Id rather kill a mence without him dracoing me with TW rather than just catching a DRACO to the face.Oh hydreigon 2.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
VGC 15 - Good Cores
- Thread starter Mymble
- Start date
- Status
Not trying to start any arguments or anything but Outrage honestly isn't good. Outrage has a 50% chance at hitting your intended target, meaning that it's pretty much a coin flip over whether Salamence dies or not. That's not reliable at all and this is boosted by the fact that:
- -1 156+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 152-180 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
- 156+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 224-266 (130.9 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 156+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 152-180 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Also just saying but Dragon Claw is a guaranteed OHKO on Hydreigon:
- 156+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 204-242 (121.4 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2015-277808568 a replay where it mattered.
I'm not gonna say anything else after this but the fact that Outrage locks you into the move, picks random targets and confuses you is more than enough for me to use Dragon Claw. Besides there are going to be times when it will matter which target you hit with Outrage.
ok, the new stuff I'm tossing around like salad isn't quite done yet but here's 2 older cores I've ran that were pretty good:
Balanced Core
+
Believe it or not, this happened to me by accident. I was playing with a sixth slot on my team that already had Aegislash, and decided to use Kiss as a MegaMence counter + Tailwind + redirector for a Mega Venusaur. I actually didn't realise the amazing synergy with Aegislash until Kansas City Regionals. lol.
Anyway, onto the core: Togekiss supports Aegislash almost perfectly, rendering things like Hydreigon, TTar, Gengar, Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast, Amoonguss, Breloom, WoW, Crunch Mega Khan, and Encore nearly useless, while Aegislash sets a Sub. Once a Sub is set, Aegislash can attack freely, or even attack consecutively without setting a Sub. Tailwind and Thunder Wave offer obvious Speed control, but both members abuse the ability to attack first very well. Against TR, Aegislash hits nearly every user of the move very hard, is immune to Fake Out, and Togekiss can fish for flinches with Air Slash. Facing a Subbed Aegislash while Paralyzed and being bombarded by Air Slash is absolutely disgusting, granting many free turns for Aegislash to sweep. The core needs hopefully obvious support against Bisharp, Heatran, and Lando-T but that really should be vital on every team anyway. I often found myself leaving Aegislash in Blade form 3+ turns straight, occasionally even going entire matches without even using King's Shield. It mostly just blocks spread damage and trolls shit if Kiss dies.
The large array of utility and resistances offered by a small, splashable core is impressive, and I've tested it extensively, including actual, irl VGCs. Good partners include Hydreigon (Dragon/Steel/Fairy, plus we've already covered Aegislash + Hydreigon, that's why I didn't make it a 3 mon core), TTar, and Rotom-W. Rotom-H lets you take the Goggles off of Kiss, but you have a *very* big Lando-T hole. TTar, gets great cover against Superpower / Low Kick with an immune partner + Follow Me 4x resist.
Aegislash's spread allows it to outspeed max Speed Thundurus-I and Tornadus-I (base 111) in Tailwind, which is a pretty good chunk of the game. HP is maxed for general bulk, it's not a special Sub / Lefties number. The remainder is dumped in Sp. Atk.
Togekiss is a specially defensive spread, designed to ironically survive 252+ Aegislash's LO Flash Cannon, enough Speed to outrun Scarf Adamant Landog and +1 252+ Gyarados (Jolly, max Speed, Dragon Dance) in Tailwind, with the remainder splashed in Def for general bulk. Thunder Wave is reccomended for powerful Speed control, and gut-wrenching hax abuse. Saftey Goggles lets you sponge Spore while Aegislash sets a Sub (making Scarf Breloom very, very fucking useless), and pairs well with TTar. It also lets you Twave like a plague even when Amoonguss tries to spam Rage Powder to contain the ParaFlinch hax. Sitrus makes you bulkier, which is nice for setting Tailwind multiple times. Protect is good if you already have T-Wave support like Thundy, as Togekiss does attract double targets, much like Amoonguss and Suicune.
You could also probably do Kiss + Sub Mega Metagross; similar concept, even moar flinching.
And, the very similar #2:
Balanced Core
+
A Trick Room duo to be sure, but it is a decent form of Speed control; you can run neutral Speed natures and 31 Speed IV's if you don't want dedicated TR.
