Type: Null, Silvally Discussion

[Magcargo]

Glad to see silvally got the stats I expected it to get. Base 95 stats across the board are just enough to give it pretty nice bulk and passable offenses. However, not getting Calm Mind, Recover, ExtremeSpeed, or Will-O-Wisp in its movepool nor a power boost from the memory items suck badly and I think it limits Silvally mainly to setup sets w/ Parting Shot. Swords Dance sets with Multi Attack and Parting Shot definitely seems like it will be a staple on all the Silvally forms, espicially since Silvally has decent coverage moves like Iron head, Ice Fang and Crunch and good Bulk to set up consistently. Bulky Mono Attacking sets could also be a thing since Silvally has really good bulk and can use this to check specific threats better (depending on what its Memory Drive its holding). These 2 sets are likely to be what most silvally forms will end up running:

Silvally @ (Insert type here) Memory / Life Orb
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Parting Shot
- Multi-Attack / Double Edge / Return
- Crunch / Iron Head / Fire Fang / Ice Fang / Double Edge

Silvally @ (Insert type here) Memory / Leftovers
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rest
- Multi-Attack / Return
- Sleep Talk

Special Attacking Work Up sets might be viable, but seem more prone to being outclassed by stronger special attacker with much better setup moves. Overall, Silvally seems like a fun addition to the lower tiers though it definitely doesn't seem to breaking ground in OU due to its average stats and movepool. Some really good Mono-type forms like Fairy might make it in though.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Aren't most of the 600 BST legends pretty good? What's keeping this guy from being good? He's decently speedy, especially compared to this gen, he's pretty bulky. He can easily fill a type gap in your team and has some pretty powerful utility in (one of the???) fastest Parting Shot in the game.

 

[2MN]

honestly type: null looks so much more interesting to me right now. though, i wish it had trick room, because having a 59 speed would give it a doubles niche of outspeeding certain pokemon below it without TR, while still outpacing pokemon like porygon-2 under TR

 

[deluge]

I made a post when Silvally was released where I said something like "I hope they aren't boring and give it all 95s" because I knew that's what they'd do.
It isn't too bad though and the type changing gimmick is still interesting for something that isn't Arceus.

 

[DuplexBeGreat]

I'd like to say that I actually appreciate the small details that went into the design of this evolution chain. When they were officially revealed and we were told that Silvally is what happens when Type: Null "trusts a trainer" and then sheds its helmet, I actually thought to myself that it would be quite odd if simply removing the helmet triggered a full-on evolution, especially since Silvally appeared to have almost no physical characteristics different from Type: Null. Now we know that the actual evolution mechanics reflect this: Type: Null evolves by Friendship and gains literally no boosts except for Speed, which the helmet was said to inhibit.

 

[Groudon ex]

Not learning Earthquake seems to be a major bummer. Otherwise, it could've run a decent set with Swords Dance / Multi-Attack (Fairy) / Earthquake / Fire Fang. Since there aren't any other fast, physically oriented Fairies (Tapu Koko doesn't learn Play Rough so it doesn't count), this set would've been able to carve out its own niche. You could still run this set without Earthquake but that would mean being hard walled by Heatran.

There may be a couple of decent sets out there and it'll take some creativity to find which ones might be worth using in OU.

 

[Siggu]

No Calm Mind and no(t even) Bulk Up. Will not even be able to try to play similarly to most Arceus.

It could be a decent pivot as Silvally's the best Parting Shot user in the game.

 

[BloodGod22]

A poor man's Arceus will a "meh" move pool.
The problem I have is that it doesn't shine in any area. It is completely outclasses by a ton of pokemon regardless of what role you want it to fit on your team.
The only thing it has going for it is unpredictability, but then again, it gets out shined there as well.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Do Silvally's Memory items boost the moves like Arceus's Plates?

 

[Retro64]

Not really sure what people were expecting in terms of stats. It's a failed clone of Arceus. He might be able to find some kind of niche but overall he's just very average.

