Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Local Dog]

I feel more and more inclined to propose some limitation on hazards. Banning Ghold would allow hazard removal much more easily, but I have my doubts it will solve our issues with a clear lack of reliable hazard removers opposed to a shitton of amazing hazard setters

Honestly I can imagine there are other good spin blockers that are just currently overshadowed by Ghold. Pult is immune to spin and matches up well against basically every defogger in the tier

So maybe we should seriously consider suspecting spikes

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

AHH YESSSS ROCKY HELMET OGERPON AND GLISCOR

c'mon dude, they were obviously talking about stuff like rocky helmet corv, which already exists in the meta anyway and would likely become more prevalent if maushold started getting significantly higher usage. dozo and gambit also run it a small minority of the time, but often enough to mention as an anti-maushold strat (especially because tidy up removes both sides' hazards so you don't strictly need boots on anti-maushold mons)

among less used things, lando-t runs rocky helmet as its most common item, amoonguss runs it decently often, and garchomp's only real niche in the tier is being able to run it alongside rough skin. man this paragraph really shows how fucked up the meta is huh

plus, you can punish maushold with static or flame body as well, which doesn't instakill it but absolutely cripples it in a really big way

basically, maushold is solid, especially in this hazard hellscape, but there are plenty of techs to deal with it if it were to become something to start factoring into teambuilding

 

[Ctann]

Hazards wouldn’t be any where as much of a problem if there wasn’t so many very very strong threats that can punish the three or more turns it takes to remove hazards (assuming gholdengo).

hazards themselves are useful

 

[SciWiz373]

and garchomp's only real niche in the tier is being able to run it alongside rough skin.

Just be glad Ferrothorn isn't here. There's a joke somewhere in here about the Theoretical Ferrothorn/Maushold matchup and the Homophobic Ferrothorn meme.

(EDIT: I'll take this down if its off-discussion, but since the focus rn seems to be the RM Suspect, this thread seems largely inactive. Apologies if I'm misreading the room)

 

[guys the ret]

What teams are y’all using for the Roaring Moon suspect?

 

[sims796]

No. Two reasons->
1. Protect Gliscor (burn ticks timer/or u get knocked/toxic, Ground immunity, eats facade, and doesn’t care about your speed)
2. Balloon ghold (they commonly run substitute now, so gl popping the balloon)

What might rise next month however is maushold, as it has a chance to okho phys def gliscor at +1, hazard removes while setting up and ignoring gholdengo, faster encore then ogerpon, ohkos ogerpon with population bomb at +0 and is faster, and encores gambit in endgames to delete sucker punches (spidge got me on the maushold train lol)

Thanks for saving my time and elo.

 

[That_Dwayneee]

garchomp's only real niche in the tier is being able to run it alongside rough skin. man this paragraph really shows how fucked up the meta is huh

I've found garchomp is genuinely good on webs as a way to check cinderace and iron moth while exerting heavy offensive pressure itself - I recommend trying it it's fun

 

[Tressed]

First Ursaluna Bloodmoon, now Roaring Moon. If there's ever a Clefable suspect this gen, I'm cancelling the OU council for their blatant anti-moon agenda.

 

[Finchinator]

First Ursaluna Bloodmoon, now Roaring Moon. If there's ever a Clefable suspect this gen, I'm cancelling the OU council for their blatant anti-moon agenda.

Alexa, give me a list of Moon Stone evolutions

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

First Ursaluna Bloodmoon, now Roaring Moon. If there's ever a Clefable suspect this gen, I'm cancelling the OU council for their blatant anti-moon agenda.

"fuck you, moon, you never had the cheese i wanted" -finchinator, probably

(…even though bloodmoon and roaring moon are nothing but cheese)

 

[pokeoscar]

"fuck you, moon, you never had the cheese i wanted" -finchinator, probably

Lunatone suspect when???

Not to make this a one-liner, do we have any (specific) dates for release of DLC2?; also, totally onboard with the Maushold/Lokix bandwagon, those guys don't have sex... they F*CK...

 

[Spheal boi]

"fuck you, moon, you never had the cheese i wanted" -finchinator, probably

Gru from Despicable Me was right about stealing the moon...

Jokes aside I'm curious if Roaring Moon will be also banned, since even if this sounds as a stupid phase, there are still people who call it mid or not so problematic. But if that happens then next gen we have to ban all mons that have to do with the moon or have it in their name.

 

[woodgoldtwo]

Alexa, give me a list of Moon Stone evolutions

Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Clefable, Wigglytuff, Delcatty and Musharna

4 are not available in Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, 1 is tiered OU and 1 is tiered ZU

 

[SDK03]

Except I'm not gonna piss on the Earth, I'm gonna go higher; I'M PISSING ON THE MOON! How do you like that, Obama?! I PISSED ON THE MOON, YOU IDIOT!

Damn, he’s serious about this suspect.

 

[Soiramio3000]

First Ursaluna Bloodmoon, now Roaring Moon. If there's ever a Clefable suspect this gen, I'm cancelling the OU council for their blatant anti-moon agenda.

I don't think that it is the counsil that has a problem with the moon.
nintendo seem to be the ones that hate it.

 

[awyp]

Damn, he’s serious about this suspect.

Bro literally did not say that lmao.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Bro literally did not say that lmao.

Another one in the anti-moon conspiracy of Big Stall... we will not stand for your revisionist history! Viva la Hyper Offense! YOU CAN'T CENSOR US ALL!!!!!

