Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Ropeburn]

It's also worth noting that Kabutops is really tough to kill via priority. That 115 defense it nice.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 113-133 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 172-204 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 156-184 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm running some calcs of Kabutops in the rain, and holy crap. This thing gets a pseudo-SD on all its water moves in the rain. I definitely second Kabutops for C rank.

 

[RotomPoison]

It's also worth noting that Kabutops is really tough to kill via priority. That 115 defense it nice.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 113-133 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 115-136 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 156-184 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm running some calcs of Kabutops in the rain, and holy crap. This thing gets a pseudo-SD on all its water moves in the rain. I definitely second Kabutops for C rank.

Rain is 1.5 not 2. But still, Kabutops is great, it's an excellent late game sweeper if it gets the chance to switch in, it doesn't even need to set up all the time.

 

[Ropeburn]

Rain is 1.5 not 2. But still, Kabutops is great, it's an excellent late game sweeper if it gets the chance to switch in, it doesn't even need to set up all the time.

I know. That's why I said pseudo-SD.

 

[LoDart210]

I know. That's why I said pseudo-SD.

Well more like a pseudo howl but yeah

 

[Senile]

It's also worth noting that Kabutops is really tough to kill via priority. That 115 defense it nice.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 113-133 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 115-136 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 156-184 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm running some calcs of Kabutops in the rain, and holy crap. This thing gets a pseudo-SD on all its water moves in the rain. I definitely second Kabutops for C rank.

Azumarill calc should be done in rain. Here's the real calc:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 172-204 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not that big of a deal, but when accounting for Life Orb recoil and potential rocks, that extra 20ish% makes a big deal as to if Kabutops can actually sweep or not.

Also, just for kicks:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 198-234 (75.5 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Ropeburn]

Well more like a pseudo howl but yeah

I didn't realize Howl doubled your speed now.

Azumarill calc should be done in rain. Here's the real calc:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 172-204 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not that big of a deal, but when accounting for Life Orb recoil and potential rocks, that extra 20ish% makes a big deal as to if Kabutops can actually sweep or not.

Also, just for kicks:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 198-234 (75.5 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thanks. I'll edit my original post.

 

[LoDart210]

I didn't realize Howl doubled your speed now.

By SD did you not mean swords dance? I was being obnoxious really, not nitpicky.

 

[Ropeburn]

By SD did you not mean swords dance? I was being obnoxious really, not nitpicky.

Since SD is a more relevant move than howl, I said pseudo-SD. Sorry, I didn't realize you were a big fan of howl. I can go back and say Meditate instead. Maybe I can say Choice Band with no restrictions, or 0 damage Power up Punch. What about Sharpen? How does Dragon Dance fit into all this?

 

[Senile]

Since SD is a more relevant move than howl, I said pseudo-SD. Sorry, I didn't realize you were a big fan of howl. I can go back and say Meditate instead. Maybe I can say Choice Band with no restrictions, or 0 damage Power up Punch. What about Sharpen? How does Dragon Dance fit into all this?

...How about we just say Shift Gear?

 

[Hidious]

It doubles your speed and raises your water attacks a stage. That is a psuedo shift gear.

 

[Ropeburn]

Good call guys.

 

[ensurdagen]

It's also worth noting that Kabutops is really tough to kill via priority. That 115 defense it nice.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 113-133 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops in Rain: 172-204 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 156-184 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm running some calcs of Kabutops in the rain, and holy crap. This thing gets a pseudo-SD on all its water moves in the rain. I definitely second Kabutops for C rank.

It still gets 2hkoed by priority moves it resists, I wouldn't call that tough to kill with priority... I'd call that easy to revenge.

 

[Salemance]

It still gets 2hkoed by priority moves it resists, I wouldn't call that tough to kill with priority... I'd call that easy to revenge.

I see a very small.....small.....small chance to 2HKO. Which one are you reading?

 

[Senile]

It still gets 2hkoed by priority moves it resists, I wouldn't call that tough to kill with priority... I'd call that easy to revenge.

The only one it resists is Talonflame's BB, and that isn't even relevant because
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Talonflame in Rain: 346-408 (111.9 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[The Legend Waker]

Since the S Ranked Pokes are obviously OP in almost every way, should I just use then instead of all the other ones?

 

[November Blue]

Since the S Ranked Pokes are obviously OP in almost every way, should I just use then instead of all the other ones?

What? No.

Every Pokemon plays differently, and every player has a different style. You should use the mons that you have the most fun with, and suit your playstyle best. If you're a hyper offense kinda guy, you won't get much out of Mega Venusaur, for example.

