SM OU Toxic Spikes Semi-Stall (reaching 1800s)

[_pe5e_]

Hello dear reader and welcome to my second RMT. This team was built around Toxic Spikes, which are amazing in the meta right now. I just kind of threw this team together one day and made changes as I was playing it more. I will give a brief overview over the team and also point out some weaknesses at the end. Enjoy.

Nidoqueen @

Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
-

Toxic Spikes
-

Ice Beam
-

Thunderbolt
-

Earthquake

The idea behind the team started with this pokemon. It is barely seen in OU as it has to compete with Toxapex but robopoke posted about it in the OU Viability Ranking Thread awhile ago and made some good points. It is in my opinion the user of toxic spikes when you pair it with Suicune. It gives a solid check/ soft counter to electric tpes that threaten suicune and gives most hazard removel in the tier a hard time. Excadrill(on the switchin), Zapdos and Skarmory all dislike Nidoqueen. The typing also comes in clutch against Diancie-Mega and Magearna and doesnt stack weaknesses as Toxapex would. I started with robopoke´s set, but changed it after a while. As I was using Celesteela Poision Jab was not really needed, so I swapped it with Ice beam because I didnt enjoy giving Garchomp, Latis and Lando-t free switchins. Earth Power was also changed to Earthquake because it hits Zapdos and Calm Mind Magearna harder. That is also the reason I went with Groundium Z after a while instead of Black Sludge as I didnt have a Z-Move user and and it always OHKOs Shift Gear Magearna which is a pain at times if it sets up. Plus Nidoqueen is often only 1-2 turns in which makes the lack of recovery not that bad.

+1 252 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Nidoqueen: 236-278 (61.4 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Nidoqueen Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 320-380 (106.3 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Suicune @

Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-

Calm Mind
-

Protect
-

Substitute
-

Scald

Ah Vincune, what a mon. It is really suprising how good this mon is mid-to-late game. As if it wasn´t frustrating enough Toxic Spikes raises its sweep potential even more. The set is standard with enough speed to outrun maximum Speed Togekiss, Heatran and base 70s, such as Volcanion and Bisharp. Maximum HP investment gives Suicune 404 HP so Substitute is never broken by a Seismic Toss. There really isnt too much to say about this mon. One has to play against it at least once to realize how quickly it can become a probem.

Clefable @

Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-

Stealth Rock
-

Moonblast
-

Soft-Boiled
-

Toxic

The other side of the hazard setters. Clefable is fantastic Rocks thanks to its typing and bulk. With Toxic it beats every defogger and rapid spinner besides Excadrill which doesnt like taking Moonblast and is also traped by Dugtrio. Max Defense because Lopunny-Mega and Medicham-Mega are stupid plus it helps against offensive Lando-T and Dragonite.

Celesteela @

Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Relaxed Nature
-

Leech Seed
-

Protect
-

Heavy Slam
-

Flamethrower

A steel tpye was desperatly needed and Celesteela was a perfect fit. It gives the team a ground immunity and loves Toxic Spikes too plus Leech Seed plus Toxic Spikes is just nasty. Moves are standard. I chose the mixed spread, because this needs to take on Scizor, Pinsir-Mega, Latios, Alakazam-Mega and Tapu Lele all at the same time. There are some matchup where a lot of pressure is on it. One has to play carefully to not get it too worn down. I can also mention here that having 2 pokemon with Protect on the team is really good at times. It helps stalling out rain, Aurora Veil and Trick room.

Latias-Mega @

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-

Ice Beam
-

Thunderbolt
-

Calm Mind
-

Recover

The Mega of choice on this sort of team. It is super bulky and gives fantastic resistances in Ground, Fighting, Water and Electric. Max HP for maximum bulk alongside max speed to outrun Chomps, Kartana, Keldeo and speed ties with Gengar and Latis. Boltbeam gives it the best coverage and suprises Lando, Mantine and co. Calm Mind is a flexible slot and can be changed to Defog, but I advice against it. After a single boost it is near impossible to kill and once the opposing team has been weakend with Toxic Spikes, Latias becomes a dangerous threat to sweep. Plus it really helps defensivly too. After a boost you laugh at Scarf Lele and non-evolved Ash-Greninja.

Dugtrio @

Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-

Earthquake
-

Stone Edge
-

Aerial Ace
-

Memento

The last slot goes to Dugtrio, which handles a couple of problems for the team. Scarf Dugtrio is used because fuck Volcarona, Tapu Koko and Shift Gear Magearna. It also handles other annoying things like heatran or Ash-Greninja. Adament Nature because it still outspeeds Magearna at +2 and jolly doesnt OHKO. Aerial Ace and Memento are kind of filler and can be changed with Pursuit and Toxic, though Memento is nice at times to give Latias-Mega or Suicune at setup chance.