Also, aMOONgus... it was truly the sussiest mushroom of them all

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I can't believe bro actually said that lmao. This is me talking and not anyone else editing my quote to make it look like I said things that I didn't, because no one would ever do something like that, especially not as a joke. You should trust everything you read on the Internet and take it at face value.

yeah it's pretty wild the things people say around here

I've found garchomp is genuinely good on webs as a way to check cinderace and iron moth while exerting heavy offensive pressure itself - I recommend trying it it's fun

can't you just do that with dragonite, though? it doesn't check moth quite as well if it's not at full hp because of the lack of poison resistance, but if multiscale is intact, it checks both of those things way better than garchomp, with the bonus of a ground immunity, strong priority, and strong ice coverage (all invaluable in today's meta). i don't think there's anything offensive that chomp can really do in 2023 that can't be filled by either dragonite or roaring moon

 

[pokeoscar]

Another one in the anti-moon conspiracy of Big Stall... we will not stand for your revisionist history! Viva la Hyper Offense! YOU CAN'T CENSOR US ALL!!!!!

Also, aMOONgus... it was truly the sussiest mushroom of them all

Team Magma was right!!! ehem...

Continuing on the moon being busted stuff, it's not all pretty, GF nerfed Moonlight since day 1 by making it weather-affected...

What are eveyone's thoughts on AlolaTales?, worth suspecting it as main screen enabler now?

 

[Smashburn]

Team Magma was right!!! ehem...

Continuing on the moon being busted stuff, it's not all pretty, GF nerfed Moonlight since day 1 by making it weather-affected...

What are eveyone's thoughts on AlolaTales?, worth suspecting it as main screen enabler now?

You'd be a little late to the party with screens I think, since we banned Bax is hasn't been a real problem. IMO order of operations for future affairs looks like Kingambit, Manaphy, Woger, and Gholdengo or Gliscor. Super toxic mons right now in a metagame that feels like broken-checks-broken, I won't miss mini Aegislash at all when it goes.

 

[That_Dwayneee]

can't you just do that with dragonite, though? it doesn't check moth quite as well if it's not at full hp because of the lack of poison resistance, but if multiscale is intact, it checks both of those things way better than garchomp, with the bonus of a ground immunity, strong priority, and strong ice coverage (all invaluable in today's meta). i don't think there's anything offensive that chomp can really do in 2023 that can't be filled by either dragonite or roaring moon

Chomp has swords dance to boost instead of dd, which makes it a more nuclear threat quicker, as well as more power due to having real physical stabs in its moveset - you even can afford to run adamant since you lose out on nothing by doing so, unlike dnite who has to run jolly for pult. Dice isn't even needed on webs - I still like it, the outspeed on enamorus and cinderace are quite important - but it can afford to run leftovers or even life orb, trading out scale shot in exchange for stone edge or dragon claw, whereas dnite will basically always be running boots due to how important multiscale is for its setup sets - along with the lack of a poison immunity it has less hp, which makes the difference in spD kinda small, and also giving chomp a significant edge in terms of physical bulk.

So basically, on webs, I prefer chomp to other dragons due to more power, a poison resist, and better physical bulk which - especially when combined with tera fire - gives it more immediate power than dnite, and more staying power than roaring moon. I think it's a genuine niche that it's managed to carve out for itself here, even if it is comparatively small in comparison to other HO threats.

 

[Ernesto]

Alexa, give me a list of Moon Stone evolutions

Finch be like

 

[ianlazerbeem]

You'd be a little late to the party with screens I think, since we banned Bax is hasn't been a real problem. IMO order of operations for future affairs looks like Kingambit, Manaphy, Woger, and Gholdengo or Gliscor. Super toxic mons right now in a metagame that feels like broken-checks-broken, I won't miss mini Aegislash at all when it goes.

Kingambit unfortunately isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the people voted. Imo Gliscor is much more pressing than the rest

 

[Excalibuwrath]

yeah it's pretty wild the things people say around here

can't you just do that with dragonite, though? it doesn't check moth quite as well if it's not at full hp because of the lack of poison resistance, but if multiscale is intact, it checks both of those things way better than garchomp, with the bonus of a ground immunity, strong priority, and strong ice coverage (all invaluable in today's meta). i don't think there's anything offensive that chomp can really do in 2023 that can't be filled by either dragonite or roaring moon

On this note, I briefly went away from my dear old friend BandNite after the DLC dropped, but I've found that it's so incredibly useful in this tier. The SR weakness isn't so scary when most hazardstack archetypes now focus on either Gliscor/Hamurott spikestack or Ribombee webs (although the latter is probably gonna fade pretty quickly bc webs HO tends to be pretty fishy), and the role compression of hazard immunity and strong priority makes it an amazing safety net against all sorts of terrifying threats. That's always been true, but pre-DLC you could also handle those threats with some semblance of a defensive backbone that just isn't possible now because of how much balance/fat teams struggle. If I can't justify running a certain mammoth because it's Gliscor-bait, it makes it much easier to gameplan around Gambit when I can out-priority it for about 60 after it Teras. Plus, it checks the same things it always checked, plus some new things (Moth, Val, Wake, Rilla, Sneasler, chunks Moon, etc etc)

 

[RaikouLover]

Kingambit unfortunately isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the people voted.

….for Gambit to be banned. 55% majority. Gambit is cancer.

I’m not thrilled about the Moon suspect. I’ll admit, it’s because I use RM to counter the broken Ogerpon-W, who other people are using to counter Manaphy, who other people are using because it turns Gliscor into fodder, who is being used because Gholdengo makes it darn near impossible to remove Spikes.

Broken. Checks. Broken.

Let’s just ban Tera.