defensive Coil set, an Acid Spray set, a defensive set with Roar and Toxic and T-Wave, a Choiced pivot set with U-Turn and/or Volt Switch. There are only very few offensive moves it doesn't have but also misses some moves that could be useful.
However, as I said, it has its flaws like its low speed as well as Excadrill and various others, and as such needs a LOT of support. I suggest it to be put in D-rank.
Now, I'll bring in some suggestions of my own. D-rank is so empty but so many mons have their uses to be put in there. I suggest Exploud, Golem and Mismagius for D-rank
Exploud: STAB Boomburst, all you need. It is also a solid check to Garchomp and many other mons, being bulky enough to tank a hit and deal solid damage back.
But it isn't without (a whole host) of flaws, like being relatively frail if it comes to taking boosted attacks or SE attacks, it is pretty slow, and only 91 Base SpA makes sure its coverage moves won't do much damage without a boost (and Exploud has no boosting moves at all), making Boomburst somewhat predictable and abuseable. Baton Pass support is very helpful for Exploud, whatever it may be, a Quiver Dance or a Shell Smash, and it's going to wreck house on the spot. Exploud's Boomburst can hit Ghosts thanks to Scrappy, which is great, though; specially defensive Ghosts are absolutely uncapable of switching into Exploud without being in grave danger.
Golem: Checking half the metagame as long as Sturdy is active (and a significant number even without Sturdy) and countering Talonflame cannot be underestimated. It has enough attack to hurt a lot (Earthquake, Rock Blast, Sucker Punch, Fire Punch/Explosion/Stealth Rock), and it won't invest in Speed but will in HP, allowing it to take significant punishment on the physical side. Just don't let it get hit by Grass/Water attacks.
It needs support though, it does not want its Sturdy to be broken by hazards especially if running Lum Berry instead of Leftovers. Wish support is also great. But Golem has very serious flaws of which you need to be aware, but if used correctly it is still a powerful asset.
Mismagius: Gengar, just slightly worse stats. It lacks the advantages and also the disadvantages of the Poison-typing, has Power Gem instead of Focus Blast (if you need a fast ghost that isn't set-up fodder for Volcarona/ZardY), and is somewhat less frail on the Special side, but has to pay with slightly less Special attack and Speed.
But it can do anything Gengar does otherwise. Also, unlike Gengar, Mismagius beats Landorus if it attempts to check while SR is in play, so there's that as well (a Spooky Plate or Life Orb on Missy is recommended though).
A slightly different variant of Gengar, usually outclassed by it (as Gengar and Mismagius have the same flaws but Mismagius is slightly slower and weaker), but still having its own minor niche.
It gets perfect coverage with EQ/Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Pin Missle anyway and the only thing that it would really want would be sub. so no if it had 5 moveslots it would be affected the same as any other pokemon that got 5 moveslots. (Hint Hint skyrocket in tiers/viability ranking)Poor MHeracross. Even with five moveslots it wouldn't be able to compete.
*sweats nervously* (U-Turn is mandatory on it.)Cincinno is not OU-viable and if anyone is crazy enough to use it, they are going to use U-Turn in that fourth slot.
That is a bad comparison and you know it. Passing three Shell Smashes is something different than passing a single Speed Boost, Cosmic Power or god forbid Quiver Dance, which is all Exploud really needs, and even if it doesn't get the speed boost it is still a bulky pivot with an incredibly powerful Boomburst to boot, and it has the moves it needs to hit its two resists for SE damage.Im not even gonna bother saying that they dont have analysis. Exploud isnt ou viable. 104/64/74 bulk isnt impressive and it still is very weak. Also saying that you can baton pass boosts to it isnt an argument. People baton pass +6 to magikarps and sweep, doesnt make it viable.
Ground-type means you can't really compare it with T-Tar since it doesn't die to three U-Turns from Talonflame lol. Rhyperior is a better comparison but lacks Sturdy as well as Sucker Punch. Skarmory is Taunt-bait itself whereas Golem is not and has an entirely different typing to boot. A better typing in many cases? Yes, certainly. But I wouldn't dare to compare them.Golem doesnt check most of the metagame, its pitiful SpDef means it is 2hko'd or ohko'd by nearly all special attackers and its horrible typing makes it weak to very comon types. "Just don't let it get hit by Grass/Water attacks." or ice or steel or fighting or ground or any special attacks or even too many physical attacks as it has no recovery. Golem has no niche at all and is completely outclassed, by skarmory/lando-t/ttar.
