R + M = T

[the pugilist]

Hello all.

This is team I made after experimenting with the changes made in Platinum. The team has been fairly successful although I think some further improvements need to be made, particulary in the offensive department. Thanks in advance for all comments, suggestions and critique.

Team at a glance​

Deoxys-e @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/174 Def/84 Spd
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Recover


Nifty lead that sets up residual damage for my team. I have more offensive problems than defensive issues, so Spikes and SR are more benefcial than the screens. The EVs allow me to outspeed Timid Electrode while still giving Deoxys a decent amount of bulk. Recover allows Deoxys to stay alive for a longer period of time to help ensure I get my spikes on the field. This set is a tweaking of one of chaos 9's old sets.

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Shaymin-s @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The revenge killer of the team and lategame cleaner. Choice Scarf gives Skymin the ability to outspeed a large majority of the late game threats. I already outrun Timid Scarfgar even with modest, as I prefer the extra kick Modest gives me as opposed to the largely useless speed. Also deals out threatening grass attack to water types that would wall the next pokemon...
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Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/96 Atk/80 Def/20 Spd/60 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Restalker and status asorber. Allows me an answer to popular offensive threats such as Scizor, Mamoswine and Lucario (Most Lucario lack T Punch due to poor coverage and Rotom H can handle those anyway) as well as being my main Blissey answer and a dominat physical attacker. Has worked quite well I must say.
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Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/76 Def/180 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Sleep Talk

Works as an anti psinner to prevent all of Deoxy's hard work from being spun away. WOW prevents Band Tar from getting a free switch in. Restalk keeps it alive longer which allows to combat enemy Yanemga, Zapdoses etc easier---

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 176 HP/100 Atk/56 Spd/176 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Quick Attack
- Roost

Trapper Scizor. Mainly to deal with the pesky psychic and ghost types roaming around in today's metagame - Gengar and Offensive Deoxys E flees to avoid Bullet Punch but instead gets one shotted by Pursuit while Cresselia and Celebi generally hate fighting Scizor in general. Celebi in particular walls Gyarados comfortably and this Scizor set is desgined to remove the little pixie. Quick Attack allows Scizor to take out injured threats that would resist Bullet Punch such as Infernape and Gyarados. Considering LO to ensure an OHKO on fleeing Celebi although I hate the recoil on a defensive pokemon
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Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Roar

Donphan is useful as a utility role in this squad - he provides spin support to remove rocks that would otherwise happen my main attackers (Gyarados and Skymin), Ice Shard serves as a way to inflict decent damage upon the ever popular Skymin and Salamence, Rock resistance and Electric immunity is always useful while Roar gives me a way to deal with random Baton Passers (Hi Ninjask). Fairly useful all around.
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Enjoy Smogon!​

 

[Corrupted]

Awesome team. Seriously, I´ve been staring at it for the past 10 minutes, and I couldn´t spot any problems.
Try RestTalk Rotom with WoW and TBolt, as he is worn down quickly without wish support.
Roar > Dragon Dance on Gyara for more spikes abuse could be cool. Especialy because Gyara and Donphan cover eachothers weaknesses.
I don't think you are benefitting from all that speed on Deoxys, other than making Zong's Gyro Balls hurt more, just split it into the defences. Also don't see why you should stay in on scarfgar when you are using that Scizor

 

[the pugilist]

Awesome team. Seriously, I´ve been staring at it for the past 10 minutes, and I couldn´t spot any problems.
Try RestTalk Rotom with WoW and TBolt, as he is worn down quickly without wish support.
Roar > Dragon Dance on Gyara for more spikes abuse could be cool. Especialy because Gyara and Donphan cover eachothers weaknesses.
I don't think you are benefitting from all that speed on Deoxys, other than making Zong's Gyro Balls hurt more, just split it into the defences. Also don't see why you should stay in on scarfgar when you are using that Scizor

Restalk Rotom is definatly a good idea except I'm not particulary liking the idea of two restalkers in the same team. However, I'lll definatly test Restalk Rotom. Onto Gyarados, I honestly prefer DD since it gives the team some needed power. I agree with you about Deoxys though, I'll revert a bulkier spread.

 

[twash]

Okay, there is quite a few problems :(

The first is that Gyarados does serious damage to your team. Rotom takes 70.39% - 83.22% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and it has no recovery move, so could get worn down very quickly. Deoxys-S can do simply nothing, and Scizor can do nothing either. Donphan takes 89.58% - 106.25% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and can only Roar back. This leaves Shaymin-S, but it has no recovery, is hampered by Stealth Rock, is defensively weak, and Seed Flare only has 85% accuracy, and Air Slash 95%. I wouldn't really say it is safe - as soon as Shaymin-S is taken out, you are going to get swept.

