Tera's not getting banned. Stop counting on it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Neither you or anyone else here has any idea what the 19th Tera Type actually is, we have no idea wether it'll make Tera full on Banworthy or not
It has literally nothing to do with whether or not tera's ban worthy at all. Because that's not the criteria the anti-ban people are using. The 19th tera type doesn't matter. Tera will not be banned. If the 19th type is busted as hell, best you can hope for is that type to be banned.
Pro ban and anti-ban sides are literally having two separate arguments. They're on completely different wavelengths. Neither side is offering arguments that contradict the other sides argument, they're offering perfectly valid reasons that skip past each other. You can argue game balance, but it doesn't counter the argument that Tera is the gen mechanic. You can argue teambuilding and it doesn't counter the argument that Tera gives more variety to the tier and diversifies gameplay. And the Anti-ban side is more of the player base. More people would rather a generation be distinct but less balanced than more balanced but the same style as last gen.
Pro ban and anti-ban sides are literally having two separate arguments. They're on completely different wavelengths. Neither side is offering arguments that contradict the other sides argument, they're offering perfectly valid reasons that skip past each other. You can argue game balance, but it doesn't counter the argument that Tera is the gen mechanic. You can argue teambuilding and it doesn't counter the argument that Tera gives more variety to the tier and diversifies gameplay. And the Anti-ban side is more of the player base. More people would rather a generation be distinct but less balanced than more balanced but the same style as last gen.
Last edited:
Finally! Can't believe no one's been talking about Tera Ice TTar!
@ Weakness PolicyJolly Nature
Tera Type: Ice
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Tera Blast
- Dragon Dance
A Ttar for any occasion! HALVES your fighting weakness! ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES gliscor! TWO DIFFERENT DEFENSE BUFFS FOR DIFFERENT WEATHERS, for maximum sweep potential!
0- Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Ice Tyranitar: 99-117 (29 - 34.3%) -- 1.7% chance to 3HKO
The mighty landorus-I, thrice quickbanned, stands NO CHANCE AGAINST THIS BEAST
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ice Tyranitar: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The Lord of the Ocean shooting water with the force of a gun is no more than an inconvenience for the mighty Lord of the Kaiju!
Even Mr Damage Multipliers himself, striker of fear into the hearts of pink blobs, barely scratches the hide of this FEARSOME CREATURE!
It LAUGHS in the face of your puny super-effective attacks, consuming its WEAKNESS POLICY to go on a RAMPAGE!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Tera Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 660-780 (187.5 - 221.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
GLISCOR, WANTED #1, IS OHKO'D!!!!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Stone Edge vs.
Dondozo dies of mental damage!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Toxapex: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
The feared and hated mascot of Big Stall™ itself, TOXAPEX, ripped apart, preventing the evile Finchinator from banning it!
This isn't how tiering policy functions, we don't ban individual aspects of a mechanic because we don't like it. Even though some Tera Types in the current metagame are much better than others, the argument on the table is banning Tera as a mechanic, not Tera Fairy specifically, or Tera Flying specifically.
Hell i bet if we had a metagame with Tera Bug only Tera'd be totally fine actually!
Even if the 19th tera type is substantially better than others, there's no tiering precedent for banning that unique one.
> This isn't how tiering policy functions, we don't ban individual aspects of a mechanic because we don't like it.
It's used occasionally as a method to preserve a mechanic too popular to ban outright but that clearly needs a power down. If the options are complex ban to try to fix the issue or nothing at all because there is no way to get the votes required to ban it outright, then the complex ban is gonna win out every time.
See also: Drizzle + Swift Swim ban. The legions of complex Baton Pass bans. You notice the trend - none of those were particularly good ideas, rarely actually fixed the problem, and frequently got iterated on later. But they were the only way to get any restriction on the mechanic past the voters.
Yes it is a huge slippery slope and doesn't logically track frequently. It's a concession to reality. If the only viable options are 'complex ban the 19th type' or 'do nothing and let it run wild because people won't let go of tera', complex ban ho.
Also precedent is temporary. No single move had ever been banned before swagger was iirc.
It's used occasionally as a method to preserve a mechanic too popular to ban outright but that clearly needs a power down. If the options are complex ban to try to fix the issue or nothing at all because there is no way to get the votes required to ban it outright, then the complex ban is gonna win out every time.
