I tend to favour balance, with bulky offensive options and instant power over lengthy set ups. I'm currently 38 I think on the NU ladder. My team is well prepared, I just find I get cheap losses as all it takes is a couple of fluke crits and the game is gone, it's impossible to counter them all with multiple mons, all the time, if you lose one of your checks due to BS it's really hard to stop a sweep. It's worse than it was, there used to be checks like Lanturn and Slowking that could completely shut down a lot of the threats, regardless of all but the worst luck.
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np: NU Stage 1 - Welcome to Heartbreak
- Thread starter tennisace
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Welcome to the world of Pokemon! There's really nothing you can do about crits, your best bet is to be extremely observant in teambuilding and try and have backup checks for all the major threats lest your main counter gets critted. One of the principal differences between a decent ladder player and a mediocre ladder player is that the former can put themselves in a position to win even when being haxed. Just try to be careful in both teambuilding and in the actual game. I don't really like balance in NU for some reason, maybe it's because I don't have a definition of it in my head yet, or that it's just too lacking to take on offense and full stall, which are extremely formidable right now.
uhhhh
not so sure about that tbh. no good spinners/spikers or anything. I've yet to see a successful stall team, anyhow.
I remember one person who had a really good stall team before the tier shifts that I could never get past, (he 6-0ed me if I remember correctly), after playing him again after the tier shifts, his stall team was totally different without Slowking or Scolipede, and I managed to defeat him. After the tier shifts, stall has definitely become less viable with only a few decent spikers and stallers left. Coupled with the new interest in hyper offense Pokemon such as Gorebyss, stall is having a much harder time establishing itself as a playable game style.
That being said, I've seen way more Garbordor recently and they are pretty good. They have decent all round stats and can hit pretty hard with Gunk Shot. Then again, Garbordor is basically the only viable dual spiker left (lol Pineco).
I'm feel similar, full stall seems dead in NU atm. Defensive works, my team is quite defensive, I have 4 walls and two scarfers and I'm sitting around 28 at the time of posting this, but all out stall is very difficult as the average quality of sweepers is higher than the average quality of walls.
RU is different and honestly I prefer it at the moment, offensive teams work really well, but so does stall, there are better walls, hazards, spinners etc. in RU. Sure there are bigger offensive threats but the difference is that the gap between the offensive and defensive Pokemon seems to be closer in RU, perhaps leaning more towards the defensive side. That's better for the metagame I think. NU is just so short of certain types of Pokemon, like Steel and Ghost, sure we have Missy and Haunter if you want a sweeper, but they are both NFEs and have nothing on Confagrius, Dusknoir or even Spiritomb. Our bulky water options are pretty slim as well compared to our RU cousins since we lost Slowking and Lanturn, the two best defensive waters in the tier. Quaggy is good, but he's one mon and most people have learned to exploit his 4x grass weak.
Stall's not doing very well in the current metagame... There's really nothing bulky enough to go up against a team of boosting sweepers like Gorebyss, especially if it's the type of team that runs screens.
Garbodor is nicer than I thought he'd be, I've underestimated its bulk a few times and ended up getting set up on pretty bad. Dual-Spikes can be used if you need immediate damage with Spikes or passive with T-Spikes, and having both up can lead to ridiculous amounts of damage (especially if you've got phazers). Toxic Spikes are actually a serious thing to deal with in a tier barren of good grounded poison types, especially if you don't have a spinner or a cleric. Tentacool is still sticking out to me as a semi-decent 'mon because it can both set and absorb t-spikes, as well as being able to spin. He doesn't have much offense, but I think his defenses are better than some of the other bulky spinners.
And Sabin...please don't advertise for RU down here. It's kinda pointless to post about their metagame when none of it is useful in this thread...I understand that some of your post had something to do with NU, but most of it just felt like you were saying "NU SUCKS RU HAS MUCH BETTER META RIGHT NOW."
I dunno, that's just what I'm getting from it.
EDIT: Oh, and fuck Lickilicky. I've been fighting sub variants of that thing all day and it's been trolling the hell out of me. He's just so bulky, it's ridiculous the special hits he can take. *puts Sawk back on team*
Lickilicky is pretty damn aggravating, I think it's over-rated though, Miltank is better physically and in most cases, I'd personally rather Audino as a special wall. I <3 troll bunny.
....
what exactly does audino have over lickilicky?
lickilicky is bulkier, has bigger wishes, also learns heal bell, AND has better offensive stats to work with, sure it has regenerator but the fact that i has absolutely NO offensive presence makes it hard for it to be not overshadowed.
so you run a moveset of wish/protect/heal bell/encore?
how do you actually damage things, there is no room on a full cleric set for audino to run encore imo
Lickilicky's Physical bulk is satisfactory and since it's being used as a Special Wall and has better Special Bulk than Miltank, it's obviosuly superior. I often find myself using Lickilicky over Audino due to the fact that it has the ability to deal more damage with Return or Seismic Toss and has better stats overall.