Threats:

Flying Spam: As my only flying resist is Celeestela and I choose not to use Defog on Latias Pokemon like Pinsir-Mega combined with Dragonite and offensive Lando-T can give the team some trouble.

Ash-Greninja/Greninja: The problem is to find out which one and which set it is. This can be quite stupid when it sets up Spikes in your face or Gunk Shots your Clefable when you thought it was Ash. So be carefull with that.

Stall: I dont really have a decent stallbreaker only Suicune. PP stalling is your way to win and Clefable´s Toxic helps but no Defog makes it a pain sometimes.


Hope I gave you a good overview. If you have any suggestions let me hear them :)

Importable

Nidoqueen @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunderbolt

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Substitute
- Scald

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Memento

 

[Twilight]

Hey pretty cool team, I love the idea of building it around nidoqueen toxic spikes.

• First I would like to suggest running maybe Knock Off over toxic on clefable. I know why you have toxic to hit maybe landorus or other non steel types immune to toxic spikes. But when Pokemon like Heatran can switch in easily it may be nice to catch it off with knock off to get rid of its recovery. Especially if it is substitute heatran which is very common. If it gets Sub up you will struggle to revenge kill it with dugtrio meaning it gets a free toxic on your latias switch. This is just a suggestion as I know your team focuses around toxic as a whole.

• I also agree running Defog on your latias would be a waste especially when most of yoir team can't be hurt by spikes and toxic spikes. Yes stealth rock is annoying but basically all your Pokemon have some form of recovery or can be healed by leech seed. Your best option would be to run mega sableye for that magic bounce but it reduces your resistances and coverage. You could test it out but I think biting the bullet and not having a defogger is better.

• Lastly i was wondering why you have aerial ace on dugtrio I'm assuming to hit volcarona without risk of missing? I guess that's a safer option. I don't see any other way it's useful as you wouldn't really bring dugtrio into a venusaur or tangrowth unless they are extremely low. For that reason i would suggest toxic over it but this is up to you. As you said it is a filler move.

Other than that i personally don't see anything you should swap out thanks to dugtrio being able to revenge kill any threats. Hope these suggestions help.

Edit : just ran calcs and aerial ace is only doing max 30% to both venusaur and tangrowth so i don't see it as that useful. And it does max 60% to volcarona so I don't see it being used at all, especially when Earthquake hits harder on volcarona and venusaur too.

 

[_pe5e_]

Hey pretty cool team, I love the idea of building it around nidoqueen toxic spikes.

• First I would like to suggest running maybe Knock Off over toxic on clefable. I know why you have toxic to hit maybe landorus or other non steel types immune to toxic spikes. But when Pokemon like Heatran can switch in easily it may be nice to catch it off with knock off to get rid of its recovery. Especially if it is substitute heatran which is very common. If it gets Sub up you will struggle to revenge kill it with dugtrio meaning it gets a free toxic on your latias switch. This is just a suggestion as I know your team focuses around toxic as a whole.

Knock Off is a possibilty and clearly helps versus Tran and Chansey for example. My main problem with that is that Clefable then misses out on beating a lot of hazard removers. Zapdos, Mantine, Mew and Pelipper and to a degree Starmie are all hit better by Toxic. It really just is a pro con situation and knock off doesnt annoy a whole lot of mons that give the team trouble.

• Lastly i was wondering why you have aerial ace on dugtrio I'm assuming to hit volcarona without risk of missing? I guess that's a safer option. I don't see any other way it's useful as you wouldn't really bring dugtrio into a venusaur or tangrowth unless they are extremely low. For that reason i would suggest toxic over it but this is up to you. As you said it is a filler move.

Edit : just ran calcs and aerial ace is only doing max 30% to both venusaur and tangrowth so i don't see it as that useful. And it does max 60% to volcarona so I don't see it being used at all, especially when Earthquake hits harder on volcarona and venusaur too.

As I said Ace is mostly filler. You could run Pursuit for Marowak or even Toxic. Ace just seemed the most usefull move for me since it hits Buzzwole, Herracross-Mega and Tapu Bulu. Feel free to change it.

Thanks for your rate. I appreciate it

 

[Twilight]

Knock Off is a possibilty and clearly helps versus Tran and Chansey for example. My main problem with that is that Clefable then misses out on beating a lot of hazard removers. Zapdos, Mantine, Mew and Pelipper and to a degree Starmie are all hit better by Toxic. It really just is a pro con situation and knock off doesnt annoy a whole lot of mons that give the team trouble.



