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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Inb4 it never sees any Ubers use like most of the other banned OU mons... so sad, part of me hopes waterpon finds its way to a ban so it can keep it company
Just a reminder
Hearthflame Ogerpon
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 370-436 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Zacian-C post nerf
+1 252 Atk Tera Steel Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Zacian-C if it didn’t get nerfed
+1 252 Atk Tera Steel Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tera Fairy Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 360-424 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Yeah Ogerpon is fucking ridiculous.
Also keep in mind that with Intrepid Sword, you only get that boost once per battle. So if Zacian is forced out Wellspring and Cornerstone are both stronger than Zacian in terms of fire power. Also keep in mind the comparison is with Ivy Cudgel, when Ogerpon still gets STAB 120 BP moves to abuse as well.
Yeah I know power isn’t everything and Ogerpon has its problems, but let it be known that x1.2 bonus really matters.
Hearthflame Ogerpon
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 370-436 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Zacian-C post nerf
+1 252 Atk Tera Steel Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Zacian-C if it didn’t get nerfed
+1 252 Atk Tera Steel Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tera Fairy Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 360-424 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Yeah Ogerpon is fucking ridiculous.
Also keep in mind that with Intrepid Sword, you only get that boost once per battle. So if Zacian is forced out Wellspring and Cornerstone are both stronger than Zacian in terms of fire power. Also keep in mind the comparison is with Ivy Cudgel, when Ogerpon still gets STAB 120 BP moves to abuse as well.
Yeah I know power isn’t everything and Ogerpon has its problems, but let it be known that x1.2 bonus really matters.
People have been saying Chomp will drop since Home dropped and it hasn't happened. Now in DLC1 chomp has Scale Shot again for SD sets.
It ain't happening. Chomp is just too versatile, when one set loses steam it can just swap to a new set. TankChomp, SD Chomp, and ChainChomp are all going to be good seta throughout this meta.
After Bax and Firepon ban, Chomp will be back to glory soon enough. Scale Shot Chomp is essentially a mini Baxcalibur
On that topic I doubt it will be good
Under that tier at all, sadly
By definition these kinds of mons
Languish without any ubers usage
if only there was something we could do about it :(
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
We managed to keep Garchomp afloat in OU despite everything that's happened. It even clinged to the very bottom of the usage stats just short of dropping. I say we do the same to Landorus if things get worse for it and also help Tyranitar rise back to OU
Assuming that its other sets will even be good. Even with Chain Chomp, it barely stayed in OU in the last usage stats. That fire resistance and many pokemon losing toxic didn't do it much since Heatran isn't that great from my experience and well, resisting Heatran's fire moves was one of Garchomp's biggest advantages over Landorus. As for TankChomp, I really don't see why it would be used over Ting Lu or Gliscor. Ting Lu is so damn difficult to kill and Gliscor really only needs sticky web at this point to be the true hazard machine
If anything, scale shot is probably what would define Garchomp this time around. For me, I've been trying out sub sd scale shot with tera flying to really own defensive Gliscor and it helps me annoy Kingambit easier
I'd be very surprised if Pokemon can learn moves that they already should have access to in the future. Put another way, the only new Scald or Knock Off users we're getting this gen is any Pokemon that get added down the line.
Nah man, he only needs to find the self-destruct button and is an auto-win
i think she has a shot more than other bans. Like more than chi-yu that is kinda too slow for ubers.
After the ending of all the Firepon banning back and forth, I think we can all agree on a few things here.
1) People who disagree with bans like Firepon or baxcalibur this gen are people who either never faced them, or beat it and never lost to them -- hence their judgement end up being "maaan it's fine no?"
2) Finchinator ALWAYS wins the debate. Man replies to e v e r y hate comment on the OU Council and says the same thing (which is... a lot btw). What are y'all trying to do at this point? It's a council for a reason they ain't stupid
3) On the topic of banning pokemon, the people send it off to the council and they are the ones who figure shit out. There's a very clear reason why that one salty Chimecho loser isn't recognized -- yet Bloodmoon Ursaluna is. Now let's say Chimecho did win... a lot of games. Then the council would consider it.