 

[Chickensandwichk]

So what's the Nature situation on this thing?

 

[Project_Mars]

What about a Special Scarf set? Something like:
Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack
- Flash Cannon/Flamethrower

BoltBeam for best coverage. Then Tri Attack for a strong STAB attack and either Flash Cannon for Faries or Flamethrower for most Steel-types. Shadow Ball and Air Slash are also options.

Tbh, not sure how effective it would be, but I think that's possibly one of the better options for a Special set.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

What about a Special Scarf set? Something like:
Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack
- Flash Cannon/Flamethrower

BoltBeam for best coverage. Then Tri Attack for a strong STAB attack and either Flash Cannon for Faries or Flamethrower for most Steel-types. Shadow Ball and Air Slash are also options.

Tbh, not sure how effective it would be, but I think that's possibly one of the better options for a Special set.

Completely outclassed by Nidoking.

 

[Jeronado]

Aw, Silvally's stats and movepool are both kinda disappointing. Was hoping it would get an Arceus style movepool at least with some recovery. Might be fun to mess around with though I guess.

 

[Anna says hi]

Banning Type: Null from Little cup isn't exactly unprecedented. Pretty sure Scyther has been banned from its inception.

It'll likely be banned by technicality since I doubt you'll be able to receive one at or below level 5, and it can't breed. Same goes for Cosmog, not that it would be something you'd want on your LC team in the first place, what with being unable to deal damage at all without Struggle..

 

[Jaguar360]

Scarf Silvally seems like the ultimate offensive pivot (aside from like Lando-T) in my eyes. Access to two momentum-preserving moves with that speed seems really important. It also has a quick, STAB Explosion to be useful towards the end-game. It has potential to be really annoying with this set. Main issue is strength outside of STAB moves, but I think it'll be efficient enough to do its job anyway. Perhaps the first viable offensive normal type in OU?

Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- U-turn
- Double Edge
- Explosion / Shadow Claw / Crunch

Don't want to overhype it though. Its has a bunch of other options with its Memory sets that could work, but they could also be outclassed or just bad.

Swords Dance is one thing I can see it making use of. The types which seem to best fit its physical coverage are Fighting and Ghost. It's a real shame that Silvally's strongest physical options against Steels are Fire Fang and Flame Charge...the lack of Brick Break and Earthquake really hurts. I can see Dragon and Poison Silvally running SD + Flame Charge viably though. Mixed Flamethrower is another option. Lum Berry or Z-Crystal Silvally could also work with Swords Dance.

Example Swords Dance sets

Silvally @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- X-Scissor / Crunch
- Iron Head / Rock Slide

Silvally @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- X-Scissor
- Iron Head / Substitute / Flame Charge / Fire Fang / Toxic / Thunder Wave / Explosion

Silvally @ Dragon Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Flame Charge / Fire Fang / Flamethrower
- Iron Head

Silvally @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Crunch
- Flame Charge / Fire Fang / Flamethrower

Silvally @ Lum Berry / Life Orb / Normalium Z
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack / Return / Double Edge
- Crunch
- Flamethrower / Fire Fang / U-turn

Work Up will likely be unviable on the special and mixed side. For special to work, it's gonna need to be 3 attacks + U-turn/Parting Shot I think. Best example probably being:

Silvally @ Electric Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Parting Shot
- U-turn / Flamethrower / Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Finally, on the defensive. I think this is the area where Silvally will probably be the least impressive, but there is potential. This again revolves around Parting Shot and U-turn. Those moves alongside T-Wave, Roar and Toxic are the extent of Silvally's defensive potential. If Silvally can check enough threats and not be outclassed by other Pokemon of the same type, sets like the one below should be solid. Otherwise, defensive Silvally won't be relevant.