You too also have a Rotom-H weakness, which can beat a lot of your team.

I feel making Deoxys-S into the "counter" set, with Timid; 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe, with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic and Recover. Recover would help you rinse and repeat, Thunderbolt for Gyarados, and Ice Beam for Salamence and Dragonite, while Psychic hits Infernape (who also gives you problems), and the Rotom's.

 

[Venom]

Not much of a rate, but why not try Discharge / Overheat / Shadow Ball / Reflect on Rotom? I don't really like the idea of 2 Fire moves on Rotom since Heatran is the number one switch in to Rotom, Rotom-O in particular and Reflect can help you take blows better and Discharge to paralyze incoming Heatran which fucks them over since most of them are scarfed now and possibly help you out against Gyarados waterfalls and hit him back with Discharge, since you don't have enough coverage at all for him, just a suggestion. It's real nice you made a good use of Donphan, big props for that.

 

[Corrupted]

Okay, there is quite a few problems :(

The first is that Gyarados does serious damage to your team. Rotom takes 70.39% - 83.22% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and it has no recovery move, so could get worn down very quickly. Deoxys-S can do simply nothing, and Scizor can do nothing either. Donphan takes 89.58% - 106.25% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and can only Roar back. This leaves Shaymin-S, but it has no recovery, is hampered by Stealth Rock, is defensively weak, and Seed Flare only has 85% accuracy, and Air Slash 95%. I wouldn't really say it is safe - as soon as Shaymin-S is taken out, you are going to get swept.

You too also have a Rotom-H weakness, which can beat a lot of your team.

I feel making Deoxys-S into the "counter" set, with Timid; 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe, with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic and Recover. Recover would help you rinse and repeat, Thunderbolt for Gyarados, and Ice Beam for Salamence and Dragonite, while Psychic hits Infernape (who also gives you problems), and the Rotom's.

Rotom is a excelent Gyarados counter, however the set could be beefed up a bit on the physical side. Spikes and Stealth Rock are part of his strategy, and that Deoxys makes a pretty shitty lead. Vaporeon with Surf+Ice Beam could go over Gyara for wish support for Donphan. And Rotom could be the new RestTalker.

 

[twash]

That Rotom isn't reliable enough, period. With no DDs LO Gyarados does 47.37% - 55.59% to that Rotom, a 2HKO with Stealth Rock. It really, does not counter it that well.

Sure he could make it more beefy, but the best way would be RestTalk, and that isn't great reliability wise. The Deoxys-S would be the best way out.

 

[Corrupted]

That Rotom isn't reliable enough, period. With no DDs LO Gyarados does 47.37% - 55.59% to that Rotom, a 2HKO with Stealth Rock. It really, does not counter it that well.

Sure he could make it more beefy, but the best way would be RestTalk, and that isn't great reliability wise. The Deoxys-S would be the best way out.

Thunderbolt and WoW both mess Gyara up.

I don´t think any special defence is needed on Rotom tbh, just go max/max for handling Gyara better.

 

[Doma Orichalcos]

You're Rotom-h is indeed well capable of messing up walls. I'm sure you have no problems with Metagross, for example.

 

[DDyarados]

I love this team. O_O

Uses gyara and scizor, two pokes I love haha.

Nah but seriously, it hasgreat synergy and you definetly put a lot of thought into the strategy of the team. I personally love how scizor is not the standard SD LO bullet punch one, and how it traps and kills dangerous counters to your teams. I love gyara's set too.

Very nice team.

 

[the pugilist]

Okay, there is quite a few problems :(

k

The first is that Gyarados does serious damage to your team. Rotom takes 70.39% - 83.22% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and it has no recovery move, so could get worn down very quickly. Deoxys-S can do simply nothing, and Scizor can do nothing either. Donphan takes 89.58% - 106.25% from a +1 Life Orb Waterfall, and can only Roar back. This leaves Shaymin-S, but it has no recovery, is hampered by Stealth Rock, is defensively weak, and Seed Flare only has 85% accuracy, and Air Slash 95%. I wouldn't really say it is safe - as soon as Shaymin-S is taken out, you are going to get swept.

Eh, I do agree that if all my answers to Gyarados die I get swept but that could be said about all threats on today's metagame. I've never been swept by a Gyarados before, even if Rotom has been taken out.

You too also have a Rotom-H weakness, which can beat a lot of your team.

