CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 11b - Attacking Moves Poll

[Deck Knight]

I have hijacked Fuzznip and will now be taking over his duties. tennisace is the new ATL.

Our CAP so far:

Name: Perfect Mate

General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.

Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
• What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
• What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
• Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate

Typing: Fighting / Dark
Stat Spread: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 105 SpA / 80 SpD / 110 Spe
Abilities: Volt Absorb / Lightningrod
Name: Voodoom

This is a bold poll. Bold the options you want allowed in the final movepool and leave all other moves without formatting tags.

Controversial:

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Before he left Fuzznip had a few moves in the controversial column. I have decided to break them out into individual moves, and taken away Thunderpunch and Fire Punch, as all poll options should be considered Competitive moves, and both "Electric Attacks" and "Fire Attacks" have been disallowed competitvely. So basically "Elemental Punches" condenses to "Ice Punch." Even further and specific to this CAP, Bulk Up is a Type-Move requirement for Fighting type, and so physical attacks are likely to have significant use.

As in all poll threads, if you post anything other than your bolded selections please provide intelligent reasoning for it.

NO ONE is to write up a tally of the votes during the process. I will be monitoring for this.

This poll will be open for approximately 24 hours.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Ice Punch, no. We have Ice Beam, and if the opponent has Specially Defensive Zapdos then good for him. Ice Beam will force it to Roost, and if Togekiss can paralyze the Zapdos then it's already screwed.

Paleo Wave, no. We have Ice Beam, and the only thing it helps us on is Gyarados, and Strong STAB moves in addition to Stealth Rock make Paleo Wave unnecessary.

Sucker Punch, yes, barely. It gives us a pass against Starmie, who can get rid of the rocks that help Voodoom's (helped by Togekiss) "sweep" (yes, I know it's not a sweeper, but it is an attacker, so bear with me). I doubt Sucker Punch will be used on many Voodoom anyway...

Yes to SP, no to others.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Naxte]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Our CAP already has Ice Beam. Ice punch is sort-of an inferior, physical alternative to it. Even disregarding the flavour of giving a fighting-type pokemon one of the "punch" moves, ice punch makes good sense on our CAP who could use it to threaten specially-resistant Zapdos variations. (among other pokemon) and would still get walled pretty well by a bulky water.

Paleo wave makes no sense. Not only are we to be judicious with our assignment of custom attacks, but, having access to stone edge, paleo wave isn't necessary to do anything CAP11 can't already do.

Sucker punch I am "meh" about. I can take or leave it. It really doesn't give CAP11 any additional type coverage, so it isn't necessary, nor is it too powerful given what CAP11 has access to anyway. It provides a nice mix-up that trades some reliabilty for speed.

 

[doominic77]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[min min]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Yay to Sucker Punch, boo to all

 

[danmantincan]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[AlphaSpade]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[str1fe]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[IronTusk]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Scoopapa]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Starmie checks CAP11 and Togekiss only in a shaky manner - I don't think it will be a huge problem. While part of me really wants to try Bulk Up with Sucker Punch and Close Combat / Low Kick (and Ice Punch), part of me thinks that's a bad idea. I think the viability of physical sets may hinge on this move to a great degree, but I don't really think CAP11 needs an awesome physical set, or the ability to walk all over Starmie. It still has priority Vacuum Wave, anyway.

I don't think Ice Punch will do much for physical sets, since it just gives a weak, accurate alternative to Stone Edge.

 

[kjt]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Snunch]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Bughouse]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[FlareBlitz]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

My understanding is that if a move is underpowered/unnecessary, it should be Allowed. Only moves that are broken or take the concept in a direction we don't want should be Disallowed.
I basically voted for all three because none of them are broken. I think Ice Punch will be completely underwhelming and I don't see Paleo Wave getting much use since we have Ice Beam, so I think they're fine. Sucker Punch could certainly be useful, but Voodoom ends up with 4MSS issues and having to split EVs or run detrimental natures in order for it to be fully useful, so I think it's balanced in that regard.

 

[tawp64]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker punch

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[Thorns]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[NightShadow]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

 

[RandomUserXD]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

The only one I would consider allowing is Ice Punch.

Paleo Wave is unnecessary, why does Voodoom need access to another CAPs signature move? Just use Power Gem

Sucker Punch is bad since it allows Voodoom to deal with Gengar and Starmie effectively. There need to be counters to the Togekiss/Voodoom combination and the Base Speed of 110 was selected in order to make the core balanced. There is no point deliberately selecting the speed of a CAP to moderate it against 2 major threats if we are going to give it STAB Priority against these threats, both of which are
a) weak to Dark-Type moves and
b) rather lacking in the defensive department, particularly Gengar.

 

[petrie911]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

Ice Punch is pretty much outclassed by Ice Beam...no real reason to ban it. 75 BP unSTAB off 85 base attack is not horribly threatening.

Paleo Wave admittedly wouldn't be broken, but it's a signature move, which we're not supposed to allow without good reason. And there certainly isn't any good reason here.

Sucker Punch helps with revengers, I suppose, but Voodoom starts to run into 4MSS here. I don't think it needs to be disallowed.

 

[smallvizier]

Ice Punch
Paleo Wave
Sucker Punch

I don't want to see Sucker Punch anywhere near the final moveset... the speed tie and coinflip with Gengar was one of the key elements of the winning stat spread. However, I don't think it's actually broken, so it should be left up to the moveset designers.

On the other hand, Paleo Wave is a signature move, we don't need it, and it should be binned.

I'm ambivalent to Ice Punch, with Ice Beam already allowed. Do what you want with it.