I think if you're able to effectively use Linoone, you'd be able to do just fine with just about any other set up sweeper. We certainly have a bunch of potent ones (Viv, SD Samu, Lilli, etc.) Linoone is definitely interesting, and I do think it's gotten better within the past month or two. Normal spam in general is great at the moment. I'd be pretty happy to see a normal spam team featuring Linoone where it breaks a few common normal type switch ins to make way for something like Zangoose/Swellow to clean up. I've been running it quite a bit and it's pretty fun, but I do feel like I'm making my job harder by using it. I rather use something else. With all the ways to generate free turns essentially, you have a ton of sweepers you can choose from. A Linoone sweeper is super all or nothing, and if you build your team around it and your plan fails then you're really left with nothing, where as stuff like I posted above you can splash them pretty easily and still have plenty of room to prepare for things going wrong.
I disagree with the main sentements of this post. What makes Linoone scary to anyone who has played it isnt the fact its a "scary settup sweeper" but infact, its instawin capability. Technically, Belly Drum + Extreme Speed is the most efficient
Cleaning Mechanism possible in Pokemon, since if you get a free Turn, you are gonna hit something with a +6 Extreme Speed at the very least. It also has the capability to break normal checks with Seed Bomb (for like Rhydon) and Shadow Claw (for assorted Ghost Types), but in these scenario, Linoone shouldnt be breaking for Swellow or Zangoose to "clean up". You can use this mechanic in effect as a wallbreaker, but generally, its much more efficient to keep Linoone around, and try and get it in for a free switch, and attempt to settup a +6 ESpeed after Zangoose and Swellow in the scenario you've mentioned, have broken walls for it. Linoone isnt comparable to the likes of Vivillion, SD Samurott and Lilligant since those assorted pokemon can be checked by Pokemon that dont resist their respective coverage move. For Example, Vivillion can be checked by Magmortar after an QD, Samurott can be checked by a plethora of Physical Walls such as Weezing / Garbodor / Quagsire none of which resist its stab + main coverage in Megahorn, and Lilligant by the likes of Miltank (although that can be considered a resist because of ability.) If you dont happen to carry a proper normal resist such as Klinklang, Rotom and Mismagius which can take on Linoone admirably or a one time check such as Gurdurr at no less than 100% HP, Linoone will sweep through your team, simply because +6 ESpeed is that difficult to refute. This is why i hold this sentiment to keep it towards the late game, because these one time checks like Gurdurr can have damage put on them, and "counters" like Klinklang can have similar done to them. The end result, should you find the settup oppurtuinity and have weakened these limited one time checks enough is a guranteed win, the only way you can revenge kill it is by sacking a mon, then using fake out, then sacking a mon, you get the idea.
tl;dr; dont reference Linoone as a wallbreaker for OTHER normal mons to sweep, when it has the best "cleaning" moveset you could possibly hope for. It triggered this post
After that rant, i guess i should voice my own opinions on Linoone. I was heavily involved in PU when Linoone was suspected and when i was playing PU at that moment, it really struck me how freaking deadly this mon is. It was incredible to see the same teams built by the same good players just be blown back by one pokemon and after its ban, my attention on it immediately shifted to how it could perform in an NU meta. I settup the team in the same way i did in PU, give Linoone a normal type to work with and help break down Linoones own checks, gave them screens, gave an offensive stealth rock setter as well as several other NU meta threats and mesh them together with some memento support. I didnt have very high hopes for the team itself, but results surprised me, alot. Linoone was extremely capable as a cleaner. At +6, it savaged common Balance Builds as well as the more common Offensive Builds. Part of what made Linoone so great in PU was the lack of bulky one time checks PU had to it, and the offense teams would just drop to it should you not carry an extremely niche counter. I saw some of that when i used it in NU. Common Offensive teams stood absolutely no chance (unless they carried Mismagius or Rotom and kept it healthy despite my best efforts throughout the match) and balance teams didnt often carry an offensive Normal Resist such as the afformentioned Pokemon. They instead relied on Rhydon and possibly Gurdurr to make out as their Linoone checks. Despite these overwhelming + points and advantages on paper, Linoone isnt suspect worthy for a few reasons.
- Its so freaking hard to set it up to +6, some games its not even worth trying. My biggest gripe with the mon, by the time you've wasted two mons getting memento + screen support, and not cleaned with Linoone, your down to essentially 3 mons to win you the rest of the game. This is all fine and irrelevant if your opponent isnt running a Linoone check, however, if he is, and plays it well enough, you are boned lol. Because of all this support required, you are putting all of your eggs in one Linoone shaped basket. If it fails, most likely, so will you.
- Deadweight without appropriate screens / memento support. This kinda ties in with the above point. If you arent running screens or memento, its almost playing with 5 mons. Its so weak before Belly Drum and so frail all the time an extremely effective tactic is to just sack whatever it can settup on, and whenever it comes in, stay in, and kill it with appropriate move. Its how i found myself beating most Linoone based teams (With no Screens) and how i was losing with a Linoone team, without screen support to back it up. It just doesnt get the oppurtuinites like other mons, and because there is no initial threat from Linoone, its extremely easy to stop in its tracks. I found myself wanting Kanga / Tauros more often than not, if i wasnt using screens
- Final Point; its too matchup based. Yay! You've successfully belly drumed on something and are now at 50% HP with a +6 Linoone behind screens, now what? Linoone should clean at this point if you look at the effort spent to get it an oppurtuinity to settup, alas, it is to be scuppered by a plethora of One Time Checks like Kabutops, Klinklang, Gurdurr, Rotom or Mismagius, Fake Out Shenanigans by the likes of Kanga / Hariyama or just full on counters, which beat you one on one, such as Ferroseed carrying Gyro Ball. All of this makes Linoone so much less consistent than it was in PU, and as a result, a completely different animal in NU.
In conclusion, Yes, Linoone is definately not worth the bother of suspecting. Its matchup based, relatively easy to stop, has a plethora of OK checks you can run. But; and this is a huge BUT. Its still capable of cleaning teams outright should they not be carrying a way to stop it. It reminds me a lot of XY NU Slurpuff in the fact that, once its settup, you NEED a steel type to stop it. No steel type? No bueno, you get swept boy 9/10 times. The same applies to Linoone, no espeed resist? Sayonnara Sucker! In general, not enough people are bothering to run this crutch espeed resist because of how rare Linoone is.
Overall, its definately definately underappreciated. A huge sleeper mon in NU at the minute and should definately be given more credit than it currently is. Its as close to "an autowin" we are ever gonna get, sure it needs support, but that autowin bd + espeed combo is really not something to ignore.