Not just Rotom -H but all the Rotoms give me trouble - alot more than Gyarados

I feel making Deoxys-S into the "counter" set, with Timid; 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe, with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic and Recover. Recover would help you rinse and repeat, Thunderbolt for Gyarados, and Ice Beam for Salamence and Dragonite, while Psychic hits Infernape (who also gives you problems), and the Rotom's.

Infernape is a non issue - Gyarados can come in on a predicted flamethrower and OHKO with Waterfall. Skymin can also revenge kill Infernape. Deoxys can't switch into Infernape either, so it's pretty much a revenge killer which is uneeded as I already have one in Skymin. The lack of SR and Spikes also really hurt this team if I change Deoxys. Also that Deoxys isn't much of a threat to Rotom who can just asorb Deoxy's assaults and KO with Shdaow Ball.

Not much of a rate, but why not try Discharge / Overheat / Shadow Ball / Reflect on Rotom? I don't really like the idea of 2 Fire moves on Rotom since Heatran is the number one switch in to Rotom, Rotom-O in particular and Reflect can help you take blows better and Discharge to paralyze incoming Heatran which fucks them over since most of them are scarfed now and possibly help you out against Gyarados waterfalls and hit him back with Discharge, since you don't have enough coverage at all for him, just a suggestion. It's real nice you made a good use of Donphan, big props for that.

I'll give Discharge to Rotom, athough I'm not sure I like the idea of losing Will O Wisp because I'm scared stiff of CB Tar coming in freely and pursuiting Rotom. And yeah, Donpahn is pretty useful in Platinum =D!

Thunderbolt and WoW both mess Gyara up.

I don´t think any special defence is needed on Rotom tbh, just go max/max for handling Gyara better.

I use the special defence as I often switch Rotom into Swampert and Zapdos, Zapdos especially can be a real pain to take down so the special defence is very handy there.

You're Rotom-h is indeed well capable of messing up walls. I'm sure you have no problems with Metagross, for example.

Yep, Metagross is no problem for this team.

I love this team. O_O

Uses gyara and scizor, two pokes I love haha.

Nah but seriously, it hasgreat synergy and you definetly put a lot of thought into the strategy of the team. I personally love how scizor is not the standard SD LO bullet punch one, and how it traps and kills dangerous counters to your teams. I love gyara's set too.

Very nice team.

Thanks!

Thanks for the rates everyone!

 

[twash]

You have to predict Infernape, if you come in on consecutive Grass Knots + SR, your going to be in trouble. And that Deoxys-S is a counter to Infernape, being able to then Recover the damage.

 

[Colonel M]

Okay so allow me to attempt to look at this team and post some suggestions.

First off I think you need to consider Bullet Punch on Scizor. I find what makes some trapper's threatening is if they carry Pursuit and a priority move and Bullet Punch definately makes Scizor that more of a trapper. It gives a second chance against an already-raging Salamence and helps beat down Mamoswine, Weavile, and do decent damage to Shaymin-S. I'd just simply consider this over Light Screen.

I'm not sure about Scarf Shaymin-S in general. I mean when you think about it who else are you really outspeeding? Just Scarf Gengar and Scarf Heatran really. You could always use Substitute as preventing a free switch-in is something that I like with Shaymin-S. I simply prefer versatility especially when it comes down to needing a combination of Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power to put a beatdown on teams. I'd also think about SubSeed instead but I think Choice Scarf is the greatest idea...

I can't add much more. It seems like a good team otherwise.

 

[Rag]

I would've uses some more special defence on Gyarados, as it's your primarily switch-in on both Heatran and Infernape. They're both quite powerful, and allowing Gyarados to take on them both more effective can't possibly hurt. :)

Substitute on Skymin may be a cool, maybe even in conjuction with Leech Seed (and obviously not Choice Scarf). It forces a lot of switches, and that's just gold with Spikes and Stealth Rock on the field. Just an interesting idea though, but it's worth a try, especially considering you got yourself some solid counters to the likes of Gyarados, Gengar and Heatran. Personally I don't think it's too much left to outrun, but I guess that's just me.

That's all I got for now. Seems pretty solid. :D

 

[the pugilist]

BUMP, made some slight changes.

Also Scarfmin is quite effective as it allows me to nab some surprise kills against opposig revenge killers such as ScarfTran and Deoxys. Pretty useful as a last resort.

 

[Tangerine]

I'll give Discharge to Rotom, athough I'm not sure I like the idea of losing Will O Wisp because I'm scared stiff of CB Tar coming in freely and pursuiting Rotom. And yeah, Donpahn is pretty useful in Platinum =D!