Anyway, the trick here is abusing King's Shield + Heal Pulse for defense, and smashing back with LO Aegislash. The bulk is enormous between the two, with Aegislash being nigh-unkillable, and when it does get low, just King's Shield + Heal Pulse to block damage and heal simultaneously. Sub is not workable here - it blocks Heal Pulse (otherwise, just straight up fuck killing this thing). Audino makes itself useful by setting TR with gargantuan bulk and complementary typing, and afterwards just screws with things like Kangaskhan and Salamence with Skill Swap, or sends Aegislash's damage output to "click Shadow Ball, enjoy free KO" level with Helping Hand. Fairy STAB is basically useless, picking off Sash / Sturdy and crushing Hydreigon.
Audino's spread allows it to live a Flash Cannon from our own Aegislash (because why not), and retains massive physical bulk; relatively on par with physical juggernauts such as Hippowdon, Tangrowth, and Aggron, while boasting much higher Special bulk.
Aegislash's spread should be so painfully simple I shouldn't need words.
Sacred Sword is used for perfect coverage, to hit Heatran, Bisharp, TTar, Kangaskhan, etc.
And yes, you could also use Aromatisse for this set, it's not nearly as bulky / no Ghost immunity but doesn't eat a Mega slot + makes Aegislash immune to Taunt and Encore.
Mostly, Heal Pulse + King's Shield is hilarious. Works with Chansey too, but no TR / even more gimmicky.
edit: nearly forgot:
I ran Dazzling Gleam on my Togekiss, during the Clefairy+DD MegaMence plague to 2HKO Mence; cannibal actually ran the T-Wave variant I posted.
Balanced Core
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 172 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 76 Speed
Nature: Modest
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon
Togekiss @ Saftey Goggles / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 52 Def, 4 Sp. Atk, 116 Sp. Def, 76 Speed
Nature: Calm
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave / Protect
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 172 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 76 Speed
Nature: Modest
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon
Togekiss @ Saftey Goggles / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 52 Def, 4 Sp. Atk, 116 Sp. Def, 76 Speed
Nature: Calm
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave / Protect
Believe it or not, this happened to me by accident. I was playing with a sixth slot on my team that already had Aegislash, and decided to use Kiss as a MegaMence counter + Tailwind + redirector for a Mega Venusaur. I actually didn't realise the amazing synergy with Aegislash until Kansas City Regionals. lol.
Anyway, onto the core: Togekiss supports Aegislash almost perfectly, rendering things like Hydreigon, TTar, Gengar, Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast, Amoonguss, Breloom, WoW, Crunch Mega Khan, and Encore nearly useless, while Aegislash sets a Sub. Once a Sub is set, Aegislash can attack freely, or even attack consecutively without setting a Sub. Tailwind and Thunder Wave offer obvious Speed control, but both members abuse the ability to attack first very well. Against TR, Aegislash hits nearly every user of the move very hard, is immune to Fake Out, and Togekiss can fish for flinches with Air Slash. Facing a Subbed Aegislash while Paralyzed and being bombarded by Air Slash is absolutely disgusting, granting many free turns for Aegislash to sweep. The core needs hopefully obvious support against Bisharp, Heatran, and Lando-T but that really should be vital on every team anyway. I often found myself leaving Aegislash in Blade form 3+ turns straight, occasionally even going entire matches without even using King's Shield. It mostly just blocks spread damage and trolls shit if Kiss dies.
The large array of utility and resistances offered by a small, splashable core is impressive, and I've tested it extensively, including actual, irl VGCs. Good partners include Hydreigon (Dragon/Steel/Fairy, plus we've already covered Aegislash + Hydreigon, that's why I didn't make it a 3 mon core), TTar, and Rotom-W. Rotom-H lets you take the Goggles off of Kiss, but you have a *very* big Lando-T hole. TTar, gets great cover against Superpower / Low Kick with an immune partner + Follow Me 4x resist.
Aegislash's spread allows it to outspeed max Speed Thundurus-I and Tornadus-I (base 111) in Tailwind, which is a pretty good chunk of the game. HP is maxed for general bulk, it's not a special Sub / Lefties number. The remainder is dumped in Sp. Atk.