4) People need to realize how things works around here. A lot of the people that are complaining have been here for at least 2 months. I'm sure all of you know that once a month, tier shifts happen. As such, everyone has gotten somewhat recent up to date coverage on the metagame. And if you're a new player, then I can see why you would be a bit judgemental for things.
But on the opposite end of it, everyone actively listens to these back and forth conversations. They happen everyday -- so ignoring them is hard. Possible -- but pretty difficult. Then we get more and more people engaged in it and suddenly it's an argument. As much as I hate it, they are important. I'm betting good money Finchinator (you respond to the most things here) goes home and just sits on his couch trying to clear his mind if all of the debate.
I ain't like the Lorax speaking for some trees, and I do believe if ant4456 said any of this then people would have a much different perspective of it. But I am attempting to speak for the people here. Consider what I said
1) People who disagree with bans like Firepon or baxcalibur this gen are people who either never faced them, or beat it and never lost to them -- hence their judgement end up being "maaan it's fine no?"
2) Finchinator ALWAYS wins the debate. Man replies to e v e r y hate comment on the OU Council and says the same thing (which is... a lot btw). What are y'all trying to do at this point? It's a council for a reason they ain't stupid
3) On the topic of banning pokemon, the people send it off to the council and they are the ones who figure shit out. There's a very clear reason why that one salty Chimecho loser isn't recognized -- yet Bloodmoon Ursaluna is. Now let's say Chimecho did win... a lot of games. Then the council would consider it.
4) People need to realize how things works around here. A lot of the people that are complaining have been here for at least 2 months. I'm sure all of you know that once a month, tier shifts happen. As such, everyone has gotten somewhat recent up to date coverage on the metagame. And if you're a new player, then I can see why you would be a bit judgemental for things.
But on the opposite end of it, everyone actively listens to these back and forth conversations. They happen everyday -- so ignoring them is hard. Possible -- but pretty difficult. Then we get more and more people engaged in it and suddenly it's an argument. As much as I hate it, they are important. I'm betting good money Finchinator (you respond to the most things here) goes home and just sits on his couch trying to clear his mind if all of the debate.
I ain't like the Lorax speaking for some trees, and I do believe if ant4456 said any of this then people would have a much different perspective of it. But I am attempting to speak for the people here. Consider what I said
"Was I a fair OU Pokemon?"
"Well you weren't as bad as Chi-yu so I guess?"
Also to those saying lando/ting will drop just wait a bit they'll find their uses eventually
i know they will but the spiteful part of me wants to see lando-t in uu after dominating three generations before this
Super glad that firepon is gone, I thought she was more horrific to face than Bax was after we found out the mask gave all moves a 1.2x multiplier.
Speaking of bax I'm quite happy that's he's gone and he gives the other dragons a bit more room to breath and they're nowhere near as obnoxious to face if only for the simple fact that you can (save surprise tera fire) burn then. The tier is definitely better with him gone and I think the post home pre dlc meta would have been better without him too.
Personally I don't think there's anything too egregious in the tier anymore other than maybe waterpon.
I really don't get the hype about Manaphy, she's a bit mid imo and won't be a top 10 ou mon once things settle down a bit, flat 100s is a bit lacking in gen 9s super min maxed metagame.
Bluna is super terrifying if it gets a cm of on you but I'm still a bit skeptical of if he's actually broken or not, 52 speed with no way to boost it (as apposed to ddance ttars 61 for example) means he's exploitable. I wouldn't mind him banned either way though if only for how fugly he is vs normal Luna.
Speaking of bax I'm quite happy that's he's gone and he gives the other dragons a bit more room to breath and they're nowhere near as obnoxious to face if only for the simple fact that you can (save surprise tera fire) burn then. The tier is definitely better with him gone and I think the post home pre dlc meta would have been better without him too.
Personally I don't think there's anything too egregious in the tier anymore other than maybe waterpon.
I really don't get the hype about Manaphy, she's a bit mid imo and won't be a top 10 ou mon once things settle down a bit, flat 100s is a bit lacking in gen 9s super min maxed metagame.
Bluna is super terrifying if it gets a cm of on you but I'm still a bit skeptical of if he's actually broken or not, 52 speed with no way to boost it (as apposed to ddance ttars 61 for example) means he's exploitable. I wouldn't mind him banned either way though if only for how fugly he is vs normal Luna.
