Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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Looking at the conditions for Z-Moves...I just auto-assumed it had to be your type but I can't find anything saying it has to match your type. They have to have done this, they can't be that stupid right?
From official website :

"Intense Battles with Z-Moves
There are two conditions for performing Z-Moves: a Pokémon must learn a move of the same type as a Z-Crystal, and it must be holding the corresponding Z-Crystal."

It's an empowered move, so it's logical to be based on a move from that type and not the type of the pokemon.
 
mermaid Pokemon exist: Vaporeon
True. What I should have said is something more closely resembling a mermaid. Vaporeon has mermaid features, but is still kinda...dog-like (idk what it's supposed to be). Popplio's final evolution is more close to typical depictions of mermaids, which is what I've been wanting to see.
 
Endless possibilities are now open.
So much this.
We are used to type changes that add a secondary typing to an already existing typing (Charmeleon => Charizard) or replace one type of a dual-typing (Surskit => Masquerain).

Complete 180s in typing are basically unheard of except for maybe Eevee and gimmicks like Arceus that aren't permanent. Now we have Ice/Steel Sandshrew and Ice/Fairy Vulpix. The possibilities ARE endless now...
 
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Regarding Oricorio, I personally think Sensu-Style has the most potential. Ghost/Flying's three immunities can distinguish it from the overall better defensive typing of Pom-Pom-Style, and it seems like the type to have decent supporting moves. Also, I can't help but wonder if the Styles will have differing learnsets, like Male and Female Meowstic.
I think they'll have the same movepool. I think that because of the signature move. It wouldn't make sense to give them all one signature move that changes types according to the kind of dance they know and then go ahead and give other different moves. I think the difference might come in form of the TMs each form can learn, but the level up movepool will probably be the same.
 
Looking at the conditions for Z-Moves...I just auto-assumed it had to be your type but I can't find anything saying it has to match your type. They have to have done this, they can't be that stupid right?
I also made that failed assumption.

Anyways, I think it would work the following way:

Let's pick this as an example:

Serperior @ Grass-type Z-Crystal
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power Fire
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
You battle with it normally until you decide to activate the crystal:

Serperior @ Grass-type Z-Crystal
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bloom Doom
- Hidden Power Fire
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

OR

Serperior @ Grass-type Z-Crystal
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power Fire
- Substitute
- Bloom Doom
Then you use the move and then your set takes its initial form again, and until the end of the battle.

Otherwise I can't see how the "must be able to know a move of the same type as the Z-Crystal" will work. It kind of looks like it overwrites the required move until it's used.
 
Wow, that's a lot of new info.

New Pokemon: DDR Bird is an interesting concept and I love the design of each one. Then there's Yungoos evolving into Gumshoos, a gumshoe on the stakeout. Oh Gamefreak, you and your puns. The other ones (minior and fomantis) look interesting enough too, and I already loved Mudsdale.

New Forms: Didn't expect this, but it looks like Gamefreak went and made the pokemon variants art meme canon (where artist would draw pokemon with slight breed differences, usually based on egg groups). While it does look pretty cool (see Gamefreak? I can pun too!) I just wonder how they will handle movesets and stats with the alternate forms, or even pokedex entries. And while I welcome any change that keeps the old 'mons in pace with the new 'mons, I hope we don't get a serious case of alternate-itis in the next few generations.

Z-moves: well now I know why the gems from Gen 5 made a disappearance (sans normal gem), since at it's core this is an improved version of the elemental gems. Single use super attacks that require giving up your hold item, yep it's the gems. There are some significant differences though, for one while the gems powered up one of your known moves once this time it gives you an entirely new one to work with. Still lots of questions of course, like:
1. Can you use 6 Z-moves in a battle if you give Z-stones to your entire party?
2. If you have to just know a move of the same type, does this count support moves that aren't attacks? Can a 'mon use the poison Z-move just for knowing toxic for example?
3. Will there be physical and special variants? If there aren't any, then can you use a physical fire attack and still get a special inferno overdrive for example?
4. And general stuff like accuracy and base power. I'm kind of assuming these are just hyper beams without the drawbacks, but they could be more than that.

