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Reposting my thoughts cause of monkey trouble with thread shift
Really underwhelming tier shift this time around. Granbull hasn't been especially relevant since the Sneasel/Gallade meta and Pinsir has never been a metagame-defining force in ORAS. Good mons, but I can't see their absence really shaking things up. I'm glad the meta's been stable for so long, but personally I'm burnt out on this incarnation of it. Hoping to see some more interesting shifts next time.
The NU/PU stuff I'm not too focused on, but it does mean one thing:
Now that PU is an official tier, we can have an official collection of Ambipoms! If the PU community wants Muk and Pals they'll have to take them from our cold, dead ELOs :^)
How come Granbull moved to RU?
Also, the only Pinsir left NU is because Mega Pinsir rose in usage in OU.
I think they should take account to the Pokemon's usage in a tier in which it doesn't carry a Mega Stone.
How come Granbull moved to RU?
Also, the only Pinsir left NU is because Mega Pinsir rose in usage in OU.
I think they should take account to the Pokemon's usage in a tier in which it doesn't carry a Mega Stone.
To be honest, I don't think the shifts will change the meta too much. Fighting types have one less solid check, but granbull wasn't used too much anyway. Relevant checks such as vileplume, weezing etc. are still available, so they might rise in usage a little. Apart from this, I can't see the meta changing much this time round.
Seeing as Granbull is gone is there even any merit to run Poison Jab on Sawk? Every other fairy left in the tier except the NFEs are hit harder by CC. If that frees up a slot Sawk can probly run something like Stone Edge or I/T Punch to snipe flying types, or Taunt to break stall even harder than it already does etc.
1. Tauros - It's an amazing offensive cleaner, stupid great speed tier, has some serious power. That said, most defensive teams have multiple checks to it, super bulky mons like MegaAudino, Rhydon, and Regirock run rampant and shut it down, Sash/Sturdy holders like Sawk and Jynx are everywhere, and every team has at least 2-3 priority mons. Tauros is a great mon but definitely not as amazing as people hype it to be. Also unless you run secret power you will miss 7/10 times.
2. Pyroar - Never really like it as a mon. Weird typing gives it a lot of switchins, easily revengeable, tbh it's kinda strong but i've never used it to get >2kills nor have I lost more than a mon in a game to it.
idk theres a lot of other overrated stuff like kabu and ferro and underrated stuff like vanilla and maw and aurorus but wtv idc those two are big offenders in my eyes
Yeah, the meta isn't really changing this time around. Fighting types lost one check, but we already have lots of them like Weezing and Clefairy. (Clefairy tho) The thing is Granbull was good, but not too great, and Pinsir wasn't too good anyways. So yeah, the meta might change with Poison types getting more usage, but really, it's nothing too big.
Sawk is reminding me a lot of gallade, except now it has 0 switch-ins even on defensive teams. Iirc that's the main reason why gallade was voted to be banned (I think another reason was synergy with sneasel but there were ways of dealing with that). Anyways, I do think it's a little overwhelming for defensive teams now and should be tested for the same reason as gallade.
Literally nothing's changed for Sawk...Granbull was something like the #56 used in the tier or some shit, if that was the only thing holding Sawk back from being broken then what were you running before? Shit like Plume, Weezing and Garbodor haven't gone anywhere. It's also not difficult to beat Sawk offensively, it's somewhat slow for what it does.
But I guess if you only run slow, bulky teams I can see how Sawk shits on your play style and you'd want it gone.
Yeah those are nice options but then the Sawk moveset changes and runs Zen Headbutt which does a number to all straight poison types while still hitting the Plume. I think an issues is easily picks its checks.
252 Atk Choice Band Sawk Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 204-242 (57.7 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Weezing still is 2hko'd while Sawk is on Jolly, not even adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Sawk Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 162-192 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
You can run colbur gourgeist or musharna or clefairy. You can scout its choice locked moves with protect on your walls. You can pivot around it. You can revenge it or kill it with priority.
You can run colbur gourgeist or musharna or clefairy. You can scout its choice locked moves with protect on your walls. You can pivot around it. You can revenge it or kill it with priority.
I agree with this completly. Sawk is extreamly good and definitely the best wall breaker we have.
But the things that are used to check it are things you will run with it being gone because gurdurr and primape would take over its roll to a lesser degree.
Sawk is honestly just an amazing mon that we have to play smart against. I would personally be against a suspect but if enough ppl are for it then so be it n_n
and don't name me 'mons that only beat it in 1v1 scenarios where they are both at full, or passive piece of shits like cradily that loses to Iron Tail anyway lol. Tauros crushes opponents as much as Omfuga gets exotic sexy women!
I've never been impressed by Tauros, it's definitely a threat but I never thought it as one of the best mons in the tier. It's not that good at wall breaking and I just prefer other cleaners, likely because I prefer to hit weaknesses rather than spam a normal attack that can miss and has access to priority.
I agree with Brawlfest on Pyroar being overrated. I talked about why it should drop in the Viability Ranking thread, so check that out if you're interested.
The most overrated thing in NU though is balance. Prior to Spikes offense's brief hayday and ever since Typhlosion left the tier, balance has been without question the most common archetype in the tier, and within the last month or two, it has become increasingly difficult for me to understand why. Passive Pokemon are so miserable to have in a tier with so many stupidly powerful offensive threats that can make so much out of even just one free turn. This is why I used pivot balance became so popular during Sneasel meta. You couldn't really afford losing something to Sneasel's Pursuit, but more importantly, you couldn't risk giving up a free turn with your defensive Pokemon when Gallade, Sneasel, Magmortar, Haunter, Barbaracle, Electivire, etc. could do so much in that short time. People feel much more free to use slower offensive Pokemon and more passive defensive Pokemon because you don't have to worry about Sneasel fucking your day over and defensive Mawile and Xatu have fallen heavily out of favor. But the amount of Pokemon that can exploit a single free turn hasn't changed at all. On top of the aforementioned Pokemon but excluding Sneasel, Gallade, and Electivire (now that Rhydon has become common again), you also have to worry about Vivillon, Shiftry, Tauros, etc. Well-built balance teams can still check everything thanks to being able to adapt quickly, but stall has evaporated, which means offense has little to worry about now barring Kangaskhan really.