Lickilicky is superior to Audino in most cases. Regenerator does not make up for Audino being 2HKO'd by more attacks than Lickilicky does. Audino is complete Taunt bait, while Lickilicky can at least get rid of something like Misdreavus using Dragon Tail, that has utility in getting rid of set-up boosters, or use Body Slam to better effect since its offensive stats are not a complete joke like Audino's.
A better question is: What's NOT to like about CurseTank? The only common things that beat it are ShellSmashers and Sawk after it gets a Curse up. The Smashers, bar Carracosta, aren't even that reliable checks to it. When they Smash, they're taking a +1 or +2 Body Slam to the face, and even uninvested that's gonna take out a ton (and if they get paralysed, the fun has just been doubled).
Also, being able to laugh at anything trying to Toxic you with Heal Bell and having awesome recovery with Milk Drink are just more and more reasons to use the fat cow.
... I think I'll try to find a place for CurseTank now on my team.
Has anyone thought of running Sap Sipper Miltank in conjunction with Quagsire on a team? It seems like they'd help each other out pretty nicely as Miltank boosts her stats when hit by Quag's only weakness and can cure status like Burn and Toxic from him as well. Meanwhile, Quag can come in on anything stupid enough to try to set up in Miltank's face and just lol at it while their boosts amount to nothing... Just a thought.
this sounds like a good idea except for the fact that mono attacker miltank loses its ability to hit misdreavus and haunter, any other partners for miltank?
LOL, that's the point, the Pokemon that are good are supposed to leave =)
Does anyone think Gorebyss is actually not broken? It doesn't have many counters but there are enough checks for it, and its low initial speed also helps you prevent it setting up, or smacking it hard before it does. I'm undecided at this point whether it's truly broken or not.
There are a lot of Pokemon that would make decent partners to Miltank. Choice Scarf Rotom-S is a good one. I'll just list a few that I think would semi-work:
Amoonguss: Defensive 'mon with Spore, weak to Fire and Ice but resists Fighting like a champ. Good partner for Thick Fat cows.
Golbat: Defensive 'mon with a variety of support mvoes, 4x Resists Fighting moves aimed at Miltank, weak to Ice moves that cow can sponge with Thick Fat.
Bug/Poison and Bug/Flying types in general, although most of them suck.
Drifblim: Decent bulk, nullifies Fighting moves, likes cleric support.
Garbodor: Sets up Spikes, Toxic Spikes, has decent bulk, resists Fighting moves.
Bulky Psychic types: Fighting resist, usually have many good support moves, draw in ghosts that Scrappy-Tank can waste (I guess). We're talking things like Musharna, Defensive Mesprit, Eviolite Duosion, etc.
Ninjask: Ever seen a Miltank with +3 Spe and +4 Atk? You don't want to. But really that just goes for any bulky 'mon that Ninjask could pass to in the first place.
Rotom-S: Choice Scarfed variants are some of the best Pokemon in the current metagame, and generally work well with any team. Rotom-S has the nifty ability to come in on any Fighting attack aimed at Miltank and lay waste to whatever poor fighting 'mon decides to stay in on it. It also appreciates cleric support, can trick away its scarf to cripple things that might try to use Miltank as set-up fodder, etc. Really it's more that Rotom-S is a good Pokemon than it's specifically good for Miltank, but whatever.
There's probably more, and I'm probably wrong about a few of these, but those are the ones I think of. Anything look good out of that?
EDIT: merlinnerd922, tell that to Gorebyss, Swellow, Sawk, Braviary, Jynx, Rotom-S, etc etc etc. I fucking miss Magneton and Lanturn >:(
No Luck Involved: Gorebyss isn't broken, it's just the best set-up Pokemon in the tier. I think a decent amount of people complaining about it at this point just don't run good enough counters/checks to it. It CAN be played around, it CAN be defeated. It's just a pain in the ass to stop once it's smashed.
DOUBLE EDIT: Just realized how repetitive this post was with all the fighting resists I mentioned, sorry about that.
HEY GUIZ, DID U KNOW THAT POGEYMANZ DAT RESIST FIGHTING CAN HELP NORMAL TYPES???
Amoonguss: Defensive 'mon with Spore, weak to Fire and Ice but resists Fighting like a champ. Good partner for Thick Fat cows.
Golbat: Defensive 'mon with a variety of support mvoes, 4x Resists Fighting moves aimed at Miltank, weak to Ice moves that cow can sponge with Thick Fat.
Bug/Poison and Bug/Flying types in general, although most of them suck.
Drifblim: Decent bulk, nullifies Fighting moves, likes cleric support.
Garbodor: Sets up Spikes, Toxic Spikes, has decent bulk, resists Fighting moves.
Bulky Psychic types: Fighting resist, usually have many good support moves, draw in ghosts that Scrappy-Tank can waste (I guess). We're talking things like Musharna, Defensive Mesprit, Eviolite Duosion, etc.