Togekiss is a specially defensive spread, designed to ironically survive 252+ Aegislash's LO Flash Cannon, enough Speed to outrun Scarf Adamant Landog and +1 252+ Gyarados (Jolly, max Speed, Dragon Dance) in Tailwind, with the remainder splashed in Def for general bulk. Thunder Wave is reccomended for powerful Speed control, and gut-wrenching hax abuse. Saftey Goggles lets you sponge Spore while Aegislash sets a Sub (making Scarf Breloom very, very fucking useless), and pairs well with TTar. It also lets you Twave like a plague even when Amoonguss tries to spam Rage Powder to contain the ParaFlinch hax. Sitrus makes you bulkier, which is nice for setting Tailwind multiple times. Protect is good if you already have T-Wave support like Thundy, as Togekiss does attract double targets, much like Amoonguss and Suicune.
You could also probably do Kiss + Sub Mega Metagross; similar concept, even moar flinching.
And, the very similar #2:
Balanced Core
Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 Sp. Atk
Nature: Quiet (0 Speed IVs)
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Sacred Sword
- Flash Cannon / Iron Head
Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 220 HP, 252 Def, 36 Sp. Def (may not be 100% optimized)
Nature: Relaxed (0 Speed IV)
- Dazzling Gleam / Draining Kiss
- Skill Swap / Helping Hand
- Heal Pulse
- Trick Room
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 Sp. Atk
Nature: Quiet (0 Speed IVs)
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Sacred Sword
- Flash Cannon / Iron Head
Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 220 HP, 252 Def, 36 Sp. Def (may not be 100% optimized)
Nature: Relaxed (0 Speed IV)
- Dazzling Gleam / Draining Kiss
- Skill Swap / Helping Hand
- Heal Pulse
- Trick Room
A Trick Room duo to be sure, but it is a decent form of Speed control; you can run neutral Speed natures and 31 Speed IV's if you don't want dedicated TR.
Anyway, the trick here is abusing King's Shield + Heal Pulse for defense, and smashing back with LO Aegislash. The bulk is enormous between the two, with Aegislash being nigh-unkillable, and when it does get low, just King's Shield + Heal Pulse to block damage and heal simultaneously. Sub is not workable here - it blocks Heal Pulse (otherwise, just straight up fuck killing this thing). Audino makes itself useful by setting TR with gargantuan bulk and complementary typing, and afterwards just screws with things like Kangaskhan and Salamence with Skill Swap, or sends Aegislash's damage output to "click Shadow Ball, enjoy free KO" level with Helping Hand. Fairy STAB is basically useless, picking off Sash / Sturdy and crushing Hydreigon.
Audino's spread allows it to live a Flash Cannon from our own Aegislash (because why not), and retains massive physical bulk; relatively on par with physical juggernauts such as Hippowdon, Tangrowth, and Aggron, while boasting much higher Special bulk.
Aegislash's spread should be so painfully simple I shouldn't need words.
Sacred Sword is used for perfect coverage, to hit Heatran, Bisharp, TTar, Kangaskhan, etc.
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 190-224 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 179-213 (107.1 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 156-185 (93.4 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 203-244 (98 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Shield Helping Hand Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 187-221 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Shield Flash Cannon vs. 220 HP / 36 SpD Mega Audino: 174-205 (84.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 120-143 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Iron Head vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 122-146 (59.2 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 101-123 (49 - 59.7%) -- 100% chance to 2HKO (that's very damn good, considering it doesn't resist it)
252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 36 SpD Mega Audino: 192-229 (93.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 179-213 (107.1 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 156-185 (93.4 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Helping Hand Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 203-244 (98 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Shield Helping Hand Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 187-221 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Shield Flash Cannon vs. 220 HP / 36 SpD Mega Audino: 174-205 (84.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 120-143 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Iron Head vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 122-146 (59.2 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 220 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 101-123 (49 - 59.7%) -- 100% chance to 2HKO (that's very damn good, considering it doesn't resist it)
252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 36 SpD Mega Audino: 192-229 (93.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
And yes, you could also use Aromatisse for this set, it's not nearly as bulky / no Ghost immunity but doesn't eat a Mega slot + makes Aegislash immune to Taunt and Encore.
Mostly, Heal Pulse + King's Shield is hilarious. Works with Chansey too, but no TR / even more gimmicky.
edit: nearly forgot:
I ran Dazzling Gleam on my Togekiss, during the Clefairy+DD MegaMence plague to 2HKO Mence; cannibal actually ran the T-Wave variant I posted.
Last edited:
Offense Core
Sets:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Encore / Disable / Imprison / Calm Mind / HP Ground
- Protect
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Protect / Encore / Faint / Quick Guard
Max Speed Gardevoir is the best choice together with Infernape as they both outspeed many common mons. The moveset is standard but the third slot is a filler move and not the most important imo. Encore is really good to suprise opponents who Protect against Infernapes Fake-Out or you can disable AV Landos Eq to support Infernape etc. You need Imprison for opposing Sylveons as you can't ohko it together with Infernape.