Still, given the few things we do know, Z-moves will greatly expand movesets for some 'mons that could really just use a better coverage move to use in a pinch, like those that rely on the relatively weak elemental punches and fangs.

No Gyms: I don't mind that they have been taken away, I'm more concerned with what replaces them. Since 4 challenges replacing 8 gyms does sound like getting shorted by the Aloha exchange rate. So for me it's not so much what they took more than it's what they replace it with. It could be great and more involved than gyms ever were... or we could truly be shorted here. I'll wait and see.
 
From official website :

"Intense Battles with Z-Moves
There are two conditions for performing Z-Moves: a Pokémon must learn a move of the same type as a Z-Crystal, and it must be holding the corresponding Z-Crystal."

It's an empowered move, so it's logical to be based on a move from that type and not the type of the pokemon.
I now really dislike this feature. Aren't they meant to be like Mega Evolutions but for moves? I guess I can hold onto that fraction of hope it needs to be your type otherwise it doesn't work.
 
This makes me think they didn't think through everything with Z moves...

An even more WTF example is Inferno Overdrive Ludicolo.

Edit: Flying Z-Move Dugtrio.
So it is GODDAMN POWERFULL free coverage that is only once per team

Is kinda like a Natural Gift in steroids, that every Pokémon can get, and doesn't waste a moveslot, but it still takes you an item slot, and it is one use only (Hey, just like the berries)

We have only seen Pokémon using Z-moves of their own type, which is dissapointing... I can't wait for my Inferno Overdrive Magikarp

The lure meta is going to be fun in gen 7
 
With the reduced risk of having your item used up before you need it.

(Supposing it can't get Knocked Off)
Sweet Jesus, if natural gift already destroys quaggy, Ttar, Heatran and Rotom...making it more reliable with a knock off resistance...mother of God...
 
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Sweet Jesus, if natural gift already destroys quaggy, Ttar, Heatran and Rotom...making it more reliable with a knock off resistance...mother of God...
The only problem is that it would have to run a Grass-type move... which means having to run Solar Beam.

Ground-type Z-Move on Talonflame is outright impossible if Hidden Power does not count (The line does not learn Sand Attack)
 
The only problem is that it would have to run a Grass-type move... which means having to run Solar Beam.

Ground-type Z-Move on Talonflame is outright impossible if Hidden Power does not count (The line does not learn Sand Attack)
True I was using apicot natural gift for heatran.
 

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INB4 Alolan Flygon, Bug/Dragon.
Alolan Milotic Dragon/Fairy :v4:

Endless possibilities are now open.
Yes, I know you're all excited and stuff, but please remember that we still have a wishlisting rule. Posts like "I really want..." or "wouldn't it be neat if..." are exciting to write, but not necessarily to read, and they have a tendency to clutter the thread. So please, continue with observations, but leave your wishes elsewhere.

Thanks, all!
 
I'm wondering if z-moves have any kind of priority. I also wonder if you are going to be restricted to one pokemon with a z-move, at least in competitive play. Though z-moves can only be used once a battle, so who knows. Will a pokemon with a z-move and a mega pokemon be allowed on the same team? Or will you have to use one or the other? Another thing to think about is that using a z-move takes up the item slot, and presumably a move slot (unless z-moves are special "5th moves" and not considered part of a pokemon's moveset). So you'd have to think about how much you want to run a z-move on a pokemon as compared to another item or move.
 
The only problem is that it would have to run a Grass-type move... which means having to run Solar Beam.

Ground-type Z-Move on Talonflame is outright impossible if Hidden Power does not count (The line does not learn Sand Attack)
It already ran Natural Gift which is just as useless after the first move, so I don't see the issue with needing to run solar beam.
 
Natural Gift destroys the moveslot after it's used and z moves don't need to do that.

They can also power up a move that's already good ala the gems from 5th gen. I've been waiting for those to come back for a while so I'm excited about this.
 
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