Mismagius is pretty frail if it comes to safely setting up Nasty Plot, and prefers straight up attacking or burning the T-Tar switch-in. Besides, it isn't that much weaker than Gengar. Besides, it looks worse on paper than it actually is. It beats many random mons even without boosts. Landorus, Volcarona, CharizardY, Rotom-W."Gengar, just slightly worse stats." doesnt this mean it is outclassed. Power gem shouldnt be used. You're not even mentioning mismagius's only niche, nasty plot, even then it is too weak and slow to abuse, it is too easily revenge killed. Your argument for mismagius is 'its gengar, but worse'
True about the Coil set. Eelektross can run it, but it is outclassed and I am not going to deny that. Eelektross does however have an entirely different typing as well as more variety and the coil set does have entirely different counters - Zygarde won't lure in that Blissey for example while Eelektross will. And Baton Pass support, I mean that only a single CM is enough.Electrossis outclassed as well (not as badly). The coil set is outclassed by zygarde who has bulk and speed to abuse it. "Needs Baton Pass support", again, if its 'niche' is to be able to sweep only with baton pass, it hasnt got a niche. Yes, it has a good move pool but thundurus(-t) hits harder and faster and can boost as well as having similar coverage.
Actually, Exploud does have an analysis. You can find it here:Im not even gonna bother saying that they dont have analysis.
I don't think anything with 70% accuracy on its main stab could ever be s-rank. He is a very good mon tho, a solid A rank. I prefer the assault vest set to the pure offensive sets because his ability to pivot with regenerator is really nice. Also a solid mega Luc check with heat wave (altho heat wave falls just short of the OHKO, you need a lil prior damage).S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
I vote Tornadus-T for S rank:
So ive played around a lot lately with Tornadus-T and I have to say it just as good as the in 5th gen due to losing it's main spam move in Hurricane. Now that we are in a new generation stuff changes and I have to say Torn-T have amazing coverage speed and power, and it's by no means frail either. It 2hko's nearly everything in the metagame on the switct-in bar really bulky pokemon like Mandibuzz, Latias, Chansey, Jellicent and Deoxys-D. While looking at these pokemon they are mainly walls and underused in this meta and are also easy to take switch advantage of, which comes under the "free" turns. But it can also run Knock Off to deter a switch-in or Tailwind to help your team with a sweep. And as I said Torn-T is not frail at all where as nearly no priority kills it, not even Ice Shard from Adamant Mamoswine with Life Orb kills Timid Torn-T but has a pitiful 6.3% chance to ko with hasty ! This means that when Torn-T is in even if you know it's set you make the wrong move you lose a mon or get heavely dented, which also gives you the momentum in the game, which is huge. And not only that, it sports an amazing ability for it's typing in Regenerator which makes Stealth Rock and Life Orb almost not even bother it. So my conclusion is, Tornadus-T is a great wallbreaker, late game cleaner and momentum creater, while also sporting longivity, which in my opinion and my experiences with it this gen is good enough for S-tier.
Exploud does have viability in a OU trick room team with very poor speed and decent bulk with 102 hp and the ability to spam boomburst with no real counters because of the sheer power of Boomburst + Scrappy (it actually hits harder with boomburst being 2x resisted than any neutral base 90 move from Exploud). It is a very, very small niche in OU and requires multiple supports (I.E. a trick room team) but this use of Exploud outclasses Porygon-Z. So it does have a very small niche above Porygon-Z so it should at least be mentioned as C- IMO.Analysis or no, I really don't think there is an excuse for using Exploud in OU. Yes, it has a 140 base power STAB move. 140 is a big number, I know. But when you look at it, you'll realise that Exploud's Boomburst is pretty much exactly as powerful as adaptability Porygon-Z's tri-attack, a move that doesn't just lack drawbacks, but has substantial positive effects. And we've known that Porygon-Z, which is almost as bulky, more powerful, and much faster, isn't a good Pokemon in OU since gen 4..
Yeah you could literally say this could work in a Trick Room team therefore viable in OU thereofore, C rank for a lot of mons that are cleary not OU viable any other way so D rank is kinda worthless...I don't think we should be nominating anything for D-rank at all. There are plenty of Pokemon who have a niche that allows you to get away with using them in OU, even if they do have their issues.
I never said you didn't take it into account, I just said you didn't mention it....what makes you think I didn't take that into account. That's the only way I ever use Mega Abomasnow...