Infernape needs the Life Orb and the EV spread to ohko all common Gardevoir counters. You can decide between Protect and Encore but Protect is more important imo if you play Encore on gardevoir. Additionally, you can run Feint to break incoming protects or to break Wide Guards for Gardevoirs Hyper Voice. You can also choose Quick Guard to avoid Talonflames Brave Bird and prankster twave or swagger.
Last edited:
This looks like a cool core. Would probably mention HP Ground on Gardevoir tho.Mega Gardevoir + Infernape is a very good offensive core that pressures the opponent as Infernape kills the Gardevoir counters (for example Aegislash, Heatran and other steels) and provides Fake-Out support.Offense Core
Sets:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Encore / Disable / Imprison / Calm Mind
- Protect
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Protect / Encore
Max Speed Gardevoir is the best choice together with Infernape as they both outspeed many common mons. The moveset is standard but the third slot is a filler move and not the most important imo. Encore is really good to suprise opponents who Protect against Infernapes Fake-Out or you can disable AV Landos Eq to support Infernape etc. You need Imprison for opposing Sylveons as you can't ohko it together with Infernape.
Infernape needs the Life Orb and the EV spread to ohko all common Gardevoir counters. You can decide between Protect and Encore but Protect is more important imo if you play Encore on gardevoir.
1) I used the images of this site: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/
2) Thanks for the options, I added them.
nicholascookie
Banned deucer.
Loses to standard Scarf + Calm genies, shit coreMega Gardevoir + Infernape is a very good offensive core that pressures the opponent as Infernape kills the Gardevoir counters (for example Aegislash, Heatran and other steels) and provides Fake-Out support.Offense Core
Sets:
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Encore / Disable / Imprison / Calm Mind / HP Ground
- Protect
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Protect / Encore / Faint / Quick Guard
Max Speed Gardevoir is the best choice together with Infernape as they both outspeed many common mons. The moveset is standard but the third slot is a filler move and not the most important imo. Encore is really good to suprise opponents who Protect against Infernapes Fake-Out or you can disable AV Landos Eq to support Infernape etc. You need Imprison for opposing Sylveons as you can't ohko it together with Infernape.
Infernape needs the Life Orb and the EV spread to ohko all common Gardevoir counters. You can decide between Protect and Encore but Protect is more important imo if you play Encore on gardevoir. Additionally, you can run Feint to break incoming protects or to break Wide Guards for Gardevoirs Hyper Voice. You can also choose Quick Guard to avoid Talonflames Brave Bird and prankster twave or swagger.
All cores got to lose to something, but you can't call a shit core just because it loses to something. It isn't like this two mons can handle every single thread in VGC, then the need for a team wouldn't be necessary. Anything called Wide Guard Swampert can stop Landorus-T and Thundurus from their shenanigans, but the core itself it's pretty solid. Can you not be a complete ass next time you actually reply here? Or would you actually prefer to get banned AGAIN?
nicholascookie
Banned deucer.
You can't call a core a "good" one if it loses to the most common Pokemon combination in the metagame. If misinforming and deluding inexperienced players from the truth that VGC isn't bada bam bada boom is what it takes to not be a "complete" ass, I'd rather much prefer to get banned knowing I'm not shitting on player potential.
Could you please refrain from making these kinds of comments, they help nobody and distract from the purpose of the thread. If you take fault with a core I have no qualms with criticisms being made, however, they must go beyond simply calling a core shit. The idea should be to improve the core, or where not possible let it be handled in a more respectful way (presumably by me). Now, I've let this thread get away from and I will be updating the op later today and responding to each core.nicholascookie said:
The core in question here is the most reliable way of currently using Infernape. It can OHKO both Heatran and Aegislash, Mega Gardevoir's primary counters, this eases a lot of pressure off of Mega Gardevoir. While Infernape is far from a top tier Pokemon it is most definitely useable, especially alongside Mega Gardevoir.