 

[The Legend Waker]

What? No.

Every Pokemon plays differently, and every player has a different style. You should use the mons that you have the most fun with, and suit your playstyle best. If you're a hyper offense kinda guy, you won't get much out of Mega Venusaur, for example.

Well that's a relief because I <i>am</i> a hyper offense kinda guy! ^^ Setting up is not always necessary in my book.

 

[RufflesPro]

Nominating Chandelure B-
Chandelure DID get an analysis b4 anyone tries to troll me here.

Alright, Ghost- types in general got a lot of stuff in this gen, they are un-trappable, they get past Steel- Type, they are only resisted by 1 type (Dark) and only 1 type is immune to it (Normal), furthermore it has two immunities (Fighting & Normal).

Chandelure is resistant to 7 types and weak to 4 types, but immune to 2 types. STAB Ghost in gen VI is as good as STAB Dragon in Gen V; probably the most powerful STAB.

Furthermore Chandelure has base enormous 145 base SpA and mediocre 80 speed that is enough to wallbreak. With average bulk of 60/90/90.
Chandelure is also very versatile, can run HP Ground & Fighting, can run SubSplit, can run Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, and WoW support.
Chandelure has amazing movepool too, Fire blast, Shadow Ball, Overheat, Energy Ball, Heat Wave, etc.
With Choice Specs it is just overkilling the whole metagame.

Flash Fire just helps your teammates getting through Fire Weakness, while Infiltrator lets you pass Subs & Screens just to make this guy an even better sweeper/wall breaker.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-291 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 204-241 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With Choice Scarf & Timid nature it is outspeeding the whole non-scarf 252+ 144 base speed metagame.
With LO it is not getting locked & can still do a lot.
SubCM or SubSplit is also amazing as chandelure forces many switches and thus making substitute easy to set up. They also add to his versatile. Not to mention Fire + Ghost combo is very very good (Gets the likes of Heatran too this gen).
It also gets Momento and Trick, two moves that support the team immensely. Trick is amazing with choice items.

It has downsides tho, being Pursuit & Sucker Punch weak, being weak to 2 priorities (Aqua Jet & Shadow Sneak) even though resisting 1 priority (Bullet Punch) and being immune to 2 (Vacuum wave & Mach Punch), it also vulnerable to all kinds of hazards (A balloon can be given to avoid Spikes & Sticky Web though).

 

[Salemance]

Nominating Chandelure B-
Chandelure DID get an analysis b4 anyone tries to troll me here.

Alright, Ghost- types in general got a lot of stuff in this gen, they are un-trappable, they get past Steel- Type, they are only resisted by 1 type (Dark) and only 1 type is immune to it (Normal), furthermore it has two immunities (Fighting & Normal).

Chandelure is resistant to 7 types and weak to 4 types, but immune to 2 types. STAB Ghost in gen VI is as good as STAB Dragon in Gen V; probably the most powerful STAB.

Furthermore Chandelure has base enormous 145 base SpA and mediocre 80 speed that is enough to wallbreak. With average bulk of 60/90/90.
Chandelure is also very versatile, can run HP Ground & Fighting, can run SubSplit, can run Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, and WoW support.
Chandelure has amazing movepool too, Fire blast, Shadow Ball, Overheat, Energy Ball, Heat Wave, etc.
With Choice Specs it is just overkilling the whole metagame.

Flash Fire just helps your teammates getting through Fire Weakness, while Infiltrator lets you pass Subs & Screens just to make this guy an even better sweeper/wall breaker.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-291 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 204-241 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With Choice Scarf & Timid nature it is outspeeding the whole non-scarf 252+ 144 base speed metagame.
With LO it is not getting locked & can still do a lot.
SubCM or SubSplit is also amazing as chandelure forces many switches and thus making substitute easy to set up. They also add to his versatile. Not to mention Fire + Ghost combo is very very good (Gets the likes of Heatran too this gen).
It also gets Momento and Trick, two moves that support the team immensely. Trick is amazing with choice items.

It has downsides tho, being Pursuit & Sucker Punch weak, being weak to 2 priorities (Aqua Jet & Shadow Sneak) even though resisting 1 priority (Bullet Punch) and being immune to 2 (Vacuum wave & Mach Punch), it also vulnerable to all kinds of hazards (A balloon can be given to avoid Spikes & Sticky Web though).

I doubt we would try to troll you hear as I THINK we discussed Chande as well........ either or, the ability to also forgo Flash Fire for Infiltrator is a damn good one so B- rank is easy, id say B though.