See also: Drizzle + Swift Swim ban. The legions of complex Baton Pass bans. You notice the trend - none of those were particularly good ideas, rarely actually fixed the problem, and frequently got iterated on later. But they were the only way to get any restriction on the mechanic past the voters.
Yes it is a huge slippery slope and doesn't logically track frequently. It's a concession to reality. If the only viable options are 'complex ban the 19th type' or 'do nothing and let it run wild because people won't let go of tera', complex ban ho.
Also precedent is temporary. No single move had ever been banned before swagger was iirc.
Last edited:
this new tera type is radically different than any other though? pretty sure banning the DLC tera type seldom and banning like tera water are two entirely different things
Tera is in trouble and action is coming. We can ban 50 Pokémon and “balance” will still remain elusive. The mechanic is uncompetitive.
Precedent is overrated
Find the 7 differences
Bro, every time someone uses Tera Blast instead of a move with similar power of the same type a Pokemon naturally gets (in this case Ice Punch), a small kitten dies.Finally! Can't believe no one's been talking about Tera Ice TTar!
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Ice
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Tera Blast
- Dragon Dance
A Ttar for any occasion! HALVES your fighting weakness! ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES gliscor! TWO DIFFERENT DEFENSE BUFFS FOR DIFFERENT WEATHERS, for maximum sweep potential!
0- Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Ice Tyranitar: 99-117 (29 - 34.3%) -- 1.7% chance to 3HKO
The mighty landorus-I, thrice quickbanned, stands NO CHANCE AGAINST THIS BEAST
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ice Tyranitar: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The Lord of the Ocean shooting water with the force of a gun is no more than an inconvenience for the mighty Lord of the Kaiju!
Lvl 20252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ice Tyranitar in Sun: 100-120 (29.3 - 35.1%) -- 8% chance to 3HKO
Even Mr Damage Multipliers himself, striker of fear into the hearts of pink blobs, barely scratches the hide of this FEARSOME CREATURE!
It LAUGHS in the face of your puny super-effective attacks, consuming its WEAKNESS POLICY to go on a RAMPAGE!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Tera Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 660-780 (187.5 - 221.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
GLISCOR, WANTED #1, IS OHKO'D!!!!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Stone Edge vs.Lvl 10252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 984-1158 (1667.7 - 1962.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dondozo dies of mental damage!
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Toxapex: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
The feared and hated mascot of Big Stall™ itself, TOXAPEX, ripped apart, preventing the evile Finchinator from banning it!
if said kitten is purrloin im bringing out the tera blast toxapex
Damn what did purrlion do to you
tbf it was funny for a little while
breathe the same air as me
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
What even is the balance people are seeking? Less offense? Shit nearly EVERY ban was of a strong ass offensive threat, and yet we are no closer to this fountain of youth. Hell, the meta is so tuned to unga bunga (best bunga by far) that stall is a pipedream incorporating balance into its very mons, because fuck blissey is dead and clefable is having to put in work as a boltbeam machine.
I beseech thee, what is "balance" to you?
Technically there is precedent, there is an argument for not being able to Tera into the 19th type is similar to Rayquaza not being able to mega evolve in ORAS/USUM Ubers, instead of fully banning Rayquaza, Dragon Ascent, meaning that it's fine banning the ability to transform into the 19th type instead of banning Tera as a whole
counterpoint: Tera blast is funnier
it’ll be really funny if all this theorymonning about the 19th tera type happens and then it turns out to need terapagos on your team or something while it get an ubers statline
It's a bit different, because the clause effectively just bans the Pokemon Mega Rayquaza. It's fairly akin to OU banning a lot of mega evolutions to ubers
the ou bans were specifically items bans, which have history before then. Gengar wasn't disallowed from mega-evolving, Gengarite was banned. The Mray ban was completely separate. It wasn't a ban on the move Dragon's Ascent, it was very specifically a ban preventing Dragon's Ascent from Mega Evolving Mray.
Although I don't recommend using ubers bans as a useful base for anything. Shit is wack up there.
Although I don't recommend using ubers bans as a useful base for anything. Shit is wack up there.
- Status