XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Porce]

The problem with Bouffalant is its sustain. The recoil damage leaves it more vulnerable to Revenge killing and to counterattack from Pokemon who can survive Head Charge. Doesn't really help that it's pretty slow.

Seismitoad is kind of like a Gastrodon with more versatility and access to Stealth Rocks. He can go down a defensive route and tank a surprising amount of hits (no sustain though) or go with a Rain Dance set and Swift Swim sweep. The problem is that Seismitoad is jack of all trades, master of none. He can do them all sufficiently, but not reliably. This versatility in role packed with a decently high speed for a Defensive Pokemon merits him B-/C+, though personally I think he's more of a C+ simply because his most useful set (Defensive) is mostly outperformed by Tank Swampert.

Against nearly every wall, Bouffalant has the bulk to take a hit if he 2HKOs them. Getting revenge killed is a problem but you can just withdraw Bouffalant to dent something else later in the match as well. He probably does want wish support if you need to break numerous walls, which is a disadvantage, but his sheer hitting power is really, really awesome. He's like CB Staraptor with bulk instead of speed.

That makes sense sorta. Seismitoad's statistical bulk isn't really all that, but his typing makes up for it.
Do swift swim sets go physical or special nowadays?

 

[Loudo]

Um, Specs Analytic Magnezone is not supposed to sweep Loudo .

Err, I am simply quoting the opinion of users who actually tried the thing.

I don't think it's fair to just say something along the lines of "It can't outspeed many things as a Specs user, so it can't do well."

I didn't say that it can't do well, otherwise it wouldn't be A rank either. I'm saying that it isn't reliable enough to be S rank. I'm sure it works wonders against some Pokémon/teams.
But I can see it being dead weight against many teams as well (a fact which seems to be confirmed by those users who actually tried the thing). I don't see, for example, Magnezone performing well against most offensive teams, especially because: 1) they don't switch much; 2) despite Magnezone's many resistances, it happens to be weak to three of the top offensive types and neutral to a forth.

Even as a wallbreaker it isn't completely reliable. It loses one on one against many walls including, off the top of my head, Chansey, Hippowdon, specially defensive Zapdos, Mega Aggron, Mega Blastoise, Metagross.
Ironically, Florges tends to have Protect most of the times, making Choice Specs a burden.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Shaymin was actually ranked S-ranked last gen--even with Crobat was around. It's still great at this gen, basically beating every wall with a combination of Seed Flare, Leech Seed, and its coverage moves.

 

[BossPlayerOG]

It's slightly confusing to me that Swellow isn't ranked already but I'd have it at a B/B-
It has Guts, facade and is normal/flying type. So not only are you getting 210 normal type move, you have stab priority in terms of quick attack, and 180 on a brave bird. Swellow is one of the fastest things in the tier at 125 base. And since you'd only ever run it with guts you get 127.5 base attack.
I'm more inclined to B- possibly even a C+ now checking the move pool since its so shallow, but you baton pass a shell smash and it's faster than an unburden Hawlucha. Also since you're running with a flame orb, you avoid statuses so no sleeping or para hax.
Can't think of much else atm, but I'm saying that swellow is a threat, and with correct set-up ie screens then it's sorta unstoppable

 

[Aragorn the King]

It's slightly confusing to me that Swellow isn't ranked already but I'd have it at a B/B-
It has Guts, facade and is normal/flying type. So not only are you getting 210 normal type move, you have stab priority in terms of quick attack, and 180 on a brave bird. Swellow is one of the fastest things in the tier at 125 base. And since you'd only ever run it with guts you get 127.5 base attack.
I'm more inclined to B- possibly even a C+ now checking the move pool since its so shallow, but you baton pass a shell smash and it's faster than an unburden Hawlucha. Also since you're running with a flame orb, you avoid statuses so no sleeping or para hax.
Can't think of much else atm, but I'm saying that swellow is a threat, and with correct set-up ie screens then it's sorta unstoppable