OUBL will never happen because Ubers is OUBL. The reason OU is the main metagame is that it has the definition of "Allowing every Pokemon below Ubers", it is the premiere metagame because it has the most Pokemon and isn't Ubers.
OUBL is just OU by existing because it's a tier below Ubers that isn't Ubers and allows the most Pokemon.
Ubers was conceived of when Pokemon needed to be banned for OU to be a functional tier. While the tier may have its own council and ability to ban Pokemon, OU Councils are never intended to and never will intend to ban around "will this Pokemon be viable in Ubers", when Ubers is already allowed to use every OU Pokemon to begin with.
OUBL is a pipe dream and has no merit to exist. While lower tiers exist with the purpose of making different metagames with more viable Pokemon, going higher is actually almost impossible, because turns out the only reason most unviable Ubers is unviable is because they fall to the bulkier, as-strong Ubers. OUBL is basically an untierable HO-Hellhole with no other viable teamstyle because the reason they are banned in the first place is we don't have the proper counterplay to them. And the other Pokemon? They only add the counterplay of outspeed, sure.
OUBL is just OU by existing because it's a tier below Ubers that isn't Ubers and allows the most Pokemon.
Ubers was conceived of when Pokemon needed to be banned for OU to be a functional tier. While the tier may have its own council and ability to ban Pokemon, OU Councils are never intended to and never will intend to ban around "will this Pokemon be viable in Ubers", when Ubers is already allowed to use every OU Pokemon to begin with.
OUBL is a pipe dream and has no merit to exist. While lower tiers exist with the purpose of making different metagames with more viable Pokemon, going higher is actually almost impossible, because turns out the only reason most unviable Ubers is unviable is because they fall to the bulkier, as-strong Ubers. OUBL is basically an untierable HO-Hellhole with no other viable teamstyle because the reason they are banned in the first place is we don't have the proper counterplay to them. And the other Pokemon? They only add the counterplay of outspeed, sure.
UUbers would be a banger tier tho, even just as an OM based around Ubers usage rates
oubl is literally freedom cup. if people want to play with the mons that are banned in ou but don't want the box legendaries around to fuck up their shit, that's exactly what freedom cup is for. people have been clamoring for oubl for years and they finally got it this gen, and guess what? it was a flash in the pan that died within months because no one was interested in playing that unbalanceable crap. it didn't even gain enough traction for a ladder
You know unironically, I think too much offense is actually bad
Like yeah you need to deal with Firepon + Chien-Pao + Chi-Yu type shit, but in actuality, the synergy revolves around the NON OUBL pokes. That or Volt Switch Mag is enough support for that lot lmao
Say OUBL did exist. And it was a playable tier
Out of the banned from OU mons we have:
- Annihilape
- Urshifu
- Urshifu Rapid-Strike
- Magearna
- Regieleki
- Chi-Yu
- Chien Pao
- Volcarona
- Baxcalibur
- Ogerpon-Hearthflame
- Espathra
- Flutter Mane
- Iron Bundle
- Palafin
As well as Skymin and Spectrier. We also have banned moves in Baton Pass, Shed Tail, and Last Respects. You know what bastard beats most of these?
(
)Honestly I would love to see how OUBL plays out. Oh wait...
He has a point. Look how that turned out
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It literally would be so bad, just OU but with Palafin, Annihilape, Espathra and Dialga-Origin -I wonder who the game would revolve around!
Peum
formerly Mandibuladel5555
Eh, Id say Urshifu-Dark would be more broken than any of those
gen 7 UUbers would be a banger tier I will not hear otherwise
i completely and wholeheartedly agree with you and my post was meant more as meme, as i have been convinced that OUBL cannot and will not be a thing. still, its worth considering that every gen more and more stuff is going to get banned to ubers where it wont be viable there, and its really a shame. like for me, i work 9-5 and barely have time to play and practice every day, but if i had a very noncompetitive tier with espathra, annihilape, chienpao, volc, magearna... where i could hop on during my 15min breaks to have a dopamine rush of clicking stored power 6 times in a row, thatd be neat lol
that's what cartridge play is for. just boot up battle stadium singles and you can use any of those mons except magearna
unrated ubers ladder would go hard petition to add it
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