I'd at least consider running Venom's set - Reflect still stops that TTar from KOing with pursuit. Or at least if you're sticking with your set, you can consider running the other forms, the grass or the Water, to give TTar a second thought about switching in. (The only reason you'd run a certain form, at least, is for their form unique moves - and Leaf Storm and Hydro Pump means that "fuck off TTar"). This is really miniscule but hey mind games are a part of the game too.

Curious what's going to happen when you face opposing Deoxys Es - considering they will likely outspeed yours and Taunt you first. I would recommend switching in Donphan Right away then or something. Also considering Deoxys E's being put to complete waste - consider running an attack over Recover - so you can actually "revenge kill"

Since this looks like somewhat of a stall Team (or at least "bulky offense" but I hate that term), I'll concentrate on Two Pokemon that has the most potential to "break your stall", which is of course Suicune and Zapdos. Suicune can take away your only real offense in your team, since the LO Max SpA/Speed Variants will live through that Seed Flare after their CM and (unless you get two layers down - but you shouldn't always rely on that, then you have a *chance* to KO) KO Skymin which can be a bitch, not to mention Sub Suicune who can pose your team problems (but not all of them at the same time considering if it runs HP Elec or Ice Beam but it still has the opportunity to screw you pretty bad)

Zapdos is a much stronger threat than Suicune though, considering even the standard sub stall set can present you with interesting problems, even with HP Ice/Thunderbolt. Rotom is going to be heftily used against Zapdos - (Heatwave is a 3hko so you need to watch out when facing Zapdos). This is actually one argument for "keeping WoW on Rotom" so consider that point too since WoW lets you beat Offensive Zapdos eventually. Speaking of boltbeam, Offensive Starmie can also pose some huge issues considering Offensive Starmie can beat Scizor with relative ease or even Bulky Starmie with Reflect - mostly because of the Life Orb recoil anyway. (This means always U Turn against Starmie and such)

I'm not sure what's the pointing of trapping Gengar and Starmie and Celebi and such with Scizor when there are bigger fish to worry about for Gyarados to sweep (namely... Vaporeon, and Bulky Waters in General - Scizor aint' going to win and Gyarados is going to be scared leaving it up to Rotom - and considering Rotom is the only thing stopping things from getting a full blown out sweep... uh oh). Scizor seems to do the least for your team - especially in terms of "stall" anyway. What I would like to do is replace Gyarados with Vaporeon

1) Rotom already absorbs status if you dont choose to go with Venom's set
2) Bulky Waters are a bitch and vaporeon is comfortable walling them and can phaze away retard Suicunes and phaze in general
3) Wish Support for Skymin, making Rapid Spin less essential (since Vappy isn't that SR weak anyway, unless you're afraid of toxic spikes or something but for some reason they seem to be less common, but you can run a toxic spikes absorb in that last slot instead or something like a nidoqueen that gives you protection against Heracross/Lucario to make up for your loss of Gyarados switch in... although Zapdos is still a giant pain)
4) Gyarados Counter, Infernape Counter.

Of course you lose your main "offense" now, but I believe Scizor can take that place with the standard SD set because

1) Gengar with TBolt is a huge rarity nowadays so Vappy can take it, but I never really had problems with Gengar by using offensive Scizor with some SpDef invested.
2) Scizor can take a Surf (or switch over to Vappy) from Starmie and such and KO it back, and be confident in doing so with the Wish Support. Starmie can actually beat your Scizor *anyway* if you decide to predict and use Pursuit and the Bulky Sets sort of say "fuck you" and with life orb recoil you're not really stopping Starmie.
3) Skymin is a good switch into Celebi.. as long as it doesnt run Twave or HP Fire/Ice. But you dont have to worry about Celebi anymore, Gyarados isn't sweeping.
4) Skymin isn't going to be switching into those Trick Pokemon forever considering Skymin is "enemy number two" after Scizor. With max Attack, Scizor can actually make... somewhat of a decent use of that Scarf just in case Skymin meets a premature death or switches into the "wrong move" (when other wise Trick kills you anyway)

Of course, I have only mentioned certain things that "could" threaten your team and not much else mostly because this really feels like a team I should try out before rating but instead I am giving you a "theorymon rate" especially since I'm very inexperience in this "stall" sort of team (this is what it feels like to me anyway) so feel free to call me on my "bullshit" considering these are just my thoughts on the team after staring at it. I'd recommend you playing with your team and if they do have the same issues I point out then I'd consider my changes, otherwise I'd just call bullshit tbh