This is why people want a Sunflora evo.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Honestly I hadn't even thought about how Bloodmoon handles the balance/fat matchup because I've been scared to run those styles due to Hearthflame lol. What do you think helps it take over balance that standard Luna doesn't have? I imagine the lack of timer is a big help against Regen. edit: being able to hold Leftovers helps in a major way too - Luna bleeds out over time while Bloodmoon can get it back.
Honestly, Ogerpon-Hearthflame definitely out of all the mons remaining deserved a QB. You had to prepare for it, of course I prefer suspect testing majority of things unless it's blatant but since we're dealing with a time crunch (DLC 2 incoming) this is necessary. I think Manaphy should probably get suspect tested over Ursaluna-Blood but honestly both are the only worthy mons of a suspect currently (new mons at least)
It’s regular Ursaluna without most of its issues, namely that Guts is a trap ability (not to be confused with trapping ability like Shadow Tag).
Guts restricting you to only using Flame Orb and taking constant chip is a massive downside people overlook.
Bloodmoon from Bloodmoon isn’t as strong as Guts Facade, but does it really need to be? It’s still powerful enough to scores a bunch of KOs and can use more moves because Moonlight+Lefties lets it stay in the game longer than constantly taking burn damage.
God forbid a woman actually succeeds at something.
Honestly all ogerpon forms are ridiculous but hearthflame was the hardest to deal with. In sun it destroyed most defensive counterplay and in webs it destroyed most offensive counterplay, hey at least we can use unaware now. Can't wait for ladder to start spamming rain teams with wellspring now, get your clodsires ready.
as for bloodmoon maybe it was people running bad sets but it really took me a while to realize how much it destroys balance despite the fact i was mainly running balance myself. Fellow balance players, how do you stop it after it gets one calm mind?
as for bloodmoon maybe it was people running bad sets but it really took me a while to realize how much it destroys balance despite the fact i was mainly running balance myself. Fellow balance players, how do you stop it after it gets one calm mind?
i thought so too for a while, but i'm starting to come around on bloodmoon. the calm mind sets absolutely compensate for the low spdef. it goes from 113/120/65 to an effective 113/120/106 uninvested after a single one. combined with recovery, that makes it damn hard to kill, and at +1 it's strong enough to 2hko virtually anything, including resists, with blood moon. it's like if cresselia had a gun
she girlbossed too hard, sad to see
It's a combination of factors. Bloodmoon 2hkos av glowking with earth power, can easily overwhelm gliscor before it can sufficiently toxic stall (not to mention it mandates toxic on glisc), obviously dismantles pex and alomomola, can beat most of fat's breakers like kingambit and pult though its physical bulk and vacuum wave. It necessitates that you trade your offensive mons (or outright lose them) in order to take it down. Not a huge deal for offense teams that thrive off of trades already, but it's a huge blow to balance teams who really need to save their wincons for the four other breakers often packed on the same team as bloodmoon.
What scares me the most is because it matches up poorly into weather and offense, and those two styles are by far the most popular on ladder and for suspect laddering in particular, that people will form an opinion on blood moon based on their experience with it versus the matchups its weak against. That is to say, if Blood Moon was suspected, I would bet a lot of money on it staying OU. To me blood moon is a textbook example of what Finch states is "not conducive with a metagame that allows for many archetypes to be viable and consistent", but its really unfortunate how it can put up the facade of being tame while completely invalidating less popular archetypes.
It's just a line at this point.
Hi, please take the tiering surveys seriously. As most of you should know by now Ogerpon-Hearthflame was quick-banned. It received fantastic support from the player base to give the council the ability to pull the trigger and put together a vote to remove it from the tier. It is great to see the player base voice resounding support to remove a Pokemon from the tier. I've seen some of the player base take issue with there being so many quick bans and not as many suspects. Which leads to me feeling the need to make this post. If you go into the survey checking simply 5's and 1's or trolling giving things like magearna 1s, you can not then have an issue with certain decisions that are made pertaining to the tier. If you want fewer quick bans then heading into a future survey you may wanna give something you find a potential threat to the tier but not deserving of a quick ban a 3 or a 4. I know the 5 may be tempting but if you really are against quick bans you may wanna show some restraint as it truly does matter. I also feel The player base needs to understand each council member has a different mentality and philosophy when voting on something pertaining to the tier. For Example, Finch our great tier leader has stated he will happily quickly ban something if it receives overwhelming support from the community, he is truly a man of the people any criticism aimed at him in regards to tiering is truly hard to validate so good luck with it. I myself when it comes to voting show a lot of restraint when voting and feel if a threat can be managed/outplayed enough I will not vote ban (i.e. Hearthflame). I can't speak for the other council members but I know they put in a lot of work and truly care about the player base's opinion.
Approaching the next vote if you aren't already, think about the long-term effects of the tier. For example, Sam-H received a 2 on the last tiering survey it was apart of and then proceeded to dominate the tier landscape pre dlc with its hazard stacking abilities alongside Ting Lu. Personally, I see gliscor having a similar effect on the tier that's why I was a vocal leader of including it on the survey. To my dismay not only did it receive a very low score but so did Ursa-BloodMoon. I'm not quite sure why BloodMoon's vote was low personally, maybe it's due to the previous overreaction of regular ursa or people believing due to its speed tier it can be maintained enough, I've seen this Pokemon win as many if not more games then the recently quick-banned Ogerpon-Hearthflame, hopefully, the player base realizes the problem that it is.