And I'm not a fan of Rest Talk Mega Aggron. I think it has better things to be doing. That's just my opinion though.
You're missing something here, you see, Mega Aggron isn't necessarily a wall, but a tank. In fact, it's pretty much the physical Goodra, who is also a B+. Mega Aggron pretty much outclasses Goodra, but it take up the Mega slot.
Honestly I've seen it on Tentacruel before even the buff, Landorus-T was rarely seen using it, but I still saw a good amount of players use it, the Dual Screen Reuniclus, I have sometimes seen Knock off on him, Deoxys-D commonly carries Knock off tbh, as I have seen it way too many times.Cincinno is not OU-viable and if anyone is crazy enough to use it, they are going to use U-Turn in that fourth slot.
Tentacruel, Landorus-T, Mamoswine, non-AV Azumarill, Clefable, Banette, Reuniclus, and Deoxys do not have the moveslots to use it either.
Toxicroak and Mega Mawile prefer Sucker Punch. Heracross and Mega Pinsir never run Dark-type coverage. Ambipom is not OU-viable, Blaziken is Uber. Mega Absol really, really wants Sucker Punch as well.
They could potentially have some reason to use Knock Off, but most of the time they are not seen using it, and the users of Knock Off are not nearly widespread enough to cause Poryon2 that much grief that its role is very compromised.
Also I think you missed Gliscor, which I've actually seen more Knock Off variants of than Deoxys-S.
What does this tell you about the OU ladder people?Honestly I've seen it on Tentacruel before even the buff, Landorus-T was rarely seen using it, but I still saw a good amount of players use it, the Dual Screen Reuniclus, I have sometimes seen Knock off on him, Deoxys-D commonly carries Knock off tbh, as I have seen it way too many times.
Toxicraok and Mega Mawile do prefer Sucker Punch yes, Pinsir doesn't need dark move yes, but I have to disagree about Knock off on Heracross, as I have seen it, used it, and worked greatly, as when I run ScarfMoxie, I find myself better to be locked in Knock Off instead of EQ or Stone Edge, especially when I'm fighting Aegislash or Chandelure. For Mega Absol, ALL the mega absols I have seen carry both Knock Off and Sucker Punch, as relying on Sucker Punch (Yes even with Magic Bounce, he can just set up) is not as reliable, especially when the opponent is smart enough to PP stall it. Ambipom may not be OU viable, but I still have seen it on him, and have seen him in OU more than one time.
Lol I thought I mentioned Gliscor, in fact I myself use Knock off on Gliscor on PS and in-game.
Let's calc:Aasgier, you do realize the Gengar and Mismagius comparison is remarkably similiar to the Sylveon and Florges matchup, right? One far outclasses the other in base stats alone, and has much more options in terms of movepool. Florges was taken out of the rankings altogether as a result of being totally outclassed, so why include Mismagius in D-Rank at all? Power Gem won't even OHKO the bulkier 4x Rock weak Fire-types (Volcarona and YZard), and Gengar has Thunderbolt for the latter anyway.
Still a lot of damage, Volca does not appreciate and now it absolutely lacks SpA investment because it is focused on HP and Speed, even at +1 it cannot OHKO Mismagius (unlike Gengar who would be complete set-up bait). Another Power Gem will easily KO.252 SpA Mismagius Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 292-344 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mismagius Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 292-344 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And that is without the boosting item that Mismagius requires if you do not run Nasty Plot.252 SpA Mismagius Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Y: 272-320 (91.2 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Even with a Specs it is likely fail to OHKO.252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Y: 176-208 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
But as I said, I am vouching for D-rank, not any higher for obvious reasons ^^ .252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 260-308 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Since I often (Weekly I believe) create new account to try out new pokemons, Knock off is extremely common in the lower ladders, I have seen Knock off on Alakazam (Not kidding), but as I go +2000, Knock off does get rarer, but it is still quite common, as really, Tentacruel DOES use it, for the sake of removing the item and not the damage, and so does Deoxys-D.What does this tell you about the OU ladder people?
So far the only mons I've seen run Knock Off are Gliscor and Tangrowth. It's not common to the point of making Porygon2 unviable.
Heracross has too many other moves to be running to run Knock Off really. Against Aegislash I'd rather be locked into Earthquake so I don't get a King's Shield in my face. Mega Absol just died to quickly to my Talonflame I guess.
Porygon2 is still viable in today's metagame, and I would still give him a B/B- Ranking because of his defensive capabilities.