Of course everything is great with a SS boost. That isn't much of an argument. But I may agree with C+, as it's a super strong + fast pokemon with great STAB power and immunity to status. What holds it back is its dreadful movepool and terrible bulk, but it can be effective.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Nominating Lanturn for A-/A rank

As this thing is a fantastic wall and defensive pivot and counters many common volt turn pokemon such as mega manectric rotom-h tornadus-t and many more and has two useful immunities in water absorb and volt absorb. It can also beat crawdaunt 1vs1 if water absorb as it can take a knock off and switch in then get healed by a aqua jet. All this being said it is only A-/A as it has no recovery outside of lefty's and rest talk/abilities.

Just bringing this back up as it was buried and because I have a few more points too say. Lanturn may be outclassed as a electric type by zapdos and as a bulky water type bu it's these two things together that make it unique as it makes one of the best defensive pivots in the tier and a very good cleric. It can support the team in many ways with a slow volt turn and healing status. At the very least lanturn should be higher then b- as it is a solid defensive poke and a amazing poke in the meta right now.

 

[nkhlshnd99]

Is analytic magnezone really better than magnet pull? Also, why is meloetta still C+. It can do this:
252+ SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 296-351 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(296, 302, 304, 307, 312, 315, 317, 322, 325, 328, 333, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351)

 

[Schpoonman]

2HKOing uninvested Slowbro with a SE special attack isn't really anything special. Starmie's been doing that since day 1. Literally, the first day Pokemon was released. I AM using Timid LO Meloetta with 4 attacks, however, and the coverage is super nice. Hyper Voice and Psychic hit really hard, and Shadow Ball and Focus Blast are still obviously picture-perfect in coverage besides. The Steel nerf helps out tremendously, letting you 2HKO PDef Bronzong and offensive Jirachi and Metagross, which just straight-up wasn't possible in Gen V. Her special bulk is also fairly astounding, 100/128 lets you tank a lot of neutral hits other Pokemon would be crumbling under. This is, of course, ignoring Relic Song and Meloetta-Pirouette entirely.

There's not a lot of Steel-types right now to capitalize on (no Ferrothorn with his 4x weakness to HP Fire or Skarmory and his instant deadness to Tbolt/Volt Switch), and the few that are here can do some nasty work to Magnezone. So you're better off working as an EXTREMELY hard-hitting pivot.

 

[Mazz]

Is analytic magnezone really better than magnet pull? Also, why is meloetta still C+. It can do this:
252+ SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 296-351 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(296, 302, 304, 307, 312, 315, 317, 322, 325, 328, 333, 335, 338, 343, 346, 351)

For a few reasons actually. The two biggest I can think of the lack of easily-beaten Steel-types in UU, as well as the power boost obtained by Magnezone when running Analytic.

Analytic Magnezone is better than Magnet Pull Magnezone mostly due to the majority of Steel-types being able to beat Magnezone 1 on 1 (Magnezone is forced to run Air Balloon or Magnet Rise) and the nerf to Hidden Power, which prevents Magnezone from further damaging said Steel-types. If Magnezone were to run Magnet Pull and try to capitalize on trapping Steel-types, it would only find success against Empoleon (conditional), Ferroseed, and maybe Registeel (that's within the top 200 Pokemon used last month). Empoleon is listed as conditional, as a Choice Specs set would likely blow past Magnezone with some entry hazards support.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (a bulkier Magnezone)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 288-340 (102.4 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (say, Scarf Magnezone erroneously switching in)

So of the dozen or so Steel-types in UU, all but 3 of which don't have access to Ground-type moves, the potential for Magnezone to successfully trap and KO that Pokemon are exceptionally slim. Also, due to the new type mechanics, Doublade, another one of UU's resident Steel-types, cannot be trapped thanks to its Ghost-typing, a major upset for the would-be Magnet Pull Magnezone.