Basically, as the meta shifts more towards balance, balance becomes worse. Staying ahead of the meta (at tempostorm.com) with offense is the easiest way to do well in this meta, yet I still almost never see offensive teams because people are so stuck into using balance.
I just wanna use my fat mons :(
But seriously, stall is basically unviable to ladder with atm because you can't tick every box and still be able to check everything. The closest I've got to a decent stall team rn is: Grumpig/Ferroseed/Quagsire/Skuntank/Mega Audino/Rotom and even that still has it's glaring weaknesses. Like what hollywood said, offense is the much better playstyle atm, but even then, there's still only so much you can build before the same 15-20 (max) mons just become the arbitrary starting points and it comes down to who can innovate to stay ahead. The Nu meta right now doesn't feel very new user friendly because of this constant need to stay ahead (unless you use kangaspikes and then you're fine regardless of the meta) and falling behind just slightly can be a huge setback.
I still enjoy nu atm, don't get me wrong, it just seems like there's a lot more work needed to stay on top
So yeah Offense is definetly the most effective playstyle in NU at the moment, so I just wanted to talk about a big part of most of my offensive teams, which are leads. I feel dedicated leads are sort of making a resurgance in this current meta for offense since it is very easy to abuse these sort of leads on offensive teams. On my offensive teams there have been two kinds of leads I have really been using, Sleepers and Hazard Setters. I'll go more in depth on a few of them I have been using and the sets I've been using.
**sleeper
So Vivillon has been getting a lot of Hype in the past few weeks, and all for the right reasons. It's one of the best offensively oriented pokemon in the current meta due to its great offensive typing and coverage and support moves. On the offensive side, Hurricane / Energy Ball is amazing coverage since most teams only have Rhydon or Lanturn as the only Flying resists on teams, and Energy Ball does a ton to both of them. In the current meta many teams have been consistently unprepared for. Once it sets up a Quiver Dance, which is not very hard with the Combination of Sleep Powder + Sash, it is able to punch huge holes in the opposing teams, as the only things that can really stop it are Priority once its Sash has been broken, Fast Choice Scarfers like Rotom, and sleep absorbers like Mega Audino. Overall Vivillon has had a huge impact on this meta and is one of the best sleep leads on offense.
So Jynx is the other common sleep lead in the tier, and it plays similar roles to Vivillon. The set I believe is best in the meta right now is sash Focus Blast, since you maintain the use of Sash against faster threats like Scyther, but also have the ability to hit Steel-types extremely hard. Jynx has been around for a while, and people are still sleeping on it even though its absolutely amazing in this meta. While it doesn't have the set up ability to run through teams like Vivillon, unless you run Nasty Plot, it plays a much more wall breaker like role with the ability to heavily damage teams. It has the ability to cripple at least two mons on the opposing team by putting something to sleep then heavily denting the switch in after that.
Crustle is one of the few Hazard Setters in NU with access to Stealth Rock and Spikes, and it also has access to sturdy which makes it an amazing hazard lead. A lot of teams don't really have way's to prevent Crustle from getting hazards up in this meta, and it can effectively get hazards up against most other teams from turn 1. The only real pokemon that stop Crustle from getting up hazards are Sleep users that put Crustle to sleep before it can set up any hazards. Either than that Crustle is free to get up rocks and spikes from turn 1 with little to no consequence which makes it a great lead from my experience.
Crustle @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
**hazard setter and sleeper
Sash Roselia was a set I believe I saw hollywood talking about first, and ever since then its become one of my favorite leads on offense. This set is extremely effective at getting hazards up, and its generally not counter led like some of the other leads I've mentioned since this set is very uncommon. This set is also effective at getting up hazards early game, and maybe even easier job than others since it also has access to Sleep Powder.
I just included Frogadier since I've been having a lot of fun using it and it's pretty effective at grabbing momentum and getting up Toxic Spikes. Frogadier is definitely something I would not recommend for any old team, but it's still pretty none the less. It's speed tier is great for a lead since it can just out speed othe common offensive leads and just U-Turn to break sashes or just get up a layer of toxic spikes or attack. I've also included a pastebin with teams built around each mon so if you wanted to try out Frogadier for yourself check out the team I made.
I haven't used Sash Roselia in ages, but it's so much fun. I used it a lot when Xatu was popular because it 2HKO'd most of the time with Sludge Bomb, which is sick.
I agree that sleepers are really really good. Vivillon has been really good for a while, and Sash Jynx is a great way for offense to check opposing offense without sacrificing your matchup against balance.
I think stall will come back into favor more if the metagame ever makes the shift towards offense that it deserves, but realistically, it all comes down to what is being used and not what I feel *should* be used. If people continue to spam balance with stupidly strong breakers like Magmortar and Sawk, it's going to be hard for stall to make that comeback, but if the day comes that people focus more on out-offensing each other rather than covering everything, offensive teams will sacrifice power for the advantage in Speed, priority, and opportunity (creating free turns in the teambuilder with Sash Pokemon, sleepers, Memento, etc.) and stall can exist again in its old well-rounded state rather than picking which Pokemon you're ok with auto-losing against.