Ninjask: Ever seen a Miltank with +3 Spe and +4 Atk? You don't want to. But really that just goes for any bulky 'mon that Ninjask could pass to in the first place.
Rotom-S: Choice Scarfed variants are some of the best Pokemon in the current metagame, and generally work well with any team. Rotom-S has the nifty ability to come in on any Fighting attack aimed at Miltank and lay waste to whatever poor fighting 'mon decides to stay in on it. It also appreciates cleric support, can trick away its scarf to cripple things that might try to use Miltank as set-up fodder, etc. Really it's more that Rotom-S is a good Pokemon than it's specifically good for Miltank, but whatever.
There's probably more, and I'm probably wrong about a few of these, but those are the ones I think of. Anything look good out of that?
EDIT: merlinnerd922, tell that to Gorebyss, Swellow, Sawk, Braviary, Jynx, Rotom-S, etc etc etc. I fucking miss Magneton and Lanturn >:(
No Luck Involved: Gorebyss isn't broken, it's just the best set-up Pokemon in the tier. I think a decent amount of people complaining about it at this point just don't run good enough counters/checks to it. It CAN be played around, it CAN be defeated. It's just a pain in the ass to stop once it's smashed.
DOUBLE EDIT: Just realized how repetitive this post was with all the fighting resists I mentioned, sorry about that.
HEY GUIZ, DID U KNOW THAT POGEYMANZ DAT RESIST FIGHTING CAN HELP NORMAL TYPES???
Here are my thoughts on Gorebyss:
With all of the hype that was placed on it, I have been extremely disappointed. We were all waiting with torches and pitchforks, ready to quick ban. Then, people started realizing that while good, Gorebyss wasn't able to absolutely dominate through its numerous checks. Of course, like any dangerous sweeper, if you don't have checks, or your opponent plays well and eliminates your checks to it, it will sweep you. The same can be said of Rock Polish Torterra, or any other Shell Smasher, or Swellow. Gorebyss is the best Shell Smasher by far, and I don't personally like how the metagame has shaped around it. However, thinking Gorebyss is a bad influence on the metagame and Gorebyss being broken are two entirely different things, and at this moment, I do not believe Gorebyss is broken.
You do know Audino has heal bell right? Lickilicky is bulkier, by a very slight margin, 7/9/9 to be exact which is completely over-shadowed by Regenerator, one of the best abilities you can have as a wall. The difference in bulk isn't enough to let Audino get 2hko'd in a scenario which wouldn't regularly 2hko Lickilicky, barring exceptional circumstances with min/max. On top of Encore Lickilicky also doesn't have access to screens either, screens do a lot for somethings resilience.
Audino has no offensive presence, but that doesn't hold it back from being phenomenal. Keep ignoring Audino, please, it makes the meta much easier to ladder in, I'm currently sitting top 20 with it.
Miltank has access to instant recovery unlike Lickilicky, in combination with thick fat giving resistances it becomes perfectly adequate as a special wall that can in turn take physical hits alright. Lickilicky works but the fact Miltank is double the speed is also very useful, especially with the para chance of body slam. I'd much rather Miltank over Lickilicky as a physical wall.
Also, Curse Miltank is incredible, there is nothing wrong with taking a mono-attacking normal type when you can cure yourself of status moves, have instant recovery and scrappy to let you hit Ghosts. It's one of the most underused sets in the tier.
that was exactly my point, lickilicky gets heal bell as well, giving me yet another reason to say audino is overshadowed.
also, you cant run screens and cleric your team at the same time, you would be total taunt bait, and things such as gorebyss could not set up one, but two or three shell smashes on you screens wouldnt matter if two smashes were set up
also. "Keep ignoring Audino, please, it makes the meta much easier to ladder in, I'm currently sitting top 20 with it."
i got into the top ten with a SD mawile last round, does that mean that it wasnt overshadowed by klinklang?
Obviously Mawile had some kind of niche that made it effective, perhaps that's not a terrible comparison. I'd rather take Audino over Lickilicky as Regenerator is fantastic and it has other useful tools, Lickilicky isn't terrible, but he's hardly an offensive monster either which seems to be a lot of peoples main argument for why he is better.
All walls are taunt bait, at least a set up sweeper like Gorebyss has to fear the potential Thunder Wave or Yawn from Audino.
no, mawile is frail, despite it hitting hard after setup (enough to 2hko tangela after rocks O_O) it was amazing after setting up , but overall overshadowed by klinklang, who was also amazing
the difference between lickilicky's offenses and audino's is huge 25 point difference, not to mention it can attack and threaten paralysis at the same time
if you are running screens, wish, and heal bell, where are you going to fit t-wave and yawn, besides, yawn is a terrible move and thereare so many other options. if you give up screens, thats one thing audino has over it gone, pretty much the only one. its not like audino can run 8 moves
edit: heres the calc for mawile, its slightly off cause my calculator cant put in sheer force, and reckless is only a 1.2X boost, not 1.3X
(40.42% - 47.60%)
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