Being slower than most of its competition however, allows Magnezone to handily utilize its other ability, Analytic, and further boost its power, making it a very fearsome wallbreaker. Base 60 Speed is not a fast tier in Underused, so being able to capitalize on a lower Speed stat is a great benefit for a slower Pokemon. As mentioned, when coupled with its decent coverage and base 130 Special Attack stat, Analytic Magnezone becomes a machine and does work against the majority of its competition. Once coupled with Choice Specs or a Life Orb, Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt become very scary in their respective ways, and will allow Magnezone to blast through many of the tier's walls.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 296-350 (82.2 - 97.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Signal Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 282-332 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Aggron: 289-342 (84 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

However, even with its power boost, Analytic Choice Specs Magnezone still fails to 2HKO Porygon2 or even 3HKO Chansey, and requires Knock Off support to truly become a menace.

 

[eggman62]

I have found that Offensive Shaymin and choiced analytic Magnezone make an amazing offensive core, while they share a weakness to fire moves, most of Shaymins checks or counters are in turn countered or checked by Magnezone. For example Crobat a popular counter to Shaymin is completely useless against Magnezone as it is immune to poison moves and resists flying moves, this will more often than not force the opponent to switch subsequently giving Magnezone a free analytic boost.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Basically, if you pair Zone with something like Mienshao (Or any hard hitting physical type with U-Turn) you are basically going to get at least 1 kill with Zone or the other, especially with hazards. Zone has great typing offensively in this meta, with fairies being everywhere. Simply wall break and have something like Reckless Mienshao to take care.

 

[Taehl]

Basically, if you pair Zone with something like Mienshao (Or any hard hitting physical type with U-Turn) you are basically going to get at least 1 kill with Zone or the other, especially with hazards. Zone has great typing offensively in this meta, with fairies being everywhere. Simply wall break and have something like Reckless Mienshao to take care.

That's true, but you can say something like that about victini too. Just because it hits hard doesn't mean it's an S-Rank worthy Pokémon.

 

[Limitless]

That's true, but you can say something like that about victini too. Just because it hits hard doesn't mean it's an S-Rank worthy Pokémon.

The difference is that Magnezone can break nearly every wall in the metagame, while also being able to switch in on most of them. Victini isn't able to make that claim, which is why Magnezone is S rank, and Victini is not.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

That's true, but you can say something like that about victini too. Just because it hits hard doesn't mean it's an S-Rank worthy Pokémon.

I mean, Mag can actually beat one of the most common special walls, Florges. It won't beat Chansey, but that is what the other 5 mon's are for. Zone can also run a viable scarf, assault, or balloon set. I don't know, Zygarde and Zone always gives my teams problem, could just be me though.

 

[Assertingfire3]

I am surprised moltres is unranked so i like to nominate it to B+/B

Moltres has two great stabs in fire and flying making ithe vain of grass types existance. And a speed stat of 90 puts it into a decent speed tier. Moltres is also capable of u turning to escape from check and counters while keeping momentom. Moltres is also capable of playing both a defensive subroost set and a offensive choice scarf or life orb set. Though moltres has a crippling stealth rock weakness with the defog buff it now easier to keep stealth rocks off the field sparingnmoltres from losing 50% of its health. But it does haves flaws in that hurricane has shaky accuracy and it has a 4x rock weakness which is why i think it belongs it belongs in B+ at he highest but my opinion might change.

 

[Frost Nocturne]

Seconding the praise for Mega Aerodactyl. Mega Aero should be in A-, if not A. I'm using a team which happens to contain all A rank Pokemon and Aero is the MVP 9 out of 10 matches. It outspeeds and OHKOs 3 of the S-ranked mons, and 2HKOs the rest aside from Suicune. Tough Claws Aerial Ace hits deceptively hard, essentially equivalent to max Atk Crobat's Brave Bird, and allows it to destroy the grass types infesting the tier, particularly Chesnaught. Adamant Aero does 92.7 - 109.2% on offensive Latias with Crunch, OHKOing after SR. An offensive set with STABs and aqua tail cleanly outspeeds and such common and dangerous threats as OHKOs Victini, Keldeo, Zapdos, Nidoking, Roserade, Crobat, and Tornadus-T, switching into the last two with impunity. Also has a chance to 2HKO 252/252+ Hippowdon with aqua tail while it can do nothing back. Mega Aero essentially acts as a choice scarf revenge killer that can switch moves and take down half the defensive threats in the tier, especially if you carry taunt. And with sand being so common with Hippowdon it can take a surprising amount of hits on the special side. The all-out attacking set has performed incredibly in my experience, but this doesn't even take into account the fact that it can stallbreak with taunt / roost and support with defog / SR, all while maintaining a strong offensive presence that allows it to clean up balanced and offensive teams late-game quite often.