 

[Sandoori]

Could've sworn I posted my thoughts on Chandelure before but I can't find the post again, so I'll keep it short: with the rise of use in dark/ghost moves and heavy usage of fast hard-hitting 'mons such as Talonflame and M-Pinsir, as well as the prevalence of water types such as Azumarill, Rotom-W, and Manaphy, it seems too risky to opt for anything but a scarf build, and if it runs scarf over specs it starts missing out on KOs. It hits a lot of the same 'mons that threaten it super effectively and still demolishes anything that takes neutral damage, but I can't see its speed letting it past C+.

 

[LoDart210]

Nominating Chandelure B-
Chandelure DID get an analysis b4 anyone tries to troll me here.

Alright, Ghost- types in general got a lot of stuff in this gen, they are un-trappable, they get past Steel- Type, they are only resisted by 1 type (Dark) and only 1 type is immune to it (Normal), furthermore it has two immunities (Fighting & Normal).

Chandelure is resistant to 7 types and weak to 4 types, but immune to 2 types. STAB Ghost in gen VI is as good as STAB Dragon in Gen V; probably the most powerful STAB.

Furthermore Chandelure has base enormous 145 base SpA and mediocre 80 speed that is enough to wallbreak. With average bulk of 60/90/90.
Chandelure is also very versatile, can run HP Ground & Fighting, can run SubSplit, can run Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, and WoW support.
Chandelure has amazing movepool too, Fire blast, Shadow Ball, Overheat, Energy Ball, Heat Wave, etc.
With Choice Specs it is just overkilling the whole metagame.

Flash Fire just helps your teammates getting through Fire Weakness, while Infiltrator lets you pass Subs & Screens just to make this guy an even better sweeper/wall breaker.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-291 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 204-241 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With Choice Scarf & Timid nature it is outspeeding the whole non-scarf 252+ 144 base speed metagame.
With LO it is not getting locked & can still do a lot.
SubCM or SubSplit is also amazing as chandelure forces many switches and thus making substitute easy to set up. They also add to his versatile. Not to mention Fire + Ghost combo is very very good (Gets the likes of Heatran too this gen).
It also gets Momento and Trick, two moves that support the team immensely. Trick is amazing with choice items.

It has downsides tho, being Pursuit & Sucker Punch weak, being weak to 2 priorities (Aqua Jet & Shadow Sneak) even though resisting 1 priority (Bullet Punch) and being immune to 2 (Vacuum wave & Mach Punch), it also vulnerable to all kinds of hazards (A balloon can be given to avoid Spikes & Sticky Web though).

The choice scarf set has been amazing for me so far, and I rarely find myself having to worry about not landing a KO.

Also it's bulk is surprisingly competent. He often lived a neutral hit or two and usually lives a super effective hit, allowing him to net a lot of 2KO's

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Chandelure has trouble getting past Tyranitar and Heatran sadly. You're much better off running either Aegislash or Gengar if you need a Ghost-type. If you're going to discuss it I'd only consider the Scarf and the SubSplit set: everything else is pretty much outclassed. Maybe LO with four attacks, but average speed is a letdown.

 

[Ajwf]

How hard would it be for Chandy to take HP Fight (last gen's common ghost HP) or HP ground to muscle past those two? Remember, Heatran really can't do much back to chandy. HP Fighting hits both SE and would probably drop TTar in two hits due to Chandy's massive SpA stat. I could see chandy working well as a trick scarfer/Sub attacker this gen. It is a good check to non-mixed Char-Y.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

How hard would it be for Chandy to take HP Fight (last gen's common ghost HP) or HP ground to muscle past those two? Remember, Heatran really can't do much back to chandy. HP Fighting hits both SE and would probably drop TTar in two hits due to Chandy's massive SpA stat. I could see chandy working well as a trick scarfer/Sub attacker this gen. It is a good check to non-mixed Char-Y.

The problem with that is that on Choice sets it's inconvenient to use a 60 base power move for one specific threat. It doesn't even OHKO either, and after the first hit the surprise factor is gone. On SubSplit there's flatout no room. Also, Heatran can Toxic/Protect stall you all day, Earth Power you, sometimes it runs Ancientpower/Stone Edge etc.

 

[skies]

How hard would it be for Chandy to take HP Fight (last gen's common ghost HP) or HP ground to muscle past those two? Remember, Heatran really can't do much back to chandy. HP Fighting hits both SE and would probably drop TTar in two hits due to Chandy's massive SpA stat. I could see chandy working well as a trick scarfer/Sub attacker this gen. It is a good check to non-mixed Char-Y.

4 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 178-210 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 160-190 (41.4 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Heatran will win unless it runs Ground/