Silvally @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Multi-Attack
- U-turn / Parting Shot
- Toxic / U-turn

 

[Pagz]

When I first saw this (before moveset and bst were revealed) I thought it might be ok as a physical fairy. Fairy/Fire/Rock also gives it completely unresisted coverage. The result is... well, it's stats and movepool are "just" too low for OU. I think it'll do quite well in other tiers. Will find it's niche eventually however.

Silvally @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Flame Charge
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

+2 252+ Atk Silvally Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 344-408 (100.2 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Scizor: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (if the Memory buffs Fairy moves it should be better)
252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 312-368 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 296-350 (113.4 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 178-211 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 96 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-T: 348-411 (107.7 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 476-564 (139.5 - 165.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 237-280 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 390-462 (128.2 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Abomasnow Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 414-488 (99.2 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 153-180 (40 - 47.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-----------------------

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 252-296 (63.9 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally: 306-361 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 267-315 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (141 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Steel With It]

What about a Special Scarf set? Something like:
Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack
- Flash Cannon/Flamethrower

Ditch Flash Cannon and replace either Flamethrower or Thunderbolt with Parting Shot. If you're not using Parting Shot, you shouldn't be using Choiced Silvally.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

It's such a shame that for something that is able to change types to your whim, it has such a shallow movepool to back that up. It can't just switch to special moves either since its signature move's physical and going physical leaves silvy here vulnerable to burn, but what can you do. Lack of Fighting and Ground-type coverage outside of Physical STAB Multi-Attack also really hurt since you kinda need those to blow past Steels. Oh well, maybe next generation.

While it's looking just about above average offensively, its bulk is actually just short of being that of Jirachi's and Celebi's without the additional crippling Psychic-type but in exchange a useful ability. I personally see more use for it defensively/pivot-wise since 95 Speed isn't cutting it unless you're running a defensive boosting set, sorta like—

Ack, fuk, it doesn't even have Recover or anything of the sort RIP

Point is, this thing is quite limited yet quite versatile. It looks like people interested in using this will probably have to find a workaround if they want to get creative outside offensive.

What about a Special Scarf set? Something like:
Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Tri Attack
- Flash Cannon/Flamethrower

BoltBeam for best coverage. Then Tri Attack for a strong STAB attack and either Flash Cannon for Faries or Flamethrower for most Steel-types. Shadow Ball and Air Slash are also options.

Tbh, not sure how effective it would be, but I think that's possibly one of the better options for a Special set.

Literally a Porygon-Z that hits way less hard and doesn't use Silvally's assets to its full potential, but it's a start. U-turn shenanigans would have been nice.

 

[HauntedPumpkin]

Do we know if the memory items can be knocked off? Sorry if It may seem kind of obvious but idk I would really like confirmation on this.

Also, I'll very disappointed if they can.

 

[Pagz]

I assume they'll work like Arceus' Plates, which cannot be Knocked Off.

 

[Magcargo]

Do we know if the memory items can be knocked off? Sorry if It may seem kind of obvious but idk I would really like confirmation on this.

Also, I'll very disappointed if they can.

Considering that Arceus's plates can't be knocked, I really doubt it.

-snip-

It actually gets Fire Fang too, which might be a worthwhile option over Flame Charge if it scores Notable KOs against specific mons.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

It would be interesting if different Silvavvy formes ended up in different tiers. It's not like Arceus, where they're all just too good. What's the tiering policy on this?

 

[Jeronado]

Perhaps some type of Resttalk pivot? That's all I've been able to think of so far.

Silvally @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Parting Shot
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Type could change depending on what you want it to check. I picked Fairy cause Weavile is annoying.
I think scarfed pivot with parting shot might be nice if you didn't have to be a normal type to use a choice scarf.

 

[Ba'al]

Parting Shot is very very interesting. Looking forward to see how it meshes with the various capabilities of RKS System. Draco Meteor is also an interesting standout. With the mediocre base speed, maybe a decent scarf set is in the works? Though with that you wouldn't be able to use RKS System so idk.