TL;DR: Mega Aerodactyl deserves A- at the lowest.

 

[Loudo]

The difference is that Magnezone can break nearly every wall in the metagame, while also being able to switch in on most of them.

cannot break Mega Aggron (fails to OHKO, Earthquake)

cannot break Amoongus (fails to 2HKO, Amoongus can Spore and let another Pokémon switch in safely because it's slower)

cannot break Arcanine (can't switch in)

cannot break Mega Blastoise (Aura Sphere has 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

cannot break specially defensive Celebi without Signal Beam (which means losing Volt Switch) (loses to Leech Seed + Recover pressure, Earth Power)

cannot break Chansey

cannot break Cresselia (she'll either Calm Mind or set up Light Screen, after either Magnezone fails to 2HKO physically defensive Cresselia, Cresselia can recover Magnezone cannot)

cannot break Hippowdon (fails to OHKO, Earthquake)

cannot break Metagross (Earthquake)

cannot break Rhyperior (can't switch in)

cannot break Snorlax (fails to 2HKO, Earthquake)

cannot reliably break Swampert (Swampert speedties at worst since Magnezone won't invest in Speed)

cannot break specially defensive Zapdos (fails to OHKO, Zapdos can just Roost in your face becoming resistant to Electric and 2HKO with uninvested Heat Wave)

cannot break Zygarde



And finally, just for the lols

cannot break Shedinja (no SE move)


And finally, I have seen what happens in Florges vs CS Magnezone match ups. Florges Protects and scouts what move Magnezone is locking itself into. Something that resists that attack can then switch in. The same can be said about many other walls Magnezone can beat, like Umbreon and Vaporeon.
Again, I'm not saying Magnezone is bad so don't answer me with an argument about how Magnezone is good despite its shortcomings. I'm not saying Magnezone isn't a good Pokémon, I'm just saying it's not reliable enough to be S rank.

 

[radianthero156]

that's not how magnezone works. it's going to switch on something that can't damage it (and it's the most resistant pokémon in the entire game!), force a switch and cripple or outright destroy the switch-in.

-you're using a toxic defog zapdos, or florges, or a resisted locked move, or etc;
-i switch magnezone in;
-you can't touch me, so you switch out;

now, you switch out and send one of those you mentioned:

thunderbolt does 80% average, and you lack recovery;

flash cannon does 55%-63% on the switch, and the next one does 44%-49%. wanna risk?

does 68% minimum, assuming you're using the retarded specially defensive set which sucks ?_?

thunderbolt

flash cannon does 50% minimum to 252/252+ celebi, after stealth rock it's a clean 2HKO and no celebi run earth power because it's bad

can't break, but can volt switch out and send something like mienshao or hawlucha

i don't know if cresselias are usually physic or special defensive, but if it is running calm mind it's probably physic defensive; in that case, thunderbolt does 56%-66% and will outlast moonlight. if it goes for calm mind instead, it will be at 34%-44%, while the other thunderbolt will do 37%-44%, again needing luck with damage numbers.

again, not sure if they're physic or special defensive, but according to statistics, most are impish. in that case, flash cannon does 90%-100%, and magnezone outspeeds it

clean OHKO with thunderbolt if they're not using hp/spdef evs or assault vest

clean OHKO with flash cannon

the most used set is 252 hp/252 atk adamant, which takes average 60% from thunderbolt, but the careful one takes 45%. volt switch anyways

grass hidden power OHKOs it cleanly (signal beam, hidden power ice are all bad, don't use them)