If you want to contribute to the thread be it a core or useful criticism, you are welcome to. But if you, or anyone else, are only going to post shitty one liners I'm going to ask you not to post here.
how does that even lose to scarf lando and calm thundy it has a great turn 1, fake out lando and hyper voice with gardy, then figure out your next play from that
Scarf lando is taking like 65 from that hyper voice and you have a really good chance of blowing thundys Sitrus. Seems fine to me lol
Scarf lando is taking like 65 from that hyper voice and you have a really good chance of blowing thundys Sitrus. Seems fine to me lol
Included
Could you include Level 51's spread, and a little info on Cresselia's moves (Trick Room + Icy Wind/Thunder Wave, Icy Wind + Thunder Wave are both pretty redundant). but otherwise this is good
Only including Togekiss+Aegislash, Mega Audino is garbage.
Included
The op is up to date
Last edited:
Yes thats my opinion, too. Could you, nicholascookie , explain me how exactly my core loses to lando+thundi? Would be very kind ;)
I updated my descriptions and included his spread
Cool thanks I'll get this done now
I know, it was just to show King's Shield + Heal Pulse.
edit: Can I have my name on the Togekiss + Aegislash hide tag in the OP? Everyone else has one :P
oh sorry
This is a well-known, hard hitting Offensive Core, that I've been using for a long time. No idea why it isn't already listed here, but here we go...
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze => Drought
EVs: 12 HP / 28 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
Charizard-Y is a very strong option for the Mega slot on a VGC team. It gives you ridiculously strong, sun-boosted STAB Fire-moves that threaten everything without a Fire-type resistance. Heat Wave offers strong spread damage, while Overheat works as a nuke to OHKO threats to your team. Drought Solar Beam gives you coverage to damage Watertanks and Rock-type Pokémon, that resist those Fire-type attacks.
The ability Drought also gives you a way to mess with opposing Sand or Rain teams and allows you to turn the momentum in your favor, if used wisely.
The most common threats to Charizard-Y are opposing Rock Slide users like Landorus-T, Terrakion or Tyranitar and Pokémon that resist it's Fire + Grass-coverage like Heatran, Hydreigon or Mega Salamence. Less common checks include Pokémon like Entei, Garchomp, Mamoswine or Rotom-H. Charizard-Y's limited physical bulk also means, that strong physical attackers like Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Metagross or Talonflame can easily finish it after it has taken some chip damage.
The Special Defense is better, but also limited because of the low HP stat. It does allow it to take some special hits though. Bulky Thundurus-I can't OHKO you with Thunderbolt for example.
Additionally, Charizard-Y faces an awkward mirror match against opposing Charizard-Y, since it's offensive coverage is resisted.
Landorus-T is a great partner, because it has STAB Earthquake to threaten opposing Heatran, Terrakion and/or Entei.
Superpower gives you another option to KO Kangaskhan after some chip damage, if you want to preserve Charizard's Special Attack and is your best option against Hydreigon and Mamoswine. It also OHKO's non-Chople Berry Tyranitar, something that Earthquake can't do.
U-turn is for scouting, to create momentum, get out of dangerous situations while dealing chip damage and to cycle Intimidate.
Rock Slide is the best move in the metagame and needs no explanation, but for the sake of completion... it does deal at least chip damage to both opponents, has a very nice chance to flinch and threatens the Fire-types that resist Fire-, Grass- and Ground-moves like other Charizard-Y, Rotom-H and Talonflame. It is also useful to finish weakened Thundurus-I and Zapdos or to allow Charizard-Y to finish them with Heat Wave.
The ability Intimidate patches up Charizard's weak physical bulk and allows Charizard to stay around for longer. In exchange, Charizard's Drought neutralizes Landorus-T's weakness to Water-type attacks and Drought Solar Beam kills Watertanks for Landorus, that often carry Ice-type coverage to quickly KO it. Amoonguss and Breloom, two Pokémon that can be problematic for Landorus-T, are highly threatened by Charizard-Y and will think twice about switching in.
Simply spamming the spread moves Heat Wave and Earthquake/Rock Slide can be very effective with this core, because none of the common Wide Guard users have a great matchup against Charizard-Y/Landorus-T. Aegislash and Conkeldurr die to Overheat and Swampert dies to Solar Beam.
Add teammates that can deal with "double genie", Life Orb Bisharp and Mega Salamence, because those can be problematic matchups.
Conkeldurr deals with "double genie" pretty well, threatens Bisharp and allows you to pivot into a lot of the attacks that would be aimed at Charizard-Y/Landorus-T. It does nothing to improve your Mega Salamence matchup though.