Anyway, I appreciate everyone who participates in the surveys and I look forward to the player base to continue voicing their important opinions. Your voice matters. Thank You.
Approaching the next vote if you aren't already, think about the long-term effects of the tier. For example, Sam-H received a 2 on the last tiering survey it was apart of and then proceeded to dominate the tier landscape pre dlc with its hazard stacking abilities alongside Ting Lu. Personally, I see gliscor having a similar effect on the tier that's why I was a vocal leader of including it on the survey. To my dismay not only did it receive a very low score but so did Ursa-BloodMoon. I'm not quite sure why BloodMoon's vote was low personally, maybe it's due to the previous overreaction of regular ursa or people believing due to its speed tier it can be maintained enough, I've seen this Pokemon win as many if not more games then the recently quick-banned Ogerpon-Hearthflame, hopefully, the player base realizes the problem that it is.
Anyway, I appreciate everyone who participates in the surveys and I look forward to the player base to continue voicing their important opinions. Your voice matters. Thank You.
And we appreciate your voice too, mate
To me, since my brain is so HO-brainrotted that I can barely play what most people consider 'bulky offense,' Bloodmoon never has been on my personal radar. However, I also just felt like the vocal minority that was clearly upset at it had genuine basis that I just never ran into, hence my 2 on it. Maybe I'll try taking it for a spin in the 1600s and 1700s and see just how quickly my opinion changes.
Pex doesn't get it, nor does dondozo
more like a man of the people who hate offense, grr, big stall wins again, smogon is allergic to fun or whatever >:(
It could just be my personal experience, but Blood Ursa doesn't seem difficult to deal with. It could be what I'm messing with, which is Special AV TTar on otherwise physical offense teams, or because I'm low ladder and my fellow scrubs seem to think you can put blood ursa on literally any team, but it doesn't seem overwhelming at all. On a similar note, the cheesey stored power Manaphy set seems like a flash in the pan. Yeah it's annoying but it requires everything to go right, which rarely happens in mons, and it's weak to phazing. (also tera dark water absorbers eat it alive)
people complaining about not getting a suspect rather than a survey because "its not listening to the community" is funny bc a survey gives the other 90%+ of active players a say in tiering while suspect tests are 200-300 people total, who do not care about your opinion anyways
survey -> quickban is actively asking you the player what you want done and giving what you want, while a suspect test doesn't give 90% of them a chance to vote anyways
survey -> quickban is actively asking you the player what you want done and giving what you want, while a suspect test doesn't give 90% of them a chance to vote anyways
and there goes the fire mask
Blood moon is something that I feel can be banned and be like "yeah that makes sense" and also can be not banned and I could say the same thing
Can't wait for ladder to spam the hell outta bloodmoon before it goes
Blood moon is something that I feel can be banned and be like "yeah that makes sense" and also can be not banned and I could say the same thing
Can't wait for ladder to spam the hell outta bloodmoon before it goes
how often are we seeing tera dark water absorbers outside of lures for that specific manaphy set? i can't think of anyone using tera dark, say, volcanion or gastrodon for anything outside of that purpose. maybe the sires, but they much prefer unaware in general
i havent had issues with bloodmoon, but it absolutely needs to be respected as a mon that forces good pivoting and managing its bloodmoon turns to be dealt with. Sometimes that means sacking a mon in the process, and theres a good chance it will take out something off your team if you dont thread carefully. It could go either way on if its broken or not, and I'm genuinely sitting at a 3 here. A suspect test will be exciting to see people arguments laid down
after ogerpon-whateversheis goes, next can either be manaphy or bloodmoon. I’m leaning towards manaphy as rain is going to be spammed intensely very soon, and clod gets folded by manaphy unless you burn a Tera, in which wagerpon will just sweep ur ass.
If there's enough support to suspect either Manaphy or Bloodmoon and the discussion is which is worse, I'd support more a suspect of Blood Moon. While I gave it a 2 on the survey and stated that felt it was dangerous but not worth a ban and that could become more manageable with time (and I was running a Balance team at the time), the following days of testing other teams, as well as using him myself (on Mono-Normal, but close enough) have made me change my mind.
I'm still unsure if it deserves a full ban, but I'd give it a 3~3.5 today and would completely understand a suspect.
I'm still unsure if it deserves a full ban, but I'd give it a 3~3.5 today and would completely understand a suspect.
I think that ogerpon fire got banned a little too soon, the metagame would probably adapt if it was given more time.
Anyway, I am not really mad or anything.
I can see why it got banned.
I wonder if it will get unbanned during the next dlc.
Anyway, something unrelated: what are your thoughts on clefable this gen?
Do you think that it will manage to stay in OU or it is going to drop due to the fact that there are too many poison and steel types running around?
Anyway, I am not really mad or anything.
I can see why it got banned.
I wonder if it will get unbanned during the next dlc.
Anyway, something unrelated: what are your thoughts on clefable this gen?
Do you think that it will manage to stay in OU or it is going to drop due to the fact that there are too many poison and steel types running around?
same here, i'm definitely starting to turn around on the mon after witnessing the full potential of what it's actually capable of. i gave it a 2 on both surveys, but if i were to be asked again, i would probably change it to a 3, and i'm in full support of a suspect for it
The meta has devolved into rock paper scissors with weather being rock, ho being scissors, and Bo being paper
Are we playing the same tier? This isn’t reflective of my experience whatsoever.
- Status