252 hp/252 spdef calm zapdos takes up to 76% from thunderbolt on the switch, risking being OHKOed w/ stealth rock. also, if stealth rock is up, volt switch will do 50% minimum, and i'll send anything faster => bye zapdos

takes 81%-96% from flash cannon

also, other 2 special walls that are used a lot, jirachi and florges, cannot hope to dream to avoid dying to magnezone; pretty neat for a special attacker

 

[Loudo]

that's not how magnezone works. it's going to switch on something that can't damage it (and it's the most resistant pokémon in the entire game!), force a switch and cripple or outright destroy the switch-in.

The list of Pokémon that can't damage Magnezone is a lot shorter than you seem to think. Magnezone can safely switch in against Water-types (except for some like Blastoise, Swampert, Gastrodon, Quagsire) and some walls (Florges, Umbreon, etc.)
That's basically it. Any other Pokémon with any offensive presence either carries moves that are SE against Steel-types or has unresisted Dark STAB.

That makes Magnezone unreliable, because it becomes nigh useless against more offensively oriented teams, or against teams that use the walls Magnezone can't beat or switch into (which are, again, a lot more than you seem to think).

(Also, you are assuming you correctly predict every switch, which is not fair because: 1) when you judge a Pokémon you can't assume best case scenarios; 2) I just finished explaining that many of the Pokémon Magnezone is supposed to defeat carry Protect.)

 

[termi]

People who think Analytic Specs Magnezone shouldn't invest in speed are doing it wrong. I myself run enough speed to creep on Assault Vest Metagross, who, with a 0/252 spread, takes 59% minimum from Tbolt on switchin and is then outsped and takes 45% minimum from a non-Analytic Tbolt, KOing him before he even has the chance to EQ. Meanwhile, the only relevant thing you're missing out on is Umbreon, who is never 2HKO'd without SR on the field after 2 rounds of lefties recovery (Protect) anyway, sooo basically trying to outslow as many thing as possible is not at all a good idea.

cannot break Mega Aggron (fails to OHKO, Earthquake)

cannot break Amoongus (fails to 2HKO, Amoongus can Spore and let another Pokémon switch in safely because it's slower)

cannot break Arcanine (can't switch in)

cannot break Mega Blastoise (Aura Sphere has 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

cannot break specially defensive Celebi without Signal Beam (which means losing Volt Switch) (loses to Leech Seed + Recover pressure, Earth Power)

cannot break Chansey

cannot break Cresselia (she'll either Calm Mind or set up Light Screen, after either Magnezone fails to 2HKO physically defensive Cresselia, Cresselia can recover Magnezone cannot)

cannot break Hippowdon (fails to OHKO, Earthquake)

cannot break Metagross (Earthquake)

cannot break Rhyperior (can't switch in)

cannot break Snorlax (fails to 2HKO, Earthquake)

cannot reliably break Swampert (Swampert speedties at worst since Magnezone won't invest in Speed)

cannot break specially defensive Zapdos (fails to OHKO, Zapdos can just Roost in your face becoming resistant to Electric and 2HKO with uninvested Heat Wave)

cannot break Zygarde



And finally, just for the lols

cannot break Shedinja (no SE move)


And finally, I have seen what happens in Florges vs CS Magnezone match ups. Florges Protects and scouts what move Magnezone is locking itself into. Something that resists that attack can then switch in. The same can be said about many other walls Magnezone can beat, like Umbreon and Vaporeon.
Again, I'm not saying Magnezone is bad so don't answer me with an argument about how Magnezone is good despite its shortcomings. I'm not saying Magnezone isn't a good Pokémon, I'm just saying it's not reliable enough to be S rank.