As I said Ace is mostly filler. You could run Pursuit for Marowak or even Toxic. Ace just seemed the most usefull move for me since it hits Buzzwole, Herracross-Mega and Tapu Bulu. Feel free to change it.

Thanks for your rate. I appreciate it

Yeah I agree, you run toxic to hit those flying types you have listed, Mew is less of an issue as it will get poisoned either way. But yeah it is just an option if you struggle to play around Heatran for example.

And yeah I completely forgot Mega Heracross and Tapu Bulu were a thing my bad. It doesn't hit Tapu Bulu all that much but it does dent a whole in Heracross, so it is worth running.

 

[Ktütverde]

Amazing build man!!

Nidoqueen is a really cool mon I like to build with, and your team perfectly synergizes with her, grats! I would just suggest you running Knock Off>Toxic on clefable simply because 1) you already have nidoqueen as a free zapdos switchin 2) you will never get rid of ferrothorn with this team, since scald burns do as much damage as leftovers 3)Heatran is gonna be a pain with dug gone (and even with it in the meta you are forced to send suicune on a possible toxic 4) Knock Off is always an amazing move in any defensive team!

Great job, the team was really pleasing to watch :)

 

[_pe5e_]

Amazing build man!!

Nidoqueen is a really cool mon I like to build with, and your team perfectly synergizes with her, grats! I would just suggest you running Knock Off>Toxic on clefable simply because 1) you already have nidoqueen as a free zapdos switchin 2) you will never get rid of ferrothorn with this team, since scald burns do as much damage as leftovers 3)Heatran is gonna be a pain with dug gone (and even with it in the meta you are forced to send suicune on a possible toxic 4) Knock Off is always an amazing move in any defensive team!

Great job, the team was really pleasing to watch :)

The reason for Toxic > Knock Off is seriously just two posts above. Knock Off is not used because it doesnt annoy enough mon that gave the team trouble. Ferro and Heatran can be setup for Suicune if played right and other then those two mons knock is simple not needed when Toxic lets it beat 99% of defogers and rapid spinners which knock off doesnt. But the complete team would need a rework anyway because of the ban so who give a crap.

 

[Ktütverde]

The reason for Toxic > Knock Off is seriously just two posts above. Knock Off is not used because it doesnt annoy enough mon that gave the team trouble. Ferro and Heatran can be setup for Suicune if played right and other then those two mons knock is simple not needed when Toxic lets it beat 99% of defogers and rapid spinners which knock off doesnt. But the complete team would need a rework anyway because of the ban so who give a crap.

With dug gone, you actually have 3 pokemons unable to touch heatran namely celesteela, latias and clefa and as I said, nidoqueen forces all the defoggers out and can proceed to set up Tspikes (toxapex won't come in), but I haven't played your team yet so I trust you, tho the team is so slowpaced that knock off could allow you to beat stuff like heatran ez via rocks entry damage and no leftovers. Gl with the rework man! :)

 

[_pe5e_]

With dug gone, you actually have 3 pokemons unable to touch heatran namely celesteela, latias and clefa and as I said, nidoqueen forces all the defoggers out and can proceed to set up Tspikes (toxapex won't come in), but I haven't played your team yet so I trust you, tho the team is so slowpaced that knock off could allow you to beat stuff like heatran ez via rocks entry damage and no leftovers. Gl with the rework man! :)

Nidoqueen does NOT beat all defogers/rapid spinner. Starmie, Excadrill, Mandabuzz, Latis, Mew, Zados and Scizor-Mega all win 1v1. Toxic Clefable is simple needed to at least ensure rocks, as simple as that. If I would rework the team it would change like 2-3 members. Heatran, MAGEARNA, Greninja and other things are too unprepaired otherwise.

 

[silvaman]

Hi, i have a question, why do you choose Nidoqueen over Nidoking?

EDIT: Also, what changes will you do now that Arena Trap is banned from OU?

 

[_pe5e_]

Hi, i have a question, why do you choose Nidoqueen over Nidoking?

EDIT: Also, what changes will you do now that Arena Trap is banned from OU?

Nidoqueen is used as an electric check and hazard setter. Both of those roles are fulfiled better with her better bulk. Nidoking would be used as a faster wallbreaker, which doesnt fit on this kind of team.
As for changes: I really dont know yet. Simply changing Dugtrio for Banded Tyranitar or something would not work. So multiple team slots would be subject to change and testing would be required. But with school and GS VC coming out I dont think I will be geting around to do this anytime soon.