Bulky Electric-types and Watertanks with Ice-coverage help against Salamence.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze => Drought
EVs: 12 HP / 28 Def / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
Charizard-Y is a very strong option for the Mega slot on a VGC team. It gives you ridiculously strong, sun-boosted STAB Fire-moves that threaten everything without a Fire-type resistance. Heat Wave offers strong spread damage, while Overheat works as a nuke to OHKO threats to your team. Drought Solar Beam gives you coverage to damage Watertanks and Rock-type Pokémon, that resist those Fire-type attacks.
The ability Drought also gives you a way to mess with opposing Sand or Rain teams and allows you to turn the momentum in your favor, if used wisely.
The most common threats to Charizard-Y are opposing Rock Slide users like Landorus-T, Terrakion or Tyranitar and Pokémon that resist it's Fire + Grass-coverage like Heatran, Hydreigon or Mega Salamence. Less common checks include Pokémon like Entei, Garchomp, Mamoswine or Rotom-H. Charizard-Y's limited physical bulk also means, that strong physical attackers like Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Metagross or Talonflame can easily finish it after it has taken some chip damage.
The Special Defense is better, but also limited because of the low HP stat. It does allow it to take some special hits though. Bulky Thundurus-I can't OHKO you with Thunderbolt for example.
Additionally, Charizard-Y faces an awkward mirror match against opposing Charizard-Y, since it's offensive coverage is resisted.
The Charizard-Y EV spread is highly customizable. Personally, I prefer Speed + damage output over bulk, which is why I use this one. It's a simple offensive 252/252 spread with enough EVs moved from SpA to physical bulk to achieve this:
-1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 128-154 (82.5 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 129-153 (83.2 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 124-147 (80 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 104-124 (67 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 97-115 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 128-154 (82.5 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 129-153 (83.2 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 124-147 (80 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 120-144 (77.4 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 104-124 (67 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 28 Def Mega Charizard Y: 97-115 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Landorus-T is a great partner, because it has STAB Earthquake to threaten opposing Heatran, Terrakion and/or Entei.
Superpower gives you another option to KO Kangaskhan after some chip damage, if you want to preserve Charizard's Special Attack and is your best option against Hydreigon and Mamoswine. It also OHKO's non-Chople Berry Tyranitar, something that Earthquake can't do.
U-turn is for scouting, to create momentum, get out of dangerous situations while dealing chip damage and to cycle Intimidate.
Rock Slide is the best move in the metagame and needs no explanation, but for the sake of completion... it does deal at least chip damage to both opponents, has a very nice chance to flinch and threatens the Fire-types that resist Fire-, Grass- and Ground-moves like other Charizard-Y, Rotom-H and Talonflame. It is also useful to finish weakened Thundurus-I and Zapdos or to allow Charizard-Y to finish them with Heat Wave.
The ability Intimidate patches up Charizard's weak physical bulk and allows Charizard to stay around for longer. In exchange, Charizard's Drought neutralizes Landorus-T's weakness to Water-type attacks and Drought Solar Beam kills Watertanks for Landorus, that often carry Ice-type coverage to quickly KO it. Amoonguss and Breloom, two Pokémon that can be problematic for Landorus-T, are highly threatened by Charizard-Y and will think twice about switching in.
Simply spamming the spread moves Heat Wave and Earthquake/Rock Slide can be very effective with this core, because none of the common Wide Guard users have a great matchup against Charizard-Y/Landorus-T. Aegislash and Conkeldurr die to Overheat and Swampert dies to Solar Beam.
Add teammates that can deal with "double genie", Life Orb Bisharp and Mega Salamence, because those can be problematic matchups.
Conkeldurr deals with "double genie" pretty well, threatens Bisharp and allows you to pivot into a lot of the attacks that would be aimed at Charizard-Y/Landorus-T. It does nothing to improve your Mega Salamence matchup though.
Bulky Electric-types and Watertanks with Ice-coverage help against Salamence.
Last edited:
did thanks
Great! Though something didn't work out, when you copied the EV spread explanation. You might want to look into that. I also meant to write "momentum" not "moment" in the first paragraph. Just fixed that... :P
Because the self-proclaimed sovereign of the sun hasn't tried Char-Y + Landog yet because he's just too immersed in his Pledge Core. :P
Cress was the first (ok, second) thing in mind when I read "add teammates to handle double genie and Mega Mence" so that might be a mention too; not like Char-Y and Cress on the same team is rare lol.
Edit: Pot of Greed, I approve.
- Status