You don't even know what you're saying. Using a moveset consisting of Volt Switch/Tbolt/Flash Cannon/HP Grass, the only things on this list that stand a chance of beating Magnezone are Amoonguss (but only when using a 252/252 Calm spread, but most good players EV him so that he can also tank physical blows with ease, also, when you've already used your Spore you can't do shit to him except maybe launch a weak HP Fire), specially defensive Arcanine (except it sucks lol), Chansey (wow a special wallbreaker can't break through Chansey big fuckin whoop), Cresselia (uncommon), Celebi (but only if it runs Earth Power), Snorlax (uncommon), specially defensive Zapdos and Zygarde (who still doesn't appreciate a Flash Cannon to the face at all). Everything else on your list is either OHKOd by one of its moves or takes a ton on switchin, is then outsped and 2HKOd by a second hit (this is why you want to outspeed AV Metagross). And Mega Blastoise and Mega Aggron counters? Fuckin really?

On another note, you're downplaying the fact that on many of these supposed "counters", Magnezone can simply use Volt Switch, still do a lot of damage, and pivot into something that can deal with these counters.

The list of Pokémon that can't damage Magnezone is a lot shorter than you seem to think. Magnezone can safely switch against Water-types (except for some like Blastoise, Swampert, Gastrodon, Quagsire) and some walls (Florges, Umbreon, etc.)
That's basically it. Any other Pokémon with any offensive presence either carries moves that are SE against Steel-types or have unresisted Dark STAB.

That makes Magnezone unreliable, because it becomes nigh useless against more offensively oriented teams, or against teams that use the walls Magnezone can't beat or switch into (which are, again, a lot more than you seem to think).

(Also, you are assuming you correctly predict every switch, which is not fair because: 1) when you judge a Pokémon you can't assume best case scenarios; 2) I just finished explaining that many of the Pokémon Magnezone is supposed to defeat carry Protect.)

You fail to mention Crobat, standard Latias, Pokemon locked into one of the 12 (!) types Magnezone resists/is immune to, defensive/supportive Jirachi sets and Amoonguss/Roserade once something on your team is asleep. Inbetween all of these and most bulky waters and Florges/Umbreon (two of the most common special walls out there, mind you), Magnezone is hardly a situational Pokemon at all. Honestly, if you were to come with good arguments as to why Magnezone isn't worthy of S-rank then I could consider it, but as it stands you're bringing no good arguments to the table.

 

[Loudo]

counters

You seem to miss my point, despite the fact that I've repeated it 2 times already.
I never said those are counters, I said those are walls that Magnezone can't reliable wallbreak, meaning that a team using those walls + offensive Pokémon is going to give Magnezone little to no chance to do anything relevant.

You fail to mention Crobat, standard Latias, Pokemon locked into one of the 12 (!) types Magnezone resists/is immune to, defensive/supportive Jirachi sets and Amoonguss/Roserade once something on your team is asleep.,

Fair enough about Crobat and Latias. But mentioning Pokémon locked in wrong moves only makes you look desperate, mind you.

Honestly, if you were to come with good arguments as to why Magnezone isn't worthy of S-rank then I could consider it, but as it stands you're bringing no good arguments to the table.

You do know that the burden of proof rests upon you as you are the one asserting something, I am the one negating it, do you? I asked two pages ago what Magnezone set makes it S rank and I have yet to receive an answer.
I guess I have to give up hope on someone addressing the issue that Choice Specs is not a good item for Magnezone because half of the walls it is supposed to break carry Protect.

 

[termi]

You seem to miss my point, despite the fact that I've repeated it 2 times already.
I never said those are counters, I said those are walls that Magnezone can't reliable wallbreak, meaning that a team using those walls + offensive Pokémon is going to give Magnezone little to no chance to do anything relevant.

Except it can reliably kill half of these walls with a bit of prediction.

Fair enough about Crobat and Latias. But mentioning Pokémon locked in wrong moves only makes you look desperate, mind you.

It would make me look desperate if we were talking about Crawdaunt who can switch in on Scarf Chandelure being locked into one of its STABs or something. We're talking about the Pokemon with the highest amount of resistances there is (with possibly the exception of the Aegislash line idk), and it has the bulk to tank these resisted hits too. If your team doesn't already carry one of the many mons that can't do shit to Magnezone, it at least carries something with a Choice item and a move that Magnezone would love to come in on.

You do know that the burden of proof rests upon you as you are the one asserting something, I am the one negating it, do you? I asked two pages ago what Magnezone set makes it S rank and I have yet to receive an answer.
I guess I have to give up hope on someone addressing the issue that Choice Specs is not a good item for Magnezone because half of the walls it is supposed to break carry Protect.

Fair enough, Florges carries Protect, but it's way too easy to Flash Cannon on the Protect and then switch in your Manectric on the obvious Suicune switchin the next turn. Honestly, Florges is really predictable. Also, other than her, there aren't many walls that carry Protect aside from Umbreon and Chansey, but hey, guess what? You're not getting past them anyway.

Also, how does the burden of proof rest upon me? I am simply defending Magnezone, he's in S rank and I give arguments as to why he should stay S rank. You, on the other hand, are the one attacking it and shouldn't the attacker be the one who brings us proof? And then again, I'd say "it can come in on many Pokemon and then proceed to one-shot half the metagame, no questions asked" is pretty valid proof.

 

[Loudo]

Except it can reliably kill half of these walls with a bit of prediction.

"Reliably" and "with prediction" cannot stay in the same sentence.

If your team doesn't already carry one of the many mons that can't do shit to Magnezone, it at least carries something with a Choice item and a move that Magnezone would love to come in on.

To use your own argument, it's way too easy to switch in your Ground-type on the obvious Magnezone switch in the next turn.

Fair enough, Florges carries Protect, but it's way too easy to Flash Cannon on the Protect and then switch in your Manectric on the obvious Suicune switchin the next turn.

Uh, nice team with two Ground-weak Electric-types you got there?
Anyway, what you have accomplished exactly? After your opponent knows what move you're locked into, you're both going to blindly predict. Magnezone brought you no concrete advantage.

Can we drop the "prediction" argument, please? Prediction is always taking a gamble, which implies any of the two players can win it. An S-rank Pokémon should not force you to rely on prediction.

Also, how does the burden of proof rest upon me? I am simply defending Magnezone, he's in S rank and I give arguments as to why he should stay S rank. You, on the other hand, are the one attacking it and shouldn't the attacker be the one who brings us proof?

This is the statement we are arguing about: "Magnezone is an S-rank Pokémon, meaning it can reliably etc."
If you think that statement is true you are the one making a claim about Magnezone and you should support it with arguments. I, on the other hand, am opposing it, which means I should provide counterarguments.

The fact that Magnezone is listed in the S rank right now is irrelevant. Whoever put it in that position has the burden to justify its decision.

And then again, I'd say "it can come in on many Pokemon and then proceed to one-shot half the metagame, no questions asked" is pretty valid proof.

Show me what Pokémon we are talking about, because I'm saying I don't buy it.

Chansey: Can't do anything against it.

Hawlucha: High Jump Kick.

Houndoom (Mega): Fire STAB.

Hydreigon: Takes huge damage from Dark Pulse, can't switch in Focus Blast/Earth Power/Earthquake.

Magnezone: Can't do anything against it.

Slowbro: +

Suicune: +

Blastoise (Mega): Aura Sphere.

Celebi: Can't defeat specially defensive Celebi after switching in, it has reason to fear Earth Power from offensive variants.

Chandelure: Fire STAB.

Chesnaught: Hammer Arm, can Spiky Shield to see what it locks itself into.

Crawdaunt: Knock Off + Aqua Jet is enough to kill.

Darmanitan: Fire STAB.

Florges: can Protect to see what it locks itself into.

Keldeo: Secret Sword.

Latias: +

Mew: + (if defensive)

Mienshao: Fighting STAB.

Victini: V-create.

Zapdos: Can't defeat specially defensive Zapdos after switching in, Heat Wave.

Crobat: + (but Crobat could just U-turn as it switches in)

Haxorus: Earthquake.

Heracross: Close Combat.

Hippowdon: Earthquake.

Jirachi: + (if defensive)

Manectric (Mega): Overheat.

Nidoking: Earth Power.

Reuniclus: Either Calm Mind or Trick Room + Focus Blast.

Roserade: Can Sleep Powder.

Tornadus-T: Focus Blast, Heat Wave.

Zygarde: Earthquake.

Absol (Mega): +

Aggron (Mega): Earthquake.

Azelf: Fire Blast.

Empoleon: +

Entei: Fire STAB.

Krookodile: Earthquake.

Kyurem: Earth Power.

Can I stop here? This is becoming tedious. The whole argument behind Magnezone seems to be "It can switch into a lot of stuff, force said stuff out, and deal huge amount of damage (if it predicts the next switch in right)."
The Pokémon it can't reliably switch into are way more then the Pokémon that give it free switches. And it is slow, meaning that it can't actually force a lot of switches against many offensive Pokémon.
And, even when it does switch in safely and can force a switch it is still not guaranteed to do anything useful, especially against Florges, which can just scout what move you're going to lock yourself into.

 

[Limitless]

I love how nearly all the Pokemon you've listed are OHKO'd by Magnezone. Those are some nice counters.

Despite my sarcasm, it's obvious to everyone that Magnezone is slow (it's supposed to be, lol - analytic). The reason why it's broken is because of its ridiculous damage, to sweepers and walls alike. There is no other argument. And even though that is the only argument, it is enough to be S ranked and banned. The only way to beat Magnezone is to run HO; good luck.

 

[termi]

blah blah wall of text blah

Can you please stop posting huge lists and say "omg look dis pokemon ez a v. gud magnezon killer!! !!!!! :o" because I do not feel like pointing out why half the mons you say kill Magnezone prove nothing, one by one. General comment though: Good luck switching that shit in on Magnezone.

Look kid, I fucking told you it can one-shot half the meta. The fact that half the meta can also kill it does not refute my point at all. I also listed the mons that it can switch in on already and these switchin points are all it needs to blast something.

On another note, prediction is pretty much what this whole fuckin game is about. Rven with an S rank Pokemon you can't just autopilot yourself through every match and if you can it's probably unhealthy for the meta anyway lol. If some simple prediction makes a Pokemon unreliable all of a sudden then you'd have to question on your own skill. Oh by the way, Magnezone has Volt Switch, meaning that it can also just pivot out of threats, making it a lot more reliable than you make it seem, and I still haven't seen any attempts on refuting that point.

Also, while we are discussing Specs Magnezone, let's not forget that it can run many different sets, which obviously contribute to its ranking. I mean, what would happen if it was a Magnezone with Leftovers who runs Substitute over Volt Switch? Suddenly your Florges has turned into straight-up setup bait. What if Magnezone runs Air Balloon? Suddenly your Haxorus, your Kyurem, your Aggron, your Zygarde, they all can't touch Magnezone while it dishes out huge chunks of damage. What if it runs Assault Vest? SE coverage moves now can't even 2HKO it anymore in many cases. It's not exactly a one-dimensional Pokemon, and while yes, the Specs set is the best, the fact that it doesn't have to use a Specs set makes it even better than it is.

I love how nearly all the Pokemon you've listed are OHKO'd by Magnezone. Those are some nice counters.

Despite my sarcasm, it's obvious to everyone that Magnezone is slow (it's supposed to be, lol - analytic). The reason why it's broken is because of its ridiculous damage, to sweepers and walls alike. There is no other argument. And even though that is the only argument, it is enough to be S ranked and banned. The only way to beat Magnezone is to run HO; good luck.

It's not banworthy imo, Umbreon and Chansey fit well on more balanced/defensive teams and they can take Magnezone on quite decently. It